Mandatory birth control for women on welfare, what do you think?

cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
link

The writer of this article is (Very rudely) stating that ALL women on welfare are incompetent and should not be allowed to have children.

This has greatly offended me. I am a single mom, on welfare, and I am a wonderful mom. My son is healthy, happy and thriving. The only reason I don't have a job is because I want to spend time with him until he is old enough to be away from me a little more.

I am in college right now so that I CAN give him a good life, and I cannot believe this article.

I understand that a good majority of people on welfare, are on it for the wrong reasons. But to judge an entire group of people based on economical status and opinion is completely unethical.
11/18/2010
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Taylor Taylor
I think most people probably agree that no one should be forced to be on birth control. However I do feel that birth control should be free if you cannot afford it.
11/18/2010
LicentiouslyYours LicentiouslyYours
Quote:
Originally posted by cherryredhead88
link

The writer of this article is (Very rudely) stating that ALL women on welfare are incompetent and should not be allowed to have children.

This has greatly offended me. I am a single mom, on welfare, and I am a wonderful mom. My ... More
I think, ethically, that anybody who needs public assistance to care for their children should refrain from having more, however, making birth control mandatory for people who seek assistance is flat out wrong and likely unconstitutional.

It's an old argument that's been around for awhile, but frankly it has even less merit since they passed the lifetime limits on welfare. You can no longer make a career out of being on welfare and having more kids to increase your benefits—five years is all you get so this guy and the people who think like him should just find something else to complain about.
11/18/2010
Riccio Riccio
I think that there are too many rich people having children. I say that the rich should not be allowed to breed, because they are stealing money from the working class to send their children off to expensive private schools.

The class war is the only war worth fighting!
  •   (1)
    I am personally offended by this
11/18/2010
~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Riccio
I think that there are too many rich people having children. I say that the rich should not be allowed to breed, because they are stealing money from the working class to send their children off to expensive private schools.

The class war is ... More
WHAT??????

They earn their money just like everyone else lol. How are they stealing money to send their children to school? Private schools do not get money from government and it is very hard to get money from the government to go to a private school. They rely on scholarships. My sister goes to a $40,000 a year private school and got NO money from the government. She earned a $20,000 a year scholarship and I am very proud of her.

I go to a $16,000 a year public school and get no money from the government because my parents make TOO much money (too "rich") that the government won't help me. So where do you get the idea that we steal money to go to school?


Anyways...@cherryredhe ad-there are programs in which you will lose your aid if you have another kid and I totally support this. I'm not sure that they require birth control though. I don't know if I would support that even though it makes logical sense, it isn't very ethical.
11/18/2010
~LaUr3n~ ~LaUr3n~
Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor
I think most people probably agree that no one should be forced to be on birth control. However I do feel that birth control should be free if you cannot afford it.
Condoms are free at clinics for those who cannot afford them.
11/18/2010
Emma (Girl With Fire) Emma (Girl With Fire)
I am also a single mom, on welfare. I was not on welfare until I separated from my husband. When we were together I worked on his days off so he could watch the kids. I screwed up my back shortly before we split up, and ended up being laid off after having to take 3 weeks off to recover. Without welfare I would not have been able to move out and get a place to raise my children. I could have moved back to my mothers house, but she is a hoarder and it is unlivable.

In Canada, or at least in Ontario, Welfare does not require you to actively attempt to find work until your children are both of school age. I think this is a good practice because parents should be allowed the opportunity to raise their own children, instead of having to work two jobs just to pay the babysitter and end up with less money then her at the end of the month. That being said, I am still applying to school in January, and if I had a friend or family member that I could rely on to babysit for a resonable price, I would actually be working. I hate being on welfare as do many other parents.

I think it is unfathomable to force women to take birth control if they are on welfare. I don't plan on having other children. However I do not take birth control. I am very careful about using protection, and will take plan B if necessary. I do not like taking medication of any kind, especially not if it has estrogen in it because it increases my chances of cancer. I also know a TON of people who have suffered adverse effects from the Depo shot, as well as the patch. My mother had 3 of her 5 children on 3 different types of birth control. As I said I am very careful, and I use protection, but I do not see the need to poison my body.

I is also insulting to assume that all women with children who are on social assistance are irresponsible. This is NOT the case. People who say stupid shit like that are usually uneducated when it comes to what they are actually talking about.
11/18/2010
Sir Sir
Personally, I feel that a person on welfare is on it because they do not have money. Therefore, they cannot AFFORD to have a child. Until they have the means to fully support and take care of a child, they should not have one, no - it is a disservice to the child themselves. Aside for that though, they are not incompetent or unintelligent - having no money means none of this.
11/18/2010
Alicia Alicia
Well I do not think birth control itself should be mandatory because it's medication which can have some pretty horrible side effects, so not everyone can take it. Like Laurel said, there's a time cap so that takes care of the idea of someone living on it and just continuing to have more kids as a way of getting more money.

I do think though that it should be mandatory that people on welfare are looking for jobs and working if they cna find a job and working with job placement agencies. I had to put my kids in daycare when two of them were babies because I had to work full time. Did I want to? No. I didn't. But would it have been fair of me to just quit my job and go on welfare to spend more time with them? Personally I don't think it would have been..
11/18/2010
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by cherryredhead88
link

The writer of this article is (Very rudely) stating that ALL women on welfare are incompetent and should not be allowed to have children.

This has greatly offended me. I am a single mom, on welfare, and I am a wonderful mom. My ... More
Enforced sterility is barbaric and quite illegal. When you consider that most birth control also reduces libido it's just plain criminal to say that just because you are on welfare you don't have the right to a libido or sexual reproduction. Now I also believe that people should be responsible for their decisions. I don't think increasing a person's welfare check because they have had another baby is necessarily correct either. No one increased my husband's paycheck or my lifepartner's paycheck when we had Monkey. Tax breaks should be available...still I dunno there really isn't an equitable solution. Forcing people to take drugs isn't the answer.
You are doing what you are supposed to Cherry You are in school to provide a better life for yourself and your child, you have nothing to be ashamed of...nor should you feel pressured to take birth control. The problem is with these young women who DON'T care about providing more for their kids...and like I said there really isn't an equitable answer that won't hurt someone.
11/18/2010
Emma (Girl With Fire) Emma (Girl With Fire)
Welfare is a service provided to aid people who are for whatever reason unable to support themselves fully for a TEMPORARY period. It is meant to aid in a transition into a working atmosphere so that the people on it can become self reliant. When it is being used for this, I do not think that there is any reason to criticize the person who is on it. Unless they are abusing the system, lying, or using their money for things like druguse or alcoholism, I think anybody looking down on them for being in a situation where they had to rely on the system is being a judgemental, closed minded ass.

There are a lot of people who are completely incapeable of supporting themselves, and have absolutely no desire to even attempt it, they hook up with people with money, or their parents support them. Nobody wants to force them into taking birth control.
11/18/2010
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by Riccio
I think that there are too many rich people having children. I say that the rich should not be allowed to breed, because they are stealing money from the working class to send their children off to expensive private schools.

The class war is ... More
Generally affleuent people do not have more children than they can afford to support and if I want to send my children to private school I'm not depriving anyone else's children of anything.
11/18/2010
cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
I didn't "go on welfare so I could spend time with my kid". He doesn't have his father, period. And he needs me around. I have tons of other resources personally that I am going to and the one thing that bothers me about all this is that people think that single moms on welfare are lazy and don't want to work. That isn't the case; I go to school half time and working my way up because I would rather work on having enough money so I can get OFF welfare.

And not everyone who is on welfare is incompetent to take care of their kids. I can't stand those women that have a kid every other year to make money. I agree with the fact that, that is horrible and the children don't deserve to be in that situation.

On the other hand, I know that with the economy the way it is right now a lot more people are turning to welfare to help keep their heads above water. I guess it strikes a chord with me because I take care of myself and my son and I make sure that I get things done that need to be.

Up here women on welfare do go to job placement agencies. I actually wish I could work right now but how are we supposed to find jobs when there are none?
11/18/2010
cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
Quote:
Originally posted by Airen Wolf
Enforced sterility is barbaric and quite illegal. When you consider that most birth control also reduces libido it's just plain criminal to say that just because you are on welfare you don't have the right to a libido or sexual reproduction. ... More
Yes I am indeed on birth control. I didn't want to have a kid but I got pregnant and I felt it was my responsibility to do the best I could for him. And I can't understand why other women don't see it that way either.

I do believe that if you are going to bring a child into this world, you need to take care of it. I can see why people looks at this the way they do because they don't know the whole situation and I'm sure there are plenty of women who give those of us who use it for good reason a bad name.
11/18/2010
Alicia Alicia
Quote:
Originally posted by cherryredhead88
I didn't "go on welfare so I could spend time with my kid". He doesn't have his father, period. And he needs me around. I have tons of other resources personally that I am going to and the one thing that bothers me about all this is ... More
I'm sorry if I took your post the wrong way, but in the post you said:

"The only reason I don't have a job is because I want to spend time with him until he is old enough to be away from me a little more."

If that is the case then it wouldn't be an issue of not being able to find a job, which is what I was talking about. I mean trust me I wanted to spend more time with my kids too, I just couldn't because I needed to work. They had to go to daycare and I worked full time and took night classes at the same time. It sucked yes, but it was what I had to do to stay afloat. I was able to have a job and I think that when people CAN work there should be no reason to not work unless they are able to somehow otherwise support themselves without assistance. I understand that jobs are hard to find, and I don't have issues with people who need to be on welfare, so long as they are actively trying to find work.
11/18/2010
Alan & Michele Alan & Michele
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Personally, I feel that a person on welfare is on it because they do not have money. Therefore, they cannot AFFORD to have a child. Until they have the means to fully support and take care of a child, they should not have one, no - it is a disservice ... More
I agree with this post, because if a parent was truly the type to want their children to have a good life, they would wait until they could provide for them before they had more. Welfare as I've seen it barely gives families enough to get by, so it seems irresponsible to add another baby into that situation and there's no excuse for it.

However, I've seen the nasty side effects that modern birth control (not including condoms) has on many women, my wife included, so I don't advocate anyone telling a woman that she has to subject her body to that garbage.
11/18/2010
Darling Jen Darling Jen
It sounds just like Eugenics part II to me and is equally wrong and disturbing. Here in the U.S. no one should agree with forcing people to give up any right based on their socioeconomic status. And if anyone is unfamiliar with the Eugenics Project, born out of a cousin of Charles Darwin here in the U.S., Virginia, I think, you should look it up. The history was well hidden.

I do think that people should be reasonable and at least try not to have babies they can't care for, but that's personal responsibility. And if they're bad enough parents, social services/child welfare can step in. But seriously, poor parents does not equal bad parents. They have just as much love, support, and morality as people with money. And the rich can easily become bankrupt and the poor can definitely alter their circumstances as well.
11/18/2010
Emma (Girl With Fire) Emma (Girl With Fire)
Quote:
Originally posted by Alan & Michele
I agree with this post, because if a parent was truly the type to want their children to have a good life, they would wait until they could provide for them before they had more. Welfare as I've seen it barely gives families enough to get by, so ... More
You should know that for some people waiting until they are more financially stable is not an option. I have a friend who I have known since we were 4, she finished teaching school and her and her new husband are both working as substitute teachers. I don't know if you know anything about substituting, but it is a very unstable work situation, you never know when you will have money coming in, sometimes it is a lot, other times hardly anything at all. However it is a necessary step in working as a full time teacher, it builds reputation in schools which puts you in a position where you are likely to be hired when a position becomes available. Now I don't know about you but I think that teaching is a very respectable job.

This same girl however has a mother who had a hormonal cancer, which is a cancer that is greatly effected by the types and amount of hormones in a persons body. This means that my friend has a higher likelyhood of developing this same type of cancer. Now, the problem is that every year that she does NOT get pregnant after the age of 26, the likelyhood of her developing this cancer goes up by 10%. She is already at an increased risk, so the question is, does she have a baby now? Lowering her risk of cancer substantially but bringing a baby into a less stable financial situation. Or does she wait, increasing her likelyhood of developing cancer, being in an even less stable financial situation when she can't work and cancer related bills are sucking her and her husbands finances dry, and then possibly dying leaving her child with no mother?

This is actually the case for many women, as cancer risk factors and exposure to carcinogenic materials ais on the rise. Breast cancer is far more common in women who waited and had children later in life. On top of that, there are increased risks during pregnancy, to both the mother and baby every year after a woman is 35.

How about the increased risk of breast cancer linked to the estrogen in birth control pills? There are A LOT of factors one must consider.

This is a system designed to help people temporarily, so that they have a better chance of becomming self reliant later. There are many many programs attached to Welfare, at least in Canada, aimed towards providing funding for work training, going back to school to become better educated and career ready, or simply just finding any sort of work that is out there to be had.
Somebody being in a situation where they need this system and take advantage of it, so that they can better their lives, is not something you should hold against them. Many MANY women end up on the system because they are in a relationship where the man works and wants the woman to stay home and take care of their children. The relationship breaks down and the woman is left alone, with children to support and no job or education beyond highschool or some college. Thus leaving them in a situation where they would be lucky to find a job that pays more than minimum wage, which depending on how many children they have, is not enough to support their family. It is not their fault they are in the situation they are in. They did not have children when they could not support them.

I agree fully that people abusing the system is wrong, and having babies solely to increase your welfare payments is FUCKED. A child should be brought into the world because the parents wanted a child to love and adore. For no other reason.
11/18/2010
DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
Quote:
Originally posted by Darling Jen
It sounds just like Eugenics part II to me and is equally wrong and disturbing. Here in the U.S. no one should agree with forcing people to give up any right based on their socioeconomic status. And if anyone is unfamiliar with the Eugenics Project, ... More
AGREED. The great USA has a long history of sterilizing the poor (which was, more often than not, women of colour) or the "damaged" (the deaf, blind, epileptics, the physically disabled and thementally ill) in the name of "public interest" without the knowledge or consent of those sterilized.

This is a hot-button issue of mine but I really concur the need for people to be more informed on the American tradition of eugenics.
11/18/2010
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by DeliciousSurprise
AGREED. The great USA has a long history of sterilizing the poor (which was, more often than not, women of colour) or the "damaged" (the deaf, blind, epileptics, the physically disabled and thementally ill) in the name of "public ... More
Word to ALL of what you said. This has been going up for a long time, as recently as the 70s, possibly even more recently (the 70s is just the most recent that I know of.) Seriously FUCK this so much. And yes, it's very much a hot-button issue for me as well.
11/18/2010
Vally Vally
Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor
I think most people probably agree that no one should be forced to be on birth control. However I do feel that birth control should be free if you cannot afford it.
btaylor I completely agree and I would include sterilization into that program. I also feel they need to remove the age limit on sterilization. I wanted to have my tubes tied when I was about 27 years old and I could not find a doctor to do it because I was young and had no children.

I am 41 now and still have no children and feel that I should have been allowed to have my tubes tied. Now I risk cancer from taking drugs that women over 40 are not supposed to take and can not afford to have my tubes tied.

I realize they do this because they don't want to reverse sterilizations, but shouldn't it be the woman's choice (or man's) as long as they understand the consequences?

Currently in my state a man can get assistance to have a vasectomy but there is no assistance for a tubiligation.

As for the article, I find it offensive as well. While I don't think it is a good idea to have more children while on welfare, I don't think forced sterilization is the answer.

By the way in the US most birthcontrol is free through organizations like Planned Parenthood for low income people. As I mentioned above they will even provide vasectomies. Even when I have insurance and a good job, I use Planned Parenthood to support what they do. Providing birth control resources is very important in my opinion.
11/18/2010
Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by Emma (Girl With Fire)
You should know that for some people waiting until they are more financially stable is not an option. I have a friend who I have known since we were 4, she finished teaching school and her and her new husband are both working as substitute teachers. ... More
I think this is an absolutely perfect example of why the concept of making a socioeconomic-wide rule just wouldn't be right at all. Thank you for sharing, Girl With Fire! And good luck to your friend as well. Teachers are the most important job in my opinion and they deserve more respect. Without teachers, we couldn't have any children growing up to be any profession at all.
11/18/2010
Alicia Alicia
Quote:
Originally posted by Vally
btaylor I completely agree and I would include sterilization into that program. I also feel they need to remove the age limit on sterilization. I wanted to have my tubes tied when I was about 27 years old and I could not find a doctor to do it ... More
Has Planned Parenthood changed or is the free birth control only available in some areas? When I was using Planned Parenthood...about I guess 12 years ago or so, the birth control pills were 45.00 a month there. Considering I was in school and only had a part time job that was a LOT of money. Luckily I had a boyfriend who had a slightly more than part time job and he contributed quite a bit to it, but had I been on my own for it I wouldn't have been able to afford it.

I agree about the sterilization being available to more people and being completely up to the person. My husband had a vasectomy when he was 27 and the doctor initially did not want to do it. We already had three children so he eventually did agree to it and luckily it was fully covered under our insurance. But, I know that a lot of people have a really hard time getting it when they don't have kids, which is just not right.
11/18/2010
DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
Oh, one more other thing that I forgot to mention in my post:

I did a little hunting, because I'm taking a course this semester about science, medicine and culture, and I recalled some info about family planning and federally sponsored health insurance. This is an example of link policy on family planning for medicare plans.

Policy and Rationale:
Family planning for prevention of pregnancy is only covered incidental to a physician office visit.

Sterilization is covered only when necessary as a part of the treatment of an illness or injury. Examples include, but are not limited to:
Removal of the uterus because of a tumor, removal of diseased ovaries
Bilateral orchidectomy of a mentally challenged member with prostate cancer

The following are examples of non-covered services, but are not limited to:
Birth control devices and procedures (e.g., IUD, diaphragm and other implantable birth control devices)
Over-the-counter supplies or prescription devices or drugs for birth control
Reversal of sterilization procedures
Elective hysterectomy, tubal ligation or vasectomy if the sole reason for the procedure is sterilization
Sterilization performed because the physician believes another pregnancy would endanger the overall general health of the woman
Sterilization performed only as a means to prevent the possible development of, or an effect on, a mental condition should the individual become pregnant
Sterilization performed only to prevent conception in a mentally challenged member
11/18/2010
cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
Quote:
Originally posted by Darling Jen
It sounds just like Eugenics part II to me and is equally wrong and disturbing. Here in the U.S. no one should agree with forcing people to give up any right based on their socioeconomic status. And if anyone is unfamiliar with the Eugenics Project, ... More
Wow that Eugenics stuff is interesting. I might do my final paper on that. I was thinking about doing it on this whole thing about the welfare/birth control.

Alicia- I understand where you are coming from as well. Trust me I am perfectly capable of working and I can't wait to get my ass back out there and do it. But between jobs being scarce and my son being so young still with just me, I decided to just keep my nose in the books. I'd rather do that now and be able to have a good job in the future for him so that we can turn around and help others.

That's why I'm glad that I am able to adopt a family for christmas. I am more than grateful to be able to give back to the community that helps me out so much, and I have eden to thank for that.
11/18/2010
Owl Identified Owl Identified
Quote:
Originally posted by cherryredhead88
Wow that Eugenics stuff is interesting. I might do my final paper on that. I was thinking about doing it on this whole thing about the welfare/birth control.

Alicia- I understand where you are coming from as well. Trust me I am perfectly ... More
I would recommend "The Means of Reproduction" as a good resource for your final paper!
11/18/2010
Alicia Alicia
Quote:
Originally posted by cherryredhead88
Wow that Eugenics stuff is interesting. I might do my final paper on that. I was thinking about doing it on this whole thing about the welfare/birth control.

Alicia- I understand where you are coming from as well. Trust me I am perfectly ... More
Yea, I understand more where you are coming from much more than I do others. My hostility towards people not working when on welfare does not come from people in your situation really, as you're going to school and looking at the assistance as a temporary thing and you don't seem to take it for granted at all. I also think it's a great thing to want to give back in any way you can, paying it forward is always an awesome thing to do. So, if I came off as harsh, it wasn't intended at you, just I guess something that strikes close to home in general since I know people who abuse the system (and have managed to for years and years)

Unfortunately, there are people that I know IRL who choose not to work simply because they don't want to and want to stay home with their kids. And trust me, I get that because there is nothing I'd like to do more than just be a SAHM. I think that daily as I rush around getting the housework done before I start work. But anyway... the ones I am speaking about are not going to school, they're not doing really much of anything. If they're supposed to be looking for jobs I guess they're doing a good job of avoiding getting any because our area is actually not been hit hard by the state of the economy (it's actually been named one of the most recession proof towns) and there are actually a lot of jobs available. It's an entitlement issue with them, which is completely different then what your situation is.
11/18/2010
cherryredhead88 cherryredhead88
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
I would recommend "The Means of Reproduction" as a good resource for your final paper!
Thanks, I will check it out Do you know what ValCat is? If so do you know if it would be on there?
11/18/2010
Kinkyquing Kinkyquing
Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor
I think most people probably agree that no one should be forced to be on birth control. However I do feel that birth control should be free if you cannot afford it.
This.
11/18/2010
Emma (Girl With Fire) Emma (Girl With Fire)
Quote:
Originally posted by Darling Jen
I think this is an absolutely perfect example of why the concept of making a socioeconomic-wide rule just wouldn't be right at all. Thank you for sharing, Girl With Fire! And good luck to your friend as well. Teachers are the most important job ... More
Thanks
11/18/2010
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