Gay guys dating transwoman, and lesbians dating transguys. Disrespectful?

tom fay tom fay 03/20/2012

I see a lot of discussions about it on youtube and Tumblr. And some people feel like being "gay" is detrimental to their identity, and when they get together with a person of the opposite gender, but not genitals, they do not feel like changing their orientation 'label' at all. And some trans persons do no feel offended by this, some feel its offensive or demeaning of their gender.

Invited: All users.

Discussion Topics

1.
tom fay tom fay
trans persons being dated by cis-gendered gay/lesbians of the opposite gender
Answers (public voting - your screen name will appear in the results):
I respect them, i just feel better identifying as 'gay/lesbian'
I would find it offensive
blixa , Sir , tom fay
3  (6%)
I dont see how this would be a problem
Chirple , MR Chickhabit , TheParrishism , Jon S , Silverdrop , Incendiaire , Tangles , Azule , Elnoa , pestilence , Voir , AcrossAFlower , Schattenstern , Curiouscat , TheGreat , ellejay , Zombirella , hatman , MasonM , Caus , MistressDandelion , Stinkytofu10 , Naminia , indiglo , quinceykay , Touko , catsin , Mew , SJ88 , HannahPanda , aliceinthehole , Secret Pleasure , eroticmutt , Missmarc , TransMarc , sktb0007 , Kitka , PeaceToTheMiddleEast , Llewey , Master DarkWolf , hyacinthgirl
41  (77%)
I would feel upset but its not a deal breaker
Rab , Nontoxic , u
3  (6%)
I would say some nasty things
I would change my label if my partner felt offended, but wouldn't if it wasn't brought up
jesseftm , lukas24 , Sam I Am , Caulfield , IdentifierExpected , Cal
6  (11%)
Total votes: 53
Poll is closed
03/20/2012
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Chirple Chirple
If they're happy with each other, I don't see a problem.

I think it's only a problem if they're with you because they don't see you as your desired sex.

Both gay and straight people don't have to be 100% gay or straight - sometimes "exceptions" happen. I know many cis-gay people who have dated cis-people of the "opposite sex" without changing their "label". Exceptions do happen - and sometimes things happen that we don't fully understand.

I think both communities put too much pressure on people to label themselves. Like gay people being shamed for having fallen for someone who's hetero from their perspective.

Labels are really personal and can be hard to explain to others why one is used over another, and unless there's disrespect going on in the relationship, I don't see a problem.
03/20/2012
Nazaress Nazaress
Quote:
Originally posted by Chirple
If they're happy with each other, I don't see a problem.

I think it's only a problem if they're with you because they don't see you as your desired sex.

Both gay and straight people don't have to be 100% gay or ... More
I'm not going to vote because I'm not sure how I feel but I wanted to say something in response to this post. Labels really can be detrimental. I am, as far as I'm concerned, a lesbian. I am 100% attracted to women and I'm not attracted to (nearly) any man but I'm in a committed relationship with a man right now. We'll likely even get married because we're so in love. Do I think that makes me bisexual? No. He is an exception to my lesbianism but I don't feel that I am any less of a lesbian. I'd never turn down a vagina but all other penises than my boyfriend's turn me off. (By the way, this isn't to say that women with penises aren't women. They are. I'm simply only attracted to both the female form and vaginas, not males forms or penises.) I just consider myself a "lesbian with a boyfriend" now to make things easier for everyone else. Have I been shamed/embarrassed for being in a heterosexual relationship? Yes. People have given me strange looks and asked a lot of questions when they found out that I was in a straight relationship. My brother-in-law made me feel very uncomfortable because I guess I'm not "gay" enough now. So labels can be pretty dumb sometimes.

I do agree, however, that it could definitely be construed as offensive if, say, a lesbian got into a relationship with a transmale and didn't consider themselves anything but a lesbian because they looked at him as though he were not a man simply because of his genitals.
03/21/2012
jesseftm jesseftm
Quote:
Originally posted by Nazaress
I'm not going to vote because I'm not sure how I feel but I wanted to say something in response to this post. Labels really can be detrimental. I am, as far as I'm concerned, a lesbian. I am 100% attracted to women and I'm not ... More
I think your response is spot on.
03/21/2012
tom fay tom fay
Quote:
Originally posted by Chirple
If they're happy with each other, I don't see a problem.

I think it's only a problem if they're with you because they don't see you as your desired sex.

Both gay and straight people don't have to be 100% gay or ... More
Yeah, thanks for the thought out reply. human behavior is funny sometime *le sigh* i never thought about the 'shame of having fallen for hetero person' but true ay
03/21/2012
MR Chickhabit MR Chickhabit
transwomen are awesome.
03/21/2012
tom fay tom fay
Quote:
Originally posted by Nazaress
I'm not going to vote because I'm not sure how I feel but I wanted to say something in response to this post. Labels really can be detrimental. I am, as far as I'm concerned, a lesbian. I am 100% attracted to women and I'm not ... More
Thank you for your reply. It sucks that your brother hassled you. I really agree that its a no no if the person is only with them because they were on interested in female genitals (or male) and the gender they had once been. i guess my question was more about where it has worked and and you have kept your label, so yeah, i appreciate it!
03/21/2012
GONE! GONE!
Quote:
Originally posted by Chirple
If they're happy with each other, I don't see a problem.

I think it's only a problem if they're with you because they don't see you as your desired sex.

Both gay and straight people don't have to be 100% gay or ... More
This. I've dated a woman who identified as lesbian before and while it ended up being a dealbreaker because she actively wanted me to be a woman, not an exception, I'm not going to tell people who they should and shouldn't date. I don't think it necessarily has to be a disrespectful situation.
03/21/2012
TheParrishism TheParrishism
I think that there are always exceptions. Labels can hold people back in some way.
I find that there are different types of, lets say lesbians for the example's sake. There are lesbians who like women for their personality and their femininity. Some lesbians like women for their bodies. This can make a difference as to wither it would be offensive or not, but the biggest thing would be how the persons involved felt about it.
03/21/2012
Silverdrop Silverdrop
Unless one of the two people is my sex partner, I can't see how it would be any of my business to be offended.
03/21/2012
Rab Rab
my fiancee is a die-hard lesbian and has built her entire public persona around that fact
however, as I've come to realize I'm more male, we've had to work through things together and find a common ground where she can still be a lesbian all she wants as long as she respects that I'm her boyfriend now
I'm not stealth, which makes things easier, so she just explains to people that yes, she is gay, and yes, she does have a male partner, but he used to identify as female, so it's not a big deal
not gonna lie, it was hard at first because I felt invalidated every time she came out
03/21/2012
Tangles Tangles
I'm a lesbian and I am dating a man who is trans*. He is not bothered by my identity and I am not bothered by his.

I think it's interesting, in reading about other relationships like mine, that people are so offended by the lesbian's identity and think she isn't a /real/ lesbian and demand that she change what she calls herself. The transman never catches any heat in that situation. Neither should be catching heat, though, because identity policing is lame and the only people it should concern are the people in the relationship.
03/21/2012
El-Jaro El-Jaro
Quote:
Originally posted by Chirple
If they're happy with each other, I don't see a problem.

I think it's only a problem if they're with you because they don't see you as your desired sex.

Both gay and straight people don't have to be 100% gay or ... More
This is exactly how I feel about it!
03/21/2012
Voir Voir
Quote:
Originally posted by Silverdrop
Unless one of the two people is my sex partner, I can't see how it would be any of my business to be offended.
^ agree with this 100%
03/21/2012
tom fay tom fay
Quote:
Originally posted by Rab
my fiancee is a die-hard lesbian and has built her entire public persona around that fact
however, as I've come to realize I'm more male, we've had to work through things together and find a common ground where she can still be a ... More
if you were stealth do you think it would bother you less that she identifies as lesbian? and does it ever make you uncomfortable that saying you used to identify as female makes easier to explain or for other people to feel they understand? like for me, it stopped being a problem when i started to pass 100% and went, for the most part stealth unintentionally. and they never brought up my gender, so its kind of funny when my boyfriend says he used to be a lesbian or that hes not gay. and i know its just coz they dont get it, but i dont feel like they wouldnt understand my gender, or his, if they did. So im guess im saying is it explaining her label or your gender that make it uncomfortable
03/21/2012
tom fay tom fay
Quote:
Originally posted by Tangles
I'm a lesbian and I am dating a man who is trans*. He is not bothered by my identity and I am not bothered by his.

I think it's interesting, in reading about other relationships like mine, that people are so offended by the ... More
What is harder to explain/makes it easier to explain (assuming you do explain it)When you essentially say, 'i am a lesbian, and this is my boyfriend.' is it usually your boyfriends gender that has to be explained the most, or your identity? how often do people not ask offensive questions? Does telling people this cause them to ask overly invasive questions about your relationship that would not have been asked were he a cis male, and you a lesbian?
03/21/2012
Schattenstern Schattenstern
This is why everyone just needs to be pansexual and then the world would be so much betterrrrr!
03/21/2012
ellejay ellejay
I don't see a problem with it.
03/21/2012
nori nori
It bothered me for a while. Two good friends of mine are dating; One is a self-proclaimed lesbian, never felt attraction to males before her (trans) boyfriend. I.. thought it was disrespectful to the guy's identity, that there was no change to her label.

But I kind of realized label =/= orientation. Labels are just the best guestimation.
03/22/2012
Zombirella Zombirella
Quote:
Originally posted by tom fay
trans persons being dated by cis-gendered gay/lesbians of the opposite gender
I don't see how this could be a problem. It doesn't bother me at all.
03/22/2012
MasonM MasonM
Quote:
Originally posted by tom fay
trans persons being dated by cis-gendered gay/lesbians of the opposite gender
I'm a transman and I'm married to a cisman. We love one another, so when asked, I say that I'm homosexual because I am indeed a male that prefers other males.

He refers to himself as bisexual with a preference for females, but will tell anyone that tries to say he must not love me if that's the case that they're a complete idiot, because he knows that I'm a man and he loves me no matter what.
03/22/2012
blixa blixa
I know that some people call themselves gay and lesbian not because they believe they're exclusively attracted to male-identified and female-identified people only (respectively) but because it's easier than explaining "mom, dad? I'm sexually attracted to this certain kind of body" or "I'm attracted to butch-presenting people" and so on. But if my partner emphatically said they were only attracted to WOMEN, and wanted to keep carrying on with me... I'm not a woman, either that attraction's not as absolute and exclusive as they claim it is, or they're misgendering me/not treating my gender identity as legitimate because all I'll ever be to them is a really committed dyke. I'd be really hurt. It's between the trans* person in question and their partner, but I would be very offended if my partner insisted inflexibly that they were really just an exclusively straight man or an exclusively gay woman, and that I didn't count.
03/23/2012
Caus Caus
If two people want to be together, they should be able to. Labels should fall accordingly to what the couple wants.
03/23/2012
MistressDandelion MistressDandelion
Quote:
Originally posted by Chirple
If they're happy with each other, I don't see a problem.

I think it's only a problem if they're with you because they don't see you as your desired sex.

Both gay and straight people don't have to be 100% gay or ... More
This. Well said.
03/24/2012
TheParrishism TheParrishism
Quote:
Originally posted by Schattenstern
This is why everyone just needs to be pansexual and then the world would be so much betterrrrr!
But how boring would it be if everyone were the same like that?
03/24/2012
Stinkytofu10 Stinkytofu10
Labels...ugh.
03/24/2012
Nontoxic Nontoxic
Since I'm a trans guy attracted to men (and other masculine-identified people), it'd irk me if a guy identified as primarily straight.
03/24/2012
charletnarouh charletnarouh
I'm a lesbian. I've never dated a trans* man or wanted to because I'm not attracted to men, even if they don't have a penis. By the same token, I love the female body so a non-female bodied trans* woman, wouldn't quite do it for me either. It's not that I'm closed off to the idea, it's just that it doesn't quite suit what I need in a sexual partner. But, I've found both trans* men and women attractive at different times. I've definitely met some really sexy trans* men. Never met one I really wanted to sleep with, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. I think that once you're with someone, it sort of ceases to matter what your orientation is. When I'm in a relationship with a woman, I stop really feeling the need to "come out" as a lesbian and just talk about or introduce my partner who is a woman. If asked, I will say I'm a lesbian for simplicity's sake, but the label just no longer matters because I'm just the person who is dating my partner who happens to be a woman. If I ever was to start dating a trans* woman, there'd be no issue because she's a woman and I'm a lesbian so all remains unaffected. If I ever was to start dating a trans* man or in the less likely case that I started dating a man, I think I'd consider that person an exception to my rule, but I'd probably shift my label, when pressed to label myself at all, to pan or bi, at least to an extent. For the most part though, I think I'd just be the person who was dating my partner, and avoid labeling as much as possible.
03/24/2012
charletnarouh charletnarouh
Quote:
Originally posted by charletnarouh
I'm a lesbian. I've never dated a trans* man or wanted to because I'm not attracted to men, even if they don't have a penis. By the same token, I love the female body so a non-female bodied trans* woman, wouldn't quite do it for ... More
Oh, to more directly address the question, I only really see it as an issue if someone refused to acknowledge that the trans* person they are dating is, in fact, the gender they identify as. Ie: If I were to start dating a trans* man and said, well, you're not /really/ a man. Or by the same token, if I were to start dating a trans* woman and said, well, since you're not really a woman I'm not really a lesbian anymore, that would be equally problematic. But as long as the the people in the relationship are happy with each other and their respective identities, I'm certainly not going to challenge them.
03/24/2012
Sir Sir
Incredibly offensive. If you are a person who identifies as lesbian and you're dating a transman, why are you dating him? Lesbian means that you are a woman who likes women. If you are dating a man and like him, then you are no longer lesbian. You may be romantically open, though, but sexually only attracted to women. It depends. Same with a man who identifies as gay and dates a transwoman - it simply makes no sense to hold such value on a label when it's not important and should be dropped once with someone who doesn't fit it.

While I find nothing wrong with it if others do it, it is incredibly disrespectful and it invalidates a person's identity. I find it rude and obnoxious. It may not seem like it's disrespectful, but it is. It's basically like telling the world, "I DON'T SEE MY PARTNER AS WHAT THEY IDENTIFY AS!" If you are so attached to your label, then go be attached to your label and stop disrespecting trans- individuals.
03/24/2012
tom fay tom fay
Quote:
Originally posted by charletnarouh
Oh, to more directly address the question, I only really see it as an issue if someone refused to acknowledge that the trans* person they are dating is, in fact, the gender they identify as. Ie: If I were to start dating a trans* man and said, well, ... More
Thank you for taking the time to comment! I really appreciate your answer, and its probably the closest to how i feel about this discussion too.
03/25/2012
tom fay tom fay
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Incredibly offensive. If you are a person who identifies as lesbian and you're dating a transman, why are you dating him? Lesbian means that you are a woman who likes women. If you are dating a man and like him, then you are no longer lesbian. ... More
I agree, lesbian is not a 'way of life' or mean anything but 'women who are sexually attracted to women' and I dont understand people who hold onto that label when it is not relevant to a situation. I can see how it might work if they are just using it as a generalization of their attractions. But not if they truly felt thats what 'who' they were.
03/25/2012
HannahPanda HannahPanda
I think it's really up to opinion at the end of the day.
03/25/2012
eroticmutt eroticmutt
Quote:
Originally posted by tom fay
trans persons being dated by cis-gendered gay/lesbians of the opposite gender
As long as those two people are happy together I do not care
03/26/2012
TransMarc TransMarc
Some lesbians fall for cisguys. Some gays fall for ciswomen. It works with trans too... It can either be romantical or an "exceptional" ; sexual attraction, etc. As long as they still see the person as the gender they are, they can keep their labels, even if I guess it would pose me problem it would be the same kind that cisguys who were asked out by lesbians might have; it happens. (from my point of view, not talking about how others would feel)
03/28/2012
Chirple Chirple
Quote:
Originally posted by tom fay
I agree, lesbian is not a 'way of life' or mean anything but 'women who are sexually attracted to women' and I dont understand people who hold onto that label when it is not relevant to a situation. I can see how it might work if ... More
I think people get emotionally attached to labels and the sense of kinship and "not being alone in the world" that it brings - for better or worse. And give it a lot of meaning beyond just "woman who likes women" and such.

Being in a group can be like being adopted into a new family - there's support and belonging. I can understand why that causes attachment and people don't want to give it up.
03/29/2012
tom fay tom fay
Quote:
Originally posted by TransMarc
Some lesbians fall for cisguys. Some gays fall for ciswomen. It works with trans too... It can either be romantical or an "exceptional" ; sexual attraction, etc. As long as they still see the person as the gender they are, they can keep ... More
thank you for commenting its kinda funny that some people feel differently it it was a cis gendered cenareo, rather than a trans one
03/29/2012
u u
Some people: “If I'm not with a butch everyone just assumes I'm straight. It's like I'm passing too, against my will. I'm sick of the world thinking I'm straight. I've worked hard to be discriminated against as a lesbian”

Other people: "Idgaf I'll be straight if you want me to honey"
03/29/2012
hyacinthgirl hyacinthgirl
One of my closest friends is homosexual and hetero-romantic. She vastly prefers the female body sexually and is generally grossed out by male bodies. However, she has found that her most successful romantic relationships are with men, either trans or cis. She is in a long-term relationship with a cis-man, and loves him a lot. She also has a long-term sexual relationship with a woman. Her boyfriend is okay with it, and I say fine for them.

I think there is some degree in flexibility when it comes to romance and sexuality. If there is one man in the world you would date, does that invalidate that love is the major reason you desire them sexually, as opposed to natural inclination? If you would only have sex with one person ever of your non-preferred gender or sex, I don't think that invalidates a sexual identity.
03/29/2012
Llewey Llewey
The way some people may see it is gay means 'homosexual' specifically. In this case, they would be right. While the person they're with is the other gender, they are still the same sex (in most cases).

Mostly, as long as both partners are happy and okay with not obsessing about labels, they should be fine.
03/30/2012
kenny.the.dinosaur kenny.the.dinosaur
Who cares about labels?
04/18/2012
TakeHimAway TakeHimAway
Quote:
Originally posted by tom fay
trans persons being dated by cis-gendered gay/lesbians of the opposite gender
I don't care who dates who.
05/14/2012
cryinglightning86 cryinglightning86
As long as the individuals in the relationship are happy, who cares?
05/16/2012
Youssii Youssii
As a trans* guyish thingamabob, I wouldn't be offended if a partner identified as a lesbian as long as they respected that I wasn't female, and that whilst they are a lesbian, our particular relationship wasn't.
05/16/2012
vegweg vegweg
This is actually something I've been struggling with lately. According to some people, I'm pan. According to others, I'm bi. And before I got into a serious relationship with a transguy, I'd started to think of myself as a bit of a lesbian. I used to think I was bi, but slowly realized that every relationship I had with a guy was based on solely on sex with no emotional connection and no desire to spend time with them for any other purpose, compared to relationships with girls that were, in my eyes, more fulfilling. As such, I started to view myself as bisexual with a strong preference for females or a lesbian who occasionally enjoyed sex with a man, depending on who I was talking to. Then I got into this relationship and it wasn't such a big deal. So, to be honest, I don't really know what I am. I'm happy with my boyfriend and that's all that matters.
05/16/2012
thisisadeletedaccount thisisadeletedaccount
I'm a genderqueer person and one of my partners used to identify as a lesbian - she has changed her identity over time and at this point just says "I'm fluid" and doesn't like using labels for herself. It might make me a bit nervous if she still identified as lesbian because I have a lot of personal anxiety about not being enough of a real man or a real woman to satisfy anyone with a monosexual identity, but that's a personal thing on my part. I think any combination of labels and genders in partners is okay as long as everyone is happy and feels supported in being themselves.
05/17/2012
svalentine;) svalentine;)
i think it is up to that person and what makes them feel comfortable
06/27/2012
Andrew1992 Andrew1992
Quote:
Originally posted by tom fay
trans persons being dated by cis-gendered gay/lesbians of the opposite gender
Not really. Gay people can sometimes have heterosexual flings too.
06/27/2012
Rawst Rawst
Some situations are more offensive than others.

I identify as gay, even though I'm technically bi. Less people question my preferred gender over it, for whatever reason.
07/05/2012
Total posts: 49
Unique posters: 39