should trans gender people be allowed to use the opposite sex locker rooms that are shared by children?

married with children married with children
So in the news today, a big city in my state has let and will continue to let trans-gender people use the locker rooms of the opposite sex they where born, at swimming pools when children are present. So a guy that dresses as a girl can go into the girls locker room while children are using it.

Do you feel that is right? Does this violate other peoples personal privacy (i guess that is the best way to put that)? Should kids be forced to be exposed to that? How would you stop pervs and sex offenders from exploiting the cities policies?
Answers (private voting - your screen name will NOT appear in the results):
I agree with the cities policy
59
What city is this, so I dont move there
18
other
24
Total votes: 101 (96 voters)
Poll is closed
07/08/2011
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MaryExy MaryExy
I feel that such a policy would be too easy to exploit. Sadly, I can also see how trans-genders would face judgement in either locker room, unless they dress as their physical gender and go to that locker room.
07/08/2011
Vaccinium Vaccinium
IMO, true transgenders should use the restrooms or locker rooms of the gender with which they identify. It's going to be "weird" for some people regardless of which locker room it is, so you'd might as well make it easier for the transgender folks by letting them be where they should be.

That said, as MaryExy pointed out, it would be very easy to exploit by someone wanting to be a Peeping Tom. Hell, there have been several people over the past few years who have been arrested for hiding themselves in the bottom of a pit toilet so they could peep. Dressing in the clothes of the opposite sex would seem to be a much easier way to see much the same thing.
07/08/2011
Misfit Momma Misfit Momma
This doesn't violate anyone's privacy anymore than having a cisgendered person in the changing room does...

Being transgendered is not just about dressing up as the opposite sex. While people could attempt to exploit this, it's generally pretty easy to tell the difference between a transgendered person and a person who is just dressing up.

Should kids be forced to be exposed to what, exactly? Reality?

I think it would be an excellent opportunity to explain to kids just how different each and every individual can be. My boys are old enough (10 and 11) that I have already taught them about transgenders and sexual orientations, but had they asked sooner I would have told them sooner.
07/08/2011
kendra30752 kendra30752
No! I'm absolutely 100% totally apalled and against this load of crap! My partner and I were just discussing this a couple weeks ago. So if a man just happens to wish he was a girl, he's allowed to be in the girl's room allowed to SEE them? Hell no! My child and myself would NEVER go into a locker room or bathroom where that mess was allowed. Just because he wishes he was a female does NOT MAKE HIM ONE! Plus, how many men are going to dress up as women just to get a peep? I can imagine molestation, rape, etc. sky rocketing! What a freaking shame. Makes me sick. If they're so damn insistant on being in a different from from their OWN sex then they can use a room all for them or don't change. Or use the restroom. It's not right. It's too risky for girls. It's no different from a sick man going in the girl's room while they change or whatever. I don't feel comfortable being naked in front of anyone but my partner so why should a girl BE FORCED TO all because some dude wants to be a female so badly. Aren't there more important issues in the world? Seriously, people are being raped, abused, starving, being stoned to death, etc. and people are so selfish they'd rather worry about letting a dude in the girl's changing room? WOW! That is so low.


(Forum Mod note: No further flags are needed on this comment. Keep reading below)
  •   (6)
    I am personally offended by this
  •   (8)
    This is unacceptable / Against the Expectations of Conduct
07/08/2011
MaryExy MaryExy
Quote:
Originally posted by Misfit Momma
This doesn't violate anyone's privacy anymore than having a cisgendered person in the changing room does...

Being transgendered is not just about dressing up as the opposite sex. While people could attempt to exploit this, it's ... More
I doubt many people watching the locker rooms would care enough to tell the difference. There's too much prejudice, and many people don't have any experience with transgenders, so they aren't familiar with how serious a transgender really is. Personally I feel that I'd have to get to know a person to tell whether they're actually transgender or just had half-decent acting skills.

I agree that it makes sense for the kids to be exposed to the reality of it. However, I picture people either not knowing how to spot someone exploiting it or being too prejudice to allow even real transgenders in. It's just a big mess...
07/08/2011
Sex'и'Violence Sex'и'Violence
I'm incredibly opposed to this. Firstly, I wouldn't want my kids exposed to this until they are old enough to understand/not have it influence their own maturing process. Secondly until you're post op, you're still whatever gender your anatomy dictates. If some guy were to believe in his heart and soul that he was meant to be a pigeon/cat/whatever it wouldn't make him one. Why should this be any different?
  •   (3)
    I am personally offended by this
  •   (3)
    This is unacceptable / Against the Expectations of Conduct
07/08/2011
Misfit Momma Misfit Momma
Quote:
Originally posted by Sex'и'Violence
I'm incredibly opposed to this. Firstly, I wouldn't want my kids exposed to this until they are old enough to understand/not have it influence their own maturing process. Secondly until you're post op, you're still whatever gender ... More
Bottom surgery is a huge, risky process. (Not to mention expensive) Many transgendered people never get it done. I don't think it is fair to demand they have the surgery in order to be recognized as the gender they are trying to be.

Kids are old enough to understand long before we might like to think they are. Learning early won't do any damage.
07/08/2011
Misfit Momma Misfit Momma
Quote:
Originally posted by kendra30752
No! I'm absolutely 100% totally apalled and against this load of crap! My partner and I were just discussing this a couple weeks ago. So if a man just happens to wish he was a girl, he's allowed to be in the girl's room allowed to SEE ... More
Letting a Transwoman in the changing room is not the same as letting a dude in. It's letting a woman who was born with the wrong genitals change with the other women.
07/08/2011
Sex'и'Violence Sex'и'Violence
Quote:
Originally posted by Misfit Momma
Letting a Transwoman in the changing room is not the same as letting a dude in. It's letting a woman who was born with the wrong genitals change with the other women.
I'm personally less inclined to believe that their genitals are what they were born with incorrectly.

Additionally, kids may be old enough to "understand" a situation before we think they are, that being said it doesn't mean that they ought to be inadvertently exposed to, or expected to understand it at a younger age. There is also no telling what affect that exposure may have on the development of their own perceptions and gender identity.
07/08/2011
Ms. Spice Ms. Spice
i don;t understand why dressing rooms are separate to begin with. in europe, everyone mingles and it isn't a big deal; nudity and all. we have to teach kiddies at a young age to be tolerant of others and what better way than this?
07/08/2011
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by kendra30752
No! I'm absolutely 100% totally apalled and against this load of crap! My partner and I were just discussing this a couple weeks ago. So if a man just happens to wish he was a girl, he's allowed to be in the girl's room allowed to SEE ... More
"So if a man just happens to wish he was a girl.." There is a HELL of a lot more to the agony of being born into the wrong body than just "happening to wish you were a girl."

My fear would be the danger TO and OF forcing Transgendered people to use the locker room or bathroom of the OPPOSITE gender of what they identify with. Most transgendered people don't abuse kids, but many transgendered people DO OFTEN get sexually assaulted or physically assaulted by intolerant people who think they have no right to live!

Please, do some research into transgender issues and learn that it has nothing to do with "wishing" and more to do with genetics, sets of double genitals, brain chemistry and internal strife at having to live in the wrong body.

Imagine if one day you woke up with a man's body and penis and balls. Would you feel uncomfortable? Would you only "wish" you were a woman again, or would it be a NEED?

Tolerance, PLEASE!!!!
07/08/2011
namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by kendra30752
No! I'm absolutely 100% totally apalled and against this load of crap! My partner and I were just discussing this a couple weeks ago. So if a man just happens to wish he was a girl, he's allowed to be in the girl's room allowed to SEE ... More
This post is full of ignorance and hysteria.

First, off this is not about letting a dude into a girls changing room, it about letting a person into the restroom that correspondences with their gender. Note female trans-genders are apparently invisible in your rant.

I can imagine molestation, rape, etc. sky rocketing! What a freaking shame.

I don't see how on earth this could make it "sky rocket". I strongly doubt their is a whole contingent of rapists kept at bay by the presence of gender segregated facilities. Would you say the same of co-ed locker rooms? Co-ed bathrooms? Co-ed anything?

It's no different from a sick man going in the girl's room while they change or whatever.

Let make something clear you just called being a tran-person the same as being sick, you just called many of the members of this forum sick. (no different is the same as saying equal). Go ask any psychologist go read the DSM-IV or do any research and they will tell you that is false. You don't get to call people "sick" and expect society to conformance to your views. Trans-gender people are healthy (and thus in no way is it the same as letting a sick man in) and deserved not to have their lives regulated due to your ignorance.

I don't feel comfortable being naked in front of anyone but my partner so

Your already naked in front of other people that are not your a partner.

Seriously, people are being raped, abused, starving, being stoned to death, etc
Irony: You know one of those groups that gets stoned to death (and raped and abused) in this world is trans-genders. Why? Intolerance. What to stop people from getting stoned? Not adding to intolerance the problem would be a good start.
07/08/2011
namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by Misfit Momma
Bottom surgery is a huge, risky process. (Not to mention expensive) Many transgendered people never get it done. I don't think it is fair to demand they have the surgery in order to be recognized as the gender they are trying to be.

Kids ... More
Not only that it not really the surgery their are multiple procedures involved, some go for the works some only do some. So how exactly do you define "post op". Buck Angel is legal recognized as a man but still has a vagina and no penis. Hormone injections can give you many secondary sex characteristic without anything else. It not as simple a pre/post dichotomy as people saying you have to be post op are trying to paint it as.
07/08/2011
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by Misfit Momma
This doesn't violate anyone's privacy anymore than having a cisgendered person in the changing room does...

Being transgendered is not just about dressing up as the opposite sex. While people could attempt to exploit this, it's ... More
Additionally, how is this any more dangerous than a cissexual pedophile going into a locker room of the sex they identify as? In other words, a cissexual male could go into the men's locker room just as easily and harass or otherwise attempt to harm a child. This argument against transgender individuals using the appropriate bathroom or locker room is absurd and very thinly (if at all) veiled transphobic parading under the guise of concern trolling. It's shameful. The very real problems of sexual assault and child abuse are being exploited here to defend transphobia and that is awful. Anyone who has used this defense needs to closely examine the logic of their argument, as well as its true motivations.

Furthermore, no one has mentioned the safety of trans people in all of this madness. Consider the enormous number of verbal, sexual and other forms of physical violence that trans people endure when they go into private spaces designated for the sex that they were assigned at birth but do NOT identify with OR present as. Does this matter to anyone? Or are we all too busy going "B-b-b-but...what about the CHILDREN!!!!!" The children will be FINE. I grew up with two transgender relatives as strong presences in my life - an aunt and an uncle - and guess what? I wasn't traumatized. I grew up to not be hateful, or fearful of things I did not personally understand, and to understand that the world is a big and complex place that I wasn't always going to "get" right way and that this was okay. I do not see why it would be harmful for a child to see a trans person nude - regardless of their stage of transition - I only see that as helpful and teachable. Depending on a child's age, they may ask about it in front of the person. You can use that opportunity to tell a child

"It is not polite to talk about people's bodies or ask them questions about them. Their body - just like yours - is private and belongs to them and them only. Please apologize to this person."

You could later on (in private) explain that bodies come in all shapes and sizes, and that not all women have the same genitals, and not all men do either. You can explain what transsexuality is in rudimentary terms for them so that they have some basis of knowledge, and they can build on this as they get older and are better able to understand sexuality and gender in more complex ways. This is more or less what my mother did for me when my aunt transitioned and I started asking questions about her voice and her appearance. It worked just fine for me - and again, look ma, no trauma!
07/08/2011
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by Sex'и'Violence
I'm personally less inclined to believe that their genitals are what they were born with incorrectly.

Additionally, kids may be old enough to "understand" a situation before we think they are, that being said it doesn't mean ... More
Actually, there is a way of telling. I grew up with transgender people in my family and close social circle and I am not gender confused, nor are my siblings. Pretty decent evidence that transsexuality isn't "contagious".
07/08/2011
Ms. Spice Ms. Spice
Quote:
Originally posted by Ms. Spice
i don;t understand why dressing rooms are separate to begin with. in europe, everyone mingles and it isn't a big deal; nudity and all. we have to teach kiddies at a young age to be tolerant of others and what better way than this?
i voted in the wrong spot. i totally agree with the city's new ordinance
07/08/2011
Sir Sir
Wow!

How does being trans- have ANYTHING to do with sex offenders?

I feel that this is a good thing and is gender-identity positive!
07/08/2011
Ansley Ansley
I hit this post expecting to find a rabid and misinformed comment from Kendra, I just didn't know it was going to be this bad. I'm appalled and I feel like Eden probably isn't the place for this person. So far today, I have read two very hateful comments accusing people of sexual misconduct or somehow being condescending about another's choice. (The picture post Trillian asked.)

So much hate and so little knowledge.
07/08/2011
Vaccinium Vaccinium
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
I hit this post expecting to find a rabid and misinformed comment from Kendra, I just didn't know it was going to be this bad. I'm appalled and I feel like Eden probably isn't the place for this person. So far today, I have read two very ... More
Intolerance is the spawn of fear and ignorance.
07/08/2011
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Vaccinium
Intolerance is the spawn of fear and ignorance.
Might you have that backwards?

Derp. No it's just reading comprehension fail on my part.

Yes, yes it is!
07/08/2011
CuteDee CuteDee
Hmmm... I would really have to think about that. I would hope that any place where there are children present, their parents are around to explain any questions.

I have an 8 yo daughter and personally, I think I would feel a bit weird if a man, dressed as a woman, came into the women's changing room to undress for a swim. While I try really hard to understand how it might feel for someone being born a man/woman and wanted to live the life of an opposite gender, I would worry about people taking advantage of they system... ie man pretending to be a woman, just so he can come into the women's changing room.

Ive always kind of thought restrooms should be gender neutral w/only stalls for privacy, but no urinals. It wouldnt really bother me to pee next to a guy but once again, there could be a safety issue w/preverts waiting in restrooms for woman. I do love the family restrooms and have seen dads in their w/kids and that has never bothered me.
07/08/2011
Sex'и'Violence Sex'и'Violence
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Wow!

How does being trans- have ANYTHING to do with sex offenders?

I feel that this is a good thing and is gender-identity positive!
I'll reiterate the top portion of this comment. Though I still disagree with the motion, I don't see how being transsexual has any bearing on whether or not a person is a sexual predator.
07/08/2011
gone77 gone77
OK, folks, looks like it's time for your friendly Community Manager/Moderator to step in for a second.

This is obviously a very touchy subject for some and unfortunately, some people aren't showing the best of themselves with their posts.

Some flags have been thrown down and they are being dealt with. I never enjoy it when a thread goes downhill, but it's a fact of having an open community. As always, I hope this thread can get on a civil path. I'd rather not have to close this thread down for a 24-hour cool off, but it's starting to look that way.

Whatever happens, I want you guys to know that I'm handling the situation in private.

Thanks.
07/08/2011
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by gone77
OK, folks, looks like it's time for your friendly Community Manager/Moderator to step in for a second.

This is obviously a very touchy subject for some and unfortunately, some people aren't showing the best of themselves with their ... More
Thank you Kristi! We appreciate you taking time away on your Friday night to help us keep things chill in here! I'm going to go write some smut and walk away. I'll come back to thread in a couple of days.
07/08/2011
MaryExy MaryExy
I think co-ed in general would make the transgender situation a bit easier. A transgender is probably gonna face just as much prejudice in either locker room, and I know many moms who wouldn't explain to their kids why there was a physical male in the locker room (and dads who wouldn't explain a physical woman), leaving their kids confused and thinking that the person is just weird.

How many locker rooms usually have kids AND adults changing in them? Now that I think about it, I can't think of any, except maybe the locker room at the athletic club (most people go there for the pool and wear a swimsuit under clothes, though... and kids don't go into the exercise rooms as far as I've seen)
07/08/2011
Rin (aka Nire) Rin (aka Nire)
Honestly, it wouldn't really bother me to have transgendered people changing in a room with the gender they identify with. Children in the room? Well, the earlier they learn about such matters, the easier it'll be for them to accept them and it'll encourage tolerance and understanding. We need more of that in the world. Some people worry whether it'll "warp" their children, but by that logic no child raised by a heterosexual couple would ever become gay - and yet that very scenario happens so often. Besides, shouldn't you love your child no matter what they ultimately feel is right for them - man, woman, straight, or gay?

And while I can understand the fear of someone exploiting the situation to sexually harass others, isn't it also true that a person can harass someone of the same sex? Just because everyone in the room is the same gender doesn't necessarily mean that everyone's safe (not to breed fear, of course - all I mean is that gender has nothing to do with how likely a person is to be a sex offender).
07/08/2011
RonLee RonLee
It saddens me to see that so many of our community are so ignorant on this topic and worse, voice such intolerance.
07/08/2011
Endocott Endocott
Just because they're transgendered, doesn't mean they go into the bathroom with some other purpose than to relieve themselves/wash their hands. Pervs/sex offenders will be pervs/sex offenders regardless of the situation. They are NOT the same.
07/08/2011
Emma (Girl With Fire) Emma (Girl With Fire)
I would love to see trans-people in the washrooms of their identified gender. I always feel like they are kept in hiding, mostly because they are forced to be. Intolerance makes everybody's lives more uncomfortable than they need to be. If this was something that people faced regularly, even just from bumping into people in washrooms and changerooms, I think there would be a lot less social stigma attached to it. It makes me really sad that we live the way we do, and that people are made to be afraid of what they are instead of embracing it.
07/11/2011
Total posts: 70
Unique posters: 46