I was very interested in the Leaf line of products until I saw that they are made in China.

Oxygen99 Oxygen99
This might be a little bit of a rant, so bare with me.

First off; I try as hard as I can to only use vibes and dils that are made in the US. I think outsourcing sucks and I try to do my part to support American businesses. Companies outsource manufacturing because it's much cheaper to produce a finished product. The reason it's cheap is because they pay the factory workers next to nothing and/or use inferior materials. I'm sorry, but I don't want to be putting inferior materials inside me. I do also buy toys, on occasion, from Europe, Canada, Japan, and other westernized counties due to similar stringent labor regulations.

The other thing that really gets me about these Leaf toys being made in China is this whole "eco-friendly" angle they're trying to go for. I can promise you that if it's made in China there is nothing eco-friendly about it. China has practically non-existent environmental regulations. I mean, they literally dump industrial waste into rivers. Also, unless you're vibrator is somehow solar powered, it's not eco-friendly. The stuff in those rechargeable lithium-ion and lithium-polymer batteries is volatile nasty stuff. Which is why you can't just throw those things out in the garbage. They need to be taken someplace that can properly dispose of the spent batteries. So, maybe the box is 90% post-consumer product. So what?! Cereal boxes and shampoo bottles are all made from recycled material these days. Making your product green and putting it in a brown box with a leaf on it does not an eco-friendly product make.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people that refuses to buy anything not made in the USA. I do when I can. Yes, I know practically everything these day is made in China, but I'm also not putting my microwave or TV inside my vagina. I'm also not naive enough to think that there aren't sweat shops right here in the good ol' U. S. of A. But I'd like to think that most (more than China, at least) legitimate companies in this country do use proper labor practices.

I know most people probably don't even bother to look to see where products are made these days, but maybe it's something everybody should become be more conscious of.

Would love to hear everybody's opinions.
12/29/2011
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Cherrylane Cherrylane
Quote:
Originally posted by Oxygen99
This might be a little bit of a rant, so bare with me.

First off; I try as hard as I can to only use vibes and dils that are made in the US. I think outsourcing sucks and I try to do my part to support American businesses. Companies ... More
Totally agree. I had the same reaction to the "green" line.
12/29/2011
Elnoa Elnoa
Thanks for the heads up! I should really do more research about this and thanks for reminding me.
12/29/2011
bayosgirl bayosgirl
For $100-$150+ a toy, you'd think they'd be made in the U.S.. or Europe, or Canada. Sheesh! If/when I invest in a luxury toy, I won't be going with the Leaf line.
12/29/2011
Ms. Spice Ms. Spice
There's this thing called "globalization." Apparently, almost all materials are made in cheaper, foreign countries and THEN sent to developed countries, like the US, so that these materials can be manufactured and slapped with a label that reads "Made in the US." It's been happening for the last few years, actually. America is the biggest offender, followed by Germany.

Seriously, the only thing that's not made in China is wheat. Chances are your "Made in America" toys and other items spent some time in a third world or developing country for a little bit of time. And sometimes that's not even made in the States, it's instead made in Russia. The whole "Made in America" campaign was started by politicians who have no idea how the world works and want to get elected.

So yeah, don't get too upset when your stuff is made in China or anywhere not "developed."
12/29/2011
Oxygen99 Oxygen99
Quote:
Originally posted by bayosgirl
For $100-$150+ a toy, you'd think they'd be made in the U.S.. or Europe, or Canada. Sheesh! If/when I invest in a luxury toy, I won't be going with the Leaf line.
Yeah, the price was something else I forgot to mention. For that price they should be individually hand-crafted by some kind of sex-toy monk living on an isolated beach in Hawaii
12/29/2011
Oxygen99 Oxygen99
Quote:
Originally posted by Ms. Spice
There's this thing called "globalization." Apparently, almost all materials are made in cheaper, foreign countries and THEN sent to developed countries, like the US, so that these materials can be manufactured and slapped with a label ... More
Of course. But I'd still rather the imported raw materials be made in America if I have a choice. The jeans I wore today are American made, but the cotton was likely from China. Better that than having cotton from China and having the finished product be made in Pakistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, or any number of places where the workers get paid about $2 a month.
12/29/2011
Kitt Katt Kitt Katt
I wish Eden could provide the country of origin for each of the products sold on the website.
12/29/2011
Chirple Chirple
Honestly, even the "Made in USA" or "Made in Italy" ones are often only assembled there, usually from materials from other places.

Leaf says "high-grade silicone", which doesn't say medical or implant-grade - but if it's not going to actually go inside an open wound, it doesn't really matter. You're not implanting it.

Personally, I would want to do research into the company and their factory before drawing conclusions. Just because the country doesn't have legal regulations doesn't mean the company can't have a factory that isn't terrible.

Who else is made in China ? :

- We-Vibe
- LELO
- Je Joue
- Jimmyjane

(and more, of course)

Yeah, "PRC" is just the discreet way of saying "China".

The only ones I own that weren't made in China are like... Fairy (Japan) and Fun Factory (Germany).

I give Leaf points for being honest and clearly disclosing. Lots of points for not hiding behind a tiny "Assembled in PRC" designation. "China" shouldn't be a dirty word.

I think Leaf is overpriced, but I don't think that because of where it was made.
12/29/2011
potstickers potstickers
I've noticed that a lot of stuff made in China can be labeled whatever they want. Even if it says "high-grade silicone," it could still be made with whatever else that's lying around the factory.

I once had a lapse in judgement and bought something labeled "BPA Free" from China, only to find it was made out of PVC, which contains BPA.
12/29/2011
Antipova Antipova
Factory locations is a looooooooooooooong debate.

But I will say---calling a product "eco-friendly" because it's green and comes in a (pretty much standard) recycled cardboard box and a canvas bag instead of a polyester one... um... there's a lithium battery in there, guys. It's not eco-friendly by any stretch of the imagination.
12/29/2011
Eva Schwaltz Eva Schwaltz
I do think they are over priced. I am aware of where things are made and it's almost always China so it's just something I've come to expect.
12/29/2011
Shellz31 Shellz31
It is disappointing that so many things are made in China - they are flooding the market. My toys have been fine so far, but most things made there are shit, especially their metal! Ya buy stainless steel knives and as soon as ya wash them, they rust. Stainless Steel my ass! Pisses me off.
It also pisses me off that our countries allow so much of their crap to enter our countries.

I have no desire to purchase any of the Leaf products. I simply don't think they are worth the price they are trying to charge for them!
12/29/2011
Nothere Nothere
I personally don't get the big deal about where something is made, in terms of quality. I've had really really crappy items of all sorts made in the USA and some of my favorite sex toys and other items made in China. Is an American factory really better than a Chinese factory? I guess I'm playing Devil's Advocate a bit. I'll be the first to admit that I've had some horribly made items that were Made in China. But without researching information about every specific retailer and their Chinese factories, I refuse to make a broad generalization. I personally don't think less of a toy knowing that it was Made in China.
12/29/2011
Misfit Momma Misfit Momma
I could care less where it's made, as long as it works!
12/29/2011
Illusional Illusional
Quote:
Originally posted by Misfit Momma
I could care less where it's made, as long as it works!
Ditto!
12/30/2011
Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Quote:
Originally posted by Antipova
Factory locations is a looooooooooooooong debate.

But I will say---calling a product "eco-friendly" because it's green and comes in a (pretty much standard) recycled cardboard box and a canvas bag instead of a polyester one... ... More
But isn't a rechargeable battery more eco-friendly than your standard AAs? And silicone more green than jelly?
12/30/2011
Ms. Spice Ms. Spice
Quote:
Originally posted by Adriana Ravenlust
But isn't a rechargeable battery more eco-friendly than your standard AAs? And silicone more green than jelly?
I'm unsure of lithium batteries, but I remember reading an article in Sexis a few months ago that discussed the eco friendly nature of silicone. Yes, it is body friendly, but the disposal process is a hassle. From my understanding, the process for it to break down takes a long time and because of that, shouldn't be disposed by your regular disposal service.

Uh, if Elnoa or Antipova could step in and explain both more in depth, that would be awesome. Scientific stuff is far from my forte.
12/30/2011
Elnoa Elnoa
Quote:
Originally posted by Ms. Spice
I'm unsure of lithium batteries, but I remember reading an article in Sexis a few months ago that discussed the eco friendly nature of silicone. Yes, it is body friendly, but the disposal process is a hassle. From my understanding, the process ... More
lol. I will take up your challenge.

Silicone (or, more specifically, consumer grade silicone) is considered "environmentally friendly" for a few reasons:
1) The main ingredient used in its production is silica (sand), which is readily available and easily collected with minimum environmental impact.
2) Silicone lasts a really long time (has low chemical/radiational reactivity and high thermal stability) and therefor can be re-used "forever". However, this property is only "environmentally friendly" if you continue to re-use the product, and don't throw it away. These same properties make it difficult to dispose of (although it is recyclable).
3) For many consumer uses (including sex toys), acetic acid (vinegar) rather than HCl gas (hazardous) is produced. The acetic acid can then be used in other production processes, etc.
4) Silicone is "non-toxic" in that it does not break down and it tends not to have the same harmful oxidation products breakdown or additives that other "plastics" tend to have. However, the long term effects of exposure are as yet largely unknown.

PVC (or "jelly") is not considered "environmentally friendly" for the following reasons:
1) PVC (polyvinyl chloride) is made up of vinyl chloride monomers, which are produced using petroleum products and chlorine. I'll assume you know that those two things are generally bad for both you and the environment.
2) PVC does not decompose (like silicone), however, additives within the PVC can oxidize readily. As PVC is porous (unlike silicone [I actually talked about this in a different post]), oxygen can more easily contact additives within the PVC material. It can, however, be recycled.
3) Plasticized PVC can be harmful to people (and other creatures) due to the plasticizers used.
4) PVC (plasticized or non) can also be harmful as it depolymerizes. The vinyl chloride monomers can be breathed in and cause many health issues.

Rechargable batteries are considered green because, well, you use less batteries... However, keep in mind that it requires energy input to charge these batteries, and that energy comes form a power plant. Most people outside Denmark don't have "eco friendly" power plants, but rather, coal, natural gas, or nuclear. Most of these batteries are lithium ion or nickel hydride/nickel-cadmium , all of which are highly toxic. Therefor, the batteries must be recycled, which is both energetically and monetarily costly. AA batteries are carbon-zinc based, and are less toxic if not properly disposed of. Neither battery is environmentally friendly to manufacture.

Let me know if you have other questions.
12/30/2011
Ryuson Ryuson
I try and buy toys made in a westernized country (or at least assembled) but it isn't a huge turn off for me. The two big-ticket toys that I own are both German (Fun Factory and Close 2 You) but most of their parts are probably made in China. It's hard for any companies to compete with outsourced companies and make everything in a developed country anymore, which is just heartbreaking.

I do buy local food, but local dildos are harder to find.
12/30/2011
Kitt Katt Kitt Katt
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryuson
I try and buy toys made in a westernized country (or at least assembled) but it isn't a huge turn off for me. The two big-ticket toys that I own are both German (Fun Factory and Close 2 You) but most of their parts are probably made in China. ... More
"local dildos are harder to find"

There are many high quality sex toys manufactured here.
Tantus and Vixen Creations, both manufacture their dildos in the U.S.
Happy Valley toys are manufactured in Canada.

12/30/2011
Chirple Chirple
It would be great to have the info on the product pages, or company pages - but I appreciate how much work that would be with so many products.

Artisan-created products are more likely to be made in a "developed" country. For instance, work produced by master glass-blowers or hand-carved or hand-moulded products.

I'd be curious to know if any actual vibes are made outside PRC.
12/30/2011
kendra30752 kendra30752
Wow! That was very interesting info Oxygen. Glad I came across this. I actually didn't even know they were made in China and had been planning to buy a couple someday. Lol. I hate that! It does suck that they can call thing natural or eco-friendly or even organic when it's NOT! It's decieving, lying and really just nasty to use customers that way. A company that's straight up and honest will earn respect from me far quicker than the decieving ass holes. Sorry. I get fired up.
12/30/2011
Chirple Chirple
Quote:
Originally posted by Chirple
It would be great to have the info on the product pages, or company pages - but I appreciate how much work that would be with so many products.

Artisan-created products are more likely to be made in a "developed" country. For ... More
Read Antipova's review of the Intensity. Not your typical vibe, but made in the USA !
12/30/2011
catgirl9 catgirl9
Quote:
Originally posted by kendra30752
Wow! That was very interesting info Oxygen. Glad I came across this. I actually didn't even know they were made in China and had been planning to buy a couple someday. Lol. I hate that! It does suck that they can call thing natural or ... More
^ This, exactly. I was actually going to order the Spirit once one of my other items came back in stock. I think I'll pass now though. If I'm going to spend that much money, I'd expect someone to earn a decent wage to make it. It's not just the money, but also I want to know that the company is responsible.
12/30/2011
Antipova Antipova
Quote:
Originally posted by Adriana Ravenlust
But isn't a rechargeable battery more eco-friendly than your standard AAs? And silicone more green than jelly?
I am going to do some research on extraction and disposability of lithium vs. disposability of standard batteries before getting back to you... both are bad, but my gut says lithium is worse... but I don't know for sure, so I'm going to poke around and report back with what I find.

Thanks for inspiring me to actually look into things before spouting my gut instincts!
12/30/2011
Ms. Spice Ms. Spice
Quote:
Originally posted by Elnoa
lol. I will take up your challenge.

Silicone (or, more specifically, consumer grade silicone) is considered "environmentally friendly" for a few reasons:
1) The main ingredient used in its production is silica (sand), which is ... More
woo! thanks for explaining that to us. I feel so enlightened lol
12/30/2011
Illusional Illusional
Learn something new everyday
12/30/2011
~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Oxygen99
This might be a little bit of a rant, so bare with me.

First off; I try as hard as I can to only use vibes and dils that are made in the US. I think outsourcing sucks and I try to do my part to support American businesses. Companies ... More
Bravo for you posting this and sticking to your guns about it. I agree. I won't be using personal money to get one of these if I do acquire one.
12/30/2011
Nothere Nothere
Quote:
Originally posted by ~LaUr3n~
Bravo for you posting this and sticking to your guns about it. I agree. I won't be using personal money to get one of these if I do acquire one.
I dislike the hypocrisy of it as well and shall stay away from Leaf. I mean it looks soooo environmentally friendly...but it's not really, is it?
12/30/2011
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