Really, Eden? Nonbinary people exist.

treehugger treehugger
So there's this new EF survey (link) and it sounds pretty okay, four questions, and you get points.
But the first question is "What gender do you identify with?"
And the only options are Male or Female.
I am not impressed.
06/13/2013
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Ansley Ansley
Hey, you don't have to answer the first question, but please take note that it says "identify" with. Answering three out of the four questions still earns points.
06/13/2013
Lady of the Lab Lady of the Lab
"...please take note that it says "identify" with". That's what treehugger did, ze took note that the choices were limited to either female or male. There are other gender identies that exist (such as genderqueer, trans*, etc.). Even if it's not mandatory, it would be appreciated to have more choices, even if it was an 'Other' option.
06/13/2013
bratcat bratcat
The thing is this user brings up a good point. Even having an other or non-specific option would be more inclusive for those who do not identify with the binary genders.
A lot of community polls are geard toward the binary, making people like myself, refrain from often wanting to answer those questions. Just by simply including an option outside of the binary makes people feel more welcomed and included.
06/13/2013
PropertyOfPotter PropertyOfPotter
I think it would be lengthy and difficult to include every option that someone could identify with, but having male, female, and other would seem like a good option. I imagine it's frustrating to not have at least an 'other' for those that don't fit into one of the two categories.
06/13/2013
alextge alextge
Quote:
Originally posted by treehugger
So there's this new EF survey (link) and it sounds pretty okay, four questions, and you get points.
But the first question is "What gender do you identify with?"
And the only options are Male or Female.
I am not impressed. ... More
It's a very quick and dirty survey, I imagine they don't need many specifics. Just want to know if they should market certain items towards more masculine or feminine customers
06/13/2013
KatPawz2003 KatPawz2003
Quote:
Originally posted by alextge
It's a very quick and dirty survey, I imagine they don't need many specifics. Just want to know if they should market certain items towards more masculine or feminine customers
I have a friend who identifies as male but has female anatomy with no desire to get a sex change. Male oriented toys such as masturbators would not work in this situation as the anatomy does not agree with the identity. By having an other option it would let them know that there is a demand for more gender neutral toys which would work for anyone.
06/13/2013
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by KatPawz2003
I have a friend who identifies as male but has female anatomy with no desire to get a sex change. Male oriented toys such as masturbators would not work in this situation as the anatomy does not agree with the identity. By having an other option it ... More
Just out of curiosity, how would you define "gender-neutral sex toys"?
06/14/2013
MrWill MrWill
Quote:
Originally posted by treehugger
So there's this new EF survey (link) and it sounds pretty okay, four questions, and you get points.
But the first question is "What gender do you identify with?"
And the only options are Male or Female.
I am not impressed. ... More
You know what? I've typed about 15 responses to this and walked away so as to not get in trouble, but now.. I don't care. Honestly.. I don't.

I get it, really.. I do, as I'm sure most of the community members do. We cisgender people occasionally make a mistake while writing something or saying something. It happens. We are human. We are going to fuck up sometimes.

You are human too right? You've fucked up before right?

Drop the holier than thou, "I'm so angry" crap. Seriously. You can be frustrated.. but coming at someone all venom and anger isn't going to accomplish much.

Let's be constructive about things instead of pouting and throwing fits over things. Going and sitting in the corner with a frowny face on while you cross your arms and huff everytime someone looks at you doesn't help solve a problem.

So: Real quick, because I know for sure it is coming.. Flag me. Stormy, I'm sorry.. and I'll take whatever punishment is coming but seriously.. It's getting old. I'm all for fighting for everyone's equal sexual rights.. but since all I ever see is a whole lot of poor pitiful me.. I have to say something. Besides, why come in and start a big foul up over this when A) It was done when the survey first went out over a month ago.. and B) You aren't even coming back to constructively work towards a resolution.

/rant
  •   (4)
    I am personally offended by this
  •   (2)
    This is unacceptable / Against the Expectations of Conduct
06/14/2013
Pixel Pixel
Quote:
Originally posted by Lady of the Lab
"...please take note that it says "identify" with". That's what treehugger did, ze took note that the choices were limited to either female or male. There are other gender identies that exist (such as genderqueer, trans*, ... More
Yeah, I ID as genderqueer, and would have loved an 'other' choice.
06/14/2013
Pierced Blaqk Skies Pierced Blaqk Skies
I too identify as genderqueer and things like that survey do make me hesitate sometimes. :/

I would rather have an 'other' than just male/female. Other is inclusive to everyone else in the gender spectrum.
06/14/2013
TheirPet TheirPet
I second the motion since I identify with 'other' as well.
06/14/2013
treehugger treehugger
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWill
You know what? I've typed about 15 responses to this and walked away so as to not get in trouble, but now.. I don't care. Honestly.. I don't. I get it, really.. I do, as I'm sure most of the community members do. We cisgender people ... More
I'm... not sure where you got the "I'm so angry" part of my post. I'm more tired than anything.
I understand mistakes, but as you said, "it was done when the survey first went out over a month ago", so shouldn't it be fixed by now in that case? (I didn't realize it wasn't a new survey, actually, I was just notified of it now.)
And I'm not "coming back to constructively work towards a resolution"?
I've sent an email to Eden staff about this.
I agree with most replies in this thread, an "other" option would work just fine. I don't think this is something that needs to be solved with a brand new solution, just another option added in a survey.
06/14/2013
MrWill MrWill
Quote:
Originally posted by treehugger
I'm... not sure where you got the "I'm so angry" part of my post. I'm more tired than anything.
I understand mistakes, but as you said, "it was done when the survey first went out over a month ago", so ... More
My point is this: Every time someone mis-steps about anything to do with the Trans rights movement.. It is almost NEVER handled constructively. Usually, there are lots of rants about how offended people are. Humanity is offensive. We are a like planetary parasite. If it wasn't the Trans rights movement, it would be race, if it wasn't race it would be women's rights, if it wasn't women's rights it would be where people came from.

You know how stuff gets done? People put their head down and nose to the grindstone and keep toiling through whatever problems there are and eventually, however slowly... things change. You can't honestly expect thousands of years of societal norms to be brushed away in a matter of decades.


"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

I'm just saying... consider a different approach. You get sent a survey worth $10.00 worth of points, and come to the forums pouring a complaint here. All that is going to happen here is a lot of boo-boo kissing and agreeing/disagreeing.

I think you did the right thing contacting the management, as it is the only way you can really expect progress here. I applaud that you actually did so, and you should keep working toward recognition of your sexual identity.. whatever that may be.


On that note: Peace, Namaste, Buenos Noches, Adieu. I've said my piece and I'm out.
06/14/2013
bratcat bratcat
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWill
My point is this: Every time someone mis-steps about anything to do with the Trans rights movement.. It is almost NEVER handled constructively. Usually, there are lots of rants about how offended people are. Humanity is offensive. We are a like ... More
Your response to this whole thing is rather hostile, and assuming you are a white het cis male falling outside any sort of marginalized group it may be hard to see how people within the minority (ie, queers, women, and people of color) are angry about constantly talking about the same issues over and over. being angry about these types of things is a totally okay and reasonable response to oppression.

This person was upset and rightfully so, and shared those feelings with the community, to which you assumed they did nothing more than "complain." However by having what would be considered an open discussion about sexual identity and gender norms, by pointing out that the EF survey was non-inclusive, lead to constructive feedback on the subject.

Yes, we are all human and fuck up once in a while, but all should be open to cirtizim when they do so should be welcomed. Again, thats exactally what tree hugger did. I dont agree that there was any sort of "holier than thou" approach to this, and yet you seem to have taken this more as a personal attack and your responses seem more of a snuff than considering why these people are legitimately angry and why that is.

I dont know anyone in any sort of movement who by keeping "their head down and nose to the grindstone and keep toiling through whatever problems there are" having anything change for them. I mean if you want we can apply this to the abolishment of slavery and jim crow. The only reason these things ever changed is because people voice their option, they kept doing so, they we're angry and they show their anger, and they kept fighting. And even even after Brown v. Board of Education people of color had to still fight for equal rights, it wasn't until 4 years after that rosa parks was protesting segregation laws that federal court already deemed unconstitutional, and it was until 10 years later did any real equality come about. This did not happen because these people "toiling through whatever problems," it was because they kept demanding the same thing over and over and over until eventually poc's actually gained some real rights within states.

The attitude you've exhibited (unlike anything i've ever seen of you before, and honestly its very disheartening because i really enjoy/admire you) is not really the most attractive and hind of hostil to say the least. I understand you are sharing your opinion and your current frustrations as is your right to do but you have to imagine putting the shoe on the other foot, and understand just how hard it is for a disenfranchised group of people, such an non-identifying folk to go about a day to day.

Also please dont think this is an attack on your person on any thing like such, but from the way you've stated your last two responses i felt the need to explain my thoughts and feelings on the situation - and i want to avoid any sort of hostility or hurt feelings in the matter.
06/15/2013
sunflower sunflower
I guess it's like that because it was for marketing purposes. Like "does our audience want g-spot dildos or fleshlights". It was oversimplified maybe. I think Eden has been really inclusive so far, with the trans* forum and a 'fill in the blank' for gender. I guess they made a mistake with this.
06/16/2013
bog bog
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWill
My point is this: Every time someone mis-steps about anything to do with the Trans rights movement.. It is almost NEVER handled constructively. Usually, there are lots of rants about how offended people are. Humanity is offensive. We are a like ... More
What part of treehugger's comment wasn't constructive? This person politely suggested another option for gender, like "other," for the survey. They identified a problem and suggested a solution. Isn't this a textbook example of a constructive reaction to a problem?
06/16/2013
bayosgirl bayosgirl
I feel like Eden does a really superb job in general of recognizing the needs of transgender and non-straight people. I don't think anyone needs to get upset about an arbitrary mistake. Let's try not to just see the forest for the trees..
06/16/2013
lexxxmoonchild lexxxmoonchild
It's not really an arbitrary mistake though, visibility is crucial and Eden already acknowledges non-binary gender identities in other areas. Honestly I'm unhappy with the direction this thread has gone in and it makes me feel unsafe. Really messed up that when one person vents their frustration about feeling left out there are people coming in here putting the whole trans* rights movement on trial.
06/17/2013
Ansley Ansley
There's a tendency to use sarcasm and words that have a negative overtone to them by their general definition when people are bringing issues to light. Not just here, but everywhere. I think this is the point MrWill was trying to make. The post very simply could have read:

"Hey so Eden has this new survey, and it only has two genders listed, what gives? Why not an "other" option for those who identify as neither.

Truthfully the matter was discussed at great length before the survey was released and we felt like having an "other" option was more exclusionary than inclusive. We were damned if we did, and damned if we didn't.
06/19/2013
Ansley Ansley
And on that note:

The survey has been updated with an "other" option. Unfortunately, if you've already answered one way or another, you cannot change the answer as this is a system limitation as the data is already archived.
06/19/2013
PropertyOfPotter PropertyOfPotter
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
And on that note:

The survey has been updated with an "other" option. Unfortunately, if you've already answered one way or another, you cannot change the answer as this is a system limitation as the data is already archived.
I think everyone can appreciate this! Thanks for putting in the effort to make it work better for everyone!
06/19/2013
Hummingbird Hummingbird
As one who used to work in a department where surveys were created I can only add that they are generated to look for specific input, usually why certain questions are phrased on any survey.
06/19/2013
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Hummingbird
As one who used to work in a department where surveys were created I can only add that they are generated to look for specific input, usually why certain questions are phrased on any survey.
Yep. There is also the case that sex toys are designed to stimulate "sexual organs" irrelevant of gender concepts (in most cases, obviously this isn't the case for toys designed for gender presentation/play).
06/19/2013
TransMarc TransMarc
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWill
You know what? I've typed about 15 responses to this and walked away so as to not get in trouble, but now.. I don't care. Honestly.. I don't. I get it, really.. I do, as I'm sure most of the community members do. We cisgender people ... More
I don't even understand why you react like that because someone brings up a problem. It does not mean they think they never fuck up or are holier than you. At least they started the discussion and maybe they're too stressed or busy to come back. Whereas you just derail the discussion. I don't even see venom in their post, just because it's short, honest and straight to the point doesn't mean it's aggressive.
06/22/2013
TJax TJax
Limited marketing budget gives limited marketing analytics. I expect this was done on a shoestring budget (as we all know the troubles that are going on around here).
06/23/2013
mailroomorder mailroomorder
Quote:
Originally posted by treehugger
So there's this new EF survey (link) and it sounds pretty okay, four questions, and you get points.
But the first question is "What gender do you identify with?"
And the only options are Male or Female.
I am not impressed. ... More
I agree. There should be more options. Or no options.
06/23/2013
a whole lot of birds. a whole lot of birds.
Quote:
Originally posted by treehugger
So there's this new EF survey (link) and it sounds pretty okay, four questions, and you get points.
But the first question is "What gender do you identify with?"
And the only options are Male or Female.
I am not impressed. ... More
i identify as a bird. can i have that be an option too.
  •   (2)
    I am personally offended by this
06/23/2013
a whole lot of birds. a whole lot of birds.
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWill
My point is this: Every time someone mis-steps about anything to do with the Trans rights movement.. It is almost NEVER handled constructively. Usually, there are lots of rants about how offended people are. Humanity is offensive. We are a like ... More
calm down there, brother. i feel a lot of negativity radiating thru your post and into my sacred internet. which therefore infiltrates my home because i do have a computer.
  •   (1)
    I am personally offended by this
  •   (1)
    This is unacceptable / Against the Expectations of Conduct
06/23/2013
TransGuy14 TransGuy14
That always irks me. Definitely need more options
07/02/2013
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Total posts: 35
Unique posters: 26