Childhood Corporal Punishment and Adulthood Sadomasochism: Is There a Link?

Yaoi Pervette (deleted) Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
I was reading this discussion, and it led me to read some of the sources that P'Gell posted. Reading Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children by Tom Johnson got me thinking about my own sadomasochistic tendencies and how they might relate to the fact that I was spanked a lot as a child. Do you believe there is a link as the author suggests?
Answers (private voting - your screen name will NOT appear in the results):
I was spanked as a kid, and I am submissive or masochistic.
18
I was spanked as a kid, and I am dominant or sadistic.
8
I was NOT spanked, and I am submissive or masochistic.
13
I was NOT spanked, and I am dominant or sadistic.
6
I believe there is a link between childhood spanking and sadomasochism.
5
I DON'T believe there is a link between childhood spanking and sadomasochism.
39
Don't know; don't care; llamas are the answer.
9
Total votes: 98 (62 voters)
Poll is closed
07/18/2012
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sexykiss sexykiss
i was never spanked as a kid
07/18/2012
amazon amazon
There's definitely a distinction between spanking and the type of corporal punishment that correlates to deviant behavior later in life.
07/18/2012
spineyogurt spineyogurt
Theres a big difference but it is linked I think
07/18/2012
- Kira - - Kira -
I was spanked, hit, and verbally abused as a child. I don't know how much that plays into my current kinks and truly I don't think about it too much. If I related what I like back to my asshole dad, it might ruin it for me. lol I know there are plenty of people on both the D and s or S and M side that have not been abused, so I think it brings all walks of life. Do those who have been spanked or abused tend to it more? Hard to say.

Also - "deviant behavior"? WTF?! Isn't that more used for actual illegal activity, not just being kinky?
07/18/2012
Yaoi Pervette (deleted) Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
Quote:
Originally posted by - Kira -
I was spanked, hit, and verbally abused as a child. I don't know how much that plays into my current kinks and truly I don't think about it too much. If I related what I like back to my asshole dad, it might ruin it for me. lol I know ... More
In sociology, deviance is anything that violates societal norms, so technically BDSM could be called deviant behavior. I get what you're saying though. To folks like us, BDSM really doesn't seem deviant at all.

I think the article I posted makes a compelling argument against spanking, but it doesn't provide much in the way of evidence to support the notion that spanking leads to adult sadomasochism. I'd love to see some actual statistics from an empirical study. I don't doubt that spanking can have negative effects though.

Even if spanking was proven to lead to sadomasochism, is that necessarily bad? As long as the person is involved in safe, sane, and consensual activity and is mentally sound otherwise, I fail to see a problem.
07/18/2012
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
I was reading this discussion, and it led me to read some of the sources that P'Gell posted. Reading Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children by Tom Johnson got me thinking about my own sadomasochistic tendencies and how they might relate to the fact ... More
It's all voodoo science as far as I am concerned. I know PLENTY of people who are way more hardcore into pain/pleasure stimulation than I am and they were never spanked as kids.

I know people who were beaten bloody who run screaming away from any form of sadism.

It's unproven and meant to shame parents and practitioners, neither of which deserve the shame.
07/18/2012
Taylor Taylor
I was not spanked as a child. I am submissive, but definitely not masochistic.
07/18/2012
Gettinmymojoback Gettinmymojoback
Quote:
Originally posted by Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
I was reading this discussion, and it led me to read some of the sources that P'Gell posted. Reading Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children by Tom Johnson got me thinking about my own sadomasochistic tendencies and how they might relate to the fact ... More
i was spanked as a child and have no issues. i enjoy variety in my sex life such as i dont mind being spanked, but i honestly dont think that being spanked as a kid had anything to do with either... i dont know, it may have affected others?
07/18/2012
KrissyNovacaine KrissyNovacaine
I was abused and am a switch. *shrugs*
07/18/2012
Yaoi Pervette (deleted) Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
Quote:
Originally posted by Airen Wolf
It's all voodoo science as far as I am concerned. I know PLENTY of people who are way more hardcore into pain/pleasure stimulation than I am and they were never spanked as kids.

I know people who were beaten bloody who run screaming away ... More
I see what you mean. There seems to be quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to support both sides of the argument. Another one of my reservations of the article I linked is that the author cited Freud as a source. I majored in psychology in college, and wouldn't hesitate to use the label "voodoo science" for his work due to its serious lack of empiricism. Freud based his conclusions on case studies, which are mostly anecdotal. I also think that if one looks hard enough for sexual perversion, one will find it, and that's exactly what Freud did...quite frequently.
07/18/2012
deltalima deltalima
Quote:
Originally posted by Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
I was reading this discussion, and it led me to read some of the sources that P'Gell posted. Reading Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children by Tom Johnson got me thinking about my own sadomasochistic tendencies and how they might relate to the fact ... More
There might be but I wouldn't say I am.
07/19/2012
Peggi Peggi
I was abused as a child, and my mom used to try and stop my dad from taking the belt to me, and she'd notice that rather than cry from it hurting she remembers I would try to grab it from him and just scream rather than cry. I have something called IED, which can cause uncontrollable violent tendencies...IF not controlled WHICH they very well are. My psychiatrist thinks that while it was genetic, it's possible that being hit as a child could've triggered it, because that was when the typical actions you see in someone with IED began.

I feel there IS a link, but I think there also needs to be something underlying in some cases. Either way, I think it can be traumatizing. Spanking when a child does something that warrants it is one thing in my opinion, but abuse is very dangerous.

My psychiatrist also felt that part of the reason I used to hurt and abuse myself was due to the abuse I went through as a child.

All I can say, glad I'm better now it just took a sweet, more dominant but patient and kind guy in my life to set me straight
07/19/2012
LavenderSkies LavenderSkies
Quote:
Originally posted by Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
I was reading this discussion, and it led me to read some of the sources that P'Gell posted. Reading Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children by Tom Johnson got me thinking about my own sadomasochistic tendencies and how they might relate to the fact ... More
I do NOT believe there's a link.
07/19/2012
Peggi Peggi
Quote:
Originally posted by Peggi
I was abused as a child, and my mom used to try and stop my dad from taking the belt to me, and she'd notice that rather than cry from it hurting she remembers I would try to grab it from him and just scream rather than cry. I have something ... More
I guess I should also clarify that the link doesn't necessarily mean that every individual shows signs the same way, but I think that for some that can be the cause.
07/19/2012
SecretToyMan SecretToyMan
Spanking is fine. Beating is not. I was spanked and it only made me a better child. Besting is not appropriate on the other hand.
07/19/2012
GONE! GONE!
I think there can be a link but as Peggi said I think it wouldn't be brought out unless there was an already underlying tendency and/or it can be a conscious way to deal with those feelings of helplessness in a positive, consensual way.
I definitely link my kink with what I suffered as a child BUT I was always into humiliation and being restrained consensually even as a child (I just knew it made me feel good. Didn't even link it with sex.), and I don't feel like I'm sexually broken or some crap like that. If anything being into kink has been healing since it lets me take back control and give up control consensually.

I am 100% against spanking of children though. It fucked me up emotionally, not sexually.
07/19/2012
solitudinarian solitudinarian
I was only spanked once or twice, so I put no. I was yelled at a lot, however. Some people's kinks seem to stem from abuse (though, I think a lot of the time people are just trying to find causal links wherever they can), but it is in no way a universal thing.

I won't spank my future kids. I can't help associating it with sex.
07/19/2012
unfulfilled unfulfilled
I was spanked a few times, but mom said I was so hardheaded that if I had my mind set to I was going to do it, then the spanking wouldn't have no effect.
07/19/2012
digit88 digit88
Quote:
Originally posted by Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
I was reading this discussion, and it led me to read some of the sources that P'Gell posted. Reading Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children by Tom Johnson got me thinking about my own sadomasochistic tendencies and how they might relate to the fact ... More
the answer is 42
07/19/2012
Yaoi Pervette (deleted) Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
Quote:
Originally posted by solitudinarian
I was only spanked once or twice, so I put no. I was yelled at a lot, however. Some people's kinks seem to stem from abuse (though, I think a lot of the time people are just trying to find causal links wherever they can), but it is in no way a ... More
I have considered the notion that I may be overanalyzing my own kinks a bit. I think it is just in my nature to seek out potential origins of behavior.

Spanking of children bothers me. I can't say if it had any long term negative effects on me. However, people used to comment on how well behaved my siblings and I were. If we were well behaved, it was out of fear of the consequences if we were not well behaved. My parents were scary when they were angry. I am not sure that using fear is a healthy way to instill good behavior. It is just as well I choose not to have children of my own. I don't have to worry about the proper way to discipline them.
07/19/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
I did post that link, and I believe most of it. I am capable of logical thought. I think rational, thinking people can tease out working parts of information from a mass of dialogue.

I refuse to knee jerk and use rationalization to protect my own poor behaviors in the past. I don't believe simply because I once did something (the few times my children were hit) means I have to protect those poor choices for the rest of my life. I was wrong for EVER hitting my kids. PERIOD.

Is there a link between enjoying BDSM and childhood spanking? I can't say. Most likely not. I think it's OK to post a good piece of argument where most of the information is valuable, like this piece. I don't believe it causes shame at all. Why would it? It would only be "shameful" if you KNEW you were wrong.

As for those who believe this is shame. What about all the other peer reviewed articles that prove damage to children with proven statistical significance? I posted at least 15 out of more than 80 pieces of published, proven articles and studies. Is science to be ignored in the face of our wanting to keep our face?

I have NO shame for engaging in Rough Play, and yes I was hit as a child. Do I think the two are linked? I'm not sure. It certainly isn't the ONLY reason I like such play. Did it cause arousal as a child? Yes. I can't deny that. But, a lot of people who were hit as children never develop a taste for BDSM. I think a lot of desire for impact or rough play is hard wired.

However, the rest of the article is quite compelling. I DO feel shame for hitting my kids the few times it happened and I feel my response is appropriate for the circumstances, as I was NOT behaving as an adult at those moments, but dwelling into the deepest depths of rage and displaced anger and even revenge. Those should never be vented onto a child, I take full responsibility for the few times I lost control of myself and I feel fully and rightfully shameful for doing such a thing to innocent children.
07/19/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by amazon
There's definitely a distinction between spanking and the type of corporal punishment that correlates to deviant behavior later in life.
Could you elucidate exactly what that distinction is?

Nobody seem to be able to. The studies seem to prove poor outcomes for children who were hit (I'm not referring to BDSM here, but to depression, anger issues, substance abuse etc)

Where is the distinction? Pounds per square inch of hitting? The number of smacks? NOBODY seems to be able to say who does such things.

Yet the research shows ALL hitting is damaging.

I don't understand WHY there is such a controversy about these things.
07/19/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
I see what you mean. There seems to be quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to support both sides of the argument. Another one of my reservations of the article I linked is that the author cited Freud as a source. I majored in psychology in college, ... More
Please refer to the other 15 articles I posted that DO have recent links and publication dates. Such as the one that proved children who are hit have less grey matter and lower IQs.

Thank you.

No Freud is NOT a reputable source. He didn't DO research. He thought his "thoughts" were enough proof.

But, there are more recent studies (this article was not a study but an overview of the literature. There is a huge difference when one is looking for reference material.
07/19/2012
XYCopperheadSly XYCopperheadSly
Quote:
Originally posted by unfulfilled
I was spanked a few times, but mom said I was so hardheaded that if I had my mind set to I was going to do it, then the spanking wouldn't have no effect.
I was the same way, exept I was spanked ALL THE TIME and it did nothing for my behavior....when I started getting exiled to my room was when I started behaving...
07/19/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
But, there are more recent studies (this article you are referring to was not a study but an overview of and interpretation of the literature. There is a huge difference when one is looking for reference material.

Research gives us facts. Overviews interpret those facts. One needs to be able to do both, and know when to accept FACT but sometimes look at other people's interpretations with an educated mind and eye.

Copperhead, what you and others describe is SOOO typical. Kids at first, respond to being hit. Then, they realize it is bullshit and continue to do the behaviors. Some parents respond by hitting harder and more frequently (with disastrous results) others do what your parents did, realize their error and change their strategy.

Then behavior changes for the better in the child.

Several of the other studies I quoted in the other thread make it clear, hitting doesn't result in lasting behavior changes for the better. It may and usually DOES stop a child dead in their tracks, but it doesn't teach them HOW to behave, and the effects of pain are not long lasting on the behaviors they were meant to change. However, the effects of pain and humiliation that being subjected to corporal punishment brings does have a lasting effect on many children into adulthood. THAT was the point of most of the articles I quoted.
07/19/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Peggi
I was abused as a child, and my mom used to try and stop my dad from taking the belt to me, and she'd notice that rather than cry from it hurting she remembers I would try to grab it from him and just scream rather than cry. I have something ... More
I'm so sorry this happened to you as a child. You must have felt very alone and sad.

I don't know if BDSM is related to hurting children, but self damage IS. It's basically Universal in those who self harm. The thing is, unlike you, some children repress being hit as a child and then think there is no link between self harm and the humiliation and harm they received as children.

I'm so glad you were able to get help and start to heal. So many refuse to do so. And so many still protect their abusers. Many more imitate those who harmed them as children and then rationalize their behavior and their parents poor behaviors. So sad.

I'm glad you are healing.
07/19/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by SecretToyMan
Spanking is fine. Beating is not. I was spanked and it only made me a better child. Besting is not appropriate on the other hand.
Please tell me where the line is between "hitting" and "beating."

In 12 years on the internet talking about this issue, and well over 20 years talking to people, even those in academia about this issue no one who believes it's OK to hit seems to be able to give me a consistent line between "spanking" and "abuse." Of course, those who don't think hitting children is a good idea at ALL are of the mind that ALL hitting is abusive in some form or an other.

If you have the magical line of exactly the difference between hitting and "beating" please enlighten all of us. Please be specific.

Thank you. I am anxiously awaiting your answer.
07/19/2012
Yaoi Pervette (deleted) Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
Please refer to the other 15 articles I posted that DO have recent links and publication dates. Such as the one that proved children who are hit have less grey matter and lower IQs.

Thank you.

No Freud is NOT a reputable source. He ... More
I don't doubt that spanking has harmful effects. However, I was contemplating the link between spanking and adult kink. I was aware that the article was not a study. Without a study, the link between spanking and kink is open to speculation.

I have no issue with the author's other points. In fact, I think the article brings up some interesting points regarding the double standard people apply to spanking the buttocks versus fondling the buttocks.
07/19/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Yaoi Pervette (deleted)
I don't doubt that spanking has harmful effects. However, I was contemplating the link between spanking and adult kink. I was aware that the article was not a study. Without a study, the link between spanking and kink is open to speculation. ... More
I appreciate your clarifying that. Thank you.

I don't know if there is a link to adult kink. I know it was taught that it was when I was at University, but I don't always believe everything I am taught. (Never stopped me from doing what I think feels good, either.)

I don't know if there are any actual studies on BDSM and childhood hitting. I haven't found any.

It's odd how few studies there are on sex, not to mention even fewer on variables of sexual activity.
07/19/2012
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