should trans gender people be allowed to use the opposite sex locker rooms that are shared by children?

Contributor: oohlookasquirrel oohlookasquirrel
But if our children see people with bodies that look different from their own (or people with different family and relationship situations), we're teaching them that it's OK to be different! How will they know who to hate if we don't make rules excluding people who are different from us? Clearly, seeing a partially-dressed stranger in a locker room is no different than exposing them to pornography, just like children with two daddies are taught about anal sex before they can walk! If my son hears about a trans person, he's going to want to get a sex change too!

(ok, done with the sarcasm.)
07/11/2011
Contributor: Papershotglass Papershotglass
Holy Politically Incorrect Batman!
Some of these posts just reek of intolerance and hysteria. I won’t go further than that, but yikes.
A lot of us seem so concerned about what our children will say/see and how it offends our morals, ideas of gender and sexuality and I wish to offer the other side of the coin. Since we seem so focused on the man dressed as a woman scenario, let’s use that as an example first. If this woman (I am going to be gender correct, thanks) goes into the men’s bathroom, there is going to be a couple problems – first and foremost, how are the rest of the bathroom attendants going to respond? If you said “not well,” you just won an internet. There have been cases of violent beatings, brutal rapes (to the transgender people) and just all around not okay behavior. The woman who feels like a man going into the lady’s room? Not as much of a problem, but cases have existed. Why do we need to make a big deal out of something that is someone else’s personal choice and expression of their true self? Because some people don’t respond well to something that doesn’t fit neatly in a category/box. I say we should just offer a third or even fourth bathroom.
07/12/2011
Contributor: K101 K101
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
"So if a man just happens to wish he was a girl.." There is a HELL of a lot more to the agony of being born into the wrong body than just "happening to wish you were a girl."

My fear would be the danger TO and OF forcing ... more
I was misunderstood! I did not mean that molestors and rapists ARE transgenedered. I only meant that there are sick people that rape and molest and this would give them perfect opportunity. I did not mean the transgendered specifically. I mean, it will cause some people to see this as an opportunity to say they are a transgender and use that excuse to get into the ladies room. I want that to be known that that is what I was talking about. My entire response was about the worries of people abusing the right to get in the girl's restrooms. I'm very sorry to anyone if they thought I meant that I think transgenders would use that as an excuse. I'm not opposed to trangendered people at all.

Now, about the whole it's worse for a transgender to be forced into the restroom of their original sex than for the safety of girls. IMO trasngenders are usually adults. I highly doubt that it'd be more harmful/risky for them to be "forced" to use the restroom that matches their original sex than for all women and girl's privacy and safety being gone, thrown away. Think about it, a lot of people would take advantage of the rule by using it to "pretend" they're transgender and then get into the girl's room. To me, that's far more risky than a transgender having to use a restroom that matches their original sex. Kids cannot always defend themselves. In the case of people abusing the rule and using it for very bad things, that totally strips us all of our privacy. Having to use the restroom you used for most of your life is not really risky or anything. It may be uncomfortable, but there's far more worries with rape and molestation if men are allowed in the girl's room at all.

I get it. Wrong body. If you want to have a sex change then you DO WISH you were a different sex. Not that it's bad of course, but how is that not correct? I get that it's much more than a desire to have something, but my words on that part were just ripped apart and picked at. It seems this happens with the same people too.

I get that it's seriously, painful and cause very devastating effects for a person in the wrong body. I have a very young fam member who feels this way. I DO HAVE TOLERANCE! EVERY DAY! OK, I get it. It's so bad. It's something that won't go away until you fix it. Still, a NEED is something you cannot stay alive without. A NEED is water, food, etc.

In my eleven year old's words: "A NEED is something that you have to have in order to live. I don't NEED Call Of Duty, but I REALLY WANT it. I will not die without it though." I believe there are needs that you can live without, but are neccessary, but a need is generally somethign like water, food.

If I woke up with penis and balls? That's highly unlikely and transgenders do not wake up suddenly with different parts. They are born that way. I've done my research I've dealt with one for 13 years now. I understand as much as a person can.
11/02/2011
Contributor: K101 K101
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
This post is full of ignorance and hysteria.

First, off this is not about letting a dude into a girls changing room, it about letting a person into the restroom that correspondences with their gender. Note female trans-genders are apparently ... more
No, I feel the same about trans women. It's my opinion, you have yours. Yours might offend me, but I don't attack any of you here. I move on with my life I don't waste my time flagging. Like I said, I was not meaning that toward transgendered. My only problem is that OUR privacy as women is totally stripped if this was to happen.

How could you NOT see rape and such happening? Let's see, if you have ever had experience with a rapist or a sick person similar, you know they think of ways to get what they want. They prey on victims and by allowing transgenders in the women's restrooms that makes way for those who aren't, have an opportunity to "fake transgender" and get into the female's room. That is how it would sky rocket.

I did not mean that a trans person is sick like a rapist. Of course I'd never say that! I mean, if they would allow this without thinking of how it strips women of privacy and makes it possible for people to "Fake it" then why not just go ahead and allow all men including rapists into the girl's room. I did not mean by letting a trans use the restroom it's the same as a rapist. That was worded terribly by me. I have a very personal reason for my strong opinion on this, but my problem is not with trans. If I said men should not be allowed in the females restroom, nobody would flag me, but because the issue has to do with trans I was flagged. Hmmm... Again, my problem is not with trans people. It's with the little care for women and children's safety and privacy.

I do apologize to those who I offended and upset. I got overwhelmed about the topic because of personal reasons. I feel so extremely strongly about keeping people safe from rape and molestation and such that this hit close to me. I should have gave myself time to word it better. I do not have a problem with transgendered, gays, straights, etc. I'm a lover! I've dealt with a homosexual child for 13 years so I would never mean to come off as a person who doesn't like them. That was my mistake. I'm woman enough to admit and apologize sincerely. However, I am not here to argue with you guys over what's worse the risk of being abused sexually or being trasngender and being forced to use a restroom. I'm only here to defend myself as it's clear I need to.


I have apologized and I do mean it. I shouldn't have worded things the way I did. I realize it does sound terrible, like I had bad feelings towards trans people. I assure you, I don't. If I have an issue with anyone I will simply message them and clear it up kindly. I don't feel a need to argue back and forth and I wouldn't ever attack someone and pick apart everything they say just because they don't agree with me. I expect the same respect.
11/02/2011
Contributor: aliceinthehole aliceinthehole
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
"So if a man just happens to wish he was a girl.." There is a HELL of a lot more to the agony of being born into the wrong body than just "happening to wish you were a girl."

My fear would be the danger TO and OF forcing ... more
thank you! so well spoken and i 100% agree.

kendra, some research into the science behind transgender would be good for you.

a friend of mine whose boyfriend is trans enlightened me about some research she'd heard that stated the sex is assigned in the brain before the rest of the body. and depending on what the woman does during her pregnancy (usage of alcohol, certain prescribed or illegal drugs as well) could change the gender assignment after it's already assigned in the brain. then the development of genitals and hormones kicks in.

so while you could've been assigned as a female in the brain, your body was later formed as a man. you do know that we all start out as a female, right? and then the genitalia split off so that the cock is formed where the clitoris would be, and the ovaries are the balls.

a LITTLE sensitivity would be nice. for goodness sakes.
11/02/2011
Contributor: RonLee RonLee
Who would know?!@@#@$
11/02/2011
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by K101
No, I feel the same about trans women. It's my opinion, you have yours. Yours might offend me, but I don't attack any of you here. I move on with my life I don't waste my time flagging. Like I said, I was not meaning that toward ... more
How could you NOT see rape and such happening?

I can say it won’t happen because it is not happening. This is not a hypothetical situation. Several institutions have done with no “skyrocketing" rape rate one example: link.

Several city are already doing it; rape rates have not skyrocketed. link “Since the ordinance took effect, police have reported no problems in public restrooms stemming from the law.”.

Washington D.C., not seeing the skyrocketing: link

…and o yes the entire state of Colorado: link

…And the entire state of Iwoa: link

…and the entire state of Washington: link

Find me the rape that would have not occurred if not for these laws, you have three entire states and the District of Columbia to do it in. It not a matter of would at this point, trans gender are allowed in enough places that either it has or it hasn't; and so far there is no evidence that it has.

Here is my favorite acronym: False Evidence Appearing Real. It applies to this situation.
11/03/2011
Contributor: Beck Beck
While I respect their rights to be who they are, they have genitalia of that sex they need to be in that bathroom.
11/03/2011
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by K101
I was misunderstood! I did not mean that molestors and rapists ARE transgenedered. I only meant that there are sick people that rape and molest and this would give them perfect opportunity. I did not mean the transgendered specifically. I mean, it ... more
You said: "I mean, it will cause some people to see this as an opportunity to say they are a transgender and use that excuse to get into the ladies room

Seriously? Do you really think that's going to happen. Child molesters have myriad opportunities to gain access to children. "Pretending to be transgendered" is not something that any child molester is going to do to gain access to their prey.

And, YES, transgendered people who use the locker rooms and bathrooms of gender they feel the opposite of HAVE BEEN sexually assaulted, raped, beaten and even killed. Show me one instance of someone "pretending" to be a real TG person to gain access to children. It's ridiculous.

Please read namelesschaos' links to areas where TG people are allowed to use the proper locker rooms for their intended gender (the one they KNOW they are) and the fact that "rape" and "child molestation" rates have not gone up at all.

You son's desire to have a video game has nothing to do with a transgendered persons NEED to live in the body of and be recognized as the gender they truly are! You're trivializing something that is of utmost importance to many people. You said: "Still, a NEED is something you cannot stay alive without Yeah, no shit. That's right. Are you aware that one of the highest rates of suicide is among transgendered people who are not able to live as they NEED to? Living in the body they NEED is a NEED. MANY DO DIE when they can't live as they need to.

You need to do more research, because you simply went back to your original stereotype, after saying you "understand." ; You don't understand, or you wouldn't compare being transgendered to "wishing you were a girl" or for crissakes wanting a freaking video game!

If you were starving would you "just happen to wish" for food, or would you NEED it? For TG people, it's the same damn thing.

Myself and others didn't "misunderstand" what you have been saying in the least. Saying you "know" a "homosexual" and then repeating the same old stereotypes doesn't excuse the intolerance or lack of understanding of how transgendered identity works! "Homosexuality" is NOT the same as Transgendered Identity. Not even close.

Please don't think anyone is "picking" on you. You chose your words, and people have picked up on their meaning. If you don't understand transgendered needs, just say so. But, please don't attack what you don't understand.

Please.
.
11/03/2011
Contributor: badk1tty badk1tty
Quote:
Originally posted by K101
No! I'm absolutely 100% totally apalled and against this load of crap! My partner and I were just discussing this a couple weeks ago. So if a man just happens to wish he was a girl, he's allowed to be in the girl's room allowed to SEE ... more
Yes, because everyone who's TG wants to go look at the sex they want to be, just so they can get off to it. Man, the ignorance of some people is just astonishing.
11/03/2011
Contributor: chicken12 chicken12
A transgender woman is not a "guy that dresses as a girl." It's a woman with male genitalia. The locker rooms are "men's" and "women's" locker rooms, not penis and vagina locker rooms.
11/03/2011
Contributor: eroticmutt eroticmutt
First of all, I think it is offensive that you even MENTION sex offenders abusing this ability. A transgender woman looks like a man- she is not your typical chick just scoping out little boys. If she is trans you will either know she is trans or she will appear manly. Same goes for the opposite scenario.

Sex offenders of ANY gender and orientation should not be allowed in children's locker rooms, but discriminating against transgenders for that is absolutely rediculous.

In my opinion, men who haven't had bottom surgery- ie penis/bulge would be visible while they change- should be changing only in the bathrooms of the locker rooms, not where other people would see their package. And transgender women should be wearing binders because their breasts should not be visible in the locker room.

As long as you are not exposing opposite-sex genitals in the locker room, there isn't an issue.
11/03/2011
Contributor: gone77 gone77
Hey, guys:

I'm stepping in here because I see this 3 month old thread is flaring up again. Yesterday someone flagged one of Kendra's posts from when this was initially discussed and it looks like she came here to clarify her statements from 3 months ago. Unfortunately, it looks as though it's just going to get out of hand again. So, I'm asking you guys to put this to rest. No more flags and no more clarifications for things said 3 months ago are needed. OK? Don't make me borrow Carrie Ann's jelly dildo!
11/03/2011
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell


I'm done. How should education be done?
11/03/2011
Contributor: Eliza Eliza
Quote:
Originally posted by Misfit Momma
This doesn't violate anyone's privacy anymore than having a cisgendered person in the changing room does...

Being transgendered is not just about dressing up as the opposite sex. While people could attempt to exploit this, it's ... more
*applause*
11/03/2011
Contributor: Paladin Fantasys Paladin Fantasys
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell


I'm done. How should education be done?
Relentlessly and with tolerance.
11/03/2011
Contributor: K101 K101
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
You said: "I mean, it will cause some people to see this as an opportunity to say they are a transgender and use that excuse to get into the ladies room

Seriously? Do you really think that's going to happen. Child molesters have ... more
.....
11/06/2011
Contributor: Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Quote:
Originally posted by Ms. Spice
i don;t understand why dressing rooms are separate to begin with. in europe, everyone mingles and it isn't a big deal; nudity and all. we have to teach kiddies at a young age to be tolerant of others and what better way than this?
This isn't something I knew. Interesting.
11/06/2011
Contributor: Errant Venture Errant Venture
Some are, and some aren't. My local leisure centre's changing rooms are for both men and women, with no division. It's generally understood that you keep to your side of the changing room, but it's not a rule. But there are some places with such a division.

If I were to go to one with such a division, I'd prefer if pre-op transgenders stay in the one that lines up with their current alignment, and only until they're post-op can they go into the other one.
11/07/2011
Contributor: Stinkytofu10 Stinkytofu10
Quote:
Originally posted by Misfit Momma
This doesn't violate anyone's privacy anymore than having a cisgendered person in the changing room does...

Being transgendered is not just about dressing up as the opposite sex. While people could attempt to exploit this, it's ... more
I agree. When I have kids, I will raise them without forcing them into one gender or another, regardless of what society expects of them, and regardless of what body they are born into. I will let them observe, absorb and learn about the world around them, and I will let them make decisions for themselves. Gender identity is usually established at a very young age, and I want to support them in whatever they choose to identify with (or not identify at all, that is OK too).

I see nothing different to "exposing kids" to cisgendered people than transgendered people. It's the same to me as "exposing kids" to other races, cultures, ages, ethnicities, etc. Our bodies are just shells, why should anyone's outward appearance and the way they choose to express themselves any more or less acceptable than whatever society dictates as the "norm"? Honestly, with 6+ billions individuals, you'd think we would be more tolerant as a human species, but unfortunately there's always progress to be made. One individual at a time...

As to the question of pervs and sex offenders, they exploit in ways they are familiar with and are comfortable. Enabling this legislation isn't going to stop them from doing what they want to do or going where they want to go. It makes no difference whether this legislation is passed or denied, because if pervs and sex offenders wanted to peep and molest children, they don't need this ordinance to do it.
02/21/2012
Contributor: GONE! GONE!
Uh, how is it any "worse" than having a gay person go in there? Jesus Christ people. Just because everyone in a room looks like they belong to the same gender doesn't mean they're all straight or that one of them isn't a sex predator. Sex predators can look perfectly harmless and can be of any gender!
Not to mention that if a trans woman went into a male locker room presented as her true gender she could be physically harmed by sick people. That should not have to happen just because some people don't know about trans people and don't understand that we aren't a bunch of perverts!
02/21/2012
Contributor: Chirple Chirple
I think our culture needs to stop being so darn ashamed of bodies and sexualising them to such an insane degree.

And equating the transgender with molesters is as ridiculous as equating homosexuals with it.

Many child molesters don't care about CONTROL more than sexual attractiveness - and many abuse children of the same sex. This doesn't make them homosexual, and even if they were, it doesn't mean all homosexuals should be barred from locker rooms.

I feel this will actually make SAFER from assault (even if for misguided reasons for the fear in the first place) - instead of relying on a completely false sense of safety that didn't exist in the first place.
02/21/2012
Contributor: Girly Juice Girly Juice
Uh, it's not the "opposite sex," it's their own gender. And yes, of course they should be allowed to use the proper bathroom for their proper gender.
02/06/2013
Contributor: Lildrummrgurl7 Lildrummrgurl7
Why should a woman be barred from using a "woman's" bathroom simply because of her chromosomal configuration?

Why should a man be barred from the "men's room" just because he was born with XX chromosomes?
02/06/2013
Contributor: Misfit Momma Misfit Momma
Shhh. This is a really old thread that should be gathering dust on page 973.
02/06/2013
Contributor: SecondStory SecondStory
I think transpeople should be able to use the restroom/changing room they identify with. End of.
02/06/2013
Contributor: Aishiteru Aishiteru
I think that things would be better if men and women weren't segregated.
02/06/2013
Contributor: GONE! GONE!
The thing is, we all know this is really about cisgender people not having to teach their kids about the existence of transgender people. Silly parents, we'll still be in bathrooms no matter which bathroom we use so your kids will still see us eventually!
02/06/2013
Contributor: apryls apryls
Quote:
Originally posted by married with children
So in the news today, a big city in my state has let and will continue to let trans-gender people use the locker rooms of the opposite sex they where born, at swimming pools when children are present. So a guy that dresses as a girl can go into the ... more
I see your point, but most trans genders dress as the sex they feel they are and have been fighting for equal rights like this for a long time. I highly doubt that any trans gender person would expose themsevles with kids in a room. As for your concern about a regular person claiming to be a trans gender to get into the changing room, you'll know. A trans gender male that feels like a female is beautiful, personally I have seen them put regular females to shame so no Joe Smoe off the street can walk in their shoes. Take the time to meet them, they are just like you and me
02/06/2013
Contributor: apryls apryls
Quote:
Originally posted by married with children
So in the news today, a big city in my state has let and will continue to let trans-gender people use the locker rooms of the opposite sex they where born, at swimming pools when children are present. So a guy that dresses as a girl can go into the ... more
To put it simply, you are who you are when you are born, be it trans, gay, purple, whatever and if you have kids it's your job to educate them about the differences and yourself just like you would teach them about other things.
02/06/2013