#SexIsSubjective - Parental Rights and Abortion: Who Has the Definitive Say?

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#SexIsSubjective - Parental Rights and Abortion: Who Has the Definitive Say?

Ansley Ansley


Parental Rights and Abortion: Who Has the Definitive Say?

We've been inundated with story after story on how the legislators of this country want to change the laws to prevent women from accessing safe and legal means of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy. However, there was very little chatter about the father's rights. There hardly ever is.

We're highlighting three articles from SexIs this week about this very subject, do men have a say when it comes to abortion? Below are three excerpts from ArcaneBlast, Experiment, and Toy Fiend expressing their views on the subject.




SexIs Subjective: Gentleman's Choice? by Toy Fiend

If I was a father who did not want to abort his unborn child, I would feel like my rights were being infringed upon. I would be upset that the government did not care about my paternal rights to my own child.

As an American, I am ashamed at the way our government handles this situation. Everyone is entitled to have equal rights, including the fathers of unborn children.




SexIs Subjective: Pro-Choice, but Whose Choice? by ArcaneBlast

If he wants to keep it:
Does he consider if both parties can raise a child in terms of finances and responsibility? Is he willing to make the commitment to take care of the child, too? Basically, does he just want to have a child and leave it with you, or is he willing to take the time out of his life and take up the responsibility of caring for the child instead of being an absent father? Mainly, is he willing to support you the whole way through, including hormone induced irritation?

If he wants to get rid of it:
Why does he not want a child?

If the responses to these questions are reasonable, and show he's considering the child and you, then he should get a choice. Otherwise, it's your choice exclusively since it is your body.




A Father's Rights Don't Trump A Mother's by Experiment

What if a woman becomes pregnant, and the father wants the woman to get an abortion, however she chooses not to? Should he be forced to pay child support for 18 years even though he didn’t want to keep it in the first place?

To that I present a difficult answer: a man relinquishes control at conception. While it seems unfair due to the lack of birth control options for men (they really only have condoms which aren’t very effective), I personally can’t suspend the rights of a woman to choose what happens to her body.




What say you, Edenites? Do you think men should have a say in whether or not a woman gets an abortion?

What if it's a situation with a married couple? Should the husband have a right to prevent his wife from aborting the child if he really wants to raise it and care for it?

Let's consider the reverse of that, what if a woman wants the baby and her husband or boyfriend wants her to have an abortion? Is there any scenario where you can see his wants trumping her's?


To see more articles answering the question "what about the rights of the father", head over to SexIs Subjective.
01/10/2013
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Bleu Bleu
A wonderful topic.

I do think a father has a say but I feel like it's putting HUGE pressure on the woman to keep the baby and be a mother. For men, they don't have to go through the 9 months, sickness, appointments, and labor so they are mostly driven on the fact that they want a baby. For women, it's MANY things. Not being ready for a child, it was an "accident," they don't care enough for the man they slept with to go through with the pregnancy, family, religion, morals (children before marriage, etc), and many other things. In a relationship where it might have been a hook up, a not-so-serious relationship, one night stand, or anything like that...the man's say is really just him voicing an opinion that might go in one ear and out the other. Personally, I wouldn't listen to them too much. It's my choice. They don't have to go through the physical and emotional side of it and, for all they care, the baby just pops out of my vag and all the rest is history.

Married couples is tricky. It really depends on the number of kids or if this is their first. My friend just convinced his wife that they should keep their child and, after some time, she has never been happier. He says that she is most likely the happiest woman he has ever seen to be pregnant. She can't wait till she gets bigger so she can paint her belly and feel the baby moving and kicking. They don't have much money, and that was the problem, but he has gotten a second job and they are going to work through it. He said the sex is pretty awesome since they don't have to worry about fiddling with condoms anymore (the baby was an accident, condom broke and they don't want to use plan B or birth control pills).

But in the case of they have "enough" kids (let's just throw out the number 6 as enough) and the husband is all like "Come on, more!" It's really terrible to try to convince someone like that if she clearly doesn't want anymore kids. But if she goes through and has the kid, it can create problems but if she goes through with the abortion, the husband can feel a little resentment towards her and it could lead to more problems.

I have seen the case all too many times to where the boyfriend/husband doesn't want a kid but the woman does and that's just wrong. For the man to have to go through with paying child support for so many years is horrible. I do think there needs to be a better system in place for child support. My mother has a friend who has been screwed over by child support repeatedly and it's really a lose-lose for those who have to pay it. Randomly, even after 18 years, someone can decide you still owe $10k and they will get every penny out of you from your bank accounts and savings accounts (seen it happen). There are almost no father's rights when it comes to child support. Whether guys sign the birth certificate or not, it can be hell for them if the woman help the child but they clearly didn't want it. Now, a guy who signs the birth certificate should be held responsible because at some point in time they did want the baby but if they didn't sign it, men shouldn't have to go through with debt/not being able to make enough to live on/jail time because they spread their seed yet she decided she wanted to keep it to spite him showing no interest in being the baby's father.

If the woman is extremely religious/finds it WAY against her morals for an abortion, a guy should respect that even after his opinion is voiced and she has listened but again, if she shows no interest in being the baby's father/not continuing the relationship, he shouldn't be held liable for child support.

All in all, I do think men should have a say but they shouldn't expect more in the realms of her listening (there are only so many eggs we get) but I do think laws should be reflected that shows whether or not the man initially intended to be a father to the baby or not rather than a DNA test then 18 years of having checks cut short or not being able to pay at all because the men had no intention of getting a regular paying job. There are too many men in jail because of a woman's choice and I feel like that's not right.

I do think a woman has a right to choose, but there should be consequences to her choice that don't make a guy barred to that baby for life if she herself made that choice to keep it.

I agree with Experiment, until there are ways to control sperm and the act of sperm reaching the egg more than condoms (men can't completely trust a woman if she says she is on the pill and all of the best chemical methods are for woman) or going through with surgery to get his testicles removed, it can't be completely left up to her. But you can't simply take away a woman's rights completely and stop her. So more family laws need to be put in place to protect men from the consequences of her choice.
01/10/2013
MrWill MrWill
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley


Parental Rights and Abortion: Who Has the Definitive Say?

We've been inundated with story after story on how the legislators of this country want to change the laws to prevent women from accessing safe and legal means of dealing ...
Very complicated, but I don't necessarily think abortion is right in MOST cases at all. Sleep in the bed you made.



That being said, if a woman wants to abort a pregnancy, that is her right.. though I do believe if the father wishes for the pregnancy to go full term it should be considered. If the decision is made for the pregnancy to not be aborted when the father wants the baby but the mother doesn't, the father should pay all medical costs associated with pregnancy.



If a woman wants to keep the baby but the father does not, I think it should be as simple as sign the rights away then 100% legally and the father is "absolved" so to speak of his responsibility for the pregnancy/child.

I think the occurrences of women getting pregnant to "trap" a man would drastically decline if the man could walk away at any point and not have to worry about child support.


It's a tough subject, like I said. Not everyone will agree, but this is my opinion.


Different strokes for different folks.
01/10/2013
deltalima deltalima
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley


Parental Rights and Abortion: Who Has the Definitive Say?

We've been inundated with story after story on how the legislators of this country want to change the laws to prevent women from accessing safe and legal means of dealing ...
I think both parties should discuss it but at the end of the day the woman has to bear the child.
01/10/2013
Mwar Mwar
Quote:
Originally posted by deltalima
I think both parties should discuss it but at the end of the day the woman has to bear the child.
I agree with this.
01/10/2013
VioletMoonstone VioletMoonstone
In my honest opinion, a man can't possibly understand what it feels like to be pregnant or give birth. A woman can't just "walk away" from the situation the way a man could (he has to pay child support, big whoop.) The woman is the one who has to carry the pregnancy for 9 months and deal with the physical changes and intense emotions for all that time... and that's a hell of a lot! She has to go through labor and pain. Think about all the emotions, fear, health risks, and pain the woman has to go through. Women go through SO much. Plus there's a lot of shit to deal with after the baby is born like breastfeeding, physical pain and changes, hormone crazy emotions, body image issues, ect ect... All the guy really has to do is sit back and enjoy the show. Actually, he doesn't even have to show up for the birth if he chose not to. Yes, that sounds harsh but that's how I see it. His job was over 9 months ago when they had sex. The woman's job is far from over. The woman is ultimately the one that has to carry the burden if the man chooses to leave. I find that equal rights between the man and the woman is FAR from equal.

Obviously it's important for the couple to discuss their options together. Hopefully they agree on the same choice. In circumstances where they don't agree it's still the woman's choice because it's her body on the line.
01/11/2013
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by VioletMoonstone
In my honest opinion, a man can't possibly understand what it feels like to be pregnant or give birth. A woman can't just "walk away" from the situation the way a man could (he has to pay child support, big whoop.) The woman is ...
See this is how I feel about the whole thing, too. I don't think a father has any say in the matter until the child is born. It's probably really sexist of me to feel this way, but growing up most of peers were without a positive male influence in their lives. It's caused me a lot of grief, growing up without my dad. According to my mother, shit would have been even worse if he had stayed around.

I don't think there is any other way to slice that cake, honestly. It's her body, it's her responsibility. Moms don't get to just drop baby off at a doorstep without some serious emotional repercussions and sometimes legal (depending on how it's done). It's expected that at any time a man can run off and abandon the family.

But did you know that in the beginning of America's history, when a couple would divorce the man was automatically given sole custody of the children and the mother was forced to establish herself elsewhere?
01/11/2013
Incendiaire Incendiaire
As horrible as it must be for a man to know that a woman is going to abort the child he wants, possibly even out of malice, I don't think I could ever condone a court forcing a woman to carry a child to term. I believe too much in the importance of individual liberty to mandate what someone does with their own body, and deprive them of that control.

On the flip side, if a man didn't want the baby and the woman did, then forcing her to get an abortion would be too emotionally traumatic to ever justify it. Unfortunately that does mean he'd be stuck paying child support for a child he never wanted, but the reason we have child support laws is so single mothers don't became a burden on the state when they can't support themselves. If you helped make the baby then I'm afraid it's going to be your responsibility as a man to pay for it, and not the tax payer. There might be an argument for means testing the child support though. If the man didn't want the child and signed away his rights before it was born, and the woman was financially independent enough to take care of herself and the child, and never require state support, then it seems only fair to excuse the man from making contributions.

Really it just makes me glad to be gay, so accidental pregnancy will never be an issue.
01/11/2013
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Incendiaire
As horrible as it must be for a man to know that a woman is going to abort the child he wants, possibly even out of malice, I don't think I could ever condone a court forcing a woman to carry a child to term. I believe too much in the importance ...
Once a man signs over his rights to a child, the courts can no longer legally pursue him for any amount of care for the child.

I think more men should sign away their rights if they're going to refuse to be involved. It's hard but in the end it's better for everyone.
01/11/2013
Silverdrop Silverdrop
If there ever comes a way to remove an embryo and artificially gestate it, then at that point, fathers should get the right to say "I want the child, even if you don't." And at that point in time, then the laws should be changed so that the embryo becomes the joint property of husband and wife, that neither can destroy without consent of the other.

But until then, I do not want anyone else making the choice of what happens inside my body. Not even my husband.
01/11/2013
SneakersAndPearls SneakersAndPearls
I do think the feelings of the father should at least be considered, but he shouldn't have final say.
01/11/2013
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