What of Apparent Elitism?

I had never thought of it that way - the fact that others may think she's only 'experimenting' or being squiffy. She understands some have issues about her being 'involved' with someone else, but it's also affecting regular friendships in the group.

It just seems there's so little room to maneuver when one is in a transition phase. less

I have had somewhat similar experiences. Any community - gay, straight, cyborg, what have you, will definitely have elitist members. I've come across women that weren't interested in me because I'm not a lesbian. I love women and men and everything in between and outside of those lines, but for some women it wasn't ok for me to be that way - maybe they had some kind of gold-star lesbian only standard? Not sure, but if they weren't interested in me, I didn't waste time finding out, I went in search of people who were interested.

My initial guess in my case is that some of them were involved with women experimenting with their sexuality and felt led or used on afterward? This could be what the women she's met so far are thinking - that she's not sure, is experimenting, or just looking for a little adventure. It does happen and I know women that have been in relationships and fallen in love with bi-curious women that ended up going back to a man or men in general and they get crushed. They could be trying to protect themselves but I'm not sure.

I've also had experiences with straight men that were no longer interested in me once they found out that straight men weren't my singular preference.

There's also a chance that there are people not interested because she is still married - I'm still legally married to my asshole of a husband, and although my current boyfriend understands it's just a matter of paperwork, I had another friend (who's actually an ex-boyfriend) tell me it's wrong to date while I'm still married - despite the fact I haven't seen or spoken to my 'husband' in 18 months.

Sexuality, like everything else, has its cliques, and its members that don't think that other people are 'allowed' if they're not as committed as themselves. It can be hard to break into any new community, and maybe she just needs to switch up the scene she's visiting - if she's going to gay-frequented nightclubs, maybe she could try a coffee house or something like that. Maybe try to find a group of lesbian and bisexual women with a common fairly liberal minded interest - they might be more likely to be open minded in general.

I wish her luck - coming out into a new sexuality is harder than you ever think until you're doing it. It will take time but she'll find the right people for her and her niche in that community. less

One of my close friends had recently (few years ago) finally admitted to herself and her husband that she was gay. This was after twenty years of marriage and two kids, and feeling a strange emptiness in her life because of her 'closeted' identity.

Her husband was understandably hurt ('So was she pretending all that time?') and their marriage is in limbo as she gets her education finished so she can move out and they can divorce. In the meantime, she is exploring the lesbian community in her area and meeting people. As far as I know, she has not had any relationships yet.

A hot button issue for her, though, that she brought up this morning was the coolness she was treated with by the community because she is 'still married to a man'. I'm not very familiar with the lifestyle, so I'm wondering if such 'elitism' is commonplace. Does it boil down to "You have to be EITHER Straight OR Gay and SHOW it"? Or is it just plain bitchiness of that group? Has anyone ever gone through this and what was your experience?

(I ask out of curiosity on my part, as well as being able to offer her proper support.) less

Chili, I have lesbian friends and one of the things they all hate is something some of them refer to as "being Heichted." Anne Heicht started an affair with Ellen Degeneres, then "decided" after a while that it was "just a phase" and left Ellen for a man. Leaving Ellen with a broken heart. Too many of my lesbian friends have been used the exact same way by women who are trying on the Bi or "now I'm lesbian" role, for little more than the coolness factor involved. I've seen my friends' hearts broken by these kinds of women.

I'm not saying your friend is one of these women, probably not. BUT, she is still living with her husband and many people would say, "If it was that bad, and you were serious you'd move out, no matter what the financial consequences were." Many women who realize they are Bi or Lesbian have taken huge drops in income when they left the men they were with, but did it anyway to remain true to their real feelings and real sexuality.

So, IMO, I don't think the other members of the lesbian community are being elitist at all. They are just protecting themselves and their other friends. If she really was serious about it, many people would say, "You'd leave the man you don't love. Not continue to use him for income, while still attempting to date."

Think about it this way, if she were in the process of a divorce and NOT lesbian, but wanted to date men, would most men be OK with her still living with her soon to be ex, for any reason and still date her? My guess is NO! Most people would say, "If you aren't in love with him, move the hell out. Money, education or anything else not-withstanding." It appears that she kind of wants the security and financial rewards of marriage to a man, while "testing out" whether "this whole dating women thing is going to work." Put her in a straight woman role, still living with a soon to be ex husband and telling men she wants to date, "It's only until I'm finished using his house and his money. Then, I'll be single and have my own place." See the issue?

I, for one, can't see how her husband tolerates this. I hate to be mean, but I'm siding with the lesbian community. She needs to make a decision, not take what she thinks are the best of both worlds. Sometimes being true to yourself takes a lot of courage, not leaning on an old habit, until you are "sure" you will be able to find someone else.

Being true to herself and true to her sexuality is more important than retaining a two person income. In most situations, one moves OUT if one wants to date others, no matter what the consequences. Lesbians aren't going to be any more tolerant of this "straddling the fence" than men would be. Sorry, but I totally see their side of it.
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This definitely made all the pieces fit into place, P'Gell. In complete honesty, I hadn't given much thought to it at all from the opposite side. I know she's struggling with trying to get her footing in the world (one of those married right out of high school types, so she never figured out who she was to begin with), and likely wasn't aware of how her situation looked to everyone else.

I had asked her if she was actively trying to find someone, and she said that she's searching for guidance and friendship right now, and is not expecting a relationship at this point. Again, I suppose that could also be interpreted as 'experimentation' by finding out what goes on.

I do appreciate the feedback. less

Thank you for taking my opinion in the manner in which it was intended (friendly. )

I hope she can find what she is looking for.

But, my guess is she'll have to find some time alone to work out her feelings, not to mention be considered "serious" by part of a community.

As you know, you can't move forward while still anchored in the past. You have to make the effort to take a chance and break into a new World and a New Life.

Best wishes to her. less

Chili, I have lesbian friends and one of the things they all hate is something some of them refer to as "being Heichted." Anne Heicht started an affair with Ellen Degeneres, then "decided" after a while that it was "just a phase" and left Ellen for a man. Leaving Ellen with a broken heart. Too many of my lesbian friends have been used the exact same way by women who are trying on the Bi or "now I'm lesbian" role, for little more than the coolness factor involved. I've seen my friends' hearts broken by these kinds of women.

I'm not saying your friend is one of these women, probably not. BUT, she is still living with her husband and many people would say, "If it was that bad, and you were serious you'd move out, no matter what the financial consequences were." Many women who realize they are Bi or Lesbian have taken huge drops in income when they left the men they were with, but did it anyway to remain true to their real feelings and real sexuality.

So, IMO, I don't think the other members of the lesbian community are being elitist at all. They are just protecting themselves and their other friends. If she really was serious about it, many people would say, "You'd leave the man you don't love. Not continue to use him for income, while still attempting to date."

Think about it this way, if she were in the process of a divorce and NOT lesbian, but wanted to date men, would most men be OK with her still living with her soon to be ex, for any reason and still date her? My guess is NO! Most people would say, "If you aren't in love with him, move the hell out. Money, education or anything else not-withstanding." It appears that she kind of wants the security and financial rewards of marriage to a man, while "testing out" whether "this whole dating women thing is going to work." Put her in a straight woman role, still living with a soon to be ex husband and telling men she wants to date, "It's only until I'm finished using his house and his money. Then, I'll be single and have my own place." See the issue?

I, for one, can't see how her husband tolerates this. I hate to be mean, but I'm siding with the lesbian community. She needs to make a decision, not take what she thinks are the best of both worlds. Sometimes being true to yourself takes a lot of courage, not leaning on an old habit, until you are "sure" you will be able to find someone else.

Being true to herself and true to her sexuality is more important than retaining a two person income. In most situations, one moves OUT if one wants to date others, no matter what the consequences. Lesbians aren't going to be any more tolerant of this "straddling the fence" than men would be. Sorry, but I totally see their side of it.
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