Am I wrong by doing this??

Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama
First of all, I'm a big big fan of the mentor program and hopefully will graduate soon. I deliberately asked my mentors to keep me as a student longer so I could get their help and expertise while I got comfortable. I have to say - that I wish that folks HAD to go through the mentor program to become advance reviewers - but that's my own private soapbox.

Anyway, I have started doing more comments on reviews than before -not just "great review" but explaining what I liked or didn't like.

For instance, I read a review earlier tonight where I liked the product but it was too large for the reviewer (a vibrator) to use internally. She had given the length and the batteries, etc. but I marked it "useful" because she didn't give the diameter (which could make a difference to someone like me) and the type of product it was made of.

In the comments, I pointed those two things out AND also gave the diameter since I went to the product information page to get more information.

It turns out that the vibrator is 1 3/4" diameter. I can understand why it might have been hard to use - I personally think that might be hard for a newbie and I've only worked up to that recently. I think having that in the review would explain why it wouldn't insert easily, etc.

Am I right in making suggestions like that (I've also recommended that folks consider the mentoring program)? If I like someone's style - I'm quick to tell them, "I like your writing style" and I try to put as much positive as I do negative so that it isn't just like "you did a horrible job".

Anyway - should I stop doing that? Does that come across as me being arrogant or helpful? My aim is to be helpful to newer reviewers because I found that comments like that really helped me a lot - whether they came from my mentor or comments on my reviews.
10/20/2011
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chicken12 chicken12
This is a tricky question because I think there are definitely certain circumstances in which it would be appropriate to recommend the mentor program, but I think it depends on what one's definition of what the mentoring program is supposed to be for.

For example, I view the mentoring program as something people who are poor with grammar or sentence structure would benefit from, or people who really have no idea what to write down. Based on that definition, I would only recommend the program to people who had sloppy writing or poor sentence structure.

Someone recommended me to the mentor program (it might have been you, actually (no animosity <3 ). I wasn't offended or anything. It's just that I felt I didn't need the mentoring program. I didn't include certain things (materials and such), not because I wasn't able to, but because I didn't think it was important.

However, if someone views the mentoring program as a way of getting the user familiar with the expectations and interests of *this particular community*, then they might be more inclined to recommend the program when a person doesn't meet expectations (i.e., doesn't include a particular thing in a review).

This is a bit of an aside, and it's my own personal opinion (I'm not disagreeing with how others thing), but I judge the standard review format and the extended review format in separate ways. I don't expect the standard review to be as broadly covering as the extended review format is. I would penalize the extended review for skipping over how many batteries the toy has, but not the more general type of review. But again, it's just my own thing.
10/20/2011
Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama
I know I recommended the mentoring program to you - but then again - I have written professionally before (in another area) and been published in magazines and STILL needed to go the mentor route because it taught me what the community expects in reviews.

Anyway - I'm curious to find out what others think. So many of the folks on here were so encouraging to me when I first joined and several stated that they loved my review but they'd love to see me join the mentor program and wow - what a difference it has made. I can see it in each of my reviews and even as I look at products for upcoming reviews.

I do know that for me - even if a review is the standard review format and not the extended format - I will not give it any higher than a useful if it doesn't have the batteries, size, diameter, type of product, etc. in the review. Why? Because to me - the reviews are there to help me know the product without flipping back and forth between the product page and the review page.

Anyway - curious to hear what others say.
10/20/2011
- Kira - - Kira -
I probably wouldn't have given the information. I usually just ask. ("What was the diameter?") That gets the person thinking about what was left out rather than telling them what was. I think that comes across as more helpful and less Hermonie Granger-ish (to me, anyway).

My first few reviews really sucked. People commented asking follow up questions and I read other reviews and picked up from that what information should be included in reviews. I think that by asking me questions about products I reviewed it was easier for me to think about what I should include for my next review.

So basically, yes, I think it's good to help out and point out what was left out. However, I think you just have to be extra careful about the way it's worded so as to be helpful and not something else.

I am in the mentor program right now for lingerie reviews because I wasn't as sure of what information would be considered helpful. I think the mentor program is a great was to flesh out reviewing skills for anyone, not just brand new people. I've been here about a month and written just under 25 reviews and I just signed up for the program. I was an English major for three years so I don't think I have any particular issues forming a sentence. I did it to make my reviews better. One can always improve, no matter how good you are.
10/20/2011
AndroAngel AndroAngel
When I look at a review, I'm looking for information not on the product page. I don't care too much if they cover diameter, etc, because I've already considered those things if I've moved on to the review. I'm looking for material "feel", ease and comfort of use, and any other information that isn't standard on the product page, as well as personal opinions on the product.
10/20/2011
Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama
Exactly. I am about to graduate to advanced reviewer but already toying around with asking someone else to mentor me on my next two reviews (which I almost have written) simply so I can get a different perspective on them. There are a few reviewers whose style and work I like and I need to see if they're mentors.

I figure that since the reviews are almost done - it probably wouldn't take them very long to read through them and just give me their input.

At least - I hope that is true!
10/20/2011
Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama
Quote:
Originally posted by AndroAngel
When I look at a review, I'm looking for information not on the product page. I don't care too much if they cover diameter, etc, because I've already considered those things if I've moved on to the review. I'm looking for material ... More
Neat perspective. I only go to the product information page after I've read a few reviews and have an idea of size, etc.
10/20/2011
Miss Zombie Miss Zombie
My honest opinion...

I am always open to suggestions, but I think sometimes it's a little much. I think posting the information to their review is a bit over the top. To me it seems like you are correcting them, when it's not really asked for. I think saying something like "Your review could have included a few extra details, adding the diameter would be helpful info" would be sufficient.

Also, suggesting the mentor program to reviewers can be taken as an insult to some people. Wording is everything.
10/21/2011
TitsMcScandal TitsMcScandal
Eh, I am half and half on this. I think that stating facts like circumference and material can sometimes be redundant. If someone wants to read each and ever spec- they can go to the product info page. That's what the product page is there for. Reviews I think don't need that information. I've read plenty of reviews that have all the product specs that are boring, dry, and feel just like reading the product page with nothing really new. It doesn't matter as long as I get a feel for the toy itself.
10/21/2011
Kkay Kkay
I tend to not think of it as necessary to include things that are on the product info page, in part because it's clearly lined out and easily accessible on the page, and it won't be in even the most structured of reviews.

As for mentioning the mentoring program, I think it's good advice. Mentoring offers a great deal outside of grammar, etc. I didn't need someone to tell me how to write when I joined, but I did need someone to guide me through the community and what was expected in reviews.
10/21/2011
closed account closed account
when giving someone feedback, it's the cliche, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Someone once gave me detailed feedback. She did so via message, which I think was more appropriate because of the details. I appreciated it and learned from her advice and corrections. Her suggestions actual pop into my head when I'm writng a review.
10/21/2011
sktb0007 sktb0007
Like others have mentioned, I don't feel it's neccesary to put all the information in your review that is already on the product page. I mean, it's all layed out for you beautifully right there on the product page. That being said, I do add it in my reviews because I know people will ask the diameter, etc etc even if it is readily available in the product page info. It's not a huge deal for me to add that little bit of extra info, but if someone doesn't add it in their review, I won't rate their review any less useful.

I also think it depends on how you approach your "constructive criticism" to the review you comment on. I mean, you may be trying to help, but the new user may feel like you are bashing them (or any negative feelings that can be derived from misinterpreting your intentions).

Also, I'd prefer receiving criticism from someone with a 9.something ranking like Lauren because she's got over 500 reviews. She knows what she is doing. Someone with a lower ranking, well, I'd probably take it a bit worse than an experienced, well-established EF community member.

This of course, is all my opinion. I have no idea which reviews you commented on and how you commented. It's just hard to tell the tone,etc of someone's comment so it's too easily misinterpreted by the receiver. I hope all this rambling helped out in some way lol
10/21/2011
Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama
Y'all did help a lot. I guess its partly the mothering/homeschoolin g background that makes me like this - especially since others treated me a little bit like that at first.
10/21/2011
Midway through Midway through
I think the comments are fine. I would encourage it. I hate seeing review comments that literally say "thanks for the review" or "good/great review" and that's it. I think there's always room for improvement, and it's so helpful to read review comments (at least in my experience). I typically recommend the mentor program if the person has atrocious grammar and the review was just "I like this toy. It was great." and then some random other words to fill in the required amount of words for the review.
10/21/2011
Jul!a Jul!a
I've recommended the mentor program to people when I thought the reviews were really lacking. Like bare minimum barely covered anything. I know that very thorough and well written reviews can be just barely over the minimum word count, but often times a review that's the bare minimum isn't usually very helpful. Then again one that's super long isn't always helpful either. That's also a completely different story.

Asking what the diameter of something is is perfectly acceptable, but telling them what it is from the product page seems a bit over the top to me. We really aren't required to add in all the dimensions and what not because they are all available on the product page and while I do most of the time, I don't hold it against anybody who doesn't. Especially with tabbed browsing in this day and age. I can read through the review and then check out the product page for measurements if I really want.

You're fine to offer constructive criticism in comments, or to message the reviewer, but always be careful to keep it constructive. "Hey, I just read your review on___ and I think it would be really helpful if you covered ___ in your reviews, since I came away not entirely sure." or something like that. I've gotten constructive criticism messaged to me even recently, and you know what? It helped make my reviews better, so I was happy to have it. That's just my opinion though
10/21/2011
Ansley Ansley
All very good and thorough points above mine, this is why I love this community.

I don't think it's wrong to suggest anything to anyone, but I do agree that it has to be carefully worded. It can come across as aggressive or off-putting and some people don't take even the smallest amount of criticism nicely, no matter how beneficial it may seem.

Some reviewers spoil their readers and include every detail in infinite detail. Some don't. That's also why I love this community.

And a heads up on the details on these product pages: They're not always accurate. And you'll find that with any website...a lot of it is direct copy from the mfg. who may or may not have measured the actual product and just went with what the plans said the end result would be. I can't remember which one it was, but one of my dildos was thinner than I expected and the other much thicker than I anticipated.

Anyway, there's no harm in asking a question about something the reviewer didn't cover. I, personally, always err on the side of caution and don't say anything if I feel the reviewer didn't put all of their best effort forward. There have been times when I had to get a review out and I didn't give it my best, but I also had a ton of other things going on at the time. You just never know what's going on in that person's life and some of the new reviewers don't understand the weight of their reviews on the community as a whole. They'll either get with the program (harhar) or bounce. But, I wouldn't want to influence their decision, either way.
10/21/2011
wrecklesswords wrecklesswords
I have a question then. Is it acceptable to re-write a review that we've already written if we feel that we could have done it better? I know that for a while, the edit button stays next to the review so that we can fix anything we need to on there, but what about after that time period has lapsed?

Anyway, on topic:
I like it when people ask me questions in the comments on my reviews. Like maybe something I missed or something that they are really interested in. I appreciate comments of any kind, but seeing "thanks for the review" or "great review" gets kind of old. Substance! lol!

Maybe posting the information you are looking for in the review is a little much, but otherwise, I think it's helpful and good to ask questions and let the reviewer think about what they could do better next time.
10/21/2011
sktb0007 sktb0007
I'm surprised that a few people have mentioned that they get sick of hearing "thanks for the review" "great job", etc etc For me personally, I don't think I could ever get sick of seeing a new comment like that on any of my reviews. It makes me feel happy and makes me feel like I did a really great review, where the person doesn't need to ask questions because I've covered everything they could possibly want to know! Maybe that is not the case, but I just cannot imagine being tired of seeing positive comments on my reviews, regardless of the length of them.
10/23/2011
Diabolical Kitty Diabolical Kitty
I ask questions instead of telling them certain things. Makes me and others think more.
10/23/2011
wrecklesswords wrecklesswords
Quote:
Originally posted by sktb0007
I'm surprised that a few people have mentioned that they get sick of hearing "thanks for the review" "great job", etc etc For me personally, I don't think I could ever get sick of seeing a new comment like that on any of ... More
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that people are actually commenting and reading on there. I do like that. Because when I see one of my reviews with very few comments on it (or none) it does make me sad.

I dunno, I'm just weird like that, though.
10/24/2011
wetone123 wetone123
My 1st mentor told me to write my reviews as if there were no other information available. I always keep that in mind while writing, so I do put all info, measurements, etc. in the review. I've gotten some bad feedback on doing it this way, but much more praise than anything.

When reading a review, I've come to expect all the info to be there, as I do not care to flip back and forth to find product info. If I have to leave the review to find out what the diameter of a toy is- I do not come back to the review. I move on to one that does have all the info it should.

In the past, I have tried to encourage some to seek the Mentor Program, but have been slammed by the reviewer for suggesting it. Now, I do not bother to try and tell someone who is just here for the free toys how to better their reviews. If they truly want to be a better reviewer, they will go through the Mentor Program.
10/24/2011
Beck Beck
My first mentor told me to write as if I was trying to describe to an alien. I have always thought about. I recommend the mentor program mostly to newer members. I do not think it is at all wrong to ask questions or recommend. When I read a review, I try to think of as many questions as I possibly can. If I can not then, that is an extremely useful review.

I usually do say "I recommend the mentoring program to you, if you find it helpful learning from others." And even post link to the list for them.
10/24/2011
Beck Beck
Quote:
Originally posted by sktb0007
I'm surprised that a few people have mentioned that they get sick of hearing "thanks for the review" "great job", etc etc For me personally, I don't think I could ever get sick of seeing a new comment like that on any of ... More
I love to see great job or whatever on my reviews. That means I have made the reader happy and answered all of their questions.
10/24/2011
Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama
Thanks to everyone for your posts and comments. I think I've reached the point where I will not recommend the mentor program unless a person seems open to it. I think a lot of newbies write their reviews and go "there I did good" without knowing much about what the more experienced folks write and they sorta think they know it all. Don't know - guess I'm discouraged? I see this attitude a lot in real life too especially among younger folks (then again - at 51 - most folks ARE younger than me).

However, I'm not giving up on commenting on reviews and telling reviewers what I liked about their review.
10/24/2011
P'Gell P'Gell
The mentoring program is not just to learn "how to write." It's "How to write specific kinds of reviews for THIS website and its readers and shoppers."

I often suggest the Mentor Program, especially if there are spelling or syntax errors or the review is too general and maybe the person doesn't realize the detail and specifics that most Eden Advanced Reviewers go to in their reviews.

When I joined Eden I read a lot of reviews here, to get the Gestalt of the site, the way the program worked and how things were done here. I had written professionally before, and even written reviews for many things, but I hadn't written for Eden yet. I educated myself and took all suggestions to heart. I didn't go through the Mentor Program, myself, but I did make sure I did EIGHT reviews and was here for 8 weeks before I asked for an upgrade to Advanced Reviewer, because I felt I needed to be schooled in the way of the site.

If someone thinks it's an "insult" that someone else cares enough about their work to suggest help for them, they are being much too thin skinned and are going to be even MORE "insulted" when their reviews are not voted on well. Everyone has room for improvement, and no one should be above either self schooling (by reading, asking questions etc) or going through a completely FREE writing course, done by people who know the what needs to be contained in an extremely useful review in detail.

I often will ask people in the comment section questions about things they may have contained in their review. I rarely give them the answer (unless it's something obvious, like calling a toy "rubber" and it's clearly marked as silicone etc) I then suggest using the Mentor Program as a way for them to learn courtesy of the site itself. If they feel they don't need it (yet are still getting low votes on their reviews) they are welcome to their own opinions of their own work. But, offering help should never be taken as an "insult."

Everyone has room for improvement, and I think by suggesting ways to help people write more effectively is helpful, not hurtful.
10/24/2011
Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
The mentoring program is not just to learn "how to write." It's "How to write specific kinds of reviews for THIS website and its readers and shoppers."

I often suggest the Mentor Program, especially if there are ... More
I think you have more tact than I do - or at least are not as thin-skinned as I am when people reply as if they're offended.

I waited till I had five reviews done - four with my mentors - to ask them to graduate me. I felt like it was well worth getting their input and help.

Anyway - I'll let you handle the newbies because I just don't wanna do it anymore (I will still welcome them!).
10/24/2011
Lickable Lollie Lickable Lollie
I was going to read through all of the other posts before I gave my opinion but wow, there are a lot. So I'll just give my opinion anyway! :-D I think it's good that you leave comments about reviews and that you rate them accordingly. I think that a lot of people rate and comment on reviews just to get points but when they do that, they aren't helping the reviewer get better. If information is left out that people find necessary, it should be mentioned. I wrote my first two reviews not knowing what I was doing and I had a few people tell me that I was missing certain things and that I should join the mentor program...so I did! My next review will have gone through a mentor, so you guys can see the difference. :-D
10/24/2011
LQ LQ
Quote:
Originally posted by Hot 'N Sexy TexasMama
I know I recommended the mentoring program to you - but then again - I have written professionally before (in another area) and been published in magazines and STILL needed to go the mentor route because it taught me what the community expects in ... More
"...I will not give it any higher than a useful if it doesn't have the batteries, size, diameter, type of product, etc. in the review. Why? Because to me - the reviews are there to help me know the product without flipping back and forth between the product page and the review page."

Working on a full reply to your various posts, but in the meanwhile... Not sure why opening a second window is such a problem anyway, but you can, in fact, see the product information sheet while on a review page. Just mouse over the Product Information link/icon on the left. No flipping back and forth required. Screenshot

So, giving a review a lower rating for not repeating the product sheet information is a bit strange. Additionally, I've read probably a couple hundred reviews now, many by highly rated reviewers, 500 club people, etc. and very few of them actually repeat the stats in the review. There's no reason to.
10/24/2011
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by LQ
"...I will not give it any higher than a useful if it doesn't have the batteries, size, diameter, type of product, etc. in the review. Why? Because to me - the reviews are there to help me know the product without flipping back and forth ... More
"500 club people?" There is only one reviewer who has 500 or more reviews. One. And she often includes the basic stats in her reviews. (And she has stated that she sometimes finds the Product Page's stats are not on the mark.)

I agree with Texas Mama, I do not care to flip, tab or hoover to go back and forth. I prefer the info to be in the review. It takes a line or two. It isn't hard to get out a tape measure, measure the toy and include it in the review. (Hell, I take pictures for my reviews with the tape measure IN them.)

I think it adds to the review, especially when someone says something like "It's a normal sized dildo." (I have NO idea what "normal" means to him or her without a size listed) or "It's too big." (What does "too big" mean to them?) and sometimes especially with newer toys, the product page stats come from the manufacturer and until someone reviews the toy, does a DR and submits a Ticket to the Admin, the Product Page stats are sometimes wrong.

I always take more detailed reviews into account when voting. It may not be a "requirement" to list the stats, but especially with newer toys, I think it is important.
10/25/2011
LQ LQ
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
"500 club people?" There is only one reviewer who has 500 or more reviews. One. And she often includes the basic stats in her reviews. (And she has stated that she sometimes finds the Product Page's stats are not on the mark.)

I ... More
Eh, I guess I was thinking of people with 200 reviews, 100 reviews... Same point though. There are excellent reviews & reviewers that don't include stats. There are also reviews & reviewers that include them, but are less informative overall.

Personally, I look at reviews for information that I can’t get from product info. & numerical data – how the item smells, what it feels like, etc. By all means, reviews should mention measurements & such if they’re significant or if there’s an error in the product information. If you say a vibe is “large,” it makes sense to include the measurements. If you mention something being a battery hog, mentioning the type of battery is logical. But, personally, I’m not upset because the reviewer didn’t mention both the diameter and the circumference. Moving my mouse a bit to check a stat doesn’t bother me.

(You do have a good point about newer items, which is something I hadn’t thought of, so I’ll keep that in mind.)
10/25/2011
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