What do you think about the Indiana ruling to allow the unlawful entry of Police officers into your home?

Contributor: M121212 M121212
That's horrible! Definitely worth contesting.
07/03/2011
Contributor: Maeby Maeby
I disagree with the law, and it definitely strikes me as a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment. But based on the articles you linked to, it doesn't necessarily give police the right to enter your home for no reason, it just takes away your right to resist them entering your home (six of one, I know, but I would think that the distinction has legal implications--like, you can't stop a warrantless police officer from entering your home and finding evidence against you, but that evidence won't be admissible because the initial entry was still illegal.) Maybe I'm wrong--I'm certainly no lawyer.

As others have pointed out, the case in question was a bit more complicated than an overzealous police officer on a power trip. There was a domestic disturbance and the husband refused to allow police to enter the home (one article states that the wife actually called 911). While I don't believe police should have a blanket right to enter private property without going through the proper channels, surely there should be (or is?) some exception for cases in which an officer reasonably believes someone could be in danger.

Just curious, where did you find the information about a sheriff wanting to conduct random searches? It wasn't in either of the articles.

I also agree with the posters who have pointed out that this gives an advantage to criminals impersonating police officers. Scary!
07/03/2011
Contributor: Eucaly Eucaly
No, no.

If there is any justice in America, this should be overturned as unconstitutional.
07/03/2011
Contributor: Errant Venture Errant Venture
I don't know the constitution well, or at all, to know if it's a total breach of it, but I'm against it. It should only be allowed in times of emergency, not a random thing.
07/04/2011
Contributor: Gunsmoke Gunsmoke
Doesn't anyone care about the woman who was trapped inside by her abusive husband?
07/04/2011
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by Gunsmoke
Doesn't anyone care about the woman who was trapped inside by her abusive husband?
Quite frankly it sounds like your just concern trolling. Multiple people in this thread have expressed concern over the abused women (see myself Maeby, Emma, etc.) the dissenting judges showed concern.

As I've already posted this case is NOT ,as you claimed, limited to cases of domestic violence according to multiple sources. You call us "knee-jerk" and uncaring yet you seem to be clearly ignoring all the evidence in front of you and providing no evidence to prove your side. Again where did you read that this was limited to case of domestic abuse when the articles linked clearly say the opposite?.

How is it uncaring to agree with the dissenting judges that the case sound have been limited to domestic violence? How is the concern for the 14th amendment equal to not caring for the battered women?
07/04/2011
Contributor: Gunsmoke Gunsmoke
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
Quite frankly it sounds like your just concern trolling. Multiple people in this thread have expressed concern over the abused women (see myself Maeby, Emma, etc.) the dissenting judges showed concern.

As I've already posted this case is ... more
I don't fear public safety personnel and I'm not fixated by theoretical arguments. In practical terms, if the police have come to your door there is a reason for it. Following the law generally protects you from this type of issue. But if you're going to bring attention to yourself - well there are consequences.

I don't expect you to agree and I'm not trying to change your mind. But I'll give you an example of 'theoretical' rights being violated.

In the recent past the NSA and CIA began 'monitoring' phone traffic. Rights groups went ballistic - as if they care about what you are saying to grandma. the truth is that the phone companies monitor phone traffic every day. They are looking for patterns that indicate fraud. In the case of the NSA, they are looking for patterns that indicate terrorist activity.

They don't have the time or interest to actually listen to calls. This only happens after a person of interest has made contact with known or suspected terrorists.

These 'pattern' recognition programs are largely the reason that most terrorist plots are not stopped before they progress too far.

Believe me it's far less obtrusive to have the patterns of your phone traffic monitored than it is to go through security at the airport - which we have all done many times.

There are reasonable limits to rights and courts are there to make those determinations - and there are endless appeals for those who disagree.

You are within your rights to make your outrage known - but I also have the right to disagree with what I see as over restriction of law enforcement to keep us safe.
07/04/2011
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by Gunsmoke
I don't fear public safety personnel and I'm not fixated by theoretical arguments. In practical terms, if the police have come to your door there is a reason for it. Following the law generally protects you from this type of issue. But if ... more
That all well and good but it doesn't answer the questions I asked you.

You said the if you read the the article carefully we would see the case was limited to case of domestic violence, hence implying that other didn't read the article carefully. Yet none of what you write in response comes from the article or even this case.

For the third time: Where is your sources that the case as decided by the majority opinion is limited in scope to cases of suspected domestic violence? You made a statement about the ruling itself I twice asked for a source. Your personal ideology is not equal to what the judges decided in their ruling.

I asked: "How is it uncaring to agree with the dissenting judges that the case sound have been limited to domestic violence?"

This would have been directly line with you own earlier categorization of the law (that it was limited to case of domestic violence). If you truly believed in your earlier statement then you should be siding with the dissent or at least not categorizing those that agree with that view as overly restricting law enforcement.

You only cared about the poor abused woman until you could no longer use her story for your side. Now that I punched holes in that argument is that your true ,your above well..if you attract attention to yourself argument, comes out. It is your right to have that opinion but have the bullocks to come out and say it upfront and not hide behind "Won't somebody pleeeease think of the women!".
07/04/2011
Contributor: Gunsmoke Gunsmoke
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
That all well and good but it doesn't answer the questions I asked you.

You said the if you read the the article carefully we would see the case was limited to case of domestic violence, hence implying that other didn't read the ... more
I guess your opinion is now gospel - congratulations, you've accomplished nothing.
07/05/2011
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by Gunsmoke
I guess your opinion is now gospel - congratulations, you've accomplished nothing.
Congratulations you've proven your a troll or too obtuse to understand the difference between a fact and an opinion.

You made a factual claim about the article, I showed that that claim was false. The article does not say this was limited to case of domestic violence. This is not an opinion, your claim wasn't in the article linked the article in fact contradicts it.

You claimed that according to the ruling this was limited to case of domestic violence. You gave me your personal political views. YOU are not the ruling, you were not a judge on the case, your views weren't part of the ruling. It ironic you accuse other of presenting their view as gospel when you give us your views when asked how something is according to the ruling (which was written by people who are not you).

For the fourth and final time. Do you have a source for your claim that according to the ruling this case was limited to case of domestic violence? (as in according to the judges not you, again you are not the ruling. It is their views not yours that sets precedent).

If asking for a source when someone claims that according to Y then X is saying their opinion is Gospel then every scientists, lawyer and everyone who has ever done a research paper is now a preacher.
07/05/2011
Contributor: Gunsmoke Gunsmoke
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
Congratulations you've proven your a troll or too obtuse to understand the difference between a fact and an opinion.

You made a factual claim about the article, I showed that that claim was false. The article does not say this was limited ... more
Your expressing your opinion - no more, no less. We disagree, get over it.
07/05/2011
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by Gunsmoke
Your expressing your opinion - no more, no less. We disagree, get over it.
This is going to be my last post to you on this:

"Rucker and Dickson suggested if the court had limited its permission for police entry to domestic violence situations they would have supported the ruling"

This is not my opinion these are the words that were in the articles linked, the same article you claimed said the case was limited to cases of domestic violence. That the words "if the court had limited its permission for police entry to domestic violence" are in the article, is a fact, these words are the opposite of what you claimed, get over it.
07/05/2011
Contributor: The Curious Couple The Curious Couple
This does worry me quite a bit. It sounds like a lot of room for power abuse.
07/05/2011
Contributor: EvilHomer EvilHomer
To be clear, from the articles, it appears only that is illegal to resist an officer who performs a search without a warrant. In my opinion resistance should be allowed. However, the case does not appear authorize search without a warrant, nor does it allow any evidence gathered during the search to be used in criminal proceedings.

As for the sheriff who plans to use the ruling to do random home searches, he is likely to find himself getting evidence thrown out of court and possibly the subject of some lawsuits.
09/10/2011
Contributor: oldhippy oldhippy
I hate to say it, but this whole thing goes back to Homeland Security, and the laws established after 9/11 that were railroaded down the throat of America at that time. That was the start of the loss of our personal freedoms in this country. As Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up freedom for security deserve to lose both." It is true, and it is what is happening in this country faster than most of us care to think about. If you think about all of the things that have been made "legal" now that shouldn't be and weren't prior to 9/11, you will begin to see what has happened and how we are moving to a police state, but with no one in charge except possibly the FBI, or Homeland Security, see:"Big Brother".
09/11/2011
Contributor: Wildchild Wildchild
Quote:
Originally posted by Sex'и'Violence
link

link

Recently, the Indiana Supreme court passed a ruling that would allow police officers the right to enter a home without the needing a warrant. To top this off, a County Sheriff in Lafayette said he was going to use the ruling ... more
It's completly illegal, I am speechless!
09/11/2011
Contributor: emiliaa emiliaa
Well fuck, I know where I'm not moving to...or even visiting >.>
09/11/2011
Contributor: Cream in the Cupcake Cream in the Cupcake
What Constitution? The Patriot Act voided that thing.
09/18/2011
Contributor: bettle590 bettle590
It is against the constitution but i'm not surprised. look at how stuff like "separation of church and state" is treated.

This is also a major loophole for police brutality and racism. Cops abuse their power and shouldn't be given any more until it stops.
10/31/2012