Is it objective? (Epiphora's challenge)

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Is it objective? (Epiphora's challenge)

Dragon Dragon
OK. I want feedback. I'm throwing myself to the wolves for dinner.

I'm not part of the descriptions program, and don't want to be. I actually admire those of you that are. However, I'm a believer that you can write objective reviews.

This toy was perfect for this. It's something that I never would have bought or chosen. I took one look at it and said "NOPE." It sat around for over 2 months as well.

I was right, I really didn't like it. It's already in the trashcan. I admit the title itself isn't really objective, but then it's not actually part of the descriptions program, and that entire toy made me shake because I kept thinking about disco balls and flashing lights.
02/08/2009
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Dragon Dragon
Right. It's a review for the Symphony Interlude Vibrator.

Distraction rules my life.
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
And to be completely difficult. I rewrote Betty Rocket's review in my own style in a way that I personally would find as objective. I don't want to get into the logistics of if/why she was not given the option to rewrite that review. That's between her and Eden.

I want feedback on my own version of it! This is using her review, because I haven't actually reviewed the toy. The goal would be an objective/descriptions type review.

Title: Are you up for a rigid challenge?
Summary: Beautiful, strong, and very rigid. External vibrations were fantastic, but that’s as far as I’m letting it go!
Pros: Silicone, splash-proof, vibrations are quite strong
Cons: Very rigid- maybe too hard for some.
Review:
The Bliss #8 is another in the Ophoria collection of unique traditional vibrators. Ophoria is a luxury product line from Lover's Choice, a large "intimate products" manufacturer.

The Bliss is, without a doubt, a beautiful piece. A seven inch, 100% silicone shaft covered with rings that vary in location and curve. The rings are pronounced. There is nothing subtle about them! The texture of the Bliss is very smooth. The rings and shaft are not pliable in any way though. I tried squeezing them with my hand.

The control is a push button located at the end of the vibe. Two AA batteries are inserted simply, and the battery compartment appears to be quite secure. This vibe is silicone, so be sure to use only water based lubricants. It is very easy to clean and splash-proof. (not immersible)

The Bliss has five different vibrating functions. The very first time I pressed the button, the vibe immediately went to a roller coaster type function, completely skipping a normal function. It took me about three tries of turning it off and on again to get the normal droning vibration I wanted. It was a little noisy, but easily concealed.

Experience:
After about fifteen minutes of warming myself up, I arranged myself in a comfortable position and attempted to take on this strange looking toy. Application straight to my clit was heavenly, the intensity of the vibration and the functions were on point. So far, so good....I lubed the vibe up quite well, and prepared for glory.

Not so much....

I managed to get two inches of this vibe inside of me, but the popping sensation of the rings squeezing past my vaginal walls truly made me cringe. My pussy clamped down on this thing, refusing to allow it any further access. It packed up it's necessary lubrication, closed the door, and kicked the Bliss right out.

If I think about it, maybe I had psyched myself out. Perhaps my vagina was just reacting to the mental block I had built when I first took it out of the package. I reacted then with a certain amount of intimidation. I need a bit more tenderness for my tender parts.

DBD review edit (should be the last paragraph of the review):
This toy has a particular audience. Those people that have learned that they enjoy firmer toys or want to explore new sensations may want to try this. The rings are very rigid though, and not every body will be able to enjoy them for penetration.
02/08/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
First of all, as I mentioned in the other thread, Epiphora did not issue any sort of challenge. However, since you have risen to this invented challenge, all I will do is post the relevant definition of "objective" from the Oxford English Dictionary:

"8. a. Of a person or his or her judgement: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts; impartial, detached. Also (formerly) (now rare): dealing with or laying stress upon that which is external to the mind; concerned with outward things or events rather than inward thoughts or feelings."

And then I'll just point out that the first sentence of your summary reads: "This toy didn't excite me. I was distracted by details, and didn't really like it."

This should give you your answer.
02/08/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
Considering I've gotten a revision required that asked I use "I" less (and I hadn't used it a ton), no, your review is not objective.
02/08/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
I think your rewrite on the Bliss was actually more objective than your own review. LOL
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
OK. I'm looking for constructive feedback here. (The wolves comment was meant as a joke.) Keep in mind that I have had NONE of the feedback from any of the staff at Eden. The description program is growing and there is debate about if it's possible to write an objective review for a product. Let's get some examples and critique a review. As a group, and preferable working together.

Toygirl2 says the summary is not objective. Suggestions?
Epiphora - the suggestion that you do not use "I" is actually a reasonable suggestion. It does change a review to more third party. However, for sex toy reviews that might be a very strange request. (It is all about "I" or your partner.)

(I'm getting off the computer for awhile.)

Can those of you who want to offer feedback also consider offering positive suggestions or at least a "I don't know, but this is why it's not objective."
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
I probably should have titled this differently. I accepted "challenge" as a personal inspiration to try something difficult. Not a contest to do something better than someone else.

I titled it that way to connect it backwards to the other thread, but I'm sorry if the title is bothering anyone.
02/08/2009
Miss KissThis Miss KissThis
To me, opinions have no place in objectivity. Opinions themselves are subjective (for example- while you were reminded of the 70's, I wouldn't be.)

I must agree with the others and say your review was not objective.
02/08/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
"Epiphora - the suggestion that you do not use "I" is actually a reasonable suggestion. It does change a review to more third party. However, for sex toy reviews that might be a very strange request. (It is all about "I" or your partner.)"

That's right. Hence my statement that it is near impossible to write an objective sex toy review.
02/08/2009
Tuesday Tuesday
Maybe to stay objective all you can do is write a complete description of its look and properties. Once you touch on how it worked for you its no longer objective.
02/08/2009
Miss KissThis Miss KissThis
Quote:
Originally posted by Tuesday
Maybe to stay objective all you can do is write a complete description of its look and properties. Once you touch on how it worked for you its no longer objective.
I agree.

If it vibrates, maybe compare the strength of vibrations to another product. I think comparisons might help show how strong/big/heavy/etc. a toy is without making a personal statement about it.

If we're talking about COMPLETE objectivity, then star ratings shouldn't be used. I may rate something 2 stars while somebody else might give it 4. In my opinion, the whole rating process is subjective.
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
Quote:
Originally posted by Tuesday
Maybe to stay objective all you can do is write a complete description of its look and properties. Once you touch on how it worked for you its no longer objective.
That was generally what I was trying to do. I was staying away from the personal aspects of the product. Comparing it to things that were know. Providing as much factual information as possible about the toy. Couldn't compare it to another vibrating toy in the shower - I don't have one. Besides, very few people are going to have the same "pair" of toys so I'm not sure that's the right approach.

Even in the descriptive reviews, the experience section has to have some sort of a personal touch. It's true that it might not remind you of the 70's, but I need to provide some information that shows it's a container that's bright, metal, (in my opinion- tacky and "cheesy") and distracting. I wanted to back away from the toy just because of it's packaging. That's not what I wrote.

A lot of you that are reading the review are rating it very low. Why? Tell me what additional information should be there.
02/08/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
I have bolded subjective statements. My comments are in italics. I think this would be a fine review, but it is nowhere near objective enough to be considered a description.



This toy didn't excite me. I was distracted by details, and didn't really like it. I think it's a reasonable toy though, and I couldn't break it! The summary is entirely subjective, as it deals exclusively with your experience with the toy.

Pros:
It's waterproof, quiet, and mild.
Cons:
Battery compartment may not remain functional to change batteries after extended use.


At one point in time I got a surprise package. I opened it up to find a shiny tin metal case- bright red, silver and black. Prominently displayed through a plastic window was a purple vibrator. Taking it out, my first thought was jelly because it's shaky and floppy. (I asked my husband for a comparison and he said it reminds him of a limp dick!) These are your and your husband's thoughts and opinions. They are subjective. It's not completely firm because this toy has three distinct sections. It's not jelly. It's TPR- meaning it can't be sterilized, and it's phthalate free. Then I read waterproof.

OK. This toy is not for me. I don't play in the shower. I'm not fond of vibration in general, and floppy? Two months later I decided to challenge myself. Again, this is subjective since it deals with your personal preferences and not with a description of the toy.

Sarou wrote a review on this. It never even occurred to me not to use this in the shower. This is a personal thought, not an objective description. She didn't, and actually really enjoyed it. She pointed out that it has ribs which she loved. That is one aspect of this toy that I never even noticed. Subjective.

Battery installation was fairly straight forward. Twist off the end, a battery tray slides out. Two double A's and instructions as to which end went back in. This compartment is watertight. I left the vibrator on the floor of my shower, then checked it. Jumping ahead, I have some concerns about the battery compartment. I removed the batteries because I wanted to try to break the vibrator- it didn't seem durable to me. Your perception of the durability is subjective. The batteries removed easily, but I had some difficulty replacing the battery tray. When writing the review, I tried to access the battery compartment again, and it is no longer able to even be removed.

Trying to get interested in this, Your interest level is subjective. I experimented first with the vibrations. Vibrations are controlled with a single button at the end. Press once for low. Press again and you're at medium. Next is high, then off. Personally, I'm not fond of the ramp it up style of controls. Your preferences are subjective. In the shower low, and medium were barely audible. High sounded loud to me. Again, your subjective experience. Similar to what a lawn mower outside would sound like. I'm sure that nobody outside would have heard anything though. The vibrations can barely be felt through the entire shaft- they are concentrated in the tip of the toy.

Later, I tested the durability of this. After removing the batteries, I was deliberately trying to break it. Having three distinct sections- they stretch. I tried to stretch and bend it to the point where it would break. I didn't succeed, but the power wires do travel all the way down and are visible with pulling and stretching. I don't know how fragile they actually are to the abuse I was giving this! This isn't exactly subjective, I'm just not sure what the point is.
Experience
This toy has a lot of qualities that just distract me. Your attention level is subjective. The box that it comes in reminds me of disco and the 70's. Things that trigger your memory are subjective. The company name is "Evolved." Only they print the first four letters backward. So what you have is something that looks like "EVOL ved" and I kept wondering what was up with the backward love. Your confusion is subjective. It's on the box and the toy.

The shower is a place where I relax and think about the day. I hate my bathroom, so it's just not a great place for sex. Your level of dislike for your bathroom is subjective. Perhaps it would have worked better with lube, but I'm trying to get clean. Your purpose in the shower doesn't objectively relate to the toy. Even with direct stimulation against my clit on the highest setting- just holding it, the vibrations on this toy weren't very strong. Several times I accidentally pressed the controls and found that I shut it off.

I did not like this toy for internal thrusting either. I found that it was too soft when I was half standing and my natural reaction was kegels! Internally, the vibrations were barely noticeable. Your likes and dislikes are subjective.

Eventually, I just gave up. This toy may work for others (and Sarou loved it), but it's not my style.

Your style is subjective.
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
I think your rewrite on the Bliss was actually more objective than your own review. LOL
Love to know why.. That cracks me up because I mostly deleted stuff from Betty's review. She wrote a really negative review of it. I probably would never have seen it except for the forum. I have to admit that I'm somewhat intrigued by the Bliss now.
02/08/2009
Miss KissThis Miss KissThis
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
That was generally what I was trying to do. I was staying away from the personal aspects of the product. Comparing it to things that were know. Providing as much factual information as possible about the toy. Couldn't compare it to another ...
As much as you might have been trying to stay away from personal aspects, the review read as a personal one. Yes, it's true- very few people have the same toys. But people might have different ideas of what "loud" is also. I was just trying to come up with ideas that would provide factual information.

Perhaps the experience section should be left out of descriptions? Since there is no way to make a personal experience objective, maybe it should be disregarded altogether.

The fact that the bright metal container is distracting is your opinion, therefor subjective. Others might not consider it so. This is where there have been problems- what is considered objective to some might not appear so to others. This is the difficulty people are having when trying to write a completely objective review.
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainBunnyKilla
I have bolded subjective statements. My comments are in italics. I think this would be a fine review, but it is nowhere near objective enough to be considered a description.



This toy didn't excite me. I was distracted by ...
How the heck do you add formatting in the forum? I'm impressed.

OK. My style is personal and subjective. Not sure if I agree, when most of the review is objective - you need some connectivity and background. That's ok for now.

I started this post specifically with an example to discuss, and pretty much knew based on the forum that it would get chewed up.

I want to see if constructive, positive alternative wordings can be offered. Not just negativity. Do you have two or three descriptive reviews that you can demonstrate that are at least this objective that will serve as an example to look at?
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss KissThis
As much as you might have been trying to stay away from personal aspects, the review read as a personal one. Yes, it's true- very few people have the same toys. But people might have different ideas of what "loud" is also. I was just ...
Good point. There is no way to include a "experience" section in a review and have it be objective.

But if there is no way that you found the toy satisfying or that you personally believe most people would find it satisfying, then what do you do?

I actually believe that this toy is pretty mediocre, and will be for most people. I think it's completely useless in the shower. I was honestly surprised to find that Sarou enjoyed it, which was why I specifically linked to her review.
02/08/2009
Miss KissThis Miss KissThis
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
Good point. There is no way to include a "experience" section in a review and have it be objective.

But if there is no way that you found the toy satisfying or that you personally believe most people would find it satisfying, then ...
This is part of the reason I think Description Reviews should be called something else. If we aren't supposed to be subjective (and therefore say how well they worked for us personally) then should it be called a review?

If it was JUST a "Description" with no star ratings, then there would be no need to go into how well the toy worked or anything personal. That would be done by whoever actually reviews the product.
02/08/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
How the heck do you add formatting in the forum? I'm impressed.

OK. My style is personal and subjective. Not sure if I agree, when most of the review is objective - you need some connectivity and background. That's ok for ...
My point is that the statements I have bolded are not only subjective wording-wise, they are conceptually subjective. No amount of re-wording is going to change that, and I don't think these statements have any place in an objective review.

As for more objective reviews, here are some links: Glo G-Spot and Night Moves Infatuation.

There's a significant difference.
02/08/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss KissThis
This is part of the reason I think Description Reviews should be called something else. If we aren't supposed to be subjective (and therefore say how well they worked for us personally) then should it be called a review?

If it was JUST a ...
Agreed!
02/08/2009
Miss KissThis Miss KissThis
Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainBunnyKilla
My point is that the statements I have bolded are not only subjective wording-wise, they are conceptually subjective. No amount of re-wording is going to change that, and I don't think these statements have any place in an objective review. ...
Oggin's review of the Night Moves Infatuation is a great example of an objective review!
02/08/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
"But if there is no way that you found the toy satisfying or that you personally believe most people would find it satisfying, then what do you do?"

And that is the issue that Betty faced.
02/08/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
Love to know why.. That cracks me up because I mostly deleted stuff from Betty's review. She wrote a really negative review of it. I probably would never have seen it except for the forum. I have to admit that I'm somewhat intrigued by ...
Hmmm...

In the rewrite you did, the focus is on the toy and it's properties and how it works. In your review, the focus is more on how you felt about the toy and it's packaging.

I don't think the experience part can really be all that objective. It's just not possible. I don't think it really needs to be, though. Even for a descriptive review, I'd think that so long as the summary and main review body are focused on the toy, some subjective experience and feeling is okay in it's appropriate place.

What bothers me most about some of the descriptions is the summary. I think - personally only - that they should be about the toy, not the experience.

Like...

Instead of saying "This toy didn't excite me. I was distracted by details, and didn't really like it. I think it's a reasonable toy though, and I couldn't break it!" - which tells they buyer nothing about the actual toy - there should be more toy oriented details. Something like "A waterproof, multi speed vibe with pinpoint vibrations concentrated in the tip, this vibe is great for those who like a less firm, more giving vibe."

Cuz... when someone is looking to buy something, they want to know what it IS when they look at the description/summary. Not how much you liked it.

Make sense?

I'm eatings soup and typing and I"m very distracted!
02/08/2009
Miss KissThis Miss KissThis
A few more objective reviews:

Spiral of Bliss Review
Ophoria Bliss #12 Review
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
Quote:
Originally posted by Epiphora
"But if there is no way that you found the toy satisfying or that you personally believe most people would find it satisfying, then what do you do?"

And that is the issue that Betty faced.
I'll look at the links in few minutes.

I too would like to see the description reviews distinctly labeled, and perhaps have the personal experience section removed. Or at least labeled. That may be the only section of a description review that should not be objective.

Agreed. That is the issue that Betty faced. Yet, I took "her" review, deleted most of her emotional statements and Carrie Ann says that it's more objective than the one that I wrote from scratch. Should we look at that one in more depth as well?

Therefore, regardless of how objective the review on the Symphony is- it is possible to write a more objective review. They may be dry and boring as the desert. Perhaps the goals of the description program still need clarification.

Toygirl2 posted my review here with several statements that are "subjective." Let's take one.

"Taking it out, my first thought was jelly because it's shaky and floppy. (I asked my husband for a comparison and he said it reminds him of a limp dick!) These are your and your husband's thoughts and opinions. They are subjective."

That is descriptive. When reading the review for the first time, did you have a good idea of if the product was firm or tends to flop somewhat. Especially when held in my hand and shook. I was looking for a comparison because this toy is unlike anything I've ever seen.

What would be a better way to describe it?
02/08/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
I'll look at the links in few minutes.

I too would like to see the description reviews distinctly labeled, and perhaps have the personal experience section removed. Or at least labeled. That may be the only section of a description ...
A better way to say that would be something along the lines of: "This toy isn't firm." You see how that's a description and not an explanation of your own personal (and your husband's) reaction to the toy?
02/08/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
I'll look at the links in few minutes.

I too would like to see the description reviews distinctly labeled, and perhaps have the personal experience section removed. Or at least labeled. That may be the only section of a description ...
"What would be a better way to describe it?"

This is not a firm toy. It's quite floppy with a lot of give and very little rigidity.
02/08/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
"What would be a better way to describe it?"

This is not a firm toy. It's quite floppy with a lot of give and very little rigidity.
Exactly.
02/08/2009
Dragon Dragon
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
Hmmm...

In the rewrite you did, the focus is on the toy and it's properties and how it works. In your review, the focus is more on how you felt about the toy and it's packaging.

I don't think the experience part can really ...
Excellent point about the summary. It should not include personal details. I blew that one, especially because I was trying to write similar to a descriptions review.

I'll change the title later in the week.

Thanks for a good suggestion.
02/08/2009
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