Er....someone...anyone ?

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Er....someone...anyone ?

Betty Rocket Betty Rocket
Anyone else had a descriptive review DECLINED.

Mine was, I am guessing because my review indicated that the product was not a good one.

I emailed them directly and asked for an explanation and have yet to receive one (this was on 1/27/09) and have not since been offered another product to review. This is the reason for the public post. I tried to be discreet, but no one has come forward to say anything to me.

Er....not so cool........I would like to know what is up.....so PLEASE someone email me....
02/04/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
I can't be of much help since I"m not in that program but you might want to try emailing again? I know I sometimes lose track of emails I've sent and received and replied to and not and...

It gets overwhelming. More so for some of the folks trying to keep things running around here. It may just be an oversight.

I'd send another email and see what happens.
02/04/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
Declined? Is that different from revision required?
02/04/2009
Peg Peg
I had one that required a revision; I was informed by email and an explanation was included in my account under the review I had written. I know it was about four days before I had received a reply once I made the corrections, I imagine she might be a little busy with all of the reviews that get reviewed before being listed on the site.
02/04/2009
Victoria Victoria
To make this clear since it is now in the forum, I did send Betty a private email and I will not discuss the reasons for the review being Declined here, as that is her business.

Sometimes email does indeed slip through the cracks. In my case, one of the accounts I am responsible for, the Partner account, has been flooded with hundreds of bounced back emails from the last few email blasts and newsletters. I have to manually move all of those emails to a folder and pretty much dig through for what is not spam or delivery failure notices. I do receive dozens of requests and feedback emails daily and try to answer all of the email quickly. I usually only respond to email during the business week, Monday - Friday, as we generally do not work weekends.

To answer questions about reviews being requested for revision or declined: we have different guidelines and expectations for the Description Review Program. All reviews must be objective in their content and rating. When a review is very subjective or not sufficiently informative, it is sent back to the reviewer. If a reviewer does not use the toy or will not rate the toy because they disliked it so much, we will reassign the toy to another Description Reviewer.
02/04/2009
Betty Rocket Betty Rocket
This issue's existence in the forum is simply one of necessity, I was unable to get a response any other way. I will say that I received a rather quick response after making the original post.

The review was declined because the toy and I were not compatible. I rated it as honestly as I could, and was quite "descriptive" regarding the features and experience with the toy itself.

Anyone who would like to read my submitted review, email me.

However, I would like it known that my review met the guidelines for the description review program, however it was not what they were looking for....they wanted one that sang praise for it. I can't write that.

The one subject that I think is owed attention is why I have not been asked to participate in any other description reviews since submitting my negative review? Are we to think our longevity is only determined by whether or not we fudge reviews on the toys we hate, just to stay in the good graces? I have an extraordinarily bad taste in my mouth right now about this....especially after a few emails from other reviewers with similar concerns.
02/04/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
This is one of the reasons I commented, awhile back, about the reviews/descriptions I'd been reading.

In my opinion - and my opinion only - when doing our regular reviews, honesty is the most important thing. With the description reviews, I think objectivity is. Objectivity and the ability to describe things in a diplomatic way; the ability to turn "cheap, flimsy remote" into "not a luxury remote but it gets the job done and, at this price, it won't hurt the pocketbook to replace it when it gives out".

I could be totally off base. The management may be looking for something completely different than how *I* think the description reviews should be done. But when it comes down to it, EF is a business that is trying to sell toys. Negative and subjective reviews aren't going to do that.

And I've been seeing a LOT of negative reviews lately.
02/04/2009
LikeSunshineDust LikeSunshineDust
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
This is one of the reasons I commented, awhile back, about the reviews/descriptions I'd been reading.

In my opinion - and my opinion only - when doing our regular reviews, honesty is the most important thing. With the description reviews, I ... More
I think you're right. The description program is for objectivity, a description of the product, not a description of what one thinks of it. Opinions are for the regular review.
02/04/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
This is one of the reasons I commented, awhile back, about the reviews/descriptions I'd been reading.

In my opinion - and my opinion only - when doing our regular reviews, honesty is the most important thing. With the description reviews, I ... More
All of us in the descriptions program know that we're supposed to be objective. We understand those reviews are different. The problem is, how does one become objective about what is, essentially, a personal and physical experience? if I try a toy that physically feels uncomfortable to me, do I leave that out of the review for the sake of being objective? or do I put it in because readers deserve to know? At what point does it become subjective, and does that mean that idea needs to be completely taken out of the review?

Objectivity is good in theory, but it's really difficult in practice.
02/04/2009
Cinnamon Chambers Cinnamon Chambers
I agree with Carrie Ann totally. For a descriptive review I would think they want a description, not an opinion. I got a product that in my opinion was terrible. I wrote a terrible review for it. If I was writing a descriptive review it would have been the color is pink, etc, etc, not I hate this crap and it is a waste of money.

Hope it all gets worked out for you soon.
02/04/2009
Miss KissThis Miss KissThis
This is somewhat off-subject, but not completely.

I would love to see the Description Reviews labeled differently on the actual product page. When a product has more than one review, it's not exactly clear that one is the Description Review, and not just a regular Verified Review.

If it said "Description Review" instead of "Verified Review" then readers could expect a more objective perspective, and take that into consideration.
02/04/2009
Victoria Victoria
Just to reiterate the process, as I am pretty sure I wrote this out before in another thread...Rufina assigns and sends the products for Description Review. I have no knowledge of who is assigned or what is assigned. Lately, with the Description Review getting much more attention via the published guidelines, we have had a huge influx of applicants. So not receiving a new toy for Description Review is merely a case of supply and demand. We now have more people to send the products to. I am not aware of these reviews until they are submitted, as I handle the backend of this program.

We don’t doctor the reviews and I would like to see a few examples if anyone thinks this is the case. Please email me them and I will discuss it with my boss. We do ask for objectivity but never for anyone to lie about products. We even stipulate in the guidelines that a poor rating or a mismatch in assignment may result in the toy being reassigned. Often, the decision to actually carry a toy is made from the response we get from our Description Reviewer. We recently chose not to carry several toys that were just not good overall. We take the feedback very seriously - as it is the first "test drive" of the toy for us and often a determining factor.

This program has guidelines that are very clear. It is indeed difficult to be objective when you don't like the product, to review it solely on function and quality. Many people have learned this and expressed this sentiment to me. It's not about sales though, it's about making sure that the person with tastes very different from your own still has an accurate idea of what the product could be like for them. What may not work for you may be perfect for someone else - it would be a shame if that person never knew about their perfect toy because it was poorly represented.

I hope giving you clear and concise answers helps this makes sense to all of you. If you have any questions or examples you'd like to discuss, please email me at: victoria@edenfantasys. com
02/04/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Epiphora
All of us in the descriptions program know that we're supposed to be objective. We understand those reviews are different. The problem is, how does one become objective about what is, essentially, a personal and physical experience? if I try a toy ... More
I dunno. I've been in sales or customer service based jobs - including health care - most of my life. Even health care requires a great deal of diplomacy, objectivity and the ability to "sell" things no matter how you feel personally.

I'm not trying to be a rag. I just don't honestly see that it's that difficult.

I *do* see that the program is still going thru growing pains and that's to be expected - as we've all agreed in the past.
02/04/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
I dunno. I've been in sales or customer service based jobs - including health care - most of my life. Even health care requires a great deal of diplomacy, objectivity and the ability to "sell" things no matter how you feel personally.

I'm ... More
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree then. I don't think description reviews should be "selling" things. I would challenge you to try to write a review of a toy you don't like and keep it completely objective. I personally do not feel uncomfortable doing so. These are called "reviews," after all, even if they are "description reviews."

Here's the issue. Even if someone IS completely objective, what if they then give the toy 2 stars or 1 star? Inevitably, people will comment saying "so why 2 stars?" and the reviewer will have to explain.
02/04/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Epiphora
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree then. I don't think description reviews should be "selling" things. I would challenge you to try to write a review of a toy you don't like and keep it completely objective. I personally do not feel ... More
That's pretty much why I qualified what I said earlier with the "this is my opinion and how *I* would do things if I were running them" speech.

I realize EF is doing the program differently than how *I* think it should be done and that's why I haven't even considered requesting to be a part of it. And I'm sure the fact that I'd do things differently is why no one's come knocking on my door, begging me to help out. Lol.

As for the rating question...

I still don't think it's that difficult. Things simply ARE lower quality or more poorly made or less functional than other things. People expect that.

For example - Oggins wrote a description review of the Durex Play Ellipse recently.

She gave it two stars. She was quite honest about the product without ever going into personal judgments that sounded overly negative. The negatives were more about the product itself than about physical sensations or personal experience. In my opinion, that's exactly what a description review should be.

She gave it two stars and detailed the negatives quite clearly and I STILL want to try it. I'm in awe of her skills.

Regardless...

Initially I was addressing Betty Rocket's thoughts about fudging on reviews with my own thoughts about objectivity and negativity as they apply to this program. Just my thoughts.

Miss Victoria has pretty much cleared things up for those of you in the program who were questioning so my thoughts are just excess fluff, floating around in cyberspace cuz I was bored and tossed them out there.
02/04/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
That's pretty much why I qualified what I said earlier with the "this is my opinion and how *I* would do things if I were running them" speech.I realize EF is doing the program differently than how *I* think it should be done and that's why I haven't ... More
And I qualified what I said with "we're going to have to agree to disagree." You make it sound like I'm getting on you for your opinion when I'm not.
02/04/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Epiphora
And I qualified what I said with "we're going to have to agree to disagree." You make it sound like I'm getting on you for your opinion when I'm not.
Nah. I was just rambling about the issue you brought up and making sure I didn't get taken in the wrong way. (It happens to me a lot.) I didn't want anyone to leave this thread feeling criticized over me tossing out thoughts.
02/04/2009
Backseat Boohoo Backseat Boohoo
I try to be as objective as possible with descriptions reviews, even if a toy doesn't suit me. The G-Spot Yoko Yoko is a great example: that toy was not compatible with me, but I could see it being compatible with others, so I gave it 4 stars.

Some toys, however, are just bad, no matter how objective you try to be about it. If I honestly think a toy's bad features outweight its good, and that it really won't do much for the vast majority of EF's shoppers, I'll rate it low in its review.

Actually, I try to rate that way not only in my descriptions reviews, but in my general reviews as well. Just because a toy didn't suit me doesn't necessarily mean it won't suit others, and visa versa.
02/04/2009
Betty Rocket Betty Rocket
I am COMPLETELY objective in my reviews. As Epiphora said, personal experiences make objectivity difficult. That being said, I will urge anyone interested in reading my declined review to email me and I will gladly share it. You will see that the review was not declined because of non-compliance with the guidelines, it was declined simply because I described the toy in a less that positive light.

My job (can you call it such) here is NOT to sell a product. That is the job of the persons who receive monetary compensation for their presence here. I am here because I take a personal stake in my playtime and wish to inform the general public about the knowledge I possess. I will not state something in a review that I do not feel is true. I will call a spade a spade. If I am ostracized by the powers that be for it, then whoop de doo.

I am not the only reviewer this has happened to, simply because the description was not "retail worthy"

My BIGGEST concern (see OP) was why the review was declined (i got my answer almost immediately after starting this thread)

I concur with Carrie Ann when she says that no company wants to publish a negative perspective as a description of a product they wish to sell. I wholeheartedly agree. However, the "declining" of my review was neither explained, elaborated on, or even addressed after I asked for an explanation. I find that to be immensely disrespectful. A little suspicious as well.

I am truly concerned about whether or not a lot of the reviews are subject to editorial intervention that includes persuasion to up ratings or remove text that could be considered negative. That is something I do not subscribe to, and will not tolerate, not with my work.

I do not wish to put anyone on "blast" but I am more than willing to share the two emails I received tonight regarding this thread and the review in question and you can formulate your own opinion.
02/05/2009
Sleeping Dreamer Sleeping Dreamer
Quote:
Originally posted by Backseat Boohoo
I try to be as objective as possible with descriptions reviews, even if a toy doesn't suit me. The G-Spot Yoko Yoko is a great example: that toy was not compatible with me, but I could see it being compatible with others, so I gave it 4 ... More
The Masturazor is the epitome of a bad toy.

Personally, it took one review being sent back for revision that made me think, "I gotta be more objective, I'm being way too personal"... I think my description reviews from then on out have been a lot better. I don't use "I" or "me" or "my" as much or if at all, maybe in the experience section- I'm going to have to check them out and see.
02/05/2009
Dragon Dragon
Umm. Wow. What did I miss this time?

OK, Betty, I want to see the review and any emails you want to share with me. You already have my email.

I'm also going to take Ephidora up on her challenge. I received a toy and I sort of went "Huh? Not my style." (A email about what it was went completely unanswered so, it's also been ignored.) Nothing like a personal mismatch to show that objective reviews can be written. (It will also be a personal challenge for me...)
02/06/2009
Dragon Dragon
On second thought. Betty, if you have a real issue with the review actually being objective and want second opinions- then post the review text on the forum.
02/06/2009
Backseat Boohoo Backseat Boohoo
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
Umm. Wow. What did I miss this time?

OK, Betty, I want to see the review and any emails you want to share with me. You already have my email.

I'm also going to take Ephidora up on her challenge. I received a toy and I sort of went ... More
I don't mean to be a snot, but you always write her name as "Ephidora," and her handle is actually "Epiphora." It's a term you hear a lot in English language courses.
02/06/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
Epiphora's point is that when you are writing about a totally subjective experience (like a sex toy), it can sometimes be difficult to be objective. She did not say it was impossible, she did not issue a challenge. She merely noted that sometimes it's hard. And there's nothing remotely unreasonable or controversial about that point. (And, it should be noted, objectivity = / = "selling".) One of the challenges of description reviews would seem to be the objectivity, as illustrated by the fact that we keep talking about it.

Anyway, I think Miss KissThis' idea about having description reviews somehow marked differently than regular reviews is a pretty good idea, since it's basically replacing the product description tab anyway.
02/06/2009
Miss Cinnamon Miss Cinnamon
Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainBunnyKilla
Epiphora's point is that when you are writing about a totally subjective experience (like a sex toy), it can sometimes be difficult to be objective. She did not say it was impossible, she did not issue a challenge. She merely noted that sometimes ... More
I third Miss Kiss This's idea (don't get on me about apostrophes--it's late!). Maybe the whole concept of a description "review" is throwing us off.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. After all, a description review is just an extension of the description summary itself, right? The whole point of description reviews is to replace the cheesy, fluffy blurbs that used to accompany the products on EF.

The purpose of Basic and Advanced reviews are to actually provide personal experiences and how different people matched up with a product. Description reviews are useful because of their objectivity, while "normal" reviews are valuable because they provide first-hand experience. Not to say that normal reviews can't also talk about the toy itself, but they can afford to be much more subjective than description reviews.

If you really think about it, the description reviews that Victoria has written as a "gold standard" for our reference are not really reviews at all. They are very objective, graceful descriptions of the product, but that is all they are--descriptions. If that is what is expected of description reviews, then "review" should be chopped out of the name altogether. Maybe the full description text should even be given its own tab separate from the reviews tab. Maybe a pop-up window or shadowbox when you click on "read more" for the description summary?

I think the problem may be that when we think "review", we naturally associate that with personal experiences, what we thought of a product, etc. Taking the "review" out of the descriptions program may be helpful to all concerned parties.
02/06/2009
Red Red
Quote:
Originally posted by Backseat Boohoo
I try to be as objective as possible with descriptions reviews, even if a toy doesn't suit me. The G-Spot Yoko Yoko is a great example: that toy was not compatible with me, but I could see it being compatible with others, so I gave it 4 ... More
I love the names of some of these toys. G-spot yoko yoko? What on earth does that even mean? Yoko-yoke my g-spot? huh? LOL
02/06/2009
Red Red
Quote:
Originally posted by Betty Rocket
Anyone else had a descriptive review DECLINED.

Mine was, I am guessing because my review indicated that the product was not a good one.

I emailed them directly and asked for an explanation and have yet to receive one (this was on ... More
I had one declined, too personal and full of I statements. Easy to fix and a good reminder of the different aims of different reviews. Maybe 10 mins of editing later, all my I statements were gone and replaced by general descriptors and it was accepted.

I am also a description review writer and I've had a silent week since posting my last descriptions review. I wouldn't worry about it too much!
02/06/2009
Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Cinnamon
I third Miss Kiss This's idea (don't get on me about apostrophes--it's late!). Maybe the whole concept of a description "review" is throwing us off.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. After all, a description review is just an ... More
I think this is a great post.
02/06/2009
Ariane Ariane
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss Cinnamon
I third Miss Kiss This's idea (don't get on me about apostrophes--it's late!). Maybe the whole concept of a description "review" is throwing us off.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. After all, a description review is just an ... More
I agree with most of this, with a single caveat.

If a sex toy is truly so bad as to be irredeemable, then the reviewer has an obligation to state such, if only so that Rufina, Victoria et al can look at the description/review and say "Hmm, maybe we shouldn't be selling something that breaks on first use" or "Maybe we should have a second person look at this toy to see if the one we sent Ariane was a lemon", etc.

I say obligation because after all, we're reviewers. We review so that EdenFantasys customers have a better idea of which vibrator or cock ring or flogger might be right for them. We say "this is great for G-Spot fun" or "This vibrator smells like cat food" to gently guide customers' choices. However, I also think that, especially in the case of the description program, we review so the people who run EdenFantasys have a better idea of what sex toys might need to be culled or never even sold, to ensure Eden's continued state as a reputable (and yes, profitable) sex toy shop.

I'll get off my soap box now and return you to your regularly scheduled forum!
02/06/2009
Betty Rocket Betty Rocket
Quote:
Originally posted by Red
I had one declined, too personal and full of I statements. Easy to fix and a good reminder of the different aims of different reviews. Maybe 10 mins of editing later, all my I statements were gone and replaced by general descriptors and it was ... More
My secondary issue (the original issue being the lack of communication) is that I was NOT given the opportunity to correct the review, nor was I told what in the review did not jive with their tastes. Not too cool.
02/06/2009
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