How do you feel about the "Point proposal"?

snowminx snowminx
Since Fred decided to put it on himself to close his own thread while ignoring multiple questions/comments of value I decided to make this post so we can actually talk about these things.

For anyone that might not have been here earlier today and not seen the new thread here it is- Point reconsideration proposal

I think it's important to note that not one single user voted "yes" on this idea being fair with these conditions so feel free to add what you do think would be a fair trade off for the points we already earned.

***Disclaimer- I, Snowminx, in no way made this thread with the intentions of just getting points from it.***
06/23/2013
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GonetoLovehoney GonetoLovehoney
I doubt it'll ever work. There are too many people that need to be 'sorted out' and a skeleton crew that he'll have to pay overtime for in order to get through this in the '4 weeks' he states.

There are tons of contributors that haven't written reviews and are still helping the site out.
In addition, by those rulings, NO ONE is safe from having their points taken away. Everyone applies to this in some form or another, ESPECIALLY when they're new and just starting out. Excitedly doing things to the limit to gain points from a program that FRED put in place.

If you're the owner and blame all misdoings on your employees, you are failing as a businessperson. Everything goes through the OWNER, it gets approved/greenlighted/ shot down. It's all on Fred and he effed up big time. Accusing everyone of 'stealing' and 'lying' when they're just using the points program that he put in place is no way to keep us here.


(I also didn't reply to obtain points, since they're useless anyway.)
06/23/2013
snowminx snowminx
Quote:
Originally posted by GonetoLovehoney
I doubt it'll ever work. There are too many people that need to be 'sorted out' and a skeleton crew that he'll have to pay overtime for in order to get through this in the '4 weeks' he states.

There are tons of ... More
Agreed, plus I love the addiction of "Abuse will include but not be limited to..." Basically just telling us he can just make up things on the spot to show us all as point farmers (which I'm pretty sure by now the the whole idea since then we won't even be able to use 15% of our points).

***Disclaimer- I, Snowminx, in no way made this post with the intentions of just getting points from it.***
06/23/2013
voenne voenne
I'm writing up a point reconsideration request, because I don't see there being any changes at this point. I'm upset that Fred said that a final decision would not be made without a consensus, but it seems he's taken that back, too. At this point, I don't want to risk not being able to use my points, so I'm writing a detailed claim. Trying to remain confident that I've done nothing wrong to be denied. Sigh.
06/23/2013
clp clp
I thought that thread could have been very productive. I wish there was more dialogue, as for the most part, all those asking questions were civil (if understandably upset).

I, myself, would like to know when the '15% points towards purchases' rule went into place. I've been trying to wade through all the point change threads and cannot find it yet.
I am counting the points I've earned as lost. 15% is absolutely not worth using. Its also news to me that Gary, Sammi, Carrie Ann and others have left, and that is truly heartbreaking. I suppose that also tells you just how often I come here to play.

In the interest of contributing to this thread, I'm trying to think of what I would consider fair. Unfortunately, I'm not coming up with anything. The strange changes to points a few months ago had already lost my support of EF. These new changes only further disappoint, cementing my resolve to find another sex toy site to call home.

What has been done to faithful contributors here is insulting. I will even call it thievery, as EF had offered monetary reward in exchange for contributors' time (recommendations, reviews, social networking, etc.,), only to snatch it back. That is low, low, low. I'm not sure how you can recover from that breach of trust, but I do hope you find it.

EF, I hope you resolve this fiasco fairly.
I feel so terribly for all the honest contributors that you've done wrong by. I can't help but feel relieved that I gave up on investing my time here before this event.
06/23/2013
snowminx snowminx
Quote:
Originally posted by clp
I thought that thread could have been very productive. I wish there was more dialogue, as for the most part, all those asking questions were civil (if understandably upset).

I, myself, would like to know when the '15% points towards ... More
Announcement where the staff where fired is here

The announcement about the 15% can be found....wait I think he deleted that now 0_o It used to be under "letters from the owner" but now it's not there unless he moved it (which I'm pretty sure he didn't) Last time I looked it was just closed but I guess even that wasn't good enough for him.

Anyways to sum up the 15% thing. As of June 19 our points that we have earned, and continue to earn, can only go to 15% of your purchase.

Ex. If your cart is totaling to $100 then you can only put up to $15 dollars worth of points to pay for it. The other 85% percent will come out of your pocket. They also mention that you can add on this 15% with sales and stuff but still, a slap to the face when many people have earned this through hours of writing reviews, articles, and editing.

We were given no warning about this, just one announcement one day that that it would be taking place immediately, without other means of compensation for our past work.
06/23/2013
js250 js250
I know for a fact that I did not participate in any point farming. If someone else feels like I did--that is fine. I know in my heart and with a clear conscience that it did not happen. I feel bad for those who did bank their points for a future purpose. You earned them and deserve to use them. As far as the future points--I know how it is so it will not bother me then.....

If I had over the state minimum points per dollar for a case in small claims court, then I would do this and cash out. NO POINTS!!! I would demand cash for compensation and for the previously accumulated points up to the 19th. My best friend was checking out the situation and since she is the county attorney and her husband was the state senator a few years ago--I do trust her advice--she said what he is doing is potentially opening himself up to a serious issue. (So much for her membership...damn it!! She loves the expensive stuff and can buy it too!! Would have been awesome affiliate commissions--and site earnings.)

HOWEVER--there is a potential remedy, so you can not have a legal purpose until you have been denied or accused. I do not want this to be misconstrued...but for those who are accused, there may be a remedy.
06/23/2013
LuckyLady LuckyLady
Heads up.....5. If your request will be denied and you will publicly accuse Company, Company reserves the rights to publicly disclose its findings, including your personal information, to substantiate its decision.
06/23/2013
No-nita No-nita
Quote:
Originally posted by js250
I know for a fact that I did not participate in any point farming. If someone else feels like I did--that is fine. I know in my heart and with a clear conscience that it did not happen. I feel bad for those who did bank their points for a future ... More
Thank you, this is useful information.

ETA: I'm curious about the time-frame for when our accounts will be evaluated... I might have glossed over it, but I don't remember anything saying "We'll get back to you within the week" etc
06/23/2013
snowminx snowminx
Quote:
Originally posted by js250
I know for a fact that I did not participate in any point farming. If someone else feels like I did--that is fine. I know in my heart and with a clear conscience that it did not happen. I feel bad for those who did bank their points for a future ... More
Just curious- do you know how much you would have to have to make it a small claims court case?

So we need to all go though it and be denied to have hope of ever getting our points back? I would think we lose our claim since it's basically like stating we didn't know any of the new terms and agreeing to them?

@lucky- I saw that too, can they really publicly disclose things they said they wouldn't share in the terms? Oh wait I forgot, they have gone back on everything else they have said on the terms so why not this?!
06/23/2013
LuckyLady LuckyLady
bump
06/23/2013
voenne voenne
Quote:
Originally posted by No-nita
Thank you, this is useful information.

ETA: I'm curious about the time-frame for when our accounts will be evaluated... I might have glossed over it, but I don't remember anything saying "We'll get back to you within the week" etc
It said within 4 weeks.
06/23/2013
snowminx snowminx
"This feature was disabled for your account by administrator"

I want to know why I couldn't reply on my own thread?!!!! What the heck stormy? I wasn't breaking any rules here.
06/23/2013
snowminx snowminx
Quote:
Originally posted by voenne
It said within 4 weeks.
That's what I was about to answer, but it also says that it can be extended for more questioning and stuff so who knows how long it could take.
06/23/2013
LuckyLady LuckyLady
Quote:
Originally posted by snowminx
Just curious- do you know how much you would have to have to make it a small claims court case?

So we need to all go though it and be denied to have hope of ever getting our points back? I would think we lose our claim since it's basically ... More
if we sign the contract I suppose their previous claims of personal information privacy would be null and void because we signed a new contract saying otherwise.
06/23/2013
LuckyLady LuckyLady
sneaky sneaky
06/23/2013
LoneOokami LoneOokami
On the 20th I turned all my points to giftcards should I still just say how many points I had prior to the 19th? Or should I use the gift card format instead? This damn thing is so confusing
06/23/2013
voenne voenne
Quote:
Originally posted by LoneOokami
On the 20th I turned all my points to giftcards should I still just say how many points I had prior to the 19th? Or should I use the gift card format instead? This damn thing is so confusing
I know, it is confusing. I had to go back and recalculate everything to what it was before 19th. The way he worded it was a little confusing. So yes, include what you had before converting to the gift cards on the 20th. That was my understanding.
06/23/2013
SMichelle SMichelle
I haven't read through this thread yet, but I am reading through the locked one now and I have so many comments...

The main one going through my head right now? The reviews for free promotional items, for instance...

MANY people wrote those reviews with the idea that they were "giving back" to EF. Not everyone wrote them for points. Sure, some did. Others, however, thought... Eden gave me something for free, and I want to review everything that I get from Eden as a way of giving back to the company. It's as simple as that.


Also, some thoughts on point farming, because this seems to be all the talk these days...
I have a feeling we're all going to be considered point farmers -- even those of us who contribute meaningful content. I write reviews which many people on here will agree are high quality. I contribute to discussions, and yeah, sometimes the games threads where we say what time it is. I comment on reviews and vote on them on a daily basis, because as a review writer, I know that it feels kinda shitty when no one comments on your reviews. I like items on Facebook daily -- but this promotes EF.

But, ah... calling people point farmers is silly, because you can't claim that people abuse the system if your system tells them how to do it, and ALLOWS them to do it.

Don't want people commenting or rating reviews just for points? Cool, make it so that they won't receive points for rating or commenting on reviews without having to wait 10-15 minutes between rating/commenting. Don't want people to be able to spam the community? Put that same limit in place. BUT if your system allows users to point farm... honey, they're not abusing the system, they're just doing what you let them. And who could blame them when the homepage used to advertise that people could get free toys? Who could blame them when it's all over the site that they can earn free shit with their points?

The issue here is not what the people did; it's what EF allowed them to do. Pretending otherwise is simply passing the blame, and frankly, being really naive and silly.
06/23/2013
LoneOokami LoneOokami
Quote:
Originally posted by voenne
I know, it is confusing. I had to go back and recalculate everything to what it was before 19th. The way he worded it was a little confusing. So yes, include what you had before converting to the gift cards on the 20th. That was my understanding.
The whole thing is worded atrociously, like everything is vague and subject to change. Guess I'll have to go do math and figure out what I had on the 19th, thanks.
06/23/2013
No-nita No-nita
Thanks for answering my questions on the time limit, guys - yeah, I definitely skimmed the terms on the form, not gonna lie. I just wanted to get to the point where I could fill my stuff out and get my form in ASAP for consideration.

Though it occurs to me now - there have been nights when I've made wishlists for OTHER PEOPLE, public ones, because I was helping them shop for toys... and definitely surpassed the limits on the nights that I was doing that. I also surpassed limits when making wishlists for mentors to send to admins for approval; both times I went back and said "Actually nvm, don't go to the trouble of trying to get me free stuff, I'll review what I have on hand." Then deleted the wishlists or moved some items I was genuinely interested onto new ones. Again, surprassing the point-earning limit. If that gets latched onto as "proof" of my "point farming" I swear to god.

I couldn't figure out the gift card / point thing on the form either. It was worded in a strange way. I just submitted a bunch of screenies of my point earning history so they could see and figure it out for themselves.
06/23/2013
js250 js250
Quote:
Originally posted by snowminx
Just curious- do you know how much you would have to have to make it a small claims court case?

So we need to all go though it and be denied to have hope of ever getting our points back? I would think we lose our claim since it's basically ... More
Document your points, etc.

It varies per state. My state is $150--but my hubby's home state was $300.
Check the local library--or call the city/justice court.
---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- ---------
AND, FYI--- To do this is a direct breach of their privacy policy and is a breach of contract on their end. It would garner some serious lawsuits and damages claims. If proven as a false accusation and your information was released, it could also be grounds for libel/defamation of character on top of compensatory damages for personal/professional actions as a result of the information being public and the remedy for breach of contract.

I am sure they meant that they would release your site name, email, state, and possibly any other non-damaging but site personal info. That way the other members would know who on the site made the infractions but their right to individual privacy is still protected as agreed upon in their legal privacy policy.
06/23/2013
KaraSutra KaraSutra
I've been around since 2007/2008 and have to say that the way things have been handled by upper management over the years is absolutely atrocious.

The correct, respectful, and responsible way to make changes to the system would have been to switch ALL points earned (as of the day of announcement - June 19th 12:01) to a gift card which could be used for 100% payment towards product(s). Then, any NEW points accumulated would be used for 15% towards a total purchase.

It would have been the honorable thing to do.

Not only would that have left contributors and community members feeling a bit more at ease, it might have allowed for a slight amount of faith in Eden Fantasys and everything it represented (or *used to* as the case may be). The way it has been handled is a complete disappointment, to those who built the community, shared in it over the years, worked hard for their points, drew business to the site, and continued to stick around after the shit hit the fan time and time again.

Now, to ask us to fight for our points (which were earned by A SYSTEM THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE VIA THOSE WITH THE CONTROL TO DO SO, not to mention MONITOR IT so that point farmer didn't happen), via a letter or proposal of sorts, which may be refused for reasons we don't even understand, is complete and utter nonsense.

While I wasn't here for the points, I can say I'm disgusted that I've been stripped of one thing I did enjoy about Eden: the ability to choose my own reward (via shopping with points) for the work I did.

Shame on you Fred, shame on you.
06/23/2013
Sara Logan Sara Logan
Funny how I got locked out right after you sent that js, I guess I was "point farming" for posting after my daily limit now. Who know, maybe I'll never get my points back because they have me on record for being locked even though I haven't had any posts flagged, point farming, or any other abuse in the system.

Guess they forgot I can log in with facebook also.

Sincerely,

PissedOffSnowminx
06/23/2013
GonetoLovehoney GonetoLovehoney
Quote:
Originally posted by KaraSutra
I've been around since 2007/2008 and have to say that the way things have been handled by upper management over the years is absolutely atrocious.

The correct, respectful, and responsible way to make changes to the system would have been ... More
That would have been an awesome way to handle it. No one would be ripped off and they'd have tons more people still around to spend real money on toys.
06/23/2013
js250 js250
Dang---for every person deleted/suspended it is going to seriously cost a ton of money and time to replace them as functioning members of the site....

Do you know how many of their competitors are laughing at this fiasco??? It is actually pretty sad--a top site a few months ago, but a sad comedy of errors now. What the hell are they thinking??!!

I don't know what to say--in all my experience and work I have never come across a situation this bad. The sad thing is they had all the help they needed or could ever want if they would have asked.....
06/23/2013
PeaceToTheMiddleEast PeaceToTheMiddleEast
I have just got done reading thru all this and that thread I came onto not too long ago. Seems like I missed a lot. Right now this is just crazy we have to sit here and prove we did not point farm, for activities given to us daily.

I was locked out my account once already as well. I am wondering if I will be able to get them back. The only reason I was locked out is because they told me I was clicking on stuff back to back. Which sometimes I admit I did but it was not meant to be in that way. I am a stay at home mom and I am on the computer all day long, sometimes I go thru things faster then the average person. I am a fast reader and a fast typer. I was told as long as I spaced out what I was doing it would not be considered point farming.

As far as reviews go, I have always done reviews on everything that I have got. Yes they did a point week and gave us double points, but that is not our fault that is your. I have got everything I own from this place, except maybe 2 things that I got from some where else and have reviewed on here. If that was a issue it should have been made only things from Eden should be reviewed. So yes when amenity week came along and it was posted if you got reviews that you are backed up on and wanted to get them done, it is a good time. Yes I did do the reviews I have. My reviews have always been well written since I had gone thru the Mentor program and was taught what to do. I also am a Mentor right now because of it.

As for doing anything else after my daily limit, since I am home all day long and on computer all day long, yes I am still doing activities even after. Something should be put into place so you guy's can see that not all of us get on here and then jump off here for the day. Shoot I follow a lot of people's reviews so after I get done with the 5 I am getting credit for I still have another 5 or so sitting in my inbox that I do not get points for but enjoy reading and voting on the. So don't tell me I am point farming. I even still read forum discussions after the limit as well, again I get bored easily so I am always on here doing stuff.

I think something else should have been done to remedy this, but it does not look like anyone wants to come to a agreement. If I loose out on mine, all I got to say it was nice to be a part of this site and it was nice to meet all the wonderful people I have met and get the lovely things I could never afford, but I am not going to sit here and be accused of not doing my part in contributing.
06/23/2013
bratcat bratcat
Quote:
Originally posted by PeaceToTheMiddleEast
I have just got done reading thru all this and that thread I came onto not too long ago. Seems like I missed a lot. Right now this is just crazy we have to sit here and prove we did not point farm, for activities given to us daily.

I was ... More
i agree. I tend to open multiple tabs at a time, exiting one before moving onto another. This usually causes me to go above and beyond my daily limit of points earned in discussions and polls. Though i have never been locked out of my account, i've gotten a pop up message telling me i was unable to procede earning points for my actions (rating products on the product page) because it seemed to be happening back to back; which it was, but it was entirely unintentional - like i stated i open multiple tabs at a time for the same site.
06/23/2013
PeaceToTheMiddleEast PeaceToTheMiddleEast
Quote:
Originally posted by bratcat
i agree. I tend to open multiple tabs at a time, exiting one before moving onto another. This usually causes me to go above and beyond my daily limit of points earned in discussions and polls. Though i have never been locked out of my account, ... More
I also have multiple tabs open. I will be in two or three tabs from just here, because doing something then loosing track of it gets on my nerves. Then I want to make sure I have not done something over again. On top of that I have two different browsers open for camming and other things I do as well. I am a big time multi tasker. I can multi task with the best of them.

When I got suspended it was only a example the person I was getting in contact with did not tell me exactly what it was for. I was never not allowed points for the month, nor did I ever have to admit to point farming because they did not really know for sure why I got suspended and I was just told to watch what I do on the site.
06/23/2013
geliebt geliebt
Quote:
Originally posted by bratcat
i agree. I tend to open multiple tabs at a time, exiting one before moving onto another. This usually causes me to go above and beyond my daily limit of points earned in discussions and polls. Though i have never been locked out of my account, ... More
Ditto on tabs. I always open TONS when doing anything on any website that's interesting, so I often have at least 5 open on Eden.
06/23/2013
Total posts: 69
Unique posters: 35