#EdenUpdate - Expectations of Conduct

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#EdenUpdate - Expectations of Conduct

Beck Beck
Quote:
Originally posted by Callisto
X Posted from the other thread.. didn't see the new thread direction until too late.

...

I've noticed that people comment on my reviews just to say how good they are.. I'd rather answer questions than see praises.. maybe ...
Praises are a good thing, that means there was no questions.
04/03/2012
Callisto Callisto
Quote:
Originally posted by Beck
Praises are a good thing, that means there was no questions.
I guess. I just like being able to help. *shrug*
04/03/2012
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Callisto
I guess. I just like being able to help. *shrug*
You did help. They are thanking you for answering all of their questions they may have had about the toy.
04/03/2012
Beck Beck
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
You did help. They are thanking you for answering all of their questions they may have had about the toy.
This exactly. I think people often forget this.
04/03/2012
DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
Quote:
Originally posted by Callisto
X Posted from the other thread.. didn't see the new thread direction until too late.

...

I've noticed that people comment on my reviews just to say how good they are.. I'd rather answer questions than see praises.. maybe ...
I'm one of those people--if I think it was a good review; that's all I'm going to say.

I'm not going to leave a long, flowery comment unless something sticks out and tugs at me. A good review is a good review, and not every comment needs to be a soliloquy.


...That being said, I rarely comment, anyway, because I'm such a damn curmudgeon.
04/03/2012
TheSinDoll TheSinDoll
Quote:
Originally posted by Forum Moderator
Point Farming:

Activities just to earn EdenPoints, that have no value to the community, are considered “Point Farming”. The following examples of point farming are not exclusive; the Forum Moderator can determine when other activities could ...
Ok - So I'm just going to toss this on out there. Why is the point farming still going on?

Am I the only one who is still seeing it?

I was looking through the forums and I can hardly find something NOT "farmed from shit in order to get points" to even comment on. I'm having to wade through the forums to find something interesting. It's getting harder.

I'm not trying to be a downer here, but damn.
04/03/2012
Gary Gary
Addressing a number of listed points and concerns: Most meaningful moderation will be handled out of the public view, through the admin and in private messages and emails. The onsite moderation will mainly be helpful suggestions, praise for exceptional behavior, and trying to cool people down when disagreements elevate.

What you - the contributors - need to do is simply enjoy the community. You can message us about any concerns or questions, you can notify of us of any post, and you will soon have a very cool 3rd option for communicating with us (and by soon, I mean this week). Flags are in place for major violations, other than that just have fun.

I would like to note one thing. Not all threads that look like spam are spam. Not all threads posted together in a short time frame are spam. While this may be a red flag to look at, we often find these to be new community members who have not really acclimated to the community standards. I myself have logged on for short periods of time and posted a few consecutive non-EF threads, and I can assure you that points never played a part of my activity. It is possible that some only spend 5-10 minutes on the site in a sitting.

And finally, everyday I see threads that seem like obvious spam to me, and those same threads sometimes end up sparking a lengthy conversation with the community. Not to mention that there are occasionally people here who speak English as a second language that do their best. I am just saying, please keep an open mind.

***

A brief update: we have a new Question and Answer program that will be introduced this week that will hopefully provide an opportunity for easier communications between EF & the community.

Yes, we introduced the new EoC; yes, we introduced the new forum mod; yes, we are still over our heads in the rest of the project that hasn't come to light, the old project we wanted to launch last week, and still a number of new abuse prevention systems we are trying to set up behind the scenes. PLEASE BE PATIENT! If there was a way to do everything at once, I would be the first in line.

To address a question we keep getting: we are working on a Best Practices thread (with screenshots) that will also be used as an email. This will be what we can all refer people to. This Best Practices thread/email will be the sort of unofficial first warning that we send people. We cannot expect people to conduct themselves in a better manner on the forum if we do not attempt to establish what this standard is first.
04/03/2012
Zombirella Zombirella
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
You can link to manufacturer sites. If you are unsure, ask!
This was what I was meaning in my question when I mentioned that I linked to a companies website, just didn't use the word 'manufacturer' which is what I meant.
04/04/2012
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombirella
This was what I was meaning in my question when I mentioned that I linked to a companies website, just didn't use the word 'manufacturer' which is what I meant.
Glad we could clear that up for you.


Also, everyone please read Gary's last comment on this page. This is addressing some of the concerns you've had about issues. We are still working on getting some of the pieces in place and we should have more news for you by the end of the day today.
04/04/2012
BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
If the "Nice Review" comments bug you, don't address them. If you feel the need to say something because of the boost to your rating that replying to comments gives you, you can do what some people around here do and wait until you rack up several of these and say "thanks for reading." It's not spamming if they say you have a nice review and every comment (regardless of content) improves your rating. If people don't have questions for you, that just means that you've done a great job on your review and answered them already.

As for the updates, I think they're good. I'm glad that EF has taken time to make their eyes blurry over it. Now we just need to follow them!
04/04/2012
sktb0007 sktb0007
Quote:
Originally posted by Beck
This exactly. I think people often forget this.
I'll second that!
04/04/2012
Gary Gary
Ok folks, here is the next step...

Best Practices: Basic Community Standards

Please chime in and give me your feedback. The plan is now that we have an example of the basic community standards, along with explanations and links, we can direct people here. This is a friendly thread that will explain how to begin interacting with the community.
04/04/2012
lilly555 lilly555
Quote:
Originally posted by Callisto
I guess. I just like being able to help. *shrug*
Take it as a compliment, it means you left no stone unturned.
04/04/2012
lilly555 lilly555
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Ok folks, here is the next step...

Best Practices: Basic Community Standards

Please chime in and give me your feedback. The plan is now that we have an example of the basic community standards, along with explanations and links, we can ...
I didn't see what was being discussed on this thread until way later. I'm going to head to the new one
04/04/2012
salaciousrex salaciousrex
Looks great, and it's all explained very well!
04/05/2012
Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Addressing a number of listed points and concerns: Most meaningful moderation will be handled out of the public view, through the admin and in private messages and emails. The onsite moderation will mainly be helpful suggestions, praise for ...
I think one major area of disagreement is on identifying spam or point farming. In your example, posting several new threads in a short amount of time may not be indicative of spam, especially if the threads ultimately result in some meaningful discussion. However, I view it differently. When I see a contributor post 5 threads that match the daily point rewards day after day, that is a pattern of point farming, regardless of whether or not one may spark a meaningful discussion. Because it leads to a meaningful discussion does not justify the motive behind the posting. These contributors also rarely, if ever, go back and participate in these threads. Also, I'm not surprised that it may spark a discussion. There are people here dying to have meaningful discussions or are always ready to step up and try to answer questions. When in doubt, most of us default to assuming the person doesn't know better.

This is an area that we somehow need to address because it is one of the major problems cluttering the forums. While EF does not view this as spam, many contributors obviously do. This is why people originally thought EF was not enforcing the new EOC, which is now obviously not the case.

And while people can argue that everyone games the system for points to a degree, no other point gathering activity negatively impacts others in the community as point farming on the forums. Emoticons responses are annoying, but point farming on the forums is about to drive people away. We need a solution that addresses this concern.
04/05/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Addressing a number of listed points and concerns: Most meaningful moderation will be handled out of the public view, through the admin and in private messages and emails. The onsite moderation will mainly be helpful suggestions, praise for ...
OK, cool.

But, what about the issue that Kindred and myself and others have brought up; people creating more than one identity to downvote others (somebody hit Kindred serveral times with Not at All Useful votes, which was total bullshit) and to vote on their OWN reviews, always EU?

It isn't difficult to do either IP searches or to see who is doing this repeatedly.

This is always a huge problems on forums and in many it is a reason for immediate banning. Eden, being a commercial site, should at least issue a warning, one public and one private, get RID of the scam votes, then keep the person on a 3 day suspension and if it happens again.... bye bye. Alternate identities should simply not be tolerated, especially as people use them to down vote others and upvote their own reviews.
04/05/2012
ScottA ScottA
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
OK, cool.

But, what about the issue that Kindred and myself and others have brought up; people creating more than one identity to downvote others (somebody hit Kindred serveral times with Not at All Useful votes, which was total bullshit) and ...
There can be legitimate reasons for multiple accounts on the same IP - spouses, roommates, etc may all want their own account rather than sharing.

"Spam" comment - I usually try to combine ideas in a single post, but sometimes they're replies to previous posts where quoting the context seems as though it helps, in which case I do post multiple replies in a short(ish) time period. Thoughts?
04/05/2012
Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by ScottA
There can be legitimate reasons for multiple accounts on the same IP - spouses, roommates, etc may all want their own account rather than sharing.

"Spam" comment - I usually try to combine ideas in a single post, but sometimes ...
I don't think anyone would consider replying several times within a thread as necessarily spamming. Presumably each post is in response to a question or comment and is meaningful in and of itself. I also don't think many that are farming for points participate in this sort of activity, so personally, I don't see it as an issue on the forums.
04/05/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by ScottA
There can be legitimate reasons for multiple accounts on the same IP - spouses, roommates, etc may all want their own account rather than sharing.

"Spam" comment - I usually try to combine ideas in a single post, but sometimes ...
There have been and are at the moment several people on Eden who have more than one account with the ONLY purpose being to vote on their own reviews and to down vote other people. That is what I was talking about.
04/05/2012
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
There have been and are at the moment several people on Eden who have more than one account with the ONLY purpose being to vote on their own reviews and to down vote other people. That is what I was talking about.
If you suspect this, report it! If you don't notify us, how can we help you? Just make sure that there is actual evidence that this person is voting on their own reviews with a separate account.
04/05/2012
Ansley Ansley
We are discussing all of these ideas in real time, in addition to our daily responsibilities. Please have patience with us.
04/05/2012
Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
If you suspect this, report it! If you don't notify us, how can we help you? Just make sure that there is actual evidence that this person is voting on their own reviews with a separate account.
Playing devil's advocate, but when I've pointed out similar patterns before, I was informed that there was nothing that could be done without definitive proof. My situation was where I found a reviewer that I felt did not write very good reviews but received Extremely Useful from another account. This other account had a similar screen name and coincidentally only voted on the other persons reviews. I agree, there is no definitive evidence, but people aren't going to list the same email under each account. So barring that, what evidence is required?
04/05/2012
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
Playing devil's advocate, but when I've pointed out similar patterns before, I was informed that there was nothing that could be done without definitive proof. My situation was where I found a reviewer that I felt did not write very good ...
Yes it is tricky. What we have been trying to do is cross reference everything in the admin, to narrow things down. On the front end, all you can really do is report suspicious activity. Once we have the info we can look into the accounts activity. Sometimes we don't find anything at first, but after time goes on, new activity does help us to resolve the issue. Keep in mind, we really try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt to be fair to everyone.
04/05/2012
LambChop LambChop
Quote:
Originally posted by Forum Moderator
Forum Moderation:

As our community grows, the needs of our community change. Part of maintaining a healthy balance of growth and activity is Forum Moderation. We are now introducing a new direction of moderation which will continue to adapt ...
Great idea!
04/05/2012
lilly555 lilly555
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
OK, cool.

But, what about the issue that Kindred and myself and others have brought up; people creating more than one identity to downvote others (somebody hit Kindred serveral times with Not at All Useful votes, which was total bullshit) and ...
In the case of a user like the one who down voted Kindred is it possible to keep them open to the site but not the community. As if they can still purchase goods but not garner points and no longer be allowed to vote? Take away the perks.
04/05/2012
lilly555 lilly555
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
If you suspect this, report it! If you don't notify us, how can we help you? Just make sure that there is actual evidence that this person is voting on their own reviews with a separate account.
I think the problem is community members don't feel like they should have to monitor and report the activities of others. This is something that can lead to worsening the community. Some folks might feel like they're walking on eggshells and that they cannot trust other members. There should be a line drawn here. This is why an alternative should be drawn where it isn't a members responsibility to report down voting, multiple accounts, up voting, spam threads, trolling, and so forth. Especially when it would be the reporters responsibility to investigate and provide proof or else their flag isn't taken seriously and they're reprimanded for abusing the system.
04/05/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by lilly555
I think the problem is community members don't feel like they should have to monitor and report the activities of others. This is something that can lead to worsening the community. Some folks might feel like they're walking on eggshells and ...
I think that you are taking this whole thing a little the wrong way. No one is forcing the community to monitor and report. But if everyone is going to start threads and complain about the problems they see, they can certainly notify us so that we might try to resolve them.
04/05/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by lilly555
In the case of a user like the one who down voted Kindred is it possible to keep them open to the site but not the community. As if they can still purchase goods but not garner points and no longer be allowed to vote? Take away the perks.
The community is on the site, so that will not work (but I like the idea). There is a point suspension admin feature in the works, along with point award system I recently mentioned.

(* Although I would like to note - Even things that seem really small can take a long time in production, that is why I really do not like to reveal that many upcoming plans. Things do change, sometimes problems occur, and I really do not like to make any empty promises to you guys. This case was a little different though, that is why I am sharing.)
04/05/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
Playing devil's advocate, but when I've pointed out similar patterns before, I was informed that there was nothing that could be done without definitive proof. My situation was where I found a reviewer that I felt did not write very good ...
As Stormy noted - for us to be fair and give everyone the same consideration, it can be a little tricky for us to come up with black and white proof in any one single instance. However, through motoring overall pattern it becomes easier to spot definitive and abuse and inappropriate behavior. Those of you who do come to us when you observe suspicious activity are a great help. Often this helps us to spot and identify abuse a lot sooner than if we noticed it on our own.
04/05/2012
Total posts: 200
Unique posters: 93