I'm just curious how many people here consider themselves feminists. Sex positivity is typically a part of feminism and since this site sells sex toys I would guess that many people do consider themselves sex positive. But then there's the anti-porn feminists out there too (which I'm not). Then there's the negative connotation that some people have with the word "feminist" that keeps people from calling themselves one.
Do you consider yourself a feminist?
My stance on this is really hard to explain. If I explain my views, some might think that they are the same as a feminist and that I am one. However, its the way that I wish to present them that is different in my opinion. I don't need a name. It's not because of negative connotation. I don't want to be seen as a strong woman who can do things that some men think I can't. I want to be seen as a strong able PERSON. Which, some might say is in line with feminists views. To me, feminists like to put out that they are females...obviously- and look what I can do as a female. Which is great, but I don't feel that it is necessary to even mention that I am female when I talk about what I am proud of or what I have achieved. I'm a person, and this is what I have become, and I have done. Being a female isn't the only thing I have to overcome in modern society. There are no many other dynamics-none more important than any other.
I have never really put any of that into words until now. I'm not sure if it makes sense, or if it will be offensive to anyone. I apologize if it does. Hell, I might not even like it when I come back to reread it later lol.
I have never really put any of that into words until now. I'm not sure if it makes sense, or if it will be offensive to anyone. I apologize if it does. Hell, I might not even like it when I come back to reread it later lol.
10/17/2010
Quote:
I think I know what you're saying completely. It's like this - why emphasis the gender/sex of an individual if our goal is to break down the gender/sex stereotypes of personality, behaviors, and capabilities? So in that, I completely agree. I may be female, but I'm a person first.
Originally posted by
~LaUr3n~
My stance on this is really hard to explain. If I explain my views, some might think that they are the same as a feminist and that I am one. However, its the way that I wish to present them that is different in my opinion. I don't need a name.
...
My stance on this is really hard to explain. If I explain my views, some might think that they are the same as a feminist and that I am one. However, its the way that I wish to present them that is different in my opinion. I don't need a name. It's not because of negative connotation. I don't want to be seen as a strong woman who can do things that some men think I can't. I want to be seen as a strong able PERSON. Which, some might say is in line with feminists views. To me, feminists like to put out that they are females...obviously- and look what I can do as a female. Which is great, but I don't feel that it is necessary to even mention that I am female when I talk about what I am proud of or what I have achieved. I'm a person, and this is what I have become, and I have done. Being a female isn't the only thing I have to overcome in modern society. There are no many other dynamics-none more important than any other.
I have never really put any of that into words until now. I'm not sure if it makes sense, or if it will be offensive to anyone. I apologize if it does. Hell, I might not even like it when I come back to reread it later lol.
I have never really put any of that into words until now. I'm not sure if it makes sense, or if it will be offensive to anyone. I apologize if it does. Hell, I might not even like it when I come back to reread it later lol.
But I still consider myself a feminist because, unfortunately, our society will never, ever be gender neutral and just consider everyone a "person first". So I find it important to point out female discrimination and empowerment since that's what has to change... for now.
10/17/2010
Quote:
The paradox here is that some might even find your views make you more of a feminist.
Originally posted by
~LaUr3n~
My stance on this is really hard to explain. If I explain my views, some might think that they are the same as a feminist and that I am one. However, its the way that I wish to present them that is different in my opinion. I don't need a name.
...
My stance on this is really hard to explain. If I explain my views, some might think that they are the same as a feminist and that I am one. However, its the way that I wish to present them that is different in my opinion. I don't need a name. It's not because of negative connotation. I don't want to be seen as a strong woman who can do things that some men think I can't. I want to be seen as a strong able PERSON. Which, some might say is in line with feminists views. To me, feminists like to put out that they are females...obviously- and look what I can do as a female. Which is great, but I don't feel that it is necessary to even mention that I am female when I talk about what I am proud of or what I have achieved. I'm a person, and this is what I have become, and I have done. Being a female isn't the only thing I have to overcome in modern society. There are no many other dynamics-none more important than any other.
I have never really put any of that into words until now. I'm not sure if it makes sense, or if it will be offensive to anyone. I apologize if it does. Hell, I might not even like it when I come back to reread it later lol.
I have never really put any of that into words until now. I'm not sure if it makes sense, or if it will be offensive to anyone. I apologize if it does. Hell, I might not even like it when I come back to reread it later lol.
But, really, you do make sense. Accomplishments shouldn't have to come with a gender attached to them to make someone seem like they accomplished more. But like Darling Jen said, sadly society won't see things that way any time soon, if ever.
10/17/2010
Quote:
I find it funny (in a sad way) how people who consider themselves feminists and want to get rid of these gender stereotypes and roles have such an issue with people doing what they enjoy in the bedroom.
Originally posted by
Naughty Student
There are many kinds of feminism and every person can make it fit their own beliefs. I think that I am feminist, I believe in equal right, equal pay as men. I also am kinky so I am ok with domination which not all hard core feminists like.
I'm the same way, I want my equality in society but once I'm behind closed doors with someone I know and trust then please break me down and say things and do things I would never accept anywhere else.
10/17/2010
Yes, I'm definitely a feminist. I believe that we should judge people by who they are not what's between their legs. I also think that sex positivism and feminism work very well together. We can never have a healthy world if people are forced to deny that they have sexual desires. Repression just leads to anger and people treating one another badly.
I definitely support pornography, though I don't always like how the industry treats performers and I find the percentage of sex workers who are survivors of some form of sexual abuse a bit... worrisome sometimes. I don't think that these are inherent problems with pornographic images, but more problems from the sexually repressed society these images have sprung from. I'm a sex worker myself (a professional dominatrix) and I definitely love my work.
I think the idea that a woman is selling herself when she sells sex, sexuality, or sexiness is actually quite misogynistic, as it seems to say that a woman is nothing but her sexuality. A plumber isn't "selling himself" when he fixes your pipes, because we know that he's more than just someone who fixes pipes.
I support a society without specified gender roles, not because I think women should never be housewives and men never firefighters (or whatever) but that if a woman wants to be a firefighter or a man a househusband they shouldn't be told they can't simply because of their gender.
I definitely support pornography, though I don't always like how the industry treats performers and I find the percentage of sex workers who are survivors of some form of sexual abuse a bit... worrisome sometimes. I don't think that these are inherent problems with pornographic images, but more problems from the sexually repressed society these images have sprung from. I'm a sex worker myself (a professional dominatrix) and I definitely love my work.
I think the idea that a woman is selling herself when she sells sex, sexuality, or sexiness is actually quite misogynistic, as it seems to say that a woman is nothing but her sexuality. A plumber isn't "selling himself" when he fixes your pipes, because we know that he's more than just someone who fixes pipes.
I support a society without specified gender roles, not because I think women should never be housewives and men never firefighters (or whatever) but that if a woman wants to be a firefighter or a man a househusband they shouldn't be told they can't simply because of their gender.
10/17/2010
Quote:
Awesomely spoken. I toast you.
Originally posted by
Madeira
Yes, I'm definitely a feminist. I believe that we should judge people by who they are not what's between their legs. I also think that sex positivism and feminism work very well together. We can never have a healthy world if people are
...
Yes, I'm definitely a feminist. I believe that we should judge people by who they are not what's between their legs. I also think that sex positivism and feminism work very well together. We can never have a healthy world if people are forced to deny that they have sexual desires. Repression just leads to anger and people treating one another badly.
I definitely support pornography, though I don't always like how the industry treats performers and I find the percentage of sex workers who are survivors of some form of sexual abuse a bit... worrisome sometimes. I don't think that these are inherent problems with pornographic images, but more problems from the sexually repressed society these images have sprung from. I'm a sex worker myself (a professional dominatrix) and I definitely love my work.
I think the idea that a woman is selling herself when she sells sex, sexuality, or sexiness is actually quite misogynistic, as it seems to say that a woman is nothing but her sexuality. A plumber isn't "selling himself" when he fixes your pipes, because we know that he's more than just someone who fixes pipes.
I support a society without specified gender roles, not because I think women should never be housewives and men never firefighters (or whatever) but that if a woman wants to be a firefighter or a man a househusband they shouldn't be told they can't simply because of their gender.
I definitely support pornography, though I don't always like how the industry treats performers and I find the percentage of sex workers who are survivors of some form of sexual abuse a bit... worrisome sometimes. I don't think that these are inherent problems with pornographic images, but more problems from the sexually repressed society these images have sprung from. I'm a sex worker myself (a professional dominatrix) and I definitely love my work.
I think the idea that a woman is selling herself when she sells sex, sexuality, or sexiness is actually quite misogynistic, as it seems to say that a woman is nothing but her sexuality. A plumber isn't "selling himself" when he fixes your pipes, because we know that he's more than just someone who fixes pipes.
I support a society without specified gender roles, not because I think women should never be housewives and men never firefighters (or whatever) but that if a woman wants to be a firefighter or a man a househusband they shouldn't be told they can't simply because of their gender.
10/17/2010
Quote:
LOL awesome! I am glad it was understood by someone. "I may be female, but I am a person first." That is a great way to put it.
Originally posted by
Darling Jen
I think I know what you're saying completely. It's like this - why emphasis the gender/sex of an individual if our goal is to break down the gender/sex stereotypes of personality, behaviors, and capabilities? So in that, I completely agree. I
...
I think I know what you're saying completely. It's like this - why emphasis the gender/sex of an individual if our goal is to break down the gender/sex stereotypes of personality, behaviors, and capabilities? So in that, I completely agree. I may be female, but I'm a person first.
But I still consider myself a feminist because, unfortunately, our society will never, ever be gender neutral and just consider everyone a "person first". So I find it important to point out female discrimination and empowerment since that's what has to change... for now.
But I still consider myself a feminist because, unfortunately, our society will never, ever be gender neutral and just consider everyone a "person first". So I find it important to point out female discrimination and empowerment since that's what has to change... for now.
I also agree it is important to point out discrimination.
10/18/2010
Quote:
Yea I figured lol. That's why I said that.
Originally posted by
Kim!
The paradox here is that some might even find your views make you more of a feminist.
But, really, you do make sense. Accomplishments shouldn't have to come with a gender attached to them to make someone seem like they accomplished more. ...
But, really, you do make sense. Accomplishments shouldn't have to come with a gender attached to them to make someone seem like they accomplished more. ...
The paradox here is that some might even find your views make you more of a feminist.
But, really, you do make sense. Accomplishments shouldn't have to come with a gender attached to them to make someone seem like they accomplished more. But like Darling Jen said, sadly society won't see things that way any time soon, if ever.
But, really, you do make sense. Accomplishments shouldn't have to come with a gender attached to them to make someone seem like they accomplished more. But like Darling Jen said, sadly society won't see things that way any time soon, if ever.
10/18/2010
I used to really consider myself a feminist, based solely on the fact that I think women need to have equal pay rates and should have total control over their bodies, including reproductive rights.
There is a blog I read religiously called Jezebel, which is basically a feminist blog. I've noticed several posts about, well, femi-nazi type things that just bother me and make me literally scream WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU BITCHES?
I remember one particular article criticizing Christopher Nolan (the director of the new Batman films, Inception and Memento) of being misogynist. They claimed he "fridged" ALL female characters. "Fridging" just basically means that he kills all female characters in his movies. A lot of posters and the staff rallied behind the cry of WOMAN-HATING ASSHOLE and deemed him anti-woman as well as anti-feminist. That bothered me deeply. I've met Mr. Nolan and he is, in a word, perfection. His wife is a bigger woman, gorgeous, and they have a nice family. He talks about her and treats her with kindness and he is so polite and he smells nice. I mean...ok, I sound psychotic, I realize, but...where was I?
To suggest, even remotely, that this person, based on fictitious movies he has directed and written, hates women, bothered me and really stuck in my craw. Actually, I forgot to mention the fact that the theory is baseless and untrue. Very untrue. Stupid, even.
When I read something that pisses me off so deeply like that, and it seems like the feminists are really suggesting "BURN HIM!" for something so trivial, it makes me not like feminists in general and I just want to stay away from them. I don't want women barefoot and pregnant, but when feminists attack stay at home mothers and tell them they are holding back ALL women...well, isn't that a lot like, I don't know...It's insane.
That being said, I support women's rights. I can't stand anti-choice people forcing their morals on women who should, ya know, be in charge of their own fucking uteruses (uteri?). I dislike the word "feminist" itself.
By the way, I sincerely apologize if I've offended anyone. I know that sometimes my caustic phrasing can rub people the wrong way, and I truly harbor no ill will toward feminists, because I know yous chicks are fucking awesome, every one of you.
There is a blog I read religiously called Jezebel, which is basically a feminist blog. I've noticed several posts about, well, femi-nazi type things that just bother me and make me literally scream WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU BITCHES?
I remember one particular article criticizing Christopher Nolan (the director of the new Batman films, Inception and Memento) of being misogynist. They claimed he "fridged" ALL female characters. "Fridging" just basically means that he kills all female characters in his movies. A lot of posters and the staff rallied behind the cry of WOMAN-HATING ASSHOLE and deemed him anti-woman as well as anti-feminist. That bothered me deeply. I've met Mr. Nolan and he is, in a word, perfection. His wife is a bigger woman, gorgeous, and they have a nice family. He talks about her and treats her with kindness and he is so polite and he smells nice. I mean...ok, I sound psychotic, I realize, but...where was I?
To suggest, even remotely, that this person, based on fictitious movies he has directed and written, hates women, bothered me and really stuck in my craw. Actually, I forgot to mention the fact that the theory is baseless and untrue. Very untrue. Stupid, even.
When I read something that pisses me off so deeply like that, and it seems like the feminists are really suggesting "BURN HIM!" for something so trivial, it makes me not like feminists in general and I just want to stay away from them. I don't want women barefoot and pregnant, but when feminists attack stay at home mothers and tell them they are holding back ALL women...well, isn't that a lot like, I don't know...It's insane.
That being said, I support women's rights. I can't stand anti-choice people forcing their morals on women who should, ya know, be in charge of their own fucking uteruses (uteri?). I dislike the word "feminist" itself.
By the way, I sincerely apologize if I've offended anyone. I know that sometimes my caustic phrasing can rub people the wrong way, and I truly harbor no ill will toward feminists, because I know yous chicks are fucking awesome, every one of you.
10/18/2010
By the way, read Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy. I know I've whored out this book before, but it's a new look at the "new" feminist culture, like why women think that going on Girls Gone Wild is feminist, and why they are getting breast implants to empower themselves. It's an interesting read.
10/18/2010
Quote:
Hm, that is an interesting point. Sometimes even the people in the right can make a wrong assumption or go a little nutty. But it's understandable, at least to me, to lose your composure every once in a while in the face of stubborn ignorance.
Originally posted by
Blinker
I used to really consider myself a feminist, based solely on the fact that I think women need to have equal pay rates and should have total control over their bodies, including reproductive rights.
There is a blog I read religiously called ...
There is a blog I read religiously called ...
I used to really consider myself a feminist, based solely on the fact that I think women need to have equal pay rates and should have total control over their bodies, including reproductive rights.
There is a blog I read religiously called Jezebel, which is basically a feminist blog. I've noticed several posts about, well, femi-nazi type things that just bother me and make me literally scream WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU BITCHES?
I remember one particular article criticizing Christopher Nolan (the director of the new Batman films, Inception and Memento) of being misogynist. They claimed he "fridged" ALL female characters. "Fridging" just basically means that he kills all female characters in his movies. A lot of posters and the staff rallied behind the cry of WOMAN-HATING ASSHOLE and deemed him anti-woman as well as anti-feminist. That bothered me deeply. I've met Mr. Nolan and he is, in a word, perfection. His wife is a bigger woman, gorgeous, and they have a nice family. He talks about her and treats her with kindness and he is so polite and he smells nice. I mean...ok, I sound psychotic, I realize, but...where was I?
To suggest, even remotely, that this person, based on fictitious movies he has directed and written, hates women, bothered me and really stuck in my craw. Actually, I forgot to mention the fact that the theory is baseless and untrue. Very untrue. Stupid, even.
When I read something that pisses me off so deeply like that, and it seems like the feminists are really suggesting "BURN HIM!" for something so trivial, it makes me not like feminists in general and I just want to stay away from them. I don't want women barefoot and pregnant, but when feminists attack stay at home mothers and tell them they are holding back ALL women...well, isn't that a lot like, I don't know...It's insane.
That being said, I support women's rights. I can't stand anti-choice people forcing their morals on women who should, ya know, be in charge of their own fucking uteruses (uteri?). I dislike the word "feminist" itself.
By the way, I sincerely apologize if I've offended anyone. I know that sometimes my caustic phrasing can rub people the wrong way, and I truly harbor no ill will toward feminists, because I know yous chicks are fucking awesome, every one of you.
There is a blog I read religiously called Jezebel, which is basically a feminist blog. I've noticed several posts about, well, femi-nazi type things that just bother me and make me literally scream WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU BITCHES?
I remember one particular article criticizing Christopher Nolan (the director of the new Batman films, Inception and Memento) of being misogynist. They claimed he "fridged" ALL female characters. "Fridging" just basically means that he kills all female characters in his movies. A lot of posters and the staff rallied behind the cry of WOMAN-HATING ASSHOLE and deemed him anti-woman as well as anti-feminist. That bothered me deeply. I've met Mr. Nolan and he is, in a word, perfection. His wife is a bigger woman, gorgeous, and they have a nice family. He talks about her and treats her with kindness and he is so polite and he smells nice. I mean...ok, I sound psychotic, I realize, but...where was I?
To suggest, even remotely, that this person, based on fictitious movies he has directed and written, hates women, bothered me and really stuck in my craw. Actually, I forgot to mention the fact that the theory is baseless and untrue. Very untrue. Stupid, even.
When I read something that pisses me off so deeply like that, and it seems like the feminists are really suggesting "BURN HIM!" for something so trivial, it makes me not like feminists in general and I just want to stay away from them. I don't want women barefoot and pregnant, but when feminists attack stay at home mothers and tell them they are holding back ALL women...well, isn't that a lot like, I don't know...It's insane.
That being said, I support women's rights. I can't stand anti-choice people forcing their morals on women who should, ya know, be in charge of their own fucking uteruses (uteri?). I dislike the word "feminist" itself.
By the way, I sincerely apologize if I've offended anyone. I know that sometimes my caustic phrasing can rub people the wrong way, and I truly harbor no ill will toward feminists, because I know yous chicks are fucking awesome, every one of you.
Feminist film theory suggests that in main stream Hollywood movies, every strong female character has to be domesticated (she's "tamed" by becoming a girlfriend, wife, homemaker, gives up what made her "tough", etc.) or killed. I've spent many semesters in college trying to find main stream movies that go against feminist film theory... And I never have been able to. The only ones I found were independent movies, gay/lesbian movies, or unrelated foreign documentaries. It's quite depressing to see culture affect cinema in this way. Or rather, depressing to see culture this way through the eyes of cinema.
And if we're sharing our pet-peeves, mine is to see women be anti-choice and then get all tongue-tied trying to tell me: "Well, there are exceptions, of course... But in general, it's wrong!"
"So then, you ARE pro-choice?"
"Oh hell no!"
*sigh*
10/18/2010
Quote:
You worded this quite wonderfully, thank you. I really like your plumber example, I've been looking for a good way to put my thoughts into words and this definitely did it!
Originally posted by
Madeira
Yes, I'm definitely a feminist. I believe that we should judge people by who they are not what's between their legs. I also think that sex positivism and feminism work very well together. We can never have a healthy world if people are
...
Yes, I'm definitely a feminist. I believe that we should judge people by who they are not what's between their legs. I also think that sex positivism and feminism work very well together. We can never have a healthy world if people are forced to deny that they have sexual desires. Repression just leads to anger and people treating one another badly.
I definitely support pornography, though I don't always like how the industry treats performers and I find the percentage of sex workers who are survivors of some form of sexual abuse a bit... worrisome sometimes. I don't think that these are inherent problems with pornographic images, but more problems from the sexually repressed society these images have sprung from. I'm a sex worker myself (a professional dominatrix) and I definitely love my work.
I think the idea that a woman is selling herself when she sells sex, sexuality, or sexiness is actually quite misogynistic, as it seems to say that a woman is nothing but her sexuality. A plumber isn't "selling himself" when he fixes your pipes, because we know that he's more than just someone who fixes pipes.
I support a society without specified gender roles, not because I think women should never be housewives and men never firefighters (or whatever) but that if a woman wants to be a firefighter or a man a househusband they shouldn't be told they can't simply because of their gender.
I definitely support pornography, though I don't always like how the industry treats performers and I find the percentage of sex workers who are survivors of some form of sexual abuse a bit... worrisome sometimes. I don't think that these are inherent problems with pornographic images, but more problems from the sexually repressed society these images have sprung from. I'm a sex worker myself (a professional dominatrix) and I definitely love my work.
I think the idea that a woman is selling herself when she sells sex, sexuality, or sexiness is actually quite misogynistic, as it seems to say that a woman is nothing but her sexuality. A plumber isn't "selling himself" when he fixes your pipes, because we know that he's more than just someone who fixes pipes.
I support a society without specified gender roles, not because I think women should never be housewives and men never firefighters (or whatever) but that if a woman wants to be a firefighter or a man a househusband they shouldn't be told they can't simply because of their gender.
10/18/2010
Quote:
I've been meaning to read that, I think I didn't get around to it yet because at the time I was reading a lot on my Kindle and it's more expensive on the Kindle than buying the actual paperback book. (I know, lame reason, but I have a list of things to read!) I think that I'll just say screw it and order the paperback.
Originally posted by
Blinker
By the way, read Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy. I know I've whored out this book before, but it's a new look at the "new" feminist culture, like why women think that going on Girls Gone Wild is feminist, and why they are
...
By the way, read Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy. I know I've whored out this book before, but it's a new look at the "new" feminist culture, like why women think that going on Girls Gone Wild is feminist, and why they are getting breast implants to empower themselves. It's an interesting read.
As for your other post, I've read Jezebel on occasion too and a few other feminist blogs and sometimes I'm also left staring at the screen wondering how people could think that way. I do dislike the views of the extremists, and like nearly every other "group" in society they're the most visible so they give the representation that people tend to see. I don't feel that it was anti-feminist for me to have my son, it was what felt right to me at that particular time in my life but I know that some militant feminists out there might end up arguing with me on that one.
10/18/2010
Quote:
I honestly don't think a woman can do everything a man can...likewise I don't think a man can do everything any woman can. I think each PERSON is capable of doing amazing things and I think a person's abilities should be evaluated case by case and not based on their gender.
Originally posted by
Kim!
I'm just curious how many people here consider themselves feminists. Sex positivity is typically a part of feminism and since this site sells sex toys I would guess that many people do consider themselves sex positive. But then there's the
...
I'm just curious how many people here consider themselves feminists. Sex positivity is typically a part of feminism and since this site sells sex toys I would guess that many people do consider themselves sex positive. But then there's the anti-porn feminists out there too (which I'm not). Then there's the negative connotation that some people have with the word "feminist" that keeps people from calling themselves one.
10/18/2010
You might say we live in a 'post feminist' world - or at least we should.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college enrollment at 50-50, it's gone from 60-40 to 40-60 - in other words the pendulum has swung too far.
Young women, and women with female children don't see the damage done to boys by a single minded focus on females. Many boys are uncertain and vulnerable like their female counterparts - it's time for true equality, not more favoritism.
My wife didn't get this until we had a son. When she witnessed all the preferences given to the girls - she was stunned to see the lack of interest and opportunities for boys.
In today's society it's illegal to discriminate against women - but it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against boys and men.
I know this is a mostly female site - I'd be interested to hear if any of the women out there have sons - and what their experience has been.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college enrollment at 50-50, it's gone from 60-40 to 40-60 - in other words the pendulum has swung too far.
Young women, and women with female children don't see the damage done to boys by a single minded focus on females. Many boys are uncertain and vulnerable like their female counterparts - it's time for true equality, not more favoritism.
My wife didn't get this until we had a son. When she witnessed all the preferences given to the girls - she was stunned to see the lack of interest and opportunities for boys.
In today's society it's illegal to discriminate against women - but it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against boys and men.
I know this is a mostly female site - I'd be interested to hear if any of the women out there have sons - and what their experience has been.
10/19/2010
Quote:
My own son is still rather young to see any potential differences (he'll be 5 in December). I'll be watching to see how much that happens.
Originally posted by
Gunsmoke
You might say we live in a 'post feminist' world - or at least we should.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college ...
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college ...
You might say we live in a 'post feminist' world - or at least we should.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college enrollment at 50-50, it's gone from 60-40 to 40-60 - in other words the pendulum has swung too far.
Young women, and women with female children don't see the damage done to boys by a single minded focus on females. Many boys are uncertain and vulnerable like their female counterparts - it's time for true equality, not more favoritism.
My wife didn't get this until we had a son. When she witnessed all the preferences given to the girls - she was stunned to see the lack of interest and opportunities for boys.
In today's society it's illegal to discriminate against women - but it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against boys and men.
I know this is a mostly female site - I'd be interested to hear if any of the women out there have sons - and what their experience has been.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college enrollment at 50-50, it's gone from 60-40 to 40-60 - in other words the pendulum has swung too far.
Young women, and women with female children don't see the damage done to boys by a single minded focus on females. Many boys are uncertain and vulnerable like their female counterparts - it's time for true equality, not more favoritism.
My wife didn't get this until we had a son. When she witnessed all the preferences given to the girls - she was stunned to see the lack of interest and opportunities for boys.
In today's society it's illegal to discriminate against women - but it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against boys and men.
I know this is a mostly female site - I'd be interested to hear if any of the women out there have sons - and what their experience has been.
I'm curious as to what that reverse in college enrollment is caused by. Is it the higher number of scholarships for females only (which I do find unfair)? Is it the way that society has spent all of these years telling little girls that they can do this and that and pushing them to achieve while not building up boys in the same way? Or something entirely different?
10/19/2010
Quote:
There has been a whole generation of adulating females. On average boys mature more slowly than girls, this tends to mean that their grades trend a little lower and impacts both their admissions to colleges and their ability to stay in.
Originally posted by
Kim!
My own son is still rather young to see any potential differences (he'll be 5 in December). I'll be watching to see how much that happens.
I'm curious as to what that reverse in college enrollment is caused by. Is it the higher ...
I'm curious as to what that reverse in college enrollment is caused by. Is it the higher ...
My own son is still rather young to see any potential differences (he'll be 5 in December). I'll be watching to see how much that happens.
I'm curious as to what that reverse in college enrollment is caused by. Is it the higher number of scholarships for females only (which I do find unfair)? Is it the way that society has spent all of these years telling little girls that they can do this and that and pushing them to achieve while not building up boys in the same way? Or something entirely different?
I'm curious as to what that reverse in college enrollment is caused by. Is it the higher number of scholarships for females only (which I do find unfair)? Is it the way that society has spent all of these years telling little girls that they can do this and that and pushing them to achieve while not building up boys in the same way? Or something entirely different?
Luckily my son figured out the need to buckle down late in his junior year (HS), in time to get his grades up enough to get into college - but not one of his choice. Same thing happened to my daughter's boy friend.
My daughter isn't smarter than my son or her boy friend - but her grades were better because she figured out things 12-18 months before the boys.
Everyone's stories vary - I'm starting to see articles where education leaders are taking note of the differential - and trying to do something about it. Hopefully your son will benefit - but don't wait for the experts - take a proactive roll in helping him adapt and understand 'the way of the world'.
good luck.
10/19/2010
Quote:
What you said just reminded of something a long time ago. My mom brought me to a place to sign up for some summers courses but I couldn't take most of them because they were for the girls.
Originally posted by
Gunsmoke
You might say we live in a 'post feminist' world - or at least we should.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college ...
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college ...
You might say we live in a 'post feminist' world - or at least we should.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college enrollment at 50-50, it's gone from 60-40 to 40-60 - in other words the pendulum has swung too far.
Young women, and women with female children don't see the damage done to boys by a single minded focus on females. Many boys are uncertain and vulnerable like their female counterparts - it's time for true equality, not more favoritism.
My wife didn't get this until we had a son. When she witnessed all the preferences given to the girls - she was stunned to see the lack of interest and opportunities for boys.
In today's society it's illegal to discriminate against women - but it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against boys and men.
I know this is a mostly female site - I'd be interested to hear if any of the women out there have sons - and what their experience has been.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college enrollment at 50-50, it's gone from 60-40 to 40-60 - in other words the pendulum has swung too far.
Young women, and women with female children don't see the damage done to boys by a single minded focus on females. Many boys are uncertain and vulnerable like their female counterparts - it's time for true equality, not more favoritism.
My wife didn't get this until we had a son. When she witnessed all the preferences given to the girls - she was stunned to see the lack of interest and opportunities for boys.
In today's society it's illegal to discriminate against women - but it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against boys and men.
I know this is a mostly female site - I'd be interested to hear if any of the women out there have sons - and what their experience has been.
10/19/2010
Quote:
I am with you on this one!! Plus I was raised by all men no mom, so not sure how well my opinion counts. My father and brothers raised me to believe I was equally to them which we all know it not true. But I do force this on every man woman I can.
Originally posted by
Chilipepper
I'm Me, with a code of ethics that says everyone is treated equally, no matter race, gender, religious, orientation, ethnicity, WHATEVER else is labeled.
10/19/2010
Quote:
I know that since you see some preference given to others over your child that something definitely must be happening, but the national worry over more girls being enrolled in college than boys has really bothered me. This isn't any expense to males in our society at all.
Originally posted by
Gunsmoke
You might say we live in a 'post feminist' world - or at least we should.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college ...
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college ...
You might say we live in a 'post feminist' world - or at least we should.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college enrollment at 50-50, it's gone from 60-40 to 40-60 - in other words the pendulum has swung too far.
Young women, and women with female children don't see the damage done to boys by a single minded focus on females. Many boys are uncertain and vulnerable like their female counterparts - it's time for true equality, not more favoritism.
My wife didn't get this until we had a son. When she witnessed all the preferences given to the girls - she was stunned to see the lack of interest and opportunities for boys.
In today's society it's illegal to discriminate against women - but it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against boys and men.
I know this is a mostly female site - I'd be interested to hear if any of the women out there have sons - and what their experience has been.
It should be more about equality of opportunity. In the past 20 years we've exalted girls at the expense of the boys - now instead of having college enrollment at 50-50, it's gone from 60-40 to 40-60 - in other words the pendulum has swung too far.
Young women, and women with female children don't see the damage done to boys by a single minded focus on females. Many boys are uncertain and vulnerable like their female counterparts - it's time for true equality, not more favoritism.
My wife didn't get this until we had a son. When she witnessed all the preferences given to the girls - she was stunned to see the lack of interest and opportunities for boys.
In today's society it's illegal to discriminate against women - but it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against boys and men.
I know this is a mostly female site - I'd be interested to hear if any of the women out there have sons - and what their experience has been.
In fact, the population of males to females is not actually 50-50. There are more females than males naturally. (Other than China, of course... but different reason all together there.) So to see more women in college than men is just fine cause it's still about equal to population size.
Also, there are still more men going on to higher degrees (professional degress like JD, MD, and general master's and PhD programs) than women, who tend to get only associate's or bachelor's degrees. So not even their college education is yet equal. Men are becoming lawyers and women paralegals in very wide and obvious number gaps. Men to doctors and women to registered nurses. You get the point.
Plus, for the men who don't go into college, the still have a better statistical chance of getting a skilled labor job over women. Skilled trades without college degrees are still very much dominated by men and women instead are left with being homemakers or cashiers.
And really, even a decent percentage of the women getting degrees are really just going to college for their "MRS degree" as the saying goes. I don't remember the exact percentage anymore but it's a really large amount of women who get degrees only to not use it at all in order to be the homemaker to a family.
We are slowly starting to see more emphasis being put on women in the educational sphere but we are no where near equal yet. Women who are in the exact same field with the exact same qualifications as their male counterparts are still making 75cents to the dollar men make. That's more than it sounds. A man could make $40,000 a year and a comparable woman would make $30,000. That's enough difference in one year to nearly pay for a new car.
10/20/2010
Quote:
I agree, although I do think there are a few things that need to be done to equalize the freedoms of men and women in society, I do think that men should be allowed greater freedom in dress and appearence (it's okay for women to wear pants, but not for boys to wear skirts, not cool) and a few other minor things like that, but yes.
Originally posted by
Darling Jen
I know that since you see some preference given to others over your child that something definitely must be happening, but the national worry over more girls being enrolled in college than boys has really bothered me. This isn't any expense to
...
I know that since you see some preference given to others over your child that something definitely must be happening, but the national worry over more girls being enrolled in college than boys has really bothered me. This isn't any expense to males in our society at all.
In fact, the population of males to females is not actually 50-50. There are more females than males naturally. (Other than China, of course... but different reason all together there.) So to see more women in college than men is just fine cause it's still about equal to population size.
Also, there are still more men going on to higher degrees (professional degress like JD, MD, and general master's and PhD programs) than women, who tend to get only associate's or bachelor's degrees. So not even their college education is yet equal. Men are becoming lawyers and women paralegals in very wide and obvious number gaps. Men to doctors and women to registered nurses. You get the point.
Plus, for the men who don't go into college, the still have a better statistical chance of getting a skilled labor job over women. Skilled trades without college degrees are still very much dominated by men and women instead are left with being homemakers or cashiers.
And really, even a decent percentage of the women getting degrees are really just going to college for their "MRS degree" as the saying goes. I don't remember the exact percentage anymore but it's a really large amount of women who get degrees only to not use it at all in order to be the homemaker to a family.
We are slowly starting to see more emphasis being put on women in the educational sphere but we are no where near equal yet. Women who are in the exact same field with the exact same qualifications as their male counterparts are still making 75cents to the dollar men make. That's more than it sounds. A man could make $40,000 a year and a comparable woman would make $30,000. That's enough difference in one year to nearly pay for a new car.
In fact, the population of males to females is not actually 50-50. There are more females than males naturally. (Other than China, of course... but different reason all together there.) So to see more women in college than men is just fine cause it's still about equal to population size.
Also, there are still more men going on to higher degrees (professional degress like JD, MD, and general master's and PhD programs) than women, who tend to get only associate's or bachelor's degrees. So not even their college education is yet equal. Men are becoming lawyers and women paralegals in very wide and obvious number gaps. Men to doctors and women to registered nurses. You get the point.
Plus, for the men who don't go into college, the still have a better statistical chance of getting a skilled labor job over women. Skilled trades without college degrees are still very much dominated by men and women instead are left with being homemakers or cashiers.
And really, even a decent percentage of the women getting degrees are really just going to college for their "MRS degree" as the saying goes. I don't remember the exact percentage anymore but it's a really large amount of women who get degrees only to not use it at all in order to be the homemaker to a family.
We are slowly starting to see more emphasis being put on women in the educational sphere but we are no where near equal yet. Women who are in the exact same field with the exact same qualifications as their male counterparts are still making 75cents to the dollar men make. That's more than it sounds. A man could make $40,000 a year and a comparable woman would make $30,000. That's enough difference in one year to nearly pay for a new car.
10/20/2010
Quote:
I agree!!!
Originally posted by
Madeira
I agree, although I do think there are a few things that need to be done to equalize the freedoms of men and women in society, I do think that men should be allowed greater freedom in dress and appearence (it's okay for women to wear pants, but
...
I agree, although I do think there are a few things that need to be done to equalize the freedoms of men and women in society, I do think that men should be allowed greater freedom in dress and appearence (it's okay for women to wear pants, but not for boys to wear skirts, not cool) and a few other minor things like that, but yes.
I went to this very little, "classically educated" school. It was public but was a voluntary school. Uniforms, no sports, etc. Anywho, this kid (male) was brave enough to wear a floor-length tasteful black skirt to school that was well within dress code. I thought it was awesome, personally. But the administration threw a HUGE hissy fit about it. But technically there was nothing in the dress code that disallowed him to wear skirts. He was covered, modest, and wearing proper attire with his shirt all tucked in and a belt and all that. But they just hated him breaking gender norms and actually changed the dress code to take away boys' rights to wear skirts from then on. I was so disappointed and angry, though I lacked the proper terminology at the time.
10/20/2010
Quote:
If you had a son you'd understand the point. It's still true that there are dozens of affirmative action programs for women. For example my son is on a college rowing team - they get no funding from the university. The women's team is funded 100% - is that fair?
Originally posted by
Darling Jen
I know that since you see some preference given to others over your child that something definitely must be happening, but the national worry over more girls being enrolled in college than boys has really bothered me. This isn't any expense to
...
I know that since you see some preference given to others over your child that something definitely must be happening, but the national worry over more girls being enrolled in college than boys has really bothered me. This isn't any expense to males in our society at all.
In fact, the population of males to females is not actually 50-50. There are more females than males naturally. (Other than China, of course... but different reason all together there.) So to see more women in college than men is just fine cause it's still about equal to population size.
Also, there are still more men going on to higher degrees (professional degress like JD, MD, and general master's and PhD programs) than women, who tend to get only associate's or bachelor's degrees. So not even their college education is yet equal. Men are becoming lawyers and women paralegals in very wide and obvious number gaps. Men to doctors and women to registered nurses. You get the point.
Plus, for the men who don't go into college, the still have a better statistical chance of getting a skilled labor job over women. Skilled trades without college degrees are still very much dominated by men and women instead are left with being homemakers or cashiers.
And really, even a decent percentage of the women getting degrees are really just going to college for their "MRS degree" as the saying goes. I don't remember the exact percentage anymore but it's a really large amount of women who get degrees only to not use it at all in order to be the homemaker to a family.
We are slowly starting to see more emphasis being put on women in the educational sphere but we are no where near equal yet. Women who are in the exact same field with the exact same qualifications as their male counterparts are still making 75cents to the dollar men make. That's more than it sounds. A man could make $40,000 a year and a comparable woman would make $30,000. That's enough difference in one year to nearly pay for a new car.
In fact, the population of males to females is not actually 50-50. There are more females than males naturally. (Other than China, of course... but different reason all together there.) So to see more women in college than men is just fine cause it's still about equal to population size.
Also, there are still more men going on to higher degrees (professional degress like JD, MD, and general master's and PhD programs) than women, who tend to get only associate's or bachelor's degrees. So not even their college education is yet equal. Men are becoming lawyers and women paralegals in very wide and obvious number gaps. Men to doctors and women to registered nurses. You get the point.
Plus, for the men who don't go into college, the still have a better statistical chance of getting a skilled labor job over women. Skilled trades without college degrees are still very much dominated by men and women instead are left with being homemakers or cashiers.
And really, even a decent percentage of the women getting degrees are really just going to college for their "MRS degree" as the saying goes. I don't remember the exact percentage anymore but it's a really large amount of women who get degrees only to not use it at all in order to be the homemaker to a family.
We are slowly starting to see more emphasis being put on women in the educational sphere but we are no where near equal yet. Women who are in the exact same field with the exact same qualifications as their male counterparts are still making 75cents to the dollar men make. That's more than it sounds. A man could make $40,000 a year and a comparable woman would make $30,000. That's enough difference in one year to nearly pay for a new car.
10/20/2010
Quote:
On the surface it definitely seems peculiar. But I'm sure there's more underneath to explain the discrepancies. I was in college too and there were dozens of black affirmative programs but I didn't feel like it hurt me at all for them to be there.
Originally posted by
Gunsmoke
If you had a son you'd understand the point. It's still true that there are dozens of affirmative action programs for women. For example my son is on a college rowing team - they get no funding from the university. The women's team is
...
If you had a son you'd understand the point. It's still true that there are dozens of affirmative action programs for women. For example my son is on a college rowing team - they get no funding from the university. The women's team is funded 100% - is that fair?
10/20/2010
Quote:
You're just rationalizing - there is nothing that will demonstrate for you that gender-based preferences are unfair. Oh yea - raise that guy's taxes - just don't raise mine - I know the drill.
Originally posted by
Darling Jen
On the surface it definitely seems peculiar. But I'm sure there's more underneath to explain the discrepancies. I was in college too and there were dozens of black affirmative programs but I didn't feel like it hurt me at all for them to be there.
10/20/2010