When you have a wife or girlfriend that does everything that she is required to do at home, why is it that their boyfriend or spouse still not satisfied
Why do men cheat when they have a good woman at home?
Why do men cheat when they have a good woman at home?
Quote:
Two different things to think about here...
Originally posted by
SHAY'S
When you have a wife or girlfriend that does everything that she is required to do at home, why is it that their boyfriend or spouse still not satisfied
01: I am not challenging the initial question, but are you insinuating that women don't?
02: I tend to compare human and animal behavior a lot, because let's face it, we ARE animals. Not that long ago I was thinking about how very few animals in nature are naturally monogamous. Also, what is best for the survival of a species is usually lots of sexual activity for both the male and female. Often in nature monogamy produces less offspring and less genetic diversity. So I do believe that as animals we are programmed to do this.
However... I am not defending cheating, and I do think it is very wrong. I am just saying that humans are animals, and very few people practice absolute control of all their impulses.
- Just some random thoughts on the topic
10/20/2009
Quote:
You assume that they're not satisfied. Some people cheat and would say they ARE satisfied at home. I think it's more complicated than that.
Originally posted by
SHAY'S
When you have a wife or girlfriend that does everything that she is required to do at home, why is it that their boyfriend or spouse still not satisfied
10/20/2009
...because lots of people aren't actually wired for monogamy, and furthermore don't actively choose it, but end up in that situation because its the societal norm. And because its the societal norm, it's not something that comes up over dinner "Hey hon, there's this hot chick at work that I am crazy attracted to" becomes a festering urge that sometimes gets out of hand.
Not that non monagomy makes the possibility of cheating non-existent. People can still cheat no matter what their relationship dynamic, for many many complicated reasons.
Not that non monagomy makes the possibility of cheating non-existent. People can still cheat no matter what their relationship dynamic, for many many complicated reasons.
10/20/2009
I agree with Gary, it's nature. You look to many animals in the wild and they reproduce with as many females as they can. Now that is simply for reproduction. As far as men go I sometimes think that 1. It could be the excitement of cheating,something new, the thrill of something you never had, and are not supposed to have (being in a monogamous relationship) 2. Just like us women who like a variety of toys, men seem to like a variety of pussy. Not that they are not satisfied and home or love their monogamous partner, it's that "notch on the belt" theory. There are a million reasons that someone would want to or has cheated it all depends on the person and their situation.
10/20/2009
I absolutely agree with everything said above, but I will add that if a male or female enters into a relationhsip with the understanding between both parties that it will be monogamous, then they should either abide by that, revise the rules of the game, or get out. Yes, humans are extremely complicated and so may do many ill-advised things for a number of reasons--thrill and excitement, danger, immaturity, curiosity, etc., but I think ultimately, cheating shows a lack of respect for the other party who entered into the contract. We call it "cheating" for a reason.
10/20/2009
Quote:
I 100% agree with "then they should either abide by that, revise the rules of the game, or get out"! Do any of you remember 'Cat's Eye'? I am thinking about the part where James Woods is trying to stop smoking.
Originally posted by
Raven
I absolutely agree with everything said above, but I will add that if a male or female enters into a relationhsip with the understanding between both parties that it will be monogamous, then they should either abide by that, revise the rules of the
...
I absolutely agree with everything said above, but I will add that if a male or female enters into a relationhsip with the understanding between both parties that it will be monogamous, then they should either abide by that, revise the rules of the game, or get out. Yes, humans are extremely complicated and so may do many ill-advised things for a number of reasons--thrill and excitement, danger, immaturity, curiosity, etc., but I think ultimately, cheating shows a lack of respect for the other party who entered into the contract. We call it "cheating" for a reason.
10/20/2009
I tire of the animal references. We are in control of our social and sexual urges. Murder, rape, theft are all driven by 'human needs' of various sorts.
In a human community every act CAN be controlled by the mind - crimes of passion not with standing - like insanity it's mostly a convenient excuse.
Keep your commitments - if that means monogamy - then that's what it means. If you can't handle monogamy then make other arrangements BEFORE taking actions in violation of vows and commitments - as the saying goes
MAN-UP - even if you're a woman!
In a human community every act CAN be controlled by the mind - crimes of passion not with standing - like insanity it's mostly a convenient excuse.
Keep your commitments - if that means monogamy - then that's what it means. If you can't handle monogamy then make other arrangements BEFORE taking actions in violation of vows and commitments - as the saying goes
MAN-UP - even if you're a woman!
10/20/2009
Quote:
I can't help but feel a bit iffed by this question. "does everything that she is required to do" ? Really? I have requirements? Maybe it's that attitude, that women have certain roles to fill in the house that would make a guy stray. I know I'd dip if my guy told me I had "womanly duties" or some crap like that.
Originally posted by
SHAY'S
When you have a wife or girlfriend that does everything that she is required to do at home, why is it that their boyfriend or spouse still not satisfied
10/20/2009
The only thing that I don't like about this post is that:
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are the only people who cheat on their partners, when that isn't the case at all.
Why do people cheat? Because there are people who do not know how to commit to one or more people, or commit to something in general, or do not WANT to commit to something. Many people are posting about how "oh, polygamy might come into play here," but people should know by now that polygamy is not cheating. Polygamy is ALSO a form of relationship where all parties should know about what's going on. People in polygamous relationships might also cheat, in fact.
Cheating is the lying, deceiving, wrong portion of a relationship. Not the, "Let's have an open relationship and talk this through so that we're both on the same page," part.
I agree that "animal instinct" does not even relatively matter with this subject. If a person lies to their partner(s), cheats on them, then that has nothing to do with animal instinct. Animal instinct is non-committal; if a person was so in-tune with their "animal instinct," then they wouldn't be in a relationship in the first place! Unless of course, they're into pony-play or doggy-play, but even then, cheating STILL doesn't have to do with that!
Aside from this, having a "good partner at home" has nothing to do with cheating. Generally speaking, a person doesn't cheat based off of their partner(s)' actions. They cheat because they have their own personal reasons, psychological, physical, plain stupidity.
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are the only people who cheat on their partners, when that isn't the case at all.
Why do people cheat? Because there are people who do not know how to commit to one or more people, or commit to something in general, or do not WANT to commit to something. Many people are posting about how "oh, polygamy might come into play here," but people should know by now that polygamy is not cheating. Polygamy is ALSO a form of relationship where all parties should know about what's going on. People in polygamous relationships might also cheat, in fact.
Cheating is the lying, deceiving, wrong portion of a relationship. Not the, "Let's have an open relationship and talk this through so that we're both on the same page," part.
I agree that "animal instinct" does not even relatively matter with this subject. If a person lies to their partner(s), cheats on them, then that has nothing to do with animal instinct. Animal instinct is non-committal; if a person was so in-tune with their "animal instinct," then they wouldn't be in a relationship in the first place! Unless of course, they're into pony-play or doggy-play, but even then, cheating STILL doesn't have to do with that!
Aside from this, having a "good partner at home" has nothing to do with cheating. Generally speaking, a person doesn't cheat based off of their partner(s)' actions. They cheat because they have their own personal reasons, psychological, physical, plain stupidity.
10/20/2009
Quote:
Some women do have things that they're required to do. My little girl does. But I agree with your statement, this person is making assumptions that are sexist to both men and women.
Originally posted by
Valyn
I can't help but feel a bit iffed by this question. "does everything that she is required to do" ? Really? I have requirements? Maybe it's that attitude, that women have certain roles to fill in the house that would make a guy stray. I know I'd dip
...
I can't help but feel a bit iffed by this question. "does everything that she is required to do" ? Really? I have requirements? Maybe it's that attitude, that women have certain roles to fill in the house that would make a guy stray. I know I'd dip if my guy told me I had "womanly duties" or some crap like that.
10/20/2009
Quote:
I agree with this! And I was certainly not trying to justify people doing crazy stuff because of animal instincts. I merely meant that we HAVE animal instincts. It is a conscious decision to lie.
Originally posted by
Sir
The only thing that I don't like about this post is that:
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are ...
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are ...
The only thing that I don't like about this post is that:
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are the only people who cheat on their partners, when that isn't the case at all.
Why do people cheat? Because there are people who do not know how to commit to one or more people, or commit to something in general, or do not WANT to commit to something. Many people are posting about how "oh, polygamy might come into play here," but people should know by now that polygamy is not cheating. Polygamy is ALSO a form of relationship where all parties should know about what's going on. People in polygamous relationships might also cheat, in fact.
Cheating is the lying, deceiving, wrong portion of a relationship. Not the, "Let's have an open relationship and talk this through so that we're both on the same page," part.
I agree that "animal instinct" does not even relatively matter with this subject. If a person lies to their partner(s), cheats on them, then that has nothing to do with animal instinct. Animal instinct is non-committal; if a person was so in-tune with their "animal instinct," then they wouldn't be in a relationship in the first place! Unless of course, they're into pony-play or doggy-play, but even then, cheating STILL doesn't have to do with that!
Aside from this, having a "good partner at home" has nothing to do with cheating. Generally speaking, a person doesn't cheat based off of their partner(s)' actions. They cheat because they have their own personal reasons, psychological, physical, plain stupidity.
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are the only people who cheat on their partners, when that isn't the case at all.
Why do people cheat? Because there are people who do not know how to commit to one or more people, or commit to something in general, or do not WANT to commit to something. Many people are posting about how "oh, polygamy might come into play here," but people should know by now that polygamy is not cheating. Polygamy is ALSO a form of relationship where all parties should know about what's going on. People in polygamous relationships might also cheat, in fact.
Cheating is the lying, deceiving, wrong portion of a relationship. Not the, "Let's have an open relationship and talk this through so that we're both on the same page," part.
I agree that "animal instinct" does not even relatively matter with this subject. If a person lies to their partner(s), cheats on them, then that has nothing to do with animal instinct. Animal instinct is non-committal; if a person was so in-tune with their "animal instinct," then they wouldn't be in a relationship in the first place! Unless of course, they're into pony-play or doggy-play, but even then, cheating STILL doesn't have to do with that!
Aside from this, having a "good partner at home" has nothing to do with cheating. Generally speaking, a person doesn't cheat based off of their partner(s)' actions. They cheat because they have their own personal reasons, psychological, physical, plain stupidity.
10/20/2009
Quote:
I agree that we do, but I also feel that as a human race we've sort of leaped over the bounds of instincts at this point because of our development. Sexually, I understand that sometimes we do, as I am very animalistic myself, but to allow the instinctual part to come out a person has to expose themselves to something that they shouldn't be doing in the first place if they're in a committed relationship.
Originally posted by
Gary
I agree with this! And I was certainly not trying to justify people doing crazy stuff because of animal instincts. I merely meant that we HAVE animal instincts. It is a conscious decision to lie.
10/20/2009
Quote:
Thank for responding. No i'm not saying that women don't cheat but it is rare if she is happy at home.
Originally posted by
Gary
Two different things to think about here...
01: I am not challenging the initial question, but are you insinuating that women don't?
02: I tend to compare human and animal behavior a lot, because let's face it, we ARE animals. Not that ...
01: I am not challenging the initial question, but are you insinuating that women don't?
02: I tend to compare human and animal behavior a lot, because let's face it, we ARE animals. Not that ...
Two different things to think about here...
01: I am not challenging the initial question, but are you insinuating that women don't?
02: I tend to compare human and animal behavior a lot, because let's face it, we ARE animals. Not that long ago I was thinking about how very few animals in nature are naturally monogamous. Also, what is best for the survival of a species is usually lots of sexual activity for both the male and female. Often in nature monogamy produces less offspring and less genetic diversity. So I do believe that as animals we are programmed to do this.
However... I am not defending cheating, and I do think it is very wrong. I am just saying that humans are animals, and very few people practice absolute control of all their impulses.
- Just some random thoughts on the topic
01: I am not challenging the initial question, but are you insinuating that women don't?
02: I tend to compare human and animal behavior a lot, because let's face it, we ARE animals. Not that long ago I was thinking about how very few animals in nature are naturally monogamous. Also, what is best for the survival of a species is usually lots of sexual activity for both the male and female. Often in nature monogamy produces less offspring and less genetic diversity. So I do believe that as animals we are programmed to do this.
However... I am not defending cheating, and I do think it is very wrong. I am just saying that humans are animals, and very few people practice absolute control of all their impulses.
- Just some random thoughts on the topic
10/20/2009
Quote:
Thats the thing I have found a lot of men that say everything is fine at home yet they don't know why they cheat.
Originally posted by
Adriana Ravenlust
You assume that they're not satisfied. Some people cheat and would say they ARE satisfied at home. I think it's more complicated than that.
10/20/2009
Quote:
I am aware that women and men cheat and for several different reason, Usually when I ask a cheating man why they cheat and knowing personally wht type of wife they have at home my most popular answer is " I DON'T KNOW". I figured by posting this question it would give us all women and men a little more insite.
Originally posted by
Sir
The only thing that I don't like about this post is that:
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are ...
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are ...
The only thing that I don't like about this post is that:
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are the only people who cheat on their partners, when that isn't the case at all.
Why do people cheat? Because there are people who do not know how to commit to one or more people, or commit to something in general, or do not WANT to commit to something. Many people are posting about how "oh, polygamy might come into play here," but people should know by now that polygamy is not cheating. Polygamy is ALSO a form of relationship where all parties should know about what's going on. People in polygamous relationships might also cheat, in fact.
Cheating is the lying, deceiving, wrong portion of a relationship. Not the, "Let's have an open relationship and talk this through so that we're both on the same page," part.
I agree that "animal instinct" does not even relatively matter with this subject. If a person lies to their partner(s), cheats on them, then that has nothing to do with animal instinct. Animal instinct is non-committal; if a person was so in-tune with their "animal instinct," then they wouldn't be in a relationship in the first place! Unless of course, they're into pony-play or doggy-play, but even then, cheating STILL doesn't have to do with that!
Aside from this, having a "good partner at home" has nothing to do with cheating. Generally speaking, a person doesn't cheat based off of their partner(s)' actions. They cheat because they have their own personal reasons, psychological, physical, plain stupidity.
The person who posted it spoke of women like they all just sit home and cook and clean, when even submissive women sometimes aren't that way.
They also made it seem as if men are the only people who cheat on their partners, when that isn't the case at all.
Why do people cheat? Because there are people who do not know how to commit to one or more people, or commit to something in general, or do not WANT to commit to something. Many people are posting about how "oh, polygamy might come into play here," but people should know by now that polygamy is not cheating. Polygamy is ALSO a form of relationship where all parties should know about what's going on. People in polygamous relationships might also cheat, in fact.
Cheating is the lying, deceiving, wrong portion of a relationship. Not the, "Let's have an open relationship and talk this through so that we're both on the same page," part.
I agree that "animal instinct" does not even relatively matter with this subject. If a person lies to their partner(s), cheats on them, then that has nothing to do with animal instinct. Animal instinct is non-committal; if a person was so in-tune with their "animal instinct," then they wouldn't be in a relationship in the first place! Unless of course, they're into pony-play or doggy-play, but even then, cheating STILL doesn't have to do with that!
Aside from this, having a "good partner at home" has nothing to do with cheating. Generally speaking, a person doesn't cheat based off of their partner(s)' actions. They cheat because they have their own personal reasons, psychological, physical, plain stupidity.
Women we are emotional so just about everything that we do is based on our emotions. When you ask a woman why she cheats you get answers like, " my husband dose not hold me the way he use to or he acts as if im not even their or he beats me." For what ever reason when you ask a women 9 times out of 10 you get an straight answer. So my question was to see if anyone had a reason for men other then I don't know. That answer usually come from the men with a perfect or almost perfect wife.
10/20/2009
Quote:
Perfect is subjective.
Originally posted by
SHAY'S
I am aware that women and men cheat and for several different reason, Usually when I ask a cheating man why they cheat and knowing personally wht type of wife they have at home my most popular answer is " I DON'T KNOW". I figured by posting this
...
I am aware that women and men cheat and for several different reason, Usually when I ask a cheating man why they cheat and knowing personally wht type of wife they have at home my most popular answer is " I DON'T KNOW". I figured by posting this question it would give us all women and men a little more insite.
Women we are emotional so just about everything that we do is based on our emotions. When you ask a woman why she cheats you get answers like, " my husband dose not hold me the way he use to or he acts as if im not even their or he beats me." For what ever reason when you ask a women 9 times out of 10 you get an straight answer. So my question was to see if anyone had a reason for men other then I don't know. That answer usually come from the men with a perfect or almost perfect wife.
Women we are emotional so just about everything that we do is based on our emotions. When you ask a woman why she cheats you get answers like, " my husband dose not hold me the way he use to or he acts as if im not even their or he beats me." For what ever reason when you ask a women 9 times out of 10 you get an straight answer. So my question was to see if anyone had a reason for men other then I don't know. That answer usually come from the men with a perfect or almost perfect wife.
Also, I don't agree that women are more emotional than men, I just think that sometimes people choose to express themselves differently.
10/20/2009
Quote:
Quite honestly, I've never had a woman give me a straight answer about anything. So I have no idea what you're talking about. That doesn't mean that I would say that all women don't know why they do things, like you're saying about men. It just simply means that the women who I've encountered didn't know why they did those things.
Originally posted by
SHAY'S
I am aware that women and men cheat and for several different reason, Usually when I ask a cheating man why they cheat and knowing personally wht type of wife they have at home my most popular answer is " I DON'T KNOW". I figured by posting this
...
I am aware that women and men cheat and for several different reason, Usually when I ask a cheating man why they cheat and knowing personally wht type of wife they have at home my most popular answer is " I DON'T KNOW". I figured by posting this question it would give us all women and men a little more insite.
Women we are emotional so just about everything that we do is based on our emotions. When you ask a woman why she cheats you get answers like, " my husband dose not hold me the way he use to or he acts as if im not even their or he beats me." For what ever reason when you ask a women 9 times out of 10 you get an straight answer. So my question was to see if anyone had a reason for men other then I don't know. That answer usually come from the men with a perfect or almost perfect wife.
Women we are emotional so just about everything that we do is based on our emotions. When you ask a woman why she cheats you get answers like, " my husband dose not hold me the way he use to or he acts as if im not even their or he beats me." For what ever reason when you ask a women 9 times out of 10 you get an straight answer. So my question was to see if anyone had a reason for men other then I don't know. That answer usually come from the men with a perfect or almost perfect wife.
10/20/2009
Anthropology would explain it as women can only carry one full womb at a time and are more careful with choosing a mate -esp as a provider type, and men are hardwired to "inseminateas many females as possible" both in the human and animal world. Generally, they do not have to spend all their time and effort raising them.
Men also like variety.
Men also like variety.
10/20/2009
Quote:
Yeah, that line bothered me a bit as well.
Originally posted by
Valyn
I can't help but feel a bit iffed by this question. "does everything that she is required to do" ? Really? I have requirements? Maybe it's that attitude, that women have certain roles to fill in the house that would make a guy stray. I know I'd dip
...
I can't help but feel a bit iffed by this question. "does everything that she is required to do" ? Really? I have requirements? Maybe it's that attitude, that women have certain roles to fill in the house that would make a guy stray. I know I'd dip if my guy told me I had "womanly duties" or some crap like that.
10/21/2009
Quote:
I have to agree with this. I hardly ever give straight answers. I'm just a timid person, and I like making the man think. Serious things, I try to give straight answers about.
Originally posted by
Sir
Quite honestly, I've never had a woman give me a straight answer about anything. So I have no idea what you're talking about. That doesn't mean that I would say that all women don't know why they do things, like you're saying about men. It just
...
Quite honestly, I've never had a woman give me a straight answer about anything. So I have no idea what you're talking about. That doesn't mean that I would say that all women don't know why they do things, like you're saying about men. It just simply means that the women who I've encountered didn't know why they did those things.
On the subject of this, I have cheated before. When I had a perfectly good man who made me happy. I did it because we never got to see each other and I was having a hard time breaking it off with my 'friend with benefits' so the benefits continues two or three times when they should not have. Sometimes my now-fiance would be gone for weeks or over a month. He's not in the military, his family would keep him away from me. I would assume perhaps he had grown tired of me and did not have the gall to break it off. I know what I did is wrong, and I did stop, but those are my reasons.
I think that you saying the reasons women cheat and trying to act like you know most of the reasons is kinda bullcrap. Women and men are both capable of being just as bad. I also don't think there is such a thing as a perfect wife. I know I am not a perfect girlfriend. I just said why up there. I am hoping at some point I can get the balls to tell him what I did and that he will forgive me, but it is likely I wont ever discuss it unless a similar situation comes up with him because I do not want to break his heart.
I know this makes me terrible but I plan to make up for it by being the best for him that I can be and supporting him through everything he does and I have made a resolve to be completely faithful now.
As far as why men cheat, mostly when they have cheated on me, it was because someone else made them feel nice, or they were bored with me. That is what they ended up telling me. I have never had a man outright lie and never tell me the reason behind such a decision. Men will usually give it up if you ask enough.
10/21/2009
Quote:
I am not understanding what "some women do have things they are required to do. " Is this a law written somewhere or in a personal contract? Do men have things "they are required to do?" I did not get that in a handbook for becoming a US citizen.
Originally posted by
Sir
Some women do have things that they're required to do. My little girl does. But I agree with your statement, this person is making assumptions that are sexist to both men and women.
I thought all people were required to die and pay taxes and that is where it ends....
10/21/2009
Quote:
I'm confused on this issue myself. If anybody gets a copy of that handbook, please send me one--- it ought to make for a good laugh or two here.
Originally posted by
Misha's Amusements
I am not understanding what "some women do have things they are required to do. " Is this a law written somewhere or in a personal contract? Do men have things "they are required to do?" I did not get that in a handbook for becoming a US citizen.
...
I am not understanding what "some women do have things they are required to do. " Is this a law written somewhere or in a personal contract? Do men have things "they are required to do?" I did not get that in a handbook for becoming a US citizen.
I thought all people were required to die and pay taxes and that is where it ends....
I thought all people were required to die and pay taxes and that is where it ends....
10/22/2009
Quote:
Not necessarily true that being happy= rarely cheating. I have a few friends that have cheated (female) and they are more than happy at home. I myself struggled with the issue a few years ago because for me sex and love are two very different things, and I like variety. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't share my view on the subject, so I had to do some deep thinking about whether or not I could live with hurting the one man who made me happy. It turned out that I couldn't, so I never did cheat, but it was a close call.
Originally posted by
SHAY'S
Thank for responding. No i'm not saying that women don't cheat but it is rare if she is happy at home.
10/22/2009
Lots of good points made above. I've vaguely entertained thoughts of cheating before but never came close to following through with it. In terms of the "because we're hard-wired/it's how animals do it" argument, that might explain why individuals may * want * to cheat. Whether or not they actually do the deed is the result of their thought process (or lack thereof) after the initial idea strikes. It varies according to the individual, regardless of gender, and depends on their moral compass and how they interpret the "rules" of their relationship. Asking someone isn't the most accurate way of ascertaining their reason for cheating. Some may be ashamed because their reason seems irrational after the fact, so they'll cover it up with "I don't know", or they'll try to justify it with something that sounds "better".
Regardless, it doesn't matter how "good" the woman at home is. If a man decides to cheat, he'll have found his own justification, no matter how bad it sounds. Besides, this question implies that "bad" women deserve to be cheated on. Cheating is always wrong.
Regardless, it doesn't matter how "good" the woman at home is. If a man decides to cheat, he'll have found his own justification, no matter how bad it sounds. Besides, this question implies that "bad" women deserve to be cheated on. Cheating is always wrong.
10/22/2009
Quote:
I was talking about Master/slave, Dominant/submissive, and other relationships. I am not sure why you and Misha answered like you did.
Originally posted by
Alan & Michele
I'm confused on this issue myself. If anybody gets a copy of that handbook, please send me one--- it ought to make for a good laugh or two here.
Some people do have things they're supposed to do, as designated by their owner. (Male, female, or other, it does not matter.)
10/22/2009
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