but if it's with (gender here) it doesn't count!

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but if it's with (gender here) it doesn't count!

Owl Identified Owl Identified
I'm sure many of us, whether bisexual/pan/queer-ide ntified or not, have heard people make statements like the one in my subject line. A scenario: A bisexual woman is in an otherwise monogamous relationship with a straight man. HOWEVER one or both of them contends that if the woman in question has sex with another woman it's within bounds or "doesn't count". I've heard a whole host of reasons that justify this kind of reasoning such as the other woman is somehow not threatening to the man simply by virtue of not being the same gender, or that the other woman can fulfill needs that the man can't.

I am queer-identified. My romantic and sexual partners have been a mixed gender group, and I am now in a long term relationship with a man. We are in an open relationship in which I can opt to have sex with other women (or men) if I choose, but he also has the option of having sex with other women (or men) if he desires. For me the one-sided "open" thing on the grounds of bisexuality being some sort of "special" case is a little problematic.

So what do you all think of bisexuality being grounds for one-sided "openness" in relationships that are otherwise embrace a fairly monogamous lifestyle? You can select more than one on this, and of course there will probably be lots of shades of grey so please comment with your own answer if it's not provided. Thanks!
Answers (public voting - your screen name will appear in the results):
having a bisexual partner necessitates some level of openness
Lady Marmelade , AmberM , Nora , Sangsara , nori
5
having a bisexual partner does not necessitate any level of openness
Sir , EffinSara , El-Jaro , deceased , MuffysPinguLove , Tsu Ten Kaku , Twist Shimmy , Luscious Lily , Femme Mystique , LikeSunshineDust , Britni TheVadgeWig , Johndoe , mizztcasa , Raven , crazydaisy , Darling Dove , NY Toyfan , Angel deSanguine , Kinky Skier , Lynk , lindsay28 , joaniedark , Keeshia , oliverHyde , Ciao. , Midway through , P'Gell , Darling Jen , DeliciousSurprise , Liz , Lady Venus , Kinkyquing , Pleasure Piratess , Wiggles , sexysweetieshan , Jenniae09 , PassionQT , clp , Selective Sensualist , null , Madeira , s0fuckm3 , Rainbow Boy , JPito , EndlessFrost , chaos4fun , LittleBoPeep , Littlethree (Eddie Anal) , meganthomas , Wiley Festizio , Persephone Nightmare , Phoenix77 , Deamy , Tart , Trashley , Maitreya , Avalee , grrltalk , Milk & Honey , Faith , gothikstars , Beaners , CynicallyYours , Taylor , BBW Talks Toys , Airekah , Persephone's Addiction , the bedroom blogger , anonymouse , pinkzombie , deae04 , That Guy , Lady Marmelade , NymphetamineKiss , zeebot , navigator-d , dhig , kawigrl , PussyGalore , sixfootsex , vanillaSpice , BadassFatass , ninaspinkturtle , thegoldilocksincident , Totogrl , Danielle1220 , Curves , neon , miss-miss , joja , ellejay , sassyNsensual , MaryExy , REDRUM , cburger , Meeg , Jenyana , ckunit121 , thebest , MeliPixie , Gingy , midnightcaresses , oneeyedoctopus , PeachieClean , C.C. , Incendiaire , Diabolical Kitty , richsam , PirateofPenance , vegweg , DarthTaco , ghalik , Ice1 , thisisadeletedaccount , Stinkytofu10 , britanny0620 , SouthernBelle , SubmissiveFeminist , humblepie , treefrog88 , PinkiePie , vitriolicvertigo , ChloeJaded , cryinglightning86 , pestilence , hanjonatan , HannahPanda , Modern^Spank^Anthem
128
if there is openness, both partners should adhere to identical "rules"
Sir , El-Jaro , deceased , MuffysPinguLove , Tsu Ten Kaku , Twist Shimmy , LikeSunshineDust , Britni TheVadgeWig , Johndoe , RosesThorns , Kinky Skier , Lynk , Sundae , Jul!a , oliverHyde , P'Gell , Darling Jen , Kinkyquing , Pleasure Piratess , sexysweetieshan , Jenniae09 , Just Jen , Selective Sensualist , s0fuckm3 , JPito , EndlessFrost , LittleBoPeep , Littlethree (Eddie Anal) , Wiley Festizio , SexyySarah , Persephone Nightmare , Phoenix77 , Deamy , leatherlover , tits only , Trashley , Maitreya , Avalee , Blinker , Milk & Honey , celibacysucks , CynicallyYours , Airekah , the bedroom blogger , anonymouse , TheNuTz , deae04 , sweet seduction , Lady Marmelade , zeebot , kawigrl , Miss Madeline , vanillaSpice , ninaspinkturtle , aBeastlyLittleThing , Totogrl , Danielle1220 , eggiweg , np702 , Awby , miss-miss , MaryExy , REDRUM , ♥ Amanda ♥ , Meeg , Dawn (Lilac Distraction) , Jenyana , kelaaa33wish , MJ1337 , thebest , AmberM , MeliPixie , PeachieClean , Amelia Stone , Diabolical Kitty , Nora , vegweg , DarthTaco , ghalik , Ice1 , iabicpl09 , Mielikki , britanny0620 , Sangsara , SouthernBelle , SubmissiveFeminist , MaeGal , treefrog88 , PinkiePie , lukas24 , peachmarie , omgrun , ChloeJaded , cryinglightning86 , hanjonatan
95
if there is openness, "rules" for partners do not have to be at all identical
Sir , EffinSara , deceased , MuffysPinguLove , LicentiouslyYours , Britni TheVadgeWig , Raven , crazydaisy , Airen Wolf , KinkyShay , joaniedark , Ciao. , Carrie Ann , inbarati , Garbage Juice , clp , null , EndlessFrost , chaos4fun , meganthomas , Phoenix77 , Trashley , BooBadKittyFunk , grrltalk , Kimbertrees , That Guy , Lady Marmelade , NymphetamineKiss , BadassFatass , PinkPedal , miss-miss , joja , Kkay , sweetdee , MJ1337 , oneeyedoctopus , C.C. , Incendiaire , Arosa Amore , thisisadeletedaccount , humblepie , vitriolicvertigo
42
other
Sir , EffinSara , Britni TheVadgeWig , RosesThorns , GNGenie , ~LaUr3n~ , Naughty Student , PassionQT , CutiePatootie , Tart , BooBadKittyFunk , Fishie Princess , BBW Talks Toys , Lady Marmelade , Akanzi , Vuvu , RammaJamma , ChicaPrize , VanillaCupcake , Kkay , PirateofPenance , sleepyjeanne , nori , pestilence
24
Total votes: 294 (182 voters)
Poll is closed
11/27/2009
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Sir Sir
I am not fully understanding the question. But to what I do understand, just because a person's bisexual doesn't mean that they need or are allowed to be in an open relationship. Every relationship is different, and sexual orientation has nothing to do with whether a relationship is open or not.
11/27/2009
Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
I am not fully understanding the question. But to what I do understand, just because a person's bisexual doesn't mean that they need or are allowed to be in an open relationship. Every relationship is different, and sexual orientation has ...
Also, I chose both choices of rules because one of the choices didn't say that the partners needed to adhere to them, which I feel that both partners, in any relationship, should adhere to rules and guidelines or general expectations that the people involved may have of each other.
11/27/2009
EffinSara EffinSara
I don't think I could handle having a truly open relationship. I wouldn't do well if my partner was free to have sex with other people. My long-term partners have always known this. But if a male partner says it's okay for me to play with girls, and it truly doesn't bother him, I don't see that as being problematic. Some of my male partners in the past have liked the idea of me playing with girls and got great enjoyment out of imagining me with them. I will never ask for or insist upon this sort of freedom, though. I'm perfectly content just being with my partner, whatever the gender.
11/27/2009
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
I am not fully understanding the question. But to what I do understand, just because a person's bisexual doesn't mean that they need or are allowed to be in an open relationship. Every relationship is different, and sexual orientation has ...
I agree with you, but I've definitely heard a lot of people use this as a justification. I think it's a kind of flimsy defense, I'm just curious to see what others think.
11/27/2009
Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
I agree with you, but I've definitely heard a lot of people use this as a justification. I think it's a kind of flimsy defense, I'm just curious to see what others think.
Ahh, alright. I understand what you mean completely.
11/27/2009
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Also, I chose both choices of rules because one of the choices didn't say that the partners needed to adhere to them, which I feel that both partners, in any relationship, should adhere to rules and guidelines or general expectations that the ...
I guess I felt it was implied. Choices 3 and 4 are basically to this effect: should the "rules" about openness be the same or different for each partner? In other words, does being bisexual necessarily mean you cannot or ought not abide the same rules as your partner?

Obviously this doesn't take into account a straight partner that doesn't WANT to abide the same rules. Example: a straight male doesn't mind if his bisexual female partner fools around on the side but has no desire to do so himself. I guess my question was more to the point of if it's okay for a bisexual partner to do something, should the option be there for a straight partner?
11/27/2009
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by EffinSara
I don't think I could handle having a truly open relationship. I wouldn't do well if my partner was free to have sex with other people. My long-term partners have always known this. But if a male partner says it's okay for me to play ...
My question to you would be this though: do you feel these male partners would have let you play with other males?

For every couple it's different, and perhaps your male partners wouldn't have cared no matter what the gender was. However it's the double standard that occurs in a lot of relationships that is problematic to me. Obviously if both partners are happy there's no problem for that relationship, but in a larger sense the implication seems to be that female-female couplings are somehow "not threatening" and "don't count". To me it's that line of reasoning that underlies a lot of the messed up things in the world today, such as heterosexism and homophobia.
11/27/2009
Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
I guess I felt it was implied. Choices 3 and 4 are basically to this effect: should the "rules" about openness be the same or different for each partner? In other words, does being bisexual necessarily mean you cannot or ought not abide the ...
Alright, then. I understand that, too. I believe that it depends on the relationship, like I said before, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or amount of people involved. Whatever the people involved feel works, then that's whatever goes. But in my case, if I was ever to have open relationships again (which I definitely am not planning to), I would demand abidance to the rules and respect my partner(s) by abiding by agreed upon rules as well. What I find in most open relationships is that being secretive is a bad thing, because honesty is one of the most important things in any relationship, open or otherwise.
11/27/2009
EffinSara EffinSara
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
My question to you would be this though: do you feel these male partners would have let you play with other males?

For every couple it's different, and perhaps your male partners wouldn't have cared no matter what the gender was. ...
No, they wouldn't have. This doesn't bother me because playing with other males is not something I'd be interested in. Playing with other females is something I'm only marginally interested in and is never something I pursue actively.
11/27/2009
Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Well, generally, I think each couple needs to set down rules that work for them. For most couples, identical rules are easier to lay down and comprehend but some couples may be able to work with nonequivalent rules just as well. Not me but I see it as possible. And if a couple feels like they have to say "It's not cheating because of gender," then let them have at it but it is a crappy way to justify it rather than just saying "it's not cheating because we've discussed it and are okay with it" or something. Furthermore, I think this rule can devalue someone as a human being. "Sex with you doesn't 'count' because you're a man [or woman]." Because that's not douchey, at all.

For me, personally, there is no way having sex with anyone else outside my monogamous marriage without prior consent from my husband isn't cheating. To clarify, as someone who sees both males and females as potential partners, it doesn't make extramarital sex any worse or better, depending on gender so I would have to agree that excuse does not sit well with me. Also, prior consent means on an individual basis.

I think it's an interesting question you asked because most of the time, I've heard this excuse used by (self-identified) straight people who are really just cheating on their SOs and have no level up openness about it at all. So to put it in the context of a bisexual and open relationship is eye opening to me because I hadn't thought of that aspect, yet is limiting because you are ignoring all others. In fact, I'm not even sure your subject line applies to your questions - which is why I didn't vote.
11/27/2009
deceased deceased
That's like Bill Clinton getting a hummer and claiming its not sex. It's not the gender you cheat with, diesn't matter if I get a blowjob from some gal and then assbang a guy from the gym. Infidelity is infidelity, its not gender dependant. It's like negating the respect and humanity of one gender by saying "Oh honey it didn't count because it was with one of the guys from work."
11/28/2009
Domineight Domineight
While I think its blatantly heterosexist...it wouldn't keep me from sleeping with a girl who's boyfriend only "lets" her sleep with women.

I'm indignant, as you know, but you know...might as well benefit from it.
01/03/2010
deceased deceased
oops...hitthe wrong button. The rules should apply equally.
01/22/2010
NY Toyfan NY Toyfan
Bisexual is a very broad term and it means different things to different people. However, I don't think there is anything about it that absolutely requires an open relationship. I think you have to be open with your partner about your feelings, but I also think the same rules apply in any relationship. If your partner is not fine with you sleeping with other people (male or female), your choices are to honor that, leave the relationship or go behind his or her back. If you have been open with your partner about being bisexual in the first place, you should be able to face the question without going behind his or her back.
01/22/2010
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
I prefer to use "definition and foundation" of a relationship rather than rules and regulations but yes if they are talked about fully and understood by all parties then they don't necessarily have to be equal but they should be followed. If a partner finds that a definition or foundation no longer fits then a new negotiation is needed....not a flimsy excuse to cheat.

None of us is Bi but while my husband loves to watch and have me participate with his playmates, our life partner worries that my heart will get all involved and he'll have to share my attention further than he already does. He knows that while I do not identify as Bi I have had a love affair with another woman that I played with lightly but mostly it was a hinge type threesome with Sigel. So Arch worries but allows me the freedom he is comfortable with and so far that works for us. We have an agreement that if or when that changes we'll renegotiate the boundaries. As far as he is concerned any person is a potential threat regardless of their gender!
01/23/2010
Keeshia Keeshia
Definitely doesn't mean there has to be a degree of openness. I am bi and my husband is the only person I am with and vice versa. Definitely couldn't have an open relationship of any sort with him.
04/10/2010
Ciao. Ciao.
Bisexuality doesn't mean a relationship needs to be open, and an open relationship doesn't need to have evenly applied rules unless that's what the couple wants. As long as everything is understood and fair between the two partners there are no hard and fast rules that should apply to everyone. The key rule in our relationship is communication about desires and what's going on, as long as we're both communicating and consenting no big deal. She's bi, I'm a little curious, we've explored open relationship possibilities a little but haven't really jumped into it full on.
07/24/2010
P'Gell P'Gell
I'm het, but I have been in a Open Relationship, and from what I have experienced, the level of Openess should never be "assumed" needs to be discussed and should be equal with both partners.

I don't think one's orientation matters, when it comes to seeing other people, no matter how your partner or yourself identify sexually. What's good for the goose is good for the goose, or the gander, or the gandress, or the.....you know what I mean.
07/24/2010
Darling Jen Darling Jen
I've had people try to tell me that I can never be in a happy, successful monogamous relationship because of my bisexual "tendencies". They argued that bisexuality MEANS I need both and won't, and can't, choose one partner. It's pretty insulting.

Everyone is different of course, and open relationships can be healthy and happy too. But I think it's an ideological thing and NOT an orientation thing. And it should be equal for both partners or there's a power struggle.

I try to compare it to people's other preferences. Do you like blondes? Yes. Do you like brunettes? Yes. Does that means you have to have both to be happy and you will never be satisfied with just one person? Hell no. It just means you have options and like more than one thing.

Most importantly you have to do what makes YOU happy and feel good.
07/24/2010
~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
It absolutely is not a special case in any way. Same rules apply. You don't get to play with the same sex just because you want to and have it not be cheating. If my partner were bi, it would be the same hurt with either sex. And if he is bi and choose not to engage in being with a guy in any way it doens't give me the right to do something with a women and expect it not to be cheating even if I am straight...
07/24/2010
Blinker Blinker
I [italic] think I understand your question. Kind of like this: if a woman who is in a monogamous relationship with a man, sleeps with a woman, it isn't considered cheating usually? Because I've come across several people who think this. My guy's best friend encourages me and his girlfriend to make out constantly. I went through a phase when I did in fact hook up with a few girls (maybe I am bi...it's a question I wonder about constantly)...but I wouldn't do it now because I see it as infidelity because I am in a monogamous relationship. My owner feels the same way. But so many people, mostly men, say it doesn't count as "cheating" if their girls hook up with other women. I think that's bullshit to say cheating only counts if you sleep with a man (or it doesn't count as cheating if the male in a straight monogamous relationship cheats on his girl with another guy). Fucking double standards!

I hope this is what you meant, SL&L. If not, then I'm sorry for mucking up your original intent
07/26/2010
inbarati inbarati
I don't think the rules for both partners have to be identical *if* both partners agree ahead of time. I have however been in situations several times where my partner tried to change the rules mid-game so to speak, and that's less than cool. Relationships can evolve, but if they're evolving suddenly because someone is having a jealous attack, let me tell you about the myriad of ways that won't end well. *wry smile*
07/26/2010
Garbage Juice Garbage Juice
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
I'm sure many of us, whether bisexual/pan/queer-ide ntified or not, have heard people make statements like the one in my subject line. A scenario: A bisexual woman is in an otherwise monogamous relationship with a straight man. HOWEVER one or ...
The only all-encompassing rule that we can approach relationships with is "follow the rules." Many, or perhaps most relationships probably require equality in the rules that each partner has to follow (as human beings can be a jealous lot. Even bisexuals!!!) However, if both partners agree outwardly and inwardly with any kind of rules- equal to completely unfair- then those are the rules that they have found work for that relationship. Breaking established rules is the only cause of problems.

Unless, of course, a participant has agreed to something they did not really feel comfortable with in the first place. Honesty, people!
08/30/2010
Naughty Student Naughty Student
My man knows that I have had experiences with women in the past before we had been together and it always intrigued him. He even proposed a threesome but it is easier said then done(if you want to maintain a good relationship afterwards). So for us we are strictly monogamous.
08/30/2010
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by Blinker
I [italic] think I understand your question. Kind of like this: if a woman who is in a monogamous relationship with a man, sleeps with a woman, it isn't considered cheating usually? Because I've come across several people who think this. My ...
Nope, that's exactly what I meant! It's something that I've always found really offensive; most of my relationships (nearly all) have been with women. When a man tells his partner (woman) that he doesn't mind her hooking up with another woman, but with a man it's a different story? Just basically means "doesn't count between women, that's not real sex, it can't be as meaningful as what I do" like they have nothing to worry about. Reeeeally upsets me. Additionally, if I had a dime for everytime some presumptuous bro took it upon himself to inform me that two women having sex wasn't *actually* sex I could buy an island and live in isolation from that ignorance
08/30/2010
PassionQT PassionQT
Regardless of who is bi, if a couple decides to open their relationship, whether it be one-sided or single-sided, the offer of dual openness 'should' be available to both sides, even for the straight half. It's just an offer, not necessarily assuming that the heterosexual half will even WANT to act on it, but I think it shows a measure of fairness, trust, and equality in a relationship.

Having been in the lifestyle and chatting with other individuals, I hear all sorts of stuff that doesn't make sense to me. Straight men saying that they play without their wife, but she can't do anything without him, not even with another woman,etc..My bi husband was initially the same way, and guess who had the first emotional relationship outside of our marriage? HIM! I put him in his place pronto and said "what's good for the goose is for good for the gander". We now have a very successful, open relationship, but it takes some re-wiring and if you don't do it carefully, the whole 'circuit' can go bad. I've gone months without having sex with someone else and I'm perfectly fine with that, so it's not a contest either. But it's nice to know if I want to go out with a friend, he is supportive. That's all I ask.

I know of one couple where the wife of a bi-male says that he is 'all she needs in a man', so she doesn't feel the need to be with other men. When I asked her how he would feel if she had a special friend, she said it wouldn't fly so well with him. Now, I personally think that is unfair, especially since her husband does have an emotional an sexual connection with his boyfriend; however, if that is their arrangement and it works for them, then so be it. It's going to be different for every couple. I just hate to see bisexuality as a justification for one person to get more than the other.

A drag queen at a show once said that bisexuals are the most selfish, because they want both, but they can't stand to share.
09/01/2010
clp clp
This does bring up an interesting subject, and reading through the responses has been pretty great. People certainly feel strongly on this.

Regardless of orientation, an open relationship must come with rules. I am a bisexual woman that is with a heterosexual male--that doesn't mean that I am automatically allowed or given space to play with males or females. While he doesn't feel as threatened with the idea of me with girls over boys, my doing so with either would mean a breach in trust and probably the end of the relationship. At this point in time, we are not ready to dabble in additional players.

It is interesting to think how I would react, though, if he were to 'experiment' with another man. I think that would be opening a completely new can of worms.
09/01/2010
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by PassionQT
Regardless of who is bi, if a couple decides to open their relationship, whether it be one-sided or single-sided, the offer of dual openness 'should' be available to both sides, even for the straight half. It's just an offer, not ...
Yeah, what that drag queen said is a pretty ugly and messed up stereotype about bisexual, pansexual or queer folks that don't stick to just one thing. Ugly, ignorant, but surprisingly common.

You bring up an interesting point, however, which is when bisexual, pansexual, queer people exploit double standards for their own benefit, but in doing so reinforce these shitty stereotypes and double standards. Obviously that's every person's own prerogative, but it definitely has consequences, many of them negative.
09/01/2010
CutiePatootie CutiePatootie
This is a bumpy road for each individual relationship. He's straight and I had only been "experimenting" with him in threesomes and through our relationship have realized that I'm bi. I crave women as does he so we have a set rule that it works best when we all play together, it's just part of what our relationship is. We currently have a "girlfriend" (a fantasy often talked about but never believed it would happen) and he's begining to encourage me to play with her when he's out of town. I think it's because he knows he's not out of the picture in any way and she likes being with both of us, not just one or the other.

So I put "other" because there's not one side or the other that's "open" per se. We take each individual situation and dicuss it before hand. We'd hate for something that we enjoy to ruin our marriage.
10/14/2010
Total posts: 76
Unique posters: 60