Should you be so sure you have a G-spot?

Nickisonehere Nickisonehere
Let me apologize in advance for length. Hopefully this is informative to someone, and maybe interesting as well.
I looked up "G-spot" on Wikipedia. The first sentence:
"The...G-spot, is a controversial term used to describe the area of the female vagina that might contain an erogenous zone…”
“Controversial”? "Might contain”? Wikipedia wasn’t helpful about why, so I looked into a little bit.
I'll mention the original finding in some detail, then some related articles and what seems weird to me about such “controversy”.
GRAFENBERG:
The scientific "search for the elusive G-spot" began in 1950, when Ernest Gräfenberg published an article on the topic, (link), although the term wasn't coined, in his name, until later. Gräfenberg's concern is with therapeutic issues relevant to female orgasm. His thesis: the startlingly high percentage of women who do not have vaginal orgasms coupled with the "evidence" (which I'll mention below) discussed suggests that, "...the anterior wall of the vagina along the urethra is the seat of a distinct erotogenic zone and has to be taken into account more in the treatment of female sexual deficiency" (pp.3-4 here link).
As you can see, the goal is to better understand (and in turn, better treat) “sexual deficiency”.
So, what "evidence" does he have in mind? Two arguments:
1) "Even when there was a good response in the entire vagina, this particular area [the G-spot area] was more easily stimulated by the finger than other areas of the vagina." (p. 2 same link)
This argument is straightforward. Assuming that there is relatively greater "erotic" sensitivity in this area, the area constitutes a good candidate for an erogenous zone distinct from the rest of the vaginal wall.
2) And regarding what's nowadays commonly called "squirting", he writes, "Occasionally the production of fluids is so profuse that a large towel has to be spread under the woman to prevent the bedsheets getting soiled. This convulsory expulsion of fluid occurs always at the acme of the orgasm and simultaneously with it...I am inclined to believe that the "urine" reported [by Kinsley] to be expelled is not urine, but only secretions of the intraurethral glands correlated with the erotogenic zone along the urethra in the anterior vaginal wall." (p.3 same link)
The idea here is that: stimulation of the “G-spot”, an area of the vaginal wall near intraurethral glands, can be stimulated to the point of producing a distinct effect (“squirting”) from clitoral orgasms. A prediction is hence borne out: (in general) if all women have a G-spot, then all women can squirt. And note that the title of the article is "The Role of Urethra in Female Orgasm".
WHY THE CONTROVERSY?
Gräfenberg didn't cite any non-anecdotal evidence for arguments (1) or (2). This has been one major criticism.
Argument (2) seems to have been the focus of studies in the 80's and early 90's (see link, and references 10 and 17 on the wikipedia link). There was a number of tests conducted testing the prediction just mentioned. Apparently the findings are all very inconclusive.
Now, suppose that we had conclusive evidence that Gräfenberg was mistaken in thinking that this G-spot area is correlated with “squirting”. Even so, because so many women believe, on the basis of personal experience, that G-spot stimulation can be more pleasurable than other areas of the vaginal canal, then, absent “outweighing evidence”, there’s still good reason to think that the G-spot is an erogenous zone. Lack of consensus about the 80’s and 90’s studies on female ejaculation isn’t cause for panic or controversy about the existence of the G-spot (or that it’s an erogenous zone). To debunk the view that the G-spot area is an erogenous zone, one needs evidence against (1), not just (2); moreover, they’d need to explain (to some extent) how it is that so many women are mistaken.
So, I don’t see that the controversial findings surrounding (2) warrant the view that the G-spot’s existence is controversial.
TWO FINDINGS ABOUT ARGUMENT (1)
In 2006, evidence was found that there isn't a greater distribution of nerve endings in the putative G-spot area than in any other area of the vaginal canal (link). If this is true, then this is decent initial evidence that there's no G-spot. I know nothing about this topic, but this seems like a legitimate reason for doubting the soundness of (1).
More recently though (2008), another study using ultrasonography tested 20 women during orgasm. In the abstract (link; I don’t have access to the whole article) the authors write:
"Results: The urethrovaginal space and distal, middle, and proximal urethrovaginal segments [parts/areas of the G-spot] were thinner in women without vaginal orgasm. A direct correlation between the presence of vaginal orgasm and the thickness of urethrovaginal space was found. Women with a thicker urethrovaginal space were more likely to experience vaginal orgasm..."
"Conclusions: The measurement of the space within the anterior vaginal wall by ultrasonography is a simple tool to explore anatomical variability of the human clitoris-urethrovagina l complex, also known as the G-spot, which can be correlated to the ability to experience the vaginally activated orgasm."
SO?
I don’t know what to make of these two findings, other than that the data is extremely limited and in conflict. Here’s one thing that might be right though.
While it's true that the "scientific" evidence regarding (1) is far from conclusive, it doesn't follow that the TOTAL evidence regarding (1) is equally inconclusive. Why?
Non-scientific personal and testimonial evidence are acceptable to rely on UNLESS there is “outweighing” evidence supporting the opposing conclusion. For instance, the mere fact that I've heard a number of women give detailed descriptions of the differences between clitoral and G-spot orgasms is good, initial evidence that there is such a thing as the G-spot. Controversial and inconclusive scientific evidence to the contrary (the nerve-ending finding) fails to supply GOOD reason to think that such women are mistaken. It’s quite easy for me to distinguish between sensitive and less sensitive areas of my cock. If this is ANYTHING like a woman’s experience of distinguishing between a touch of the G-spot area and another area of the vaginal wall, each during arousal, then I’m inclined to think that women aren’t mistaken about what they’re feeling.
I would be profusely baffled if someone said to me, “Actually, that area on your cock that you think feels better than other places really isn’t any more pleasurable than any other part”. If you’re a woman, maybe being told, “Actually, that area in your vaginal canal that you think feels better than other places really isn’t any more pleasurable than any other part” is equally baffling.
So my (putative) point is: absent GOOD scientific evidence, I don’t see that one should have to lower their confidence by much (if at all) that there’s a G-spot (this could easily be mistaken though, I’m not particularly confident about it).
QUESTIONS (if you made it this far lol)
You’re welcome to post about anything of course, but here are some things I’m particularly curious about.
A: Suppose there aren’t more nerve endings in the G-spot area. If you’ve experienced a difference in sensitivity and pleasure in that area, do you think that you might be mistaken since there’s no more nerve endings there than other areas of the vaginal wall?
B: Does the fact that this is a controversial issue seem stupid/dumb/ridiculous to you?
C: Does anything you’ve just read change your opinion about whether or not there’s such a thing as the G-spot? How so?
05/26/2009
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bodymodboy bodymodboy
A: I do not have a G-spot, my body just doesn't have one. Like with all individuals, some people don't find stimulation in that certain area. Does that mean that because I don't have a G-spot, suddenly there is blatant proof that there is no such thing? No.
B: No. It just proves men are still using science to be misogynistic.
C: Nope.
05/26/2009
Tuesday Tuesday
A. If there aren't more nerve endings in the g-spot area, then the density of nerve endings shouldn't be used to define where a g-spot is. Maybe the skene's gland underneath contributes. I don't know. All I know is that that area is far more sensitive than any other inside my vagina.

B. I just hope they continue to do studies on g-spots and squirting because I'm endlessly fascinated by the topic. I'm not sure what they mean by "urethrovaginal space" but I have read that if your clitoris is an inch or farther from your urethra/vagina that you are likely not to climax through vaginal sex. But they're talking about men, not g-spot toys.

C. No.
05/26/2009
Naughty Student Naughty Student
I don’t understand what is so controversial about the g-spot. It is like the equivalent to the prostate (although the prostate is a gland where as the g-spot is an erectile tissue).

About the study saying there were no differences in general for the amount of nerve endings in the g-spot compared to other areas of the vaginal canal…perhaps the g-spots arousal creates a sort of ultra sensitivity to the nerve endings already located in that area (perhaps a certain neurotransmitter activates the g-spot nerve endings so that they become ultra sensitive kind of like the effects of a drug specifically for the g-spot – I hope this makes sense). I know where my g-spot is and whether there are less nerve endings there or not I can really tell that it is where it is (quite tricky to reach actually).

I find the controversial stuff quite interesting. I like reading scientific studies of all kinds (albeit I don’t always understand and require assistance from Webber). What ever finding one makes there will always be someone else who finds different data. That’s what is so cool about science it’s like a treasure hunt for the truth. On the other hand I am so biased bcs I am a woman and am so certain each woman has a g-spot whether she knows it or not whether she has found it or not, but I can see both sides of the “coin” so to speak. Actually I’m with Tuesday on the encouragement of additional research. I love reading new discoveries about the human body and squirting is so fascinating. So it is saddening to me to think some are really certain there is no g-spot area but I don’t think the controversy is ridiculous or stupid.

I haven’t changed my mind abut the existence of the g-spot, I am open minded to different perspectives but I hold my views!

Great thread by the way (a good read)!
05/26/2009
Naughty Student Naughty Student
Quote:
Originally posted by Tuesday
A. If there aren't more nerve endings in the g-spot area, then the density of nerve endings shouldn't be used to define where a g-spot is. Maybe the skene's gland underneath contributes. I don't know. All I know is that that area ... More
The reason why the distance of the clitoris has a link is bcs most women orgasm through clitoral or clitoral/vaginal stimulation and during vaginal sex the further the clit is away from your opening the less likely it will be stimulated by the partners pubic bone etc so the less likely you are to orgasm, but hey, thats why toys were invented!
05/26/2009
Liz2 Liz2
I think the body is absolutely amazing! And at the same time we can all be so different. I believe that all women have a g spot, it may be elusive or even unresponsive but that doesn't mean it is necessarily "missing". Too much of this research was done by males who all too often equate the g spot with their p spot...so different.
I am now 26 and I was totally unaware of mine until about three years ago. And then WOW! Even now by partners can't find it but I certainly can and with a g spot vibe and/or g spot dill always brings me pleasure.

At times my clit is overly sensitive or not responsive but I like most women have learned to back off, relax and enjoy the moment anyway. Same with my g spot. Some women who have never orgasm-ed, might think their clitoris is missing or might not even know about it. My mother, who was quite open about sex, never explained the workings of the clitoris much less the g spot. So much was self discovery, trial and error but always moving forward.

Partner sex for me builds on trial and error and a sense of humour. So much ultimate satisfaction depends on the position, the build of each partner, the size and girth of the guys penis, our moves together and the guy's appeal..... and how it all comes together.

Toys add so much to the discovery process...I smile now when I remember my first toys but so treasure the experiences. I put anal beads in my vagina w/o knowing better.

I have to add, I also learned so much sexually from my relationship with a g/f (who also has a b/f).
05/27/2009
Viv Viv
Okay that's a lot to cover so i'm just going to start where I can.
A) The original testing done by Kinsey in terms of how sensitive the different parts of a vagina are was done by lightly touching the areas with a q-tip like device. Anyone with a g-spot will tell you that light touching is not gonna do much for anyone. If they had applied firm pressure, the results would have been different--which is because the sensation received from gspotting is not a surface sensation. This would be why the test that measured nerve ending in the vaginal wall came up with their results. (those results by the way doesn't rule out the existence of a gpsot. it's common medical knowledge that people have many more nerves in their feet than in most other places and this is why people love foot massages. But not everyone does. i personally feel nothing with foot massages. like why are you doing that? it does nothing. People will feel things different ways no matter the number of nerves there. But no one is disputing the existence of feet.)

anyway--the structure of the gspot is a combination of both the legs of the clitoris that surround the urethra and the erectile tissue between them. (most people believe the clit is only and external structure but in fact is about as long as the average penis, but all except the glans is internal.) So the idea that the number of nerve endings inside the vagina is a factor that could disprove gspots doesn't hold water (or female ejaculate for that matter) since the gspot is most likely been found to be part of the extension of the internal clitoris and the parurethral glads in the urethral sponge and not at the surface of the skin.

(anyone else more more farmiliar with the specifics please correct me if necesary. I'm no anatomist--I just read a lot.

B)I agree with bodymodboy-- it just means that the study of female sexuality is GREATLY stunted. The internal clitoris on the whole was discovered back in the 1600's but then all gynos forgot about it until recently. nice going. It's just a testament to the extent of sexism we're overcoming.

C) Hells no.
05/27/2009
Red Red
To me the title of this thread is crazy. It's like asking if I should be sure I have a thumb My G-spot gets very large and very swollen when stimulated - it's impossible to miss.

All female bodied folks are built with differences in their neither regions. It is my belief that everyone has an area that would be technically considered a g-spot - it's just that in some it's smaller/less nerve-alicious/whateve r. Although, you never know, biology is an odd mistress. Some just haven't found how it likes to be stimulated yet, and some have likely found it does nothing. Whatever - just do what feels good, right?

Clits are just as complex and picky! I used to think mine was broken/did not work

anyways in response to the ABC questions:

A)No, I am not mistaken. I have a gspot.
B)I find the concept of the g-spot "controversy" just so....tiresome. Would love to see some nice fresh research on the subject. There's stuff coming out - there was that ultrasound study earlier this year (or last year)
C) Nope. I've seen and felt plenty of them.
05/27/2009
Goodess of Hedonism Goodess of Hedonism
Unfortunately I grew up in a strict Catholic enviroment and even with two older sisters I didn't even know that women could HAVE orgasms until I was 25. I could never find anything on the computer to help me out with information until I was 30 and didn't experience my first one, which was clitoral, until I was 34. I was already married by then and felt I had missed out on alot of fun with partners. My only orgasms have ever come from toys, and now that I'm separated a have a new lover, we both can't wait to try to achieve a g-spot orgasm for me.
After reading these posts it infuriates me that women are still pushed aside and considered almost non-sexual in 2009. I'm still in my thirties and have, I believe, reached sexual peakness, I want it all the time like a 17 yr old boy. Thank GOD we have toys and even if they are made to serve a market to line people's pockets...I am still grateful, as I'm sure everyone on this forum is.
As for the notion that a g-spot doesn't exist, I find that as absurd as saying men don't get off on porn. There's no controversy, just ignorance. That's just my opinion, though.
07/01/2009
Total posts: 9
Unique posters: 8