When does kink cross the line into abuse?

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When does kink cross the line into abuse?

Pixel Pixel
I recently found out a former partner of mine told his pet that he was 'going to punish her for trying to leave him', after she broke up/got back together with him. To me, that crosses icky lines and borders on Stockholm Syndrome/sociopathic behaviour.

Where is your line?
04/16/2013
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BloodHound BloodHound
Quote:
Originally posted by Pixel
I recently found out a former partner of mine told his pet that he was 'going to punish her for trying to leave him', after she broke up/got back together with him. To me, that crosses icky lines and borders on Stockholm Syndrome/sociopathic ...
I agree. While many people enjoy D/s or M/s dynamics a dynamic that is rooted in abuse and resulting from Stockholm Syndrome is no different from a serial kidnapper. This should be a big red for anyone out there.
04/16/2013
bratcat bratcat
That is a little disturbing, and i would hope that she would have talked to him if this was something she was not okay with, however depend on their sub/dom relationship and this may have added to their sex life.
For me crossing the line is when consent is boken, and then becomes rape/abuse regardless if it is violent or not. My partner is amazing at checking in with me, even if we're getting a little heated and moving into some BDSM practices, they will make sure to ask if i am okay when he notices a change in my body language. I've had other partners that did not do such, and when i no longer wanted to have sex with them because i felt uncomfortable (voicing this as well as showing it with my body), they physically restrained me from doing so - and this was before i started to practice any sort of lite BDSM play in the bedroom. That to be was abusive behavior as i was in the middle of a manic episode when it happened and it then became a full blown panic attack.
So for me abuse in the bedroom tends to occur when things start to borderline rape and feelings are not taken into account.
04/16/2013
Pixel Pixel
Quote:
Originally posted by bratcat
That is a little disturbing, and i would hope that she would have talked to him if this was something she was not okay with, however depend on their sub/dom relationship and this may have added to their sex life.
For me crossing the line is when ...
This was not a consensual beating. It was a 'I am going to beat you until you are too scared to leave me again' beating.
04/16/2013
Gary Gary
I agree with Pixel. The line in every situation is consent.
04/16/2013
bratcat bratcat
Quote:
Originally posted by Pixel
This was not a consensual beating. It was a 'I am going to beat you until you are too scared to leave me again' beating.
Well then yes, that for sure is crossing the line and agree with BloodHound when they say "a dynamic that is rooted in abuse and resulting from Stockholm Syndrome is no different from a serial kidnapper." I was hoping this was something that was discussed between the two after he made that statement letting them know it was not an okay thing to have suggested, but to take action without consent is not acceptable and is 100% abuse.
04/16/2013
travelnurse travelnurse
Oh now that is quiet scary. I have issue with beatings and such and don't think that I could deal with it.
04/16/2013
charletnarouh charletnarouh
Anything non-consensual is abusive. Anything that does not involve the /s partner being fully risk aware and absolutely consenting is wrong. Also, anything involving the Top not being fully educated, knowledgable, risk aware and safe about what they are doing is at least ignorantly neglectful and possibly abusive. After a relationship that has been broken has been repaired a punishment session or a re-establishing dominance type session wouldn't be out of the question and might help to repair rifts and rebalance the relationship but if it's done against the /s's consent then it's not ok. Period. The problem is that, as outsiders, we can't tell where that line is for anyone else. The only person who can say whether what this D/ was abusive is the pet in question. If he held her against her will, beat her and ignored her safeword or signal, then, personally, i'd consider that abusive, but it's really up to her and there's a certain level of personal responsibility on her part. Of course, i understand the mentality of the abuse victim and standing up for yourself isn't always possible. It's how abuse works and why the victims stay, but unfortunately, only the victim can break the cycle. If, for instance, she didn't use her safeword, didn't object, and went along with what he did, and he didn't break any of her negotiated limits, we might look at what he did and judge that it was wrong in our opinions, or that it would be wrong if we were the pet, but without her objection it's not for us to say that this was wrong for them if, in the context of their relationship, he didn't break the rules. Unfortunately, we play with fire in the D/s world and it's easy for things to get blurry. But it's also important to remember that this world is also a world of illusion that we weave and sometimes that can obscure reality to the observer. I'm not defending this D/, but i don't have enough info to know for certain whether this was a case of abuse or whether this is merely something that looks sketchy or questionable but between the two adults involved was acceptable to them at the time. Also, it's important to remember that hindsight is always 20/20. i've consented to things i never should have but at the time i DID consent. my Domme at the time did things that i have since learned would be considered by many to be wrong and they ultimately were hurtful (emotionally, not physical harm) to me, but i consented. She had culpability for her actions but i also had responsibility. i could have revoked my consent, i could have objected, i could have used my safeword. i never did. So, although i do hold her accountable for the things she did irresponsibly, i also recognize that i consented and that what she did, however poorly, was not rape or kidnapping or anything like that. i can't look back on that, knowing now how badly she was handling things, and entirely condemn her for it because i gave consent at the time. i can't retroactively revoke my consent. i can say she's someone i would never play with again, i can say that i wouldn't recommend anyone else play with her. But she did not do anything to me against my will or consent.
04/16/2013
indiglo indiglo
Agreed - anything that crosses the line of mutual consent is no longer play, but has then become abuse. I hope she gets out of there safely, and I am glad to read that this was a FORMER partner of yours. That does not sound like the kind of person who should be doing BDSM play.
04/16/2013
ShadowedSeductress ShadowedSeductress
I agree with the others, it becomes abuse once it's no longer consensual.
04/16/2013
Love Bites Love Bites
Quote:
Originally posted by Pixel
I recently found out a former partner of mine told his pet that he was 'going to punish her for trying to leave him', after she broke up/got back together with him. To me, that crosses icky lines and borders on Stockholm Syndrome/sociopathic ...
The line is really open from person to person. For me, the line is when my partner does something I do not consent to (we talk excessively on what we want, what we are ok with, what we would be open to trying).
04/16/2013
Sir Sir
It doesn't cross the line if there's consent.

What an odd question.

No amount of heaviness in play or level of protocol in power exchange is telling of abuse. All partners involved, as long as they are consenting to the situation, are not crossing lines of abuse.
04/27/2013
kendra30752 kendra30752
Quote:
Originally posted by Pixel
I recently found out a former partner of mine told his pet that he was 'going to punish her for trying to leave him', after she broke up/got back together with him. To me, that crosses icky lines and borders on Stockholm Syndrome/sociopathic ...
This is a really good question, that I do not have the answer for. I only know what I personally would feel crossed over into abuse. Everyone is different. For instance, if I were hit by my partner, I would definitely call that abuse, even if it was in the bedroom, but some people actually consent to slapping and other hitting. I don't think there's many who enjoy being flat out bunched or truly beaten up, but I do think there is a really wide... what word am I looking for here? A very... big.. Okay, it varies greatly from person to person. That. I can't talk. Lol. What I'm saying is there are so many different opinions on what does and doesn't cross over into abuse that I guess it's a matter of personal idea for everyone. IMO, doing anything to a person that they did not want done sums it up pretty nicely.

Sounds like a really crappy situation. That would scare me if someone said they would punish me for trying to leave them. But I don't know that person. Maybe it's something normal for them and doesn't actually mean they'll do that? Then again, when do we voice something so big that has no real meaning? It's clearly crossed their minds.

To you, you say that crosses the line. I can understand that. It would absolutely cross the line of total creepiness for me to & for me personally, that would scare me away for good. In any case, it's better to err on the side of safety to some extent than not.
04/27/2013
tami tami
Quote:
Originally posted by Pixel
I recently found out a former partner of mine told his pet that he was 'going to punish her for trying to leave him', after she broke up/got back together with him. To me, that crosses icky lines and borders on Stockholm Syndrome/sociopathic ...
that is creepy to me "his pet is going to be punished?" but then again she went back even though she new what he was like so my answer is I would not deal with any behavior like this
04/27/2013
Woman China Woman China
Anything that is not consent to me is considered abuse. I am finding it hard to explain "negative intimidation" here... But some types of intimidation I am fine with, but intimidation that would frighten me to do something I am not comfortable with or literally frightens me to change my mind would be a form of abuse. In the case you mentioned, if my partner and I broke it off, then got back together, if he said it jokingly and I knew he didn't mean it mean it, but meant it more like "oh tonight we are going to play and really play hard" I would be ok with it. But if I felt that he actually meant it, I would leave his sorry ass.

I kind of think abuse is also a personal thing when it comes to BDSM and varies couple to couple. I know a man who was into punishing his wife for burning some parts of the dinner... to me that is abuse... to them? That was part of the fun of their relationship.
04/27/2013
bayosgirl bayosgirl
Anything that is not consented to.
04/28/2013
gorgeous gorgeous
It depends on the persons and what they agree to, anything that one does not consent to would be defined as abuse to me.
04/29/2013
SaucyxGirl SaucyxGirl
Quote:
Originally posted by Pixel
This was not a consensual beating. It was a 'I am going to beat you until you are too scared to leave me again' beating.
If the activities were done against the will of the sub then it is abuse in my opinion.
04/30/2013
charletnarouh charletnarouh
Quote:
Originally posted by Woman China
Anything that is not consent to me is considered abuse. I am finding it hard to explain "negative intimidation" here... But some types of intimidation I am fine with, but intimidation that would frighten me to do something I am not ...
Exactly!
04/30/2013
surreptitious surreptitious
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
It doesn't cross the line if there's consent.

What an odd question.

No amount of heaviness in play or level of protocol in power exchange is telling of abuse. All partners involved, as long as they are consenting to the ...
I completely disagree with this. While I absolutely agree that anything done without consent is abusive, I don't think that necessarily just because someone says "yes, do it," it should be done. I mean, if someone gives consent to be butchered like a pig and eaten, does that really not cross the line for you?

Having studied paraphilia from a psychological standpoint, there are cases when someone is mentally ill and the consent that they give should not be taken at face value. If someone is telling their Dom (or, quite frankly, anyone) to put their health or life at serious risk or to leave permanent damage, it should seriously be considered whether this person is of sound enough mind to give consent in the first place. That being said, there may also be cases where consent is given without a person fully understanding exactly what it means. I'm interested to know if you think that people of all ages should be able to give consent as well - after all, an 8 year old could just as easily give consent as an 18 year old.

On top of that, consent achieved through coercion or under false pretense should also not be considered consent. Lying to someone or manipulating them into doing something that they otherwise wouldn't, especially when you are in a role of power in their life, is absolutely abuse in my books. In the same way that failing to disclose that you have AIDS to a partner with whom you engage in intercourse is murder, tricking someone into giving their consent can just as easily be rape or assault. On top of which, consent can be withdrawn at any time, and though you don't explicitly say anything about that, I just want to include it because I think that it's an important thing to consider.
04/30/2013
chicagobearsfan chicagobearsfan
It sounds like she did not consent to this. If the purpose was to actually make her afraid, it sounds like abuse to me. S&M is supposed to be enjoyed, or at least enthusiastically consented to, by BOTH partners. Beating to make her actually scared is frightening, and, I would say, certainly abusive.
05/09/2013
bellaapple23 bellaapple23
For me, it becomes abuse when it's no longer consensual. Subs say they like being controlled, but ultimately they have the most control in the relationship because they say are the ones who say "Yes, I'm going to allow you to control me". In one of my relationships, I was okay with him spanking me, pulling, my hair, and being generally mean in the bedroom because that's what I wanted and enjoyed. So, that was okay. However, he pinched my maliciously one day out of anger outside of the bedroom, and that relationship was over within a couple weeks. I think that the sub has to go with his or her gut feeling. If it feels wrong to you then it's abuse.
09/26/2013
Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by surreptitious
I completely disagree with this. While I absolutely agree that anything done without consent is abusive, I don't think that necessarily just because someone says "yes, do it," it should be done. I mean, if someone gives consent to be ...
Coercion isn't consent, and I didn't say that it was.

Yes, those things are acceptable if people consent to them. It isn't my business what others enjoy or take pleasure in. Some people are into extreme play, and while it may not be your cup of tea, it is theirs. To you it may seem like a problem of mental health - to them, they're being fulfilled.

And I do believe that people under the age of majority are able to give consent. That doesn't mean that people who are of age of majority should act on their consent due to laws surrounding that.

Your judgment of other people's lifestyles is disturbing.
10/24/2013
Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by bellaapple23
For me, it becomes abuse when it's no longer consensual. Subs say they like being controlled, but ultimately they have the most control in the relationship because they say are the ones who say "Yes, I'm going to allow you to control ...
To say that submissives have "the most" control is a fallacy.

The entire point of being submissive is the act of giving over control.
10/24/2013
Total posts: 24
Unique posters: 19