Should it be TABOO? 01: "Hands-On" Sexual Instruction at Puberty

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Should it be TABOO? 01: "Hands-On" Sexual Instruction at Puberty

EJ EJ 08/06/2011

Sexual practices vary around the world. What one culture thinks of as normal, another culture thinks of as taboo (or forbidden). For instance...

...on the South Pacific island of Mangaia, when a boy reach puberty, around the age of thirteen or fourteen years old, he is paired with an experienced older woman who acts as his sexual tutor. She will give him detailed physical instructions for bringing a female partner to climax multiple times prior to having his own orgasm.

What do you think of such practices?

Invited: All users.

Discussion Topics

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EJ EJ
What do you think?
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MaryExy MaryExy
I think being allowed to learn as you grow is important. That's how different styles and techniques develop. And some relationships, like my own, don't revolve around the female having orgasms. Your specific example wouldn't fit that, though there may be other situations where the male would be taught differently. Honestly, though, what if the male got an instructor that didn't teach him about the way he's naturally leaning?
08/06/2011
Callisto Callisto
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
I think we just need to accept that it happens and embrace personal experiences and growth. Don't stifle their psychological growth cause you think its icky
08/06/2011
ap-the-aper ap-the-aper
In relation to the example that you described...

Discussion? Yes, why not? There's nothing that shouldn't be discussed if the child in question is interested/ready to hear it.

Hands on demonstrations of what's being discussed? I'm going to have to go with no, I'm not comfortable with that idea.
08/06/2011
kjkitty kjkitty
As a female who loves to orgasm, I would definitely appreciate such instruction. That is for sure!!
08/07/2011
Madeira Madeira
I think hands on is fucked up because the kid is vulnerable and easy to take advantage of
08/07/2011
Ryuson Ryuson
I feel that sex is to be shared between two people in love, so this contradicts my view on the act. To each their own, though!
08/07/2011
Ghost Ghost
I don't think it's inherently bad OR good. I think the young person (of ANY gender) should have the freedom to experiment, and seek out a professional if they want. I would not make it custom to do it, and force them into an encounter they may not want.
08/07/2011
anonomous anonomous
Quote:
Originally posted by Madeira
I think hands on is fucked up because the kid is vulnerable and easy to take advantage of
Thank youuuuuu!!!
08/07/2011
Selective Sensualist Selective Sensualist
Quote:
Originally posted by Madeira
I think hands on is fucked up because the kid is vulnerable and easy to take advantage of
Agreed.

You know what else is fucked up? To assume that a young male will want to grow up to pleasure females. What if he is gay? What if he is not yet certain how he identifies? Isn't the pressure to find one's "place" in society bad enough at that age (at any age, really, but particularly during adolescence) without pressuring young males to receive "hands-on instruction" of this nature from an adult woman?

When an adolescent voluntarily seeks hands-on instruction from another, more experienced adolescent (when they are fairly close in age), the two adolescents are on more equal footing. There would not be as huge of a power discrepancy as there would be with an adult; the adolescent would not be nearly as vulnerable with another adolescent as s/he would be with an adult. That is why it is illegal for people over the age of 18 to have sexual relations with a minor in this country. It is to protect the minor from being coerced, controlled, taken advantage of, etc., before s/he has mentally matured enough to properly advocate for him/herself. Adults are authority figures to children and adolescents, and it is usually harder for adolescents to stand up to an adult who they feel is coercing them than it is for them to stand up to another adolescent who is closer to their age. As authority figures, adults have certain responsibilities toward children and adolescents. It is not appropriate for an authority figure to have sexual relations with someone under authority (think doctors and patients, police officers and detainees, clergy and laity, etc.).

I do think it would be wonderful if each adolescent had a trusted adult to ask any sexually related question that s/he may have (or any other type of question, for that matter). But an adult giving hands-on sexual instruction to an underage child? No.
08/07/2011
Wild Orchid Wild Orchid
Every model of sexuality seen world-wide has it's pluses and minuses. I've read quite a bit about the Mangaian set-up and while the heterosexual women benefit from it by getting multi-orgasmic sex the men have more performance anxiety. They can be laughed at and denigrated for ejaculating prematurely or not being able to keep an erection. There are strict sexual norms and little room for variety and diversity just like in a puritanical society. The only difference is the number of orgasms. Woman is the one who is being acted upon, man is the actor - whether it agrees with their personal preferences or not. Women, who's greatest pleasure is pleasuring their male partner don't fit in that scheme. Homosexual people are invisible.

What young people need is a sex-ed program that teaches that safe, sane, and consensual are the most important guidelines for healthy and enjoyable sexuality. They need to be taught to set boundaries and to respect other's boundaries. When they know the possible consequences, the ways to minimize the negative ones and know that whether they'll say "no" or "yes" their decision will be respected, they can create their own sexual expression freely. If they want to acquire certain skills they can find people who want to teach them. What matters is that they do it with their own agenda.

We don't need another set of people imposing their sexual taste on others. We've already got hardcore porn and sex-shaming instead of fact and consent-based sex-ed.
08/07/2011
Beck Beck
They need to learn it they already know most of it just not enough.
08/07/2011
Steve of Eden Steve of Eden
I understand that all cultures are different... but dont we call this child molestation here???
08/07/2011
Sex'и'Violence Sex'и'Violence
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve of Eden
I understand that all cultures are different... but dont we call this child molestation here???
This.

I think this practice should definitely be illegal, though some kind of instruction in this department should be included in the schooling system or at least made available to students as a part of sex-ed.
08/07/2011
newfoundlust newfoundlust
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
As
Ong as it was for both guys and girls it would be worth discussing.
08/07/2011
Istanbull Istanbull
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
That sounds just like what the anti-sexual education people in America are telling parents the classes comprise of.
08/08/2011
El-Jaro El-Jaro
I'm all for sex education. Ignorance of sex often leads to over-population (at worst) and disappointment (at best).

What better way to learn about how a car works than by going to a mechanic?

As for ages and stuff, I don't judge other cultures (if I'm aware I'm doing it). Remember, it wasn't 100 years ago that people were getting married at 15.
08/08/2011
EJ EJ
Ugh...I have such mixed feelings about this.

I'm a kinesthetic (hands-on, learn by doing) learner, so from a purely practical point of view, this would have been my preferred way to learn. (Like JR said, "what better way to learn about how a car works than by going to a mechanic?")

And morally, I don't have any issues with sex before marriage (or love), so that wouldn't have been a problem for me personally, but I know it would be for a lot of people, especially here in the United States. So if such instruction ever WERE made available, I wouldn't think it wise to make it mandatory for families or individuals that had moral/religious issue with it.

I also wouldn't think that such instruction should be geared specifically toward the heterosexual population (as many folks here have already pointed out). I'd lean toward a system that teaches everyone how the male AND female bodies work, regardless of sexual preference.

And yes, as Madeira pointed out, children ARE vulnerable and easy to take advantage of, so I don't think a child should ever be REQUIRED to allow someone to touch them sexually.

Realistically, most adolescents are going to experiment. It would be nice if they at least had ACCESS to sufficient information, education and preparation (from someone who wasn't also in the earlier learning stages) in order to do so safely. So like Elnoa, though I don't think hands-on sexual education should be mandatory or forced, I do think it would be nice if adolescents did have "the freedom to experiment, and seek out a professional if they want."
08/14/2011
babychika babychika
Quote:
Originally posted by Madeira
I think hands on is fucked up because the kid is vulnerable and easy to take advantage of
Exactly what i was thinking..
01/16/2012
Ms. Spice Ms. Spice
I don't know, I'm usually pretty socially liberal, but this seems like this is taking advantage of children. If they decide to do this with another child that's consenting, then I don't see a problem, but as someone said above before, what if they're not straight? And what if they don't want to do? Sorry, sexual abuse of children needs to stay out of our country, thanks.
01/16/2012
SexyStuff SexyStuff
Morally, I find it wrong, though I can see the benefits of sexual training because while sex is natural, it doesn't come naturally all the time.
01/16/2012
quinceykay quinceykay
No, I don't think that's right with kids and adults, because, like people said, it's definitely taking advantage of a vulnerable situation. And children are going to learn on their own through experience and their peers anyway. I DO think that we should be more open and comfortable talking about it, and I know that children are more sexual beings than we think. But beginning puberty, I don't think that's old enough to be able to realize that they might be being manipulated, or old enough to necessarily consent.
01/16/2012
Gunsmoke Gunsmoke
I'm not going to waste a lot of keystrokes on something that will never happen here - or even Europe for that matter - but my take on this is that I'm not a fan of the 'village' concept in raising children. Sure we all need help and mentors - but this practice is bit outrageous.
01/16/2012
cathy23 cathy23
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
Apparently some female school teachers here in the U.S. must agree with the folks in Mangaia.
02/14/2012
GONE! GONE!
I would rather see people have access to resources so they can experiment themselves with partners their own age until they're more mature instead.
02/26/2012
Undead Undead
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
I'm gonna say no
02/26/2012
K101 K101
WOW! I have a lot of thoughts and opinions and even stats I could get into about this, but I won't. Promise!

I'll just say that no, I think it is absolutely morally wrong and wrong, wrong, wrong. Yes, everyone should learn all sorts of things, but for one someone that age is not ready and there are many detrimental affects, they aren't stable enough, etc. etc. No. It's irresponsible. There are STD's, pregnancies. A boy that age can't even get a job, but he needs to be having sex with an older woman?! Who came up with that idea anyways, men?
02/26/2012
funny4now funny4now
Quote:
Originally posted by Selective Sensualist
Agreed.

You know what else is fucked up? To assume that a young male will want to grow up to pleasure females. What if he is gay? What if he is not yet certain how he identifies? Isn't the pressure to find one's "place" ...
Nice response. It is wonderful if young people, or even older folks, have an experienced, trustworthy adult they can go to for honest, reliable information--not practice sessions.

I was wondering if the young male actually brings the "mentor" to orgasm and if penetrative vaginal sex is included.
02/26/2012
funny4now funny4now
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
I'm all for sex education. Ignorance of sex often leads to over-population (at worst) and disappointment (at best).

What better way to learn about how a car works than by going to a mechanic?

As for ages and stuff, I don't ...
A friend's aunt got married at 14 to a man her family chose. The man was 23 at the time. When the aunt found out what happened the night they got married, she jumped out of bed, dressed and ran home to tell her parents. The mother sent her back to the "husband" with no instructions other than to lay there and say nothing.

In this case they were married for over 50 years until the husband died. I still wouldn't condone this. At the very least Mom should have given some explanation and instruction on what was happening. I also think 14, then or now, is way too young for intimate sexual expression with another person, but that is where I am on this point.
02/26/2012
richsam richsam
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
no, I don't have a moral issue with it, but I just don't think it's a good idea.
02/26/2012
BlooJay BlooJay
This is not a good idea.
02/27/2012
Stinkytofu10 Stinkytofu10
legal, but not required. only people who are curious can have the option to attend, but it shouldn't be mandatory education for anyone.
03/03/2012
Khanner Khanner
It is actually a common excuse among people who have raped children that they were "preparing them for sex" or "teaching them how to do it." This is molestation, not sex ed.
03/15/2012
eroticmutt eroticmutt
I think it would be excellent if this were at least an option rather than something to be frowned on. And it would be a great way to dispell some of the myths and misconceptions about sex, as it wouldn't all be shrouded in secrecy, as well as making society more open and accepting of sex in general, while giving women a means to speak up about what they do and don't like, and showing men that it is an important part of sexual relationships to work toward pleasing your partner in the same way as you are, with climax.
03/15/2012
Curiouscat Curiouscat
Sounds horrible. Children don't need instructions on anything sexual. Sex ed class is enough when they are in high school. Kids should be playing soccer or something not thinking about these things at that age. Sounds emotionally scarring.
03/15/2012
RomanticGoth RomanticGoth
Yes and No. I think kids should have some training. It might help them make safer choices if taught properly. No, because 13-14 seems a little too young. They should be given the option, though.

What about girls? Why wouldn't they get taught how to please someone?
03/15/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
I don't think it's a good idea at all. It will easily lead to all kinds of sexual abuse. There is a pseudo Mormon group, where the father or one of the uncles "trains" the young girls, as young as 12 or 13, no older than 16 "for marriage." All they are doing is raping those girls. I do think it's wrong.

I think young people do well finding their own sexual partners when they are ready for it, not when some heaving breathing adult thinks they should.

In fact, the whole idea makes me shudder.
03/15/2012
wildorchid wildorchid
It's hard to accurately comment on cultural practices that are different than our own, while we have all been raised that sex with minors is morally wrong, the children that grow up in other cultures have been raised with a different mindset all their lives and will have a different take on this topic than we will.
03/15/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Khanner
It is actually a common excuse among people who have raped children that they were "preparing them for sex" or "teaching them how to do it." This is molestation, not sex ed.
You are absolutely right. Most molesters say the victim "wanted it" even if he or she was crying and begging and saying no. I think it's a terrible idea.

Give young people information, but let them learn HOW to have sex by trial and error and let them choose their own partners themselves. And as SS said, this "system" completely leaves out GLBT people. But, I think it's wrong for anyone of any orientation.
03/15/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by wildorchid
It's hard to accurately comment on cultural practices that are different than our own, while we have all been raised that sex with minors is morally wrong, the children that grow up in other cultures have been raised with a different mindset all ...
I don't buy into the concept that "but it's someone's culture" and that makes it OK. Some "cultures" use slavery, is that OK, since it's "part of their culture?" Some cultures practice all manner of non-consensual genital mutilation, is that "OK" since it's part of "their culture." Some "cultures" murder the second twin born during a full term twin birth. Does it make it OK, since it's part of their culture? We could go on and on.

Having sex with children, who are unable to give consent is not right, whether it's "someone's culture" or not.

"Mindset" or not, rape is still horrible and damaging. Having a fucked up "culture" is no excuse to hurt people.
03/15/2012
gloomybear gloomybear
i personally think this is wrong and that individuals going through puberty should be taught verbally about sex but they should also have the right to have sex when they are ready and personally i dont believe that when haveing sex it is really important for me to climax because when i have sex with the man i love its a mentally pleasing experience and while he wants to make sure i climax im just happy he cares
03/15/2012
Curiouscat Curiouscat
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
You are absolutely right. Most molesters say the victim "wanted it" even if he or she was crying and begging and saying no. I think it's a terrible idea.

Give young people information, but let them learn HOW to have sex by trial ...
Completely agree!
03/15/2012
LLmama LLmama
Quote:
Originally posted by Curiouscat
Completely agree!
Ditto!!!
03/15/2012
LLmama LLmama
Other cultures do a LOT of things that I would never want to be a part of! Including this. I know when I was 15 I wasn't ready to have sex like most of my friends "were." I wouldn't want to be told I'm at puberty and now it's time to learn hands on how to give a hand job/head or have sex. Just like I would NEVER want my child to do anything that S/he does not feel ready to do.

In some cultures they cut off a girls labia or perform circumcision at an older age. Would we all want to do that? Probably not Or stretch our bottom lip, or elongate our necks? Most of us, probably not.

I do not feel this is right and I'm pretty comfortable doing things when I'm ready or my child is ready.

Great post though
03/15/2012
unfulfilled unfulfilled
I wouldn't want it to be a required age, but offered when a person felt they were ready to start sex.
03/15/2012
Nora Nora
Sounds like a good way for pedo's to get free access to young kids...
03/15/2012
HugsAndBites HugsAndBites
Very bad idea.
03/15/2012
SexyRayne SexyRayne
I don't think it should be mandatory but i think honestly it would be a good thing for guys to learn, in our society it is so commonly about the mans orgasm and not ours. I think sexual health and well being would be better if a man did have some training in pleasing a female. And i would up the age to about 16 or so because that is when most people are having sex.
03/15/2012
curious kitten curious kitten
I think that adolescents should be allowed to develop sexually, naturally without physical instruction being forced upon them. I'm all for sex education, we need to learn about our bodies as much we need to learn about everything else as we grow up. We all develop at different ages and stages. To have a set age that a person is suppose to develop sexually is too much control by another human being.
03/15/2012
Khanner Khanner
Also, for everyone stating moral relativism in this thread, rape trauma is a universal experience across time and culture.
03/16/2012
pinkcupcakes pinkcupcakes
I feel like this is a good idea but at the same time, what if the person being tutored is gay/bi/lesbian? Do they have to have a tutor of the opposite sex?
03/16/2012
ViVix ViVix
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
I don't have a moral issue with it. It just kind of seems like it could create a lot of problems.
03/17/2012
goofballmaster goofballmaster
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
It would definitely decrease the amount of stress people have.
03/19/2012
amazon amazon
I don't think it's a good idea, though I'm not sure it's a horrible concept.
09/22/2012
butts butts
Honestly I'm a bit torn, part of me says that sex education is important, part of me says it's better to learn on your own. I don't think you should be paired with someone to necessarily hands-on teach you, but I do think that you should be given the resources to learn by yourself. I'm leaning more towards learning yourself.
09/23/2012
gavind gavind
I agree to this. The reason why kids get pregnant at early stage lacked sex education.

It wouldn't hurt educating them. They will eventually know that as well. EdenFantasys Logo
09/23/2012
pixylove101 pixylove101
Hands on, I am a little uncomfortable with that.
09/23/2012
panthercat23 panthercat23
I think it should at least be an option, but it's up to the parents if the children undergo the instruction.
09/23/2012
closed account closed account
how about books and videos? plus that is way too young to be with an older partner and for it to just be about sexual pleasure.

i do believe that sex is better when there are feelings involved. i would always encourage someone, especially for their first...to be IN LOVE.

i consider myself pretty open-minded. but i do confess i squinched up my face at this one with that "icky" feeling of it just being wrong
09/23/2012
Supervixen Supervixen
I don't think it's bad when other cultures do it--that's their culture and their norm. If we tried doing it in our culture thought (and I'm referring rather broadly to a general Western culture, here), it just wouldn't work. That's not OUR culture, and it never will be. We just haven't evolved in that direction. It would be pretty hard to try to derail our sexuality down a different path successfully.

I think that kids should find their sexuality on their own and that is should evolve naturally with their experiences. I totally support answering questions honestly, being open and positive and not shaming a child's sexual development--but we don't need to teach them how to perform cunnilingus or fellatio when they're still becoming sexual beings.

It reminds me of the part in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, where John Cleese is a professor teaching sex ed to a bunch of teenagers, and he very matter-of-factly demonstrates how sex works with his wife. The whole joke is how absurd it is to instruct something that comes naturally to us all.

We learn how to be good lovers through experience. Besides, there's plenty out there to read about sexual techniques, anyway. This kind of education already exists, if one wishes to pursue it.
09/23/2012
konicaguy konicaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by EJ
What do you think?
I think they should all have to fumble around and learn the way did...
11/03/2012
Bethy Cassatt Bethy Cassatt
I have a lot of friends who, with their first partner, learned the ways of pleasing and other such things. Be it, it's by that person's choice, and they are quite young and vunerable. I see a practice of training as going horribly wrong on many levels because of these qualms. So, if it's with consent, yes, but if it becomes forced, no. But this boy has a choice of his own, and so does the woman.
11/04/2012
Zandrock Zandrock
There is a problem with this. It is heteronormative and does not account for gay men/women and men/women who have different sexual practices.

This is why I think safe sex should be taught, and that should be the focus. That way it can be applied to any sexual orientation. And that way no one feels bad (or as bad) about their sexuality.
11/04/2012
Total posts: 63
Unique posters: 56