Studen cancelled class to become an advanced reviewer

Ryuson Ryuson
Hello! I just am a bit bothered right now and don't know how to approach the situation.

I took on a student a few weeks ago that needed quite a bit of work. This made sense since they were not an advanced reviewer and didn't have much experience under their belt.

I must have put at least 4 hours of work in between talking to them, thinking of suggestions for their reviews, editing for typos, etc. Today however I log on only to see that they quit my class and applied to become an advanced reviewer. Of course because there hasn't been a SINGLE case I've seen that someone didn't get voted up, she made it.

I'm not the easiest mentor, I won't just graduate you if you're still writing bad reviews, but I like to think of myself as a kind, reasonable person. Not only do I feel upset because I got cheated out my $25 GC, but also because she didn't mention it to me AT ALL before she dropped the class.

I also feel like if a user can't write a good review without me having to get on them several different times about including a lot of very important information, they aren't really ready to get sponsored assignments. Eden loses money to send reviewers products in return for reviews that will help them get sales.

I don't want to have any hard feelings for anyone in the community, and I really want to talk to this user about the problem. Do you guys have any advise about how I should approach this? Thank you so much!
04/29/2012
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Sangsara Sangsara
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryuson
Hello! I just am a bit bothered right now and don't know how to approach the situation.

I took on a student a few weeks ago that needed quite a bit of work. This made sense since they were not an advanced reviewer and didn't have much ... More
I think this sux for one major reason: why the hell didn't she just tell you that she felt she should be graduated? I for one really appreciate your advice- like I've told you , you are the first person of your generation that I take advice from seriously! Don't take it too personally. people have issues!
04/29/2012
Zombirella Zombirella
Due to the policies and stuff around here, until you hear from an EF employee I would hold off messaging the girl at all about it that way you don't get yourself into trouble or something for "harassing" them even though that isn't your intention. Just looking out for you.

I haven't had that happen to me but I haven't been here as long as you or had as many students. I will mentor anyone but I did feel a little upset twice already when someone requested me as a mentor and I accepted it and then I go to the community page to see they also put in an upgrade request and of course got it. I never said anything to anyone about it other than mope to my fiance about being bummed.

I really think EF needs to do something about that. If you apply to have a mentor and it is your FIRST time (I don't mind mentoring someone that is already advanced when they choose me) then you shouldn't be able to get voted to advanced status, you should have to finish your class. You also shouldn't be able to cancel a class and then go to be voted in. I just don't think either of those situations is fair to us mentors.

I'm also getting bummed out that I have within this month and last month had THREE people request me only to not respond to my messages or get back with me at all for weeks, one a month and I end up cancelling them so other prospective students don't see how many classes I have going on and think they should choose someone else since I look "busy".

I don't know, sorry to mope on your post but I do understand how you feel. It isn't fair. But until someone from EF responds to you I would just hold off saying something to the person to protect yourself .
04/29/2012
voenne voenne
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombirella
Due to the policies and stuff around here, until you hear from an EF employee I would hold off messaging the girl at all about it that way you don't get yourself into trouble or something for "harassing" them even though that isn't ... More
I agree that those enrolled in classes should not be able to request status upgrade, it would be nice if the system was set up so that if they are currently enrolled, they would need a mentor's approval. It would also be nice if you had to get approval for cancelling a class, as well. Especially if you are still a basic reviewer. If there's a reason why you would want to, I don't see any reason why you couldn't just talk to your mentor and tell them what you are not getting out of the program. That would be the mature thing to do, and both parties could come to an agreement.

Though I have to admit, I did submit a request during the time I was Ryu's student (sorry again for that!) but it was because I was totally confused about how that worked. I searched high and low for answers, but the information was so scattered and I was not told that I would become an advanced reviewer after graduation. I also had no clue about the $25 gift card, so I felt bad about that as well. All I could find was that being an advanced reviewer would allow me to be able to apply for buyout assignments, which I still wanted Ryu's help with, and filing for an upgrade was the way to get that.

That said, I know some of the others out there were probably misinformed as I was/unable to find answers.

I'm sorry that this happened to you, Ryu. You are a truly awesome mentor and I'm upset that you could not be rewarded for all of your hard work, and instead was cheated. Dealing with people is hard - this is like any other job that revolves around doing so. You just have to grin and bear it, because you did the best you could and difficult people will never go away. They are usually only difficult because they are having problems within themselves, not because your quality of service is the fault (in most cases, at least, and definitely in yours).
04/29/2012
Badass Badass
Quote:
Originally posted by voenne
I agree that those enrolled in classes should not be able to request status upgrade, it would be nice if the system was set up so that if they are currently enrolled, they would need a mentor's approval. It would also be nice if you had to get ... More
I agree with this very much, mostly about Ryuson being an amazing mentor! But also that perhaps when a student is in a class, they should not be able to submit a request. But then again, it would be the same thing since she dropped out of class to submit the request.

Personally, I think you should have to take one class to become a mentor. I think you should go to JR or another Eden hierarchy and see what they think. I remember when I was first on here, I didn't really know how this went, so I submitted a request before I even truly understood the Mentor Program.

I'm sorry you put in all that effort and got jipped Ryuson.
04/29/2012
Ryuson Ryuson
I just wrote a super long response to all you guys but my internet freaked out and it got lost in cyberspace. Thank you all for being so supportive about this, just knowing that people care makes me feel a lot more levelheaded about the whole situation.

@Zombie: That's a really good point about not sending them any upset messages until I talk to someone on the Eden staff, it never occurred to me that I could get in trouble about it!

I also have a few AWOL students that I feel reluctant to cancel, but when you haven't heard back from them for months it's sort of hard not to. I have a few people that are in the process of moving/had a death in the family so they're not on, but at least they bothered to tell me. Best of luck!

@Badass: I'll shoot JR a message tomorrow and just see what he has to say. If it's something like my BFFl up there Voenne did where they accidentally applied in my class I wouldn't care, but since the person obviously knew what they were doing it just makes me really sad that they couldn't even talk to me about it. I don't know what JR can do, but I'll feel better when someone knows!

Thank you so much for your kind words everyone. It really makes me feel a lot calmer about the situation and as you ladies know it's never a good thing to confront someone about a problem when you're flustered and angry.
04/29/2012
aliceinthehole aliceinthehole
ryuson -
i'm sorry this happened to you, but i'm glad you're putting this out here, and hope that by speaking with staff about it that some new changes can be put in place so that it doesn't happen again. the mentor program is great but definitely gets abused. it's the reason i stopped mentoring for several months. it gets tiring being used by many to help the few.
i have faith in EF staff, however, and look for the upcoming changes i expect will occur as a result of us bringing this issue to light.
04/29/2012
Kissy Kissy
My mentor asked me to not apply while I was in class. This made perfect sense to me, and I understood why. I can't imagine someone doing it without realizing why you wouldn't do it!!
04/29/2012
Petite Valentine Petite Valentine
"I really think EF needs to do something about that. If you apply to have a mentor and it is your FIRST time (I don't mind mentoring someone that is already advanced when they choose me) then you shouldn't be able to get voted to advanced status, you should have to finish your class. You also shouldn't be able to cancel a class and then go to be voted in. I just don't think either of those situations is fair to us mentors. "

You should add this to the community planning thread.
04/29/2012
lilly555 lilly555
I'm sorry this happend to you! I really wish the upgrade requests could be done with and going through a mentor is mandatory. There are so many reviews on items I'm really interested in that are done by people who seem to have never had a mentor. They're just not the same and it makes me feel uninformed.
Second in your case you already put this effort into helping someone only to find out they were just looking for the easiest way to become advance. Either they would graduate or be voted up. No offense to anyone but that doesn't seem to be about the quality of the reviews being put out. Sometimes people forget this is a business and quality matters to the customers to make informed decisions.
It really sucks that someone used your trust like that and took advantage of your time and effort and for that I'm sorry. If I were you I'd be upset as well .
04/29/2012
Kindred Kindred
Ryuson-

Let me join everyone else in expressing how sorry I am that this happened to you. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, there is a lot of confusion and lack of information regarding the mentor program. The one suggestion I have would be to send a message to every new student outlining your expectations and an overview of the program. I also always mention that they automatically become advanced upon graduation and ask them to note go up for vote.

I was originally going to write a "Mentor Program FAQ" much like the editor program FAQ, but I honestly don't have the time right now. If anyone else is up for the task, I'm sure everyone would be very appreciative. ~hint hint~

In terms of the mentor program, I completely agree that it needs some tweaks.

1. A student enrolled in a class should not have the option to go up for vote. The system should automatically prevent this. This is a no brainer and occurs more frequently than it should simply because students do not know any better.

2. Students should still be able to drop a class at any time. However, it should result in an automatic failure. The presumption is that if a mentor has not graduated you and you drop, you would have failed without additional reviews.

3. A mentor should be able to fail a student at any time. Currently, the system only allows us to fail a student after 2 reviews have been submitted. How many students do we all have that either submit one or no reviews and disappear forever? Our only option is to cancel the class which basically erases all evidence that we ever worked with the student. Personally, I don't care if we get a GC or points for failing these AWOL students, but I feel strongly that mentors should get the credit for having worked with them.

4. I think the ability to get voted in should continue. However, I think that any reviews completed under a mentor should not be used as part of their body of work. Currently, when a reviewer requests an upgrade vote, the system lists their reviews. Reviews that were completed with the assistance of a mentor do not demonstrate that reviewers ability to write a quality review on their own. The system should automatically ignore these reviews.

(I'm going to add my suggestions to the Community Planning thread)
04/30/2012
unfulfilled unfulfilled
Sorry this happened to you. It is frustrating when you work hard with a student and don't even get credit for all the hard work you put in.

I like Kindreds suggestions that the reviews I helped them with shouldn't be included in their ability to get advanced. I've had students apply for advanced when they were in my class too.
04/30/2012
Ryuson Ryuson
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
Ryuson-

Let me join everyone else in expressing how sorry I am that this happened to you. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, there is a lot of confusion and lack of information regarding the mentor program. The one suggestion I have ... More
I totally agree that reviews written in a class shouldn't count, and that you should be able to fail students at any time.

I did send a message to them at the beginning of the class asking them not to apply to become advanced, which may have been why they decided to just ditch the class and apply. I suppose I never talked about that in my note...

I really hope that the admins listen to your suggestions! You thought of things that didn't even occur to me.
04/30/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
Ryuson-

Let me join everyone else in expressing how sorry I am that this happened to you. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, there is a lot of confusion and lack of information regarding the mentor program. The one suggestion I have ... More
I'm not a mentor (for reasons that have everything to do with time to everything mentioned in this thread) but I agree with everything Kindred said and numbered.

We have been kindly asking that the system NOT allow people who are enrolled in the Mentor Program be allowed to go up for an independent vote for ages and nothing has happened. Also, it seems like the same 2 or 3 people vote for ALL the people who ask for an upgrade. Do these voters NOT know read most of these reviews? I've seen maybe 2 or 3 people who have gone up for a vote in the 2 years I've been here, who I think should have been upgraded without a Mentor Program graduation. BUT, a few members of our community, for reasons unknown (because they never answer) vote EVERYONE and anyone in, even when the reviews shown are unreadable.

In addition to Kindred's list I suggest

Why not only allow each member to only vote on 2 upgrades a month? No more. That might help this problem.... and NO points for voting to upgrade people.

It's as frustrating as hell.
04/30/2012
Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
I'm not a mentor (for reasons that have everything to do with time to everything mentioned in this thread) but I agree with everything Kindred said and numbered.

We have been kindly asking that the system NOT allow people who are enrolled ... More
Just to clarify, there are no points associated with voting on an upgrade. The contributors doing the voting are doing so for reasons other than points.
04/30/2012
Zombirella Zombirella
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryuson
I totally agree that reviews written in a class shouldn't count, and that you should be able to fail students at any time.

I did send a message to them at the beginning of the class asking them not to apply to become advanced, which may ... More
See, that is why I don't want to mention it to a student. I don't want them to apply for voting when they are taking a class from me but I'm too worried that IF I mention that option that they will go do it.
04/30/2012
js250 js250
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
Ryuson-

Let me join everyone else in expressing how sorry I am that this happened to you. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, there is a lot of confusion and lack of information regarding the mentor program. The one suggestion I have ... More
THANK YOU--for the excellent ideas!!
04/30/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
Just to clarify, there are no points associated with voting on an upgrade. The contributors doing the voting are doing so for reasons other than points.
Oh. I didn't know that. Probably I didn't know this because I rarely, if ever vote someone an upgrade. Maybe then make it only possible to vote 2 upgrades or so a month, after that, the button doesn't work. That will prevent the few who abuse the system from continuing to do so.

What reasons would a few have for voting for every single person who asks for an upgrade? I mean, you might not know. I certainly have NO idea.
04/30/2012
Liz2 Liz2
I am not a mentor for many reasons but I would be thoroughly pissed if someone did this to me! I think the system needs work; I heard before that some people just don't want criticism and just maneuver around some other way.

This gripe is is justified; hopefully it will be addressed. Appreciate Ryuson bringing it up!
04/30/2012
js250 js250
I understand exactly what you are going through, Ruy--I had a student that had 3 reviews submitted, still needed some work and ASKED me not to graduate him/her. So I did not. A couple of days later, I was reading reviews on the Community Page and there the person was!!! They had gotten voted in to an advanced reviewer status....WTF!!!!

I did tell them not to do that upon accepting them as a student, I had worked with them for 3 assignments among many messages about reviewing, site navigation, product questions, etc. I probably had over 9 hours invested in the student. I was so screwed out of my GC--looked forward to that after spending all that time--and was pissed beyond belief!! The student told me they were not ready to graduate...

I agree with many of you, if someone is a student, the right to be voted up should be blocked.

I also have had 5 people apply as students and then have not heard anything from them after i have messaged them explaining the classes, my short policies and/or ordered their first assignment. I had to cancel these classes due to lack of response to messages, for months!! I do feel that there should be a fail option as well, at least there would be some compensation for wasting our time with the point farmers or dead beats. I understand that after getting more familiar with the process, some people do not want to review...fine, let me know and I will cancel the class. Do not just fall of the face of the Earth and be so danged rude!!

Holy cow!! Looks like I wrote a book, sorry guys, I guess I am still upset about the whole issue.
04/30/2012
Zombirella Zombirella
Quote:
Originally posted by js250
I understand exactly what you are going through, Ruy--I had a student that had 3 reviews submitted, still needed some work and ASKED me not to graduate him/her. So I did not. A couple of days later, I was reading reviews on the Community Page and ... More
I had someone that I messaged back and forth quite a bit, I even requested a toy for them to review and they got it. A month later, nothing, they stopped replying to my emails (alongside of making excuses for why they haven't reviewed yet or sent me a review). I got my hopes up and was so excited to help someone as well as the GC because I had something I wanted to use it toward. I take my time to write out detailed messages to people then they just drop off the face of Earth. I was really recently upset by the person I requested a toy for. It pissed me off that I had EF send them something worth like $20 for free and they can't even have the decency to atleast write ONE review for it and then drop off the radar. I feel like it makes me look bad for excitedly asking for a product for someone that doesn't follow through. I thought maybe they wanted to get in the easier way by votes and have kept an eye out, nothing, no activity on their profile either. It just really sucks.
04/30/2012
Beck Beck
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
Oh. I didn't know that. Probably I didn't know this because I rarely, if ever vote someone an upgrade. Maybe then make it only possible to vote 2 upgrades or so a month, after that, the button doesn't work. That will prevent the few who ... More
I don't get it either. I rarely vote for anyone's upgrade unless I read their reviews and they don't need a mentor because they write EU reviews right away. I think they need to change the requirement for requesting your upgrade. 2 reviews is not enough. I like that there is a way around the mentor program, because not everyone wants to join the program and not everyone needs it. That is fine. However, the bar is set far to low.

They don't have to be 2 decent reviews just 2 reviews. You can write 2 300 word reviews within a few hours. The minimal amount of reviews for an upgrade should change to something more than 2.

I'm sorry this has happened to you Ryuson! I haven't had this happen but I have had issues with mentoring. I agree with others. The option to fail someone at any time should be available. I also agree, if someone is a student they shouldn't be able to request the upgrade. It should be blocked. I try to express to my students who don't have an upgrade that I can request items for them. They do get their upgrade, but after graduation. If they don't have the upgrade and write at least one review in my class I will request the item for them, but if they have the upgrade they can request their own items. I tell them that this stops me from having proper payment and in the end you make out better if you allow me to request the items for you. They seem to understand this. It's just a matter of getting them to review that item. I've had two that never did.
04/30/2012
voenne voenne
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
Ryuson-

Let me join everyone else in expressing how sorry I am that this happened to you. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, there is a lot of confusion and lack of information regarding the mentor program. The one suggestion I have ... More
These are really great suggestions and I support them wholeheartedly. I hope that these can be implemented.

For Edens sake, they really need to be more strict, because people are greatly abusing the system. They are losing money, etc, when people are falling off of the face of the earth and not writing reviews for free products. We work to earn our points and free products, and it's not fair when other users are getting upgraded after putting very little effort, or are cheating mentors out of their payment. It is time consuming, just like a job, and not a game.
04/30/2012
lilly555 lilly555
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
I'm not a mentor (for reasons that have everything to do with time to everything mentioned in this thread) but I agree with everything Kindred said and numbered.

We have been kindly asking that the system NOT allow people who are enrolled ... More
Perhaps another way to limit the undeserved upgrades is to increase the number of votes needed to move up. Another suggestion, and I hate to say this because it excludes some folks, is that those who vote should be of a certain rank or mentors themselves since they would have a better idea of who is ready to be upgraded without a graduation from class.
04/30/2012
kendra30752 kendra30752
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryuson
Hello! I just am a bit bothered right now and don't know how to approach the situation.

I took on a student a few weeks ago that needed quite a bit of work. This made sense since they were not an advanced reviewer and didn't have much ... More
Aw! Ryuson, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I can tell that you are a kick ass mentor! I always read your reviews and you put A LOT into it. I am 100% sure that you put that same very hard work into your students as you do your own reviews.

I hate that that happened. When I signed up to have a mentor, she asked that I not upgrade. I didn't even know what that meant at the time, but I was careful not to click anything that said upgrade. Lol. She was up front and honest and I have a feeling that worked with her other students as well.

The problem is this: people carelessly upgrade. Due to mentors being "duped" by students, I completely quit voting to upgrade anybody. I simply won't do it no matter what now. I don't want to be part of the reason some hard working mentor gets screwed out of their points. I don't know who does the voting and why they don't bother to vote with morals, but it's wrong to just upgrade everybody. Many of them do need A LOT of work, like you said and they shouldn't be upgraded anyway. Either the upgrading needs to be changed or they need to start upping the number of votes you need to become advanced. Maybe make it 20 votes and it'll cut down some.

My advice is to do what my mentor did. When they request you, be upfront and say "I'd be happy to mentor you. I only ask that you don't request to be upgraded while in my class." I don't understand why the person wants an upgrade and wants to cancel the class when they know they are not even ready? Well, I suppose it's to get to the "top" quicker. Nobody wants to be patient or even care if they're ready or not, they just want to become advanced in hopes to soon become a mentor, editor, etc.

Last month I had someone ask to be my student. I said yes and guess what? They did not want to write reviews! They asked me right away "how do I be an editor? Will you tell the others that I'm good and should be an editor? I don't want to write reviews unless I have to to be an editor. Will you help me be one?" I was honestly angry. I felt used and it felt unfair. Some of us have worked HARD (rather than only worrying about getting advanced) to make it to the mentor/editor program and then people come along and want to be advanced, become a mentor or editor without putting effort in at all. It blows my mind. I'm like, you can't even write a review and you wanna be an editor?!

In my opinion, you put the work in, Ryuson and you deserve your points. I wish you were able to get your payment for your work. I think changes are in order because this happens all the time.

It was really nasty and wrong of her to not even tell you that she was going to go be voted in. At the very least, she could have been honest with you. It's not fair for mentors to be used like that. I wish I had advice for you on how to approach it, but the only thing I know to do is from now on, tell them up front. I wonder if you could send a message and explain the entire thing to an admin, just bring up your concerns. I mean, it's happening to the mentors daily at this point so it's understandable to complain. Maybe send a message and show them all the work you've put in. Surely something could be done about this.
04/30/2012
kendra30752 kendra30752
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombirella
Due to the policies and stuff around here, until you hear from an EF employee I would hold off messaging the girl at all about it that way you don't get yourself into trouble or something for "harassing" them even though that isn't ... More
So sorry to comment again, but I had the same problem! I've had several students who will not get back to me at all! I don't know what to do. I message them, nothing. Some are active on the site, and one recieved her free assignment and will not get back to me or even start a review! That needs to be addressed too. I thought I was the only that had this situation. I wondered how long would be fair before cancelling the class with the students. I've had them for a few months! I just wanted to wait in case something big had come up like an emergency, but I agree, it's a pain!
04/30/2012
BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
I want to add, a reviewer has the choice of submitting the review to either their mentor if they're in class, or put it up for editing and circumvent their mentor, if they so choose.

Stuff like this is exactly why I do not mentor anymore.

Ruy, I used to send ALL my students a letter stating my expectations, and what they can expect from me in turn, BEFORE I accepted them into my class.

When I did that, I really weeded out the people who were not willing to work for their Advanced User status.

I disagree with making it mandatory for them to go through the mentor program, and a LOT of people don't even know that there is a mentor program.
04/30/2012
Ansley Ansley
It is terribly unfortunate that this happened to you Ryuson. It happened to me once and I was able to catch it before they were voted in and I was able to fail them and still earn my gift card. But I realize that isn't always going to be the case.

The mentor program does need changes. We are following this thread and listening to all of your ideas. Changing programs requires programming to be updated, this takes time.

For the here and now, let's address the immediate concerns:

- If you have a student who has accepted an assignment and you know of no outstanding issues with shipping, damage, wrong size, etc. then send in a support ticket so that the issue can be handled by an administrator. Regardless of whether or not you are able to contact the reviewer, they will get emails reminding them. If they attempt to order something else for assignment, the request will be denied.

- If you don't hear from a student for a period of time and know of no other issues with their personal life that would prevent them from completing your class in a timely manner, you are free to cancel the class. How long a period of time you wait is purely up to your discretion. If they come back to the site or send you a message asking why their class was canceled, you may be honest in saying that you hadn't heard from them in some time. And if you're willing, that they are more than welcome to rejoin your class.

Ryuson, I will be sending you a message shortly.
04/30/2012
spineyogurt spineyogurt
Aw that sucks sorry
04/30/2012
Ryuson Ryuson
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
It is terribly unfortunate that this happened to you Ryuson. It happened to me once and I was able to catch it before they were voted in and I was able to fail them and still earn my gift card. But I realize that isn't always going to be the ... More
Thanks so much for listening Stormy! This started out as a how to handle the situation thread and it's so nice that it's ended up being a place where people are discussing their problems and solutions to these issues.
04/30/2012
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