Thoughts on the California Transgender Student Rights Bill?

MrWill MrWill
California Transgender Student Rights Bill Clears State Assembly

The state assembly in California just approved a bill that would allow transgender students to use the bathrooms/locker rooms that fit the sex which they present themselves as (I do not mean any offense to any transgendered people here by my phrasing of this, I don't know a better way to phrase it).


So, what is your opinion of this? It still has to pass the state Senate, but I just wanted to get Eden's opinion!


I think there are 2 sides here and they both have valid points.

A transgendered student should be allowed to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in, but if it makes cis-gendered students feel uncomfortable.. How could it be handled?

Set bathroom times for t-students as opposed to cis-gendered students would be considered divisive, in my opinion.

And what of cis-gendered students acting as transgendered students to be allowed in the opposite sex's facilities?


What say you Eden?
06/11/2013
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Fluke Fluke
Sounds like a good bill. I think more people in a restroom would feel uncomfortable seeing someone who appears to be the opposite sex regardless of what they actually are.
06/12/2013
bratcat bratcat
I would like to start by saying, the use of "transgerndered" is not necessary or correct. The term is simply "transgender" or "trans(*)."

I think the approval of this bill is a grate step in transgender awareness and inclusion of GLBTQ rights, so i'm very please to hear!
But there are good and bad aspect to the this law if it is passed. Some of which we've seen before in the media, such as a group of male students who sodomized a gay teen in the locker room because of his sexual orientation. This can easily happen to trans* students who do not come off as "passing" or have a passing privilege, and would be my worse fear when it comes to this. However, i still think it is a great idea and step forward for the GLBTQ community as a whole.
Now I do think all trans* people, as any person should, should be able to use whatever bathroom they feel most comfortable using without any sort of fear. If this is something implemented in schools, i would hope the schools would hold an assembly to raise trans* & LGBTQ inclusion and awareness. As for public restrooms (and possible schools too), it maybe reasonable to have genderless restrooms for those who are comfortable using them - as well as having gender restrooms.
Now as far as cisfolk are concerned, thats honestly something they just have to get over. To me the "uncomfortable" feeling a cisperson may feel while around a trans*person comes off as "i dont see you as the gender you are, but just the one you we're assigned at birth."

I'm not really sure what you're trying to state in the last question. Is it you are saying that n a school system what if children demanded "equality" to use the opposite genders bathroom?
I find it to be assine and quickly erases the real issue that many trans*folk are unable to use public restrooms withut fear of being outted because the may not be able to "pass" when using what is restroom they feel most comfortable with, or being beaten (even killed) for using a restroom they do not feel most comfortable using.
06/12/2013
MrWill MrWill
Quote:
Originally posted by bratcat
I would like to start by saying, the use of "transgerndered" is not necessary or correct. The term is simply "transgender" or "trans(*)."

I think the approval of this bill is a grate step in transgender awareness ... More
First: I'll apologize for saying it incorrectly. That wasn't my intention at all!


I just see it as something with good intentions that will be horribly corrupted and destroyed. I understand that if person "A" was born with male genitalia but has mentally been female their entire life, that they should be allowed to use the same restroom... but the world doesn't see things that way, and they never will. Since the dawn of time, humanity has found ways to divide ourselves. If you can't find a physical difference (and physical differences are the easiest to be divisive with) then just make up a religion. If religion doesn't work, slap down and imaginary line on paper. If that doesn't work, use skin color.


And the first time a Transgender youth gets someone pregnant or gets pregnant... then there will be an unholy shit storm of everyone trying to place blame.


Let's skip a few steps, and go full on co-ed bathrooms and locker rooms. Keep one or two faculty members in with the students at all times, and stop the stupidity.

You can't win a game of chess looking at the next move. You have to be several moves ahead. Yes, it sounds like a victory for trans students.. until shit hits the fan and they lose even more rights. Taking a pawn to lose your queen doesn't win the game.
06/12/2013
bratcat bratcat
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWill
First: I'll apologize for saying it incorrectly. That wasn't my intention at all!


I just see it as something with good intentions that will be horribly corrupted and destroyed. I understand that if person "A" was born ... More
No problem! i was letting you know for future reference.

As for the rest of what you're stating it really comes down to how children will react to the issue, as well as staff and students. Like i said i can definedntly see it having some negative consequences, especially for trans*women who are often a targeted group for hate crimes, and by having inclusive bathrooms/locker rooms this could easily out those who dont fit what cisfolk see as "passing" or for the individuals who do not have a passing privilege and they may receive a physical backlash form it (as well as probably verbal and emotional abuse because of it).
Again, that is my main concern for the passage of this bill.
I can't see co-ed bathrooms happening anytime in the near future, especially with how voyeuristic young men can sometimes be.
And even with supervision (i know through out school when i had phys ed it was mandatory for a coach to be present in the locker room) bad things still may happen - refer back to my statement about the young boy who was physically abused/raped in the boys locker room during school hours.

Honestly i see parents being more upset with out this is implemented, rather than students as young people tend to be more accepting and open to such things.

Still, even with the bad i still think it's a good move for the trans* community in creating awareness and inclusion as the T & Q of the LGBTQ movement tend to be left out of discussions and overlooked by society as a whole.

Yes bad things may happen, but you have to try and think of it as a win, as we wont know the turn out until this policy in implemented for a little while.
I know in other cities that have started using genderless bathrooms, it seems to have worked out very well.
06/12/2013
Ansley Ansley
Just kind of throwing this out there but wouldn't the real solution be to have three gender-oriented bathrooms - cismale, cisfemale, and trans*?

(Sorry if that's a stupid question, but it seems to be the simplest solution or does that risk being outed if you're not ready to discuss your identity?)
06/13/2013
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWill
California Transgender Student Rights Bill Clears State Assembly

The state assembly in California just approved a bill that would allow transgender students to use the bathrooms/locker rooms that fit the sex which they present themselves as (I ... More
Honestly if you put doors on the potty stalls who is going to feel uncomfortable about someone going to the toilet? So long as both sides behave themselves as adults there shouldn't be an issue. I dunno about you all but I don't use a public toilet as a chance to check the genitals of the other urinators! Ok bad word....let's say patrons, that sounds better. So long as you don't get fresh with me I, genuinely, don't care what genitals you have.
06/13/2013
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Airen Wolf
Honestly if you put doors on the potty stalls who is going to feel uncomfortable about someone going to the toilet? So long as both sides behave themselves as adults there shouldn't be an issue. I dunno about you all but I don't use a public ... More
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I mean to a degree, I get why people would be uncomfortable but at the same time I don't get it at all. Of course my outlook on things is kind of like "smoke 'em if you got 'em" and "let your freak flag fly" and I know that people have a really hard time allowing others to be themselves because there's some baseline fear that it will corrupt their own sensibilities.
06/13/2013
MrWill MrWill
Quote:
Originally posted by Airen Wolf
Honestly if you put doors on the potty stalls who is going to feel uncomfortable about someone going to the toilet? So long as both sides behave themselves as adults there shouldn't be an issue. I dunno about you all but I don't use a public ... More
It applies to locker rooms also Airen, and here (at least where I went to school) the locker rooms were completely open as were the showers. I felt odd enough at that age in a locker room full of people with the same equipment as me, (worrying about how big my cock was an such).


I don't think bathrooms are nearly as big a deal as locker rooms.
06/13/2013
bratcat bratcat
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
Just kind of throwing this out there but wouldn't the real solution be to have three gender-oriented bathrooms - cismale, cisfemale, and trans*?

(Sorry if that's a stupid question, but it seems to be the simplest solution or does that ... More
Thats an inherently cissexist way of thinking (i'm not saying that you are cissexst/transaphobic but this way of thinking/statement is) and can be extremely dangerous for trans* individuals as it easily outs them to the public. Not to mention if you were to go along that line of thinking it would be four options not just three as many trans*folk do subscribe to the gender binary. Really the simplest solution would be an inclusionary genderless bathroom with just stalls and no open urinals.

When it comes to locker rooms, Mr Will has a good point. everything is out in the open, which i guess was for safety reasons for some reason, but often leads to harassment and teasing (this i know from personal experience). Honestly i feel the best rout is if they had a couple stalls where it we're safe for a trans* student to change in without fear of being outed or harassed. I know in middle school we has shower curtains over our showers and many of the girls would change in there until the coach got wind and would demand that we change out in the open - which i dont think is all that fair at all. Being self conscious of one's body at that time is pretty more, and even more so for a trans*person or someone with a physical disability.
06/13/2013
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by bratcat
Thats an inherently cissexist way of thinking (i'm not saying that you are cissexst/transaphobic but this way of thinking/statement is) and can be extremely dangerous for trans* individuals as it easily outs them to the public. Not to mention if ... More
Yeah I figured as such. It's just such a slippery slope, you know? Each person in the community has a different want or need and nothing ever really seems to be the best solution for everyone involved. No matter how you slice it, making one group of people uncomfortable in order to make another group comfortable still leaves an imbalance.
06/13/2013
tami tami
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWill
California Transgender Student Rights Bill Clears State Assembly

The state assembly in California just approved a bill that would allow transgender students to use the bathrooms/locker rooms that fit the sex which they present themselves as (I ... More
I think it is opening up another avenue for kids to pick on and bully other kids. Say they allow this and a transgender person walks into the bathroom they feel comfortable in and then it starts the kids will be picking on that person horribly. Don't get me wrong I think it is a great idea they should be able to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in but they should also be allowed to live their life without being made fun of either and some where someone is going to screw it up for those that are transgender.
06/13/2013
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by tami
I think it is opening up another avenue for kids to pick on and bully other kids. Say they allow this and a transgender person walks into the bathroom they feel comfortable in and then it starts the kids will be picking on that person horribly. ... More
You know what though? If a kid is a bully it doesn't matter who you are, where you are, what you're wearing, where you came from and where you're going they will find a reason to make your life miserable if they think you're weaker than they are by any means.
06/13/2013
Mwar Mwar
Can't there just be a family restroom option? I see those ans they don't specify genders.

I get a bit... I dunno... when I think of some situations. I could see this as a way for not so nice people to take advantage of the system and harm people of all genders (this is independent of gender. I'm not saying one group or gender is more predatory or perverse or whatever than another. There will always be people who prey on others). As a cisfemale, I don't care if trans folks use the restroom, but I would worry about a predatory male who claims he identifies as female simply to do harm.

Then again, we shouldn't dismiss something just because there are bad people out there. We should be aware that there are people who could use the system to harm.
06/13/2013
bratcat bratcat
Quote:
Originally posted by Mwar
Can't there just be a family restroom option? I see those ans they don't specify genders.

I get a bit... I dunno... when I think of some situations. I could see this as a way for not so nice people to take advantage of the system and ... More
I feel the same way when it comes to having a gender neutral bathroom like "family bathroom" or free standing handicap restrooms, but it still is not really the most idealistic idea since these are single stalls and can easily erase ones identity. I think the teen show Degrassi did a really good job at addressing this issues in the episode of My Body Is A Cage prt 2; where a trans teen has to use the schools handicap bathroom where they were escorted there by a teacher. Being able to use the bathroom they felt most comfortable using helped in reaffirming, not only to them but to classmates, the character in their gender identity.
While the show is fictional, it is very relevant in showing how these are real issues, and helps put this into perspective.

I cant see creepy voyeuristic people being a norm when it comes to this, and im glad you address that we should not dismiss the importance of inclusionary bathrooms because of something that could happen.
06/14/2013
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Unique posters: 7