Body Modification vs. Mutilation Survey PLEASE DO!

Contributor: Selective Sensualist Selective Sensualist
On your survey, I responded that everything -- except for dying the hair and adding false fingernails -- is mutilation. I also responded that NONE of your examples on the survey should be illegal.

I do not have a negative opinion of anyone CHOOSING (or needing) to change or modify his or her body's natural state. Of course, INFORMED consent is of utmost importance any time anyone makes a decision about his or her body. And it is also important to make certain that anyone choosing to undergo major mutilation (i.e., any type of optional surgery) is of sound mind -- otherwise, s/he cannot really give informed consent).

I take a simple biological approach to determining whether anything done to the body is "mutilation." My definition has zero moral or social meaning attached; so, the term "mutilation," used in this sense, does not carry a strong sense of negativity for me because I just do not see much difference between using the term mutilation versus body modification. It is all semantics. People just respond strongly to the use of the word "mutilation." (But there are various levels and degrees of mutilation.)

Body "modification" is purely a social term to denote a culturally-acceptable form of mutilation that is considered attractive or useful (or even necessary) to that particular culture or individual. In some cultures, even female genital mutilation could be considered a "body modification" (much to our horror -- but this topic is worthy of its own discussion and is not included on your list of examples).

In determining whether or not something is a "mutilation" to the body, I ask whether or not the body's natural state is affected (living cells, that is -- not dead cells, such as hair or fingernails). In other words, will any cells of the body have to recover and heal from the procedure? This is where the "range" and differing "levels" (or degrees) of mutilation that I discussed earlier weigh in: even if the body can completely heal the assault upon it (a cut, a bruise, etc.), it still suffered from a mutilation, albeit a minor one. An amputated leg permanently alters the body (though the incision itself heals) and is thus a much more severe mutilation.

Also, I do not categorize something as a mutilation based solely upon permanence. I think it is more useful to classify mutilations as minor or major (or quite mild versus severe), based upon a continuum and upon how much the mutilation impacts the body's well-being and function. But even that can get a bit sticky. Would you say that an amputated leg decreased a body's well-being and function if it was removed to save the person's life (i.e., in a life-threatening case of Peripheral Artery Disease -- this actually happened to a close family member and he chose to die rather than to amputate a gangrenous leg, even though an amputated leg would have INCREASED his body's ability to function and allowed him to live, thus increasing his overall body's well-being)?

Overall, I would define a simple piercing as a "mutilation," just as I would consider plastic surgery (which I have no problem admitting that I have had) a mutilation. Even a life-saving surgery is a mutilation. It is an assault upon the body (albeit a life-saving one) from which the body must recover. The body also has to recover and heal from piercings and tattoos. Heck, even the marks left upon my back from a good back-scratching are something from which my body must recover and could technically be considered "mutilations."

The bottom line: I believe that one has the right to make decisions about one's own body, so long as it does not impact or harm any other person without that person's consent (example: one conjoined twin's wishes should not be honored without considering the wishes of the other, just as an extreme example). And . . . it is simply impossible for anyone to live one's life and avoid any form of mutilation. But mutilation is not necessarily an evil -- it can be a vehicle for delivering many positive things (such as surgery, just as one example -- or even something as simple and basic as self-expression).
12/16/2010
Contributor: joja joja
I would only call something "mutilation" if it negatively impacts the way a body part - including the mind - functions. I find that my reaction to plastic surgery is significantly more negative than that to other body modification, though I don't have a concrete theory on why yet. I suppose it's a false assumption that everyone who gets plastic surgery does it because of low self-esteem, but it still really bothers me.
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by leatherlover
Amputating a perfectly good part of your body in that sense is just really weird. It isn't getting a tattoo, which could be removed, or a piercing, which can definitely be removed. It is removing a part of you body which you can never have again, ... more
But isn't it your right to do what you want to your body? Isn't it just like removing your hair or nails, or donating a kidney?

I'm being devil's advocate.
12/16/2010
Contributor: ToyTimeTim ToyTimeTim
Interesting survey. I have always been of the mind that it is your body, if you want to do that kind of stuff, and are of sound mind, go right ahead.
12/16/2010
Contributor: Kindred Kindred
I responded that none on the list is mutilation and none should be illegal.

My perspective is one of being a veterinarian. I have seen many "procedures" done to animals that are considered cosmetic (such as ear cropping and tail docking) that serve no medical purpose or necessary function in modern society. Since to me these are done without an animals consent, I consider them to be mutilation. (As a side note, ear cropping and tail docking had a function and purpose historically)

I guess as someone stated previously, it comes down to consent for me. If someone is of "right mind," whatever that may mean, they have a right to do what they wish to their body as long as they do not put themselves or anyone else at any undue risk or danger. If not, where do we draw the line? Why would splitting be mutilation if a piercing is not? Why are they different? I've seen extreme piercings that I think some would consider mutilation.

Thinking from a medical perspective, perhaps mutilation might be considered any procedure that alters the body for non-medical reasons and is not reversible/correctable ? So for example, an amputation for medical reasons is not mutilation.
12/16/2010
Contributor: Liz2 Liz2
The word "mutilation" can have such negative connotations overall. I am of the belief that it is mutilation if the body is altered, w/o a viable reason, in such a way that the action can not be undone. I would think that tongue and penis splitting fall into this category.
I don't think that any of the things you mentioned should be illegal but informed consent is necessary. Yes, I have two tattoos but I was not under any substance influence when I got them.
There are other words that occur to me in this discussion such as unethical, illicit, predatory all of which can be used in emotional ways......
12/16/2010
Contributor: Emma (Girl With Fire) Emma (Girl With Fire)
I believe that most of these are body mods, but some also fall under mutilation (scarification, branding, tongue splitting and MOST plastic surgery). I also do not believe anybody has the right to stop a person from engaging in these voluntarily, the exception being when this becomes obsessive/not voluntary and is physically and mentally damaging to the person (similar to but not as extreme as an eating disorder). Unfortunately this is not something that could be easily gauged, monitored or enforced.
12/16/2010
Contributor: leatherlover leatherlover
Quote:
Originally posted by ~LaUr3n~
But isn't it your right to do what you want to your body? Isn't it just like removing your hair or nails, or donating a kidney?

I'm being devil's advocate.
If it is your right to do whatever you want to do with your body, then a lot of things would have to be changed which are currently regulated. Abortion, same sex marriages, polygamy to name a few. I am not taking sides on any of those issues I mentioned, but just using as examples. I do think that something that extreme as removing a limb would need to be regulated.
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Selective Sensualist
On your survey, I responded that everything -- except for dying the hair and adding false fingernails -- is mutilation. I also responded that NONE of your examples on the survey should be illegal.

I do not have a negative opinion of anyone ... more
Awesome, so you took it from a more literal sense.

Modify and mutilate to me are not semantics and are very different words, although, to mutilate is also to modify, but not the other way around. However, I totally see your argument and point.

Cultural genital mutilation is not on my list because it is not voluntary.

Thank you so much for your opinion
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I responded that none on the list is mutilation and none should be illegal.

My perspective is one of being a veterinarian. I have seen many "procedures" done to animals that are considered cosmetic (such as ear cropping and tail ... more
I understand your opinion in the first paragraph, however, this study is about what we do to ourselves or allow others to do to us with our consent.

"Why would splitting be mutilation if a piercing is not? Why are they different?"
This is exactly what I am trying to figure out.

Thanks for your opinion!
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Emma (Girl With Fire)
I believe that most of these are body mods, but some also fall under mutilation (scarification, branding, tongue splitting and MOST plastic surgery). I also do not believe anybody has the right to stop a person from engaging in these voluntarily, the ... more
Interesting take. Thank you!
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by leatherlover
If it is your right to do whatever you want to do with your body, then a lot of things would have to be changed which are currently regulated. Abortion, same sex marriages, polygamy to name a few. I am not taking sides on any of those issues I ... more
Because of the danger involved?
12/16/2010
Contributor: Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by ~LaUr3n~
I understand your opinion in the first paragraph, however, this study is about what we do to ourselves or allow others to do to us with our consent.

"Why would splitting be mutilation if a piercing is not? Why are they ... more
I guess part of my point is that not all ritualistic procedures are necessarily with consent. Some are performed on underage children, which in my opinion is without proper consent.
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I guess part of my point is that not all ritualistic procedures are necessarily with consent. Some are performed on underage children, which in my opinion is without proper consent.
I see! Ok, I get it.
12/16/2010
Contributor: Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by Selective Sensualist
On your survey, I responded that everything -- except for dying the hair and adding false fingernails -- is mutilation. I also responded that NONE of your examples on the survey should be illegal.

I do not have a negative opinion of anyone ... more
I'm so glad you brought up semantics of word connotation! I had thought it and didn't mentioned it. Those words are loaded with society's opinions and aren't black and white in themselves. I also really like your biological definitions. It makes it so much easier to draw the line between the two without passing judgement of need, reason, or purpose.
12/16/2010
Contributor: Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I responded that none on the list is mutilation and none should be illegal.

My perspective is one of being a veterinarian. I have seen many "procedures" done to animals that are considered cosmetic (such as ear cropping and tail ... more
I know this isn't the point of the survey but...

People getting their dogs surgically altered merely for aesthetics has always saddened me. I saw a Great Dane puppy that had to get his ears surgically cut and taped upward in order to get that pointy ear look. I asked the guy why he did that to the dog and he responded, very harshly, that it was "the look he wanted". Meanwhile that little dog looked traumatized by the vet visit and wouldn't be able to get his ears scratched for weeks.

Working dogs that need their dew claws removed after birth is one thing. But snipping the ears and cutting the tail of an older puppy (who can feel everything) merely for looks makes me so sad. *cuddles her dogs*
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Darling Jen
I'm so glad you brought up semantics of word connotation! I had thought it and didn't mentioned it. Those words are loaded with society's opinions and aren't black and white in themselves. I also really like your biological ... more
In my research paper, I have defined these terms in a sociological and then medical sense, but I did not here.
12/16/2010
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by Darling Jen
I know this isn't the point of the survey but...

People getting their dogs surgically altered merely for aesthetics has always saddened me. I saw a Great Dane puppy that had to get his ears surgically cut and taped upward in order to get ... more
sorry for the off topic, but I see where you're coming from.

My best friend did not have her pekingese's dew claws removed when he was a puppy and he ended up blinding himself. Dew claw removal, IMO, is not an aesthetic procedure, but could end up saving a dog's eyes. But bear in mind that this is a dog with bulged eyes. It may not be as much of an issue for a dog with more inset eyes.

Kindred, the vet.... what do you say?

But also to bring it back around to Lauren's topic... back to the question of splitting/stretching versus piercing... this gets to the point where we're splitting hairs. (with a nerdy "har, har") I view piercing (and tattoos and hair color and nail polish) as adornment... you're adorning your body with something that pleases your eye. I feel like splitting is more of an alteration that cannot ever be what it once was. Tattoos can be removed. Basic piercings can heal (my tongue healed within weeks and I've never been able to keep my ears pierced). Stretching your earlobe to the size of a baseball, well... that will never be what it once was.
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by BBW Talks Toys
sorry for the off topic, but I see where you're coming from.

My best friend did not have her pekingese's dew claws removed when he was a puppy and he ended up blinding himself. Dew claw removal, IMO, is not an aesthetic procedure, but ... more
Excellent opinion. This will help me
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
I only need 5 more people!

Not everyone got their reward either! I still have about 5 slots left.
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
I need for more people! Thanks to whomever that last person was!
12/16/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Thanks everyone! I got 50
12/16/2010
Contributor: Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by ~LaUr3n~
Thanks everyone! I got 50
Yay! I can't wait to hear the tallied results and how your paper goes!
12/16/2010
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by Darling Jen
Yay! I can't wait to hear the tallied results and how your paper goes!
Hell, I'd love to READ this paper!
12/16/2010
Contributor: leatherlover leatherlover
Quote:
Originally posted by ~LaUr3n~
Because of the danger involved?
No, more because of the extremeness and being permanent, along with altering everyday things which now will be much more difficult.
12/16/2010
Contributor: Cream in the Cupcake Cream in the Cupcake
Quote:
Originally posted by ~LaUr3n~
Hey guys!

I am cramming a research paper right now and need your help like last time! Please do the following survey:
link

Then please discuss what you feel the difference between body modification and mutilation is.

Where ... more
To me, Mutilation is a violent act. It may not be by definition but that is how I see it. As for Modification, I am all for it. Its a form of art. I have Tattoos, peircings, stretched ears, etc. None at all should be illegal, its the persons right to do what they please, including gender reassignment surgery. The line (to me) is when somebody else is being injured without consent, such as the tribes in Africa mutilating a womens clitoris at puberty.
12/22/2010
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Darling Jen
Yay! I can't wait to hear the tallied results and how your paper goes!
The results were half expected/interesting! I'll get back to ya.
01/04/2011
Contributor: ~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Cream in the Cupcake
To me, Mutilation is a violent act. It may not be by definition but that is how I see it. As for Modification, I am all for it. Its a form of art. I have Tattoos, peircings, stretched ears, etc. None at all should be illegal, its the persons right to ... more
Okay so are they mutilation then? They can be violent, blood, pain, and screaming are sometimes involved.
01/04/2011
Contributor: Hotflashes & Wetdreams Hotflashes & Wetdreams
I just did the survey. I answered that none of these should be illegal, but you're missing one important element - AGE. While what adults want done to our bodies, even if I consider it mutilation, shouldn't be criminalized, I feel completely different about adults making permanent changes to children, whether culturally sanctioned or not. I mean, piercing ears is one thing, but various cultural genital mutilations should absolutely be illegal. No consent = immoral and illegal, in my opinion!
01/04/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by Hotflashes & Wetdreams
I just did the survey. I answered that none of these should be illegal, but you're missing one important element - AGE. While what adults want done to our bodies, even if I consider it mutilation, shouldn't be criminalized, I feel completely ... more
I have a question then. Are you saying that circumcision should be immoral (which the majority of society deems socially acceptable to circumcise) and illegal? What about putting a baby through surgery to remove a giant birth mark that would not impair their vision or anything, but to spare them the ridicule later in life?
01/04/2011