#EdenUpdate - Expectations of Conduct

Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
I usually do use pics from other sites for the "Eden should carry" threads; BUT many other sites (where else do you get the pictures of new toys? New toys are not all over where you can find pics, unless you go to an other site) have water ... More
That river named website has their own way of preventing hot-linking, which is essentially what you're doing if you copy the image location instead of saving it and uploading it to a third party host and then posting it here. They have a search and destroy team for bloggers to prevent the same thing.
04/02/2012
Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
"When investigating EdenPoint abuse, we consider all activity, not just occasional out of place actions. If you are doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. If you have any questions, you can always contact us. " - ... More
I understand that EF considers all activity, but the community is not necessarily privy to that information. I agree that a lot of the point farming is fairly obvious, but not all. Some activity, at least to me, falls into a grey zone. That's why I think if the Forum Moderator steps in and posts a response on a thread pointing out the EOC, the entire community will learn what EF considers to be inappropriate. Unless this process is made more public, some people will continue this behavior because they don't understand it is unacceptable. M point is, you reach more contributors with the message when it's displayed publicly versus private messages each time there is a violation.
04/02/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
It's unclear to me exactly how this is to be handled. For example, in my recent experience where someone obviously used a secondary account to down vote 20 of my reviews, what would happen under the new EOC? Do you plan to determine the IP ... More
These cases are tricky to handle and involve a variety of investigation tactics. The best thing that anyone can do in a case of suspicious activity is to contact us, and let us know. This helps us to connect the dots.
04/02/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
Lastly, would it be possible to create a convenient "Contact Forum Moderator" button so it's easier to notify the appropriate person rather than having to look up the account? Maybe under the "Expert Help" tab so it's available on any page visited?
I like this suggestion!
04/02/2012
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I understand that EF considers all activity, but the community is not necessarily privy to that information. I agree that a lot of the point farming is fairly obvious, but not all. Some activity, at least to me, falls into a grey zone. That's ... More
There will be comments from the Forum Moderator, but disciplinary actions taken against contributors will not be made public.
04/02/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Silverdrop
I don't think two or more accounts on the same IP should be an instaban offense - there are too many legitimate ways multiple people might share a computer or an internet connection. But each case should be investigated, I believe. If UserA and ... More
If we must block an IP because of abusive activities, it is unfortunate if there is a legitimate circumstance. We do consider each case on an individual basis, but our best advice to these people is to not commit acts of abuse. No abuse = no problems.
04/02/2012
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
What about links to manufacturer web sites? I don't think I've done it before but clarification would be helpful. Also, maybe EF should start the thread each month stating that links to other web sites is not acceptable and images are preferred?
You can link to manufacturer sites. If you are unsure, ask!
04/02/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Petite Valentine
Banning IPs just doesn't work when there are multiple users utilizing the same wireless connection. Flatmates and spouses are the least of it; what about college dorms, libraries and other public access spots? Retaliatory downvoting and other ... More
A community thread directed towards our product manager - that suggests products EF should carry, and a public product review directed towards EF customers... are very very different situations.
04/02/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Silverdrop
I have a question about 'links to competitors'. What about when someone says in a review that a product is available cheaper at Amazon or Walmart or some other location, but doesn't link to it? Is that against the rules?

And should ... More
That does not violate any rules, but it is kind of bad etiquette. It would be like me coming to your house for dinner, and complaining about how everyone else made better meatloaf than you.

Every retailer runs sales and promotions. So at any given time the price on any one product might be better. Overall I feel that EF has good prices, and I am sure that most of you do as well since you are hanging out here.
04/02/2012
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I understand that EF considers all activity, but the community is not necessarily privy to that information. I agree that a lot of the point farming is fairly obvious, but not all. Some activity, at least to me, falls into a grey zone. That's ... More
I agree. When people see specific activities pointed out as being violations in real time, it is much more successful than more private, covert methods.

People who really don't know the way Eden works may not realize they are in violation, BUT if they see a reminder ON a thread, where someone is doing something they may have thought of doing, they will probably NOT engage in the activity and the behavior is cut off in the bud. Private messaging won't have that strong, forum wide effect.

That's just how human psychology works. You see someone being called on the carpet (even if it's done in a kind way) you SEE the actual behavior LIVE and will be less likely to do it yourself. Private warnings may in the end be more "quiet" but they only reach ONE person at a time.
04/02/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Adriana Ravenlust
I was thinking we could use a few more options for the flag button. Maybe a "this thread is a dupe of a recent thread" option with a field to add URL or maybe even one for this 24-hour rule? The having to email someone is kind of counter productive..
The duplicate threads are tricky, a lot new people start these before they know whats going on. And since we can't combine threads its a bit of a gray area. The 24 hour rule - it does require the mod or admin, to close the thread. I do see there being contributors mods down the road (I hope we can work this into our community as it grows - however there is currently no forum plan).
04/02/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
When you sort the forum by "time started," you can easily see the contributors who create 5 new threads sequentially. Not coincidentally, they are almost always 3 discussions, 1 poll, and 1 comparative, the daily limits for receiving ... More
That is how I look at the forum primarily.
04/02/2012
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Adriana Ravenlust
Bottom line: how much shit am I going to get in if I start messaging these people and telling them they're being obnoxious?
You should contact us, or the forum moderator. We will investigate, contact, issue explanations, warnings, and disciplinary actions.
04/02/2012
Femme Mystique Femme Mystique
I love all these new changes. I joined EF several years ago when it was a lot smaller, with only a handful of reviewers and when reviews were still picked out and assigned by the administrator. Now that this has become such a huge community, it's great to see that rules are being put in place to ensure that the community remains positive and productive.
04/02/2012
Silverdrop Silverdrop
Thanks for jumping in and addressing all the stuff we brought up over the weekend.
04/02/2012
Badass Badass
It is indeed awesome Eden has shifted the rules and their heart is in a good place trying to weed out good NEW topics and NEW questions, but sadly there has been no change.

But has anyone read the forum lately... it's kind of the same as it was...

Has anyone tried this? That? This?
YES, 99.9% of the time SOMEONE HAS, READ THEIR REVIEW.
If you've thought of a crazy new technique for a toy, yes do share this with us, but when there is already reviews, please stop asking on the forums how it was!!

Maybe what needs to happen is the Forum Moderator should drop them a line saying "Hey, read the reviews or send a letter to who wrote the review before posting on the forum."

When I was first on here, I know I did the same thing, asking questions that were already answered in a review some where... That is part of why I have stayed kind of sullen on this, because I know as a noob I was guilty of this.. But if someone would have wrote me and explained, I definitely would have figured out to check out the reviews first.

The only other thing I can think of is simply to post the URL's to the people's posts and tell them hey, read a review first.
Or simply boycott those posts.

I don't want to sound mean to sound mean, and I know Eden is trying.. but come on..
I wouldn't even mind if they were talking about some new interesting and crazy to get their points for each thing(the 1 poll, 1 compare, X many discussions). But the people we are talking about here are using things that have either been reviewed, already talked about, or just stupid things that scream "I am just trying to make my points".

Personally, point farming doesn't effect me, it's sad for Eden because they are trying to do something so freaking nice for us, but I LOVE LOVE LOVE the forum. Someone always posts something interesting(Like when "alice" got that IUD without taking the loosen up your vadge pills, I was freaking captivated!, or the girl who posted on my endo & kids post, YAY! there IS hope for me) but it kind of takes the fun out of it when you see 5 consecutive posts(repeatedly by diff people, 5 from person x, 5 from person y, 4 from person z) about random toys(with reviews) repeatedly.

I think the Eden hierarchy should send nice messages to the people doing that explaining why it's wrong.. many may just be newbies..

I know I sound like I'm ranting, but I swear, I'm using my indoor nice as pie voice. Sorry so long...
04/02/2012
- Kira - - Kira -
Quote:
Originally posted by Badass
It is indeed awesome Eden has shifted the rules and their heart is in a good place trying to weed out good NEW topics and NEW questions, but sadly there has been no change.

But has anyone read the forum lately... it's kind of the same as ... More
So...I've been staying out of this and staying off of Eden in general since the point farming finally got to me. To be honest, I've not wanted much to do with the community lately because coming onto the forums I once loved just gives me a headache and makes me sad. Reviewing and talking on the forums has been a big part of my life since I joined Eden. Seeing the point farmers take over and the lack of intelligent posts is disheartening.

I decided to sit back and see what would happen when the topics started coming out about "what can be done?" There are changes to the EoC that I really like, but I agree with many posters that more needs to be done.

Like Badass says, I have seen no change in the forum since the new EoC released. The exact same five people who started causing the problem continue to spam/troll/whatever the forums with mindless posts in blocks of five in short span.

I want to message these people and tell them they are ruining everything great about Eden. Alas, it is not my place to do this, as has been made clear from posts in the topics about this issue.

My two cents? I agree with Kindred - some public display of "hey check the reviews" or "hey, this is point farming" NEEDS to happen. Otherwise, it will continue to happen with new members as they come in. If they see posts with mods saying "not acceptable," they will more quickly learn how to properly interact in the forums.

I also think that some new blood into the "Forum Mod" account would be helpful. There are many contributors who would love to restore the forums to their previous glory. As it is now, it seems nothing is being done.

I also agree that there is still some grey area. Is five posts in two minutes point farming if they're obviously attempting to be creative in the topics (but still not really adding anything of value)? Those who want to point farm WILL try to work the system. They will say they think they are adding value or what have you. Unless the rules are crystal clear, they will find a way to get around them.

I have checked the forum every day (even though I have not posted) since this began. It is the SAME people doing it everyday. Not only do they do it, but it happens as discussion is going on about how it harms the community. They know well what they are doing and still continue to do it despite obvious cries from the community for it to cease. I do not see anything good in that type of behavior. A quick stop must be enacted if the forums are to get back to the way they were.

It is incredibly upsetting to me to see Eden in this state. For the time being, I will continue to watch in the wings to see what happens from here. However, I do think it should be noted that by not swiftly pushing the farmers out, the real contributors may leave instead. I understand it's a retail business, but which of the two groups do you think are more likely to spend real money rather than points only purchases? From a business standpoint, it is the hard working, active contributors that should be worried about more than the potential of losing a farmer. Instead, I feel like all the care in the world is being taken so that these people don't leave. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth where I feel that it is more important to keep these "contributors" that add nothing rather than the ones that do.

If any of this sounded overly bitchy, it was not intended as such. It is simply the cry of someone who feels they are losing something that was important to them. And with that, I go back into the shadows to see how this further plays out.
04/02/2012
Badass Badass
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
It's unclear to me exactly how this is to be handled. For example, in my recent experience where someone obviously used a secondary account to down vote 20 of my reviews, what would happen under the new EOC? Do you plan to determine the IP ... More
20 of your reviews!!!
That is freaking ridiculous..
I'm glad it didn't lower your rank, but what a jerky move!

And in that situation, I agree, a ban is quite necessary.

It sucks for those who genuinely do have two accounts for separate people in one household or anywhere with wi-fi like dorms or even some apartment buildings my area area offer free wi-fi in their bulidings.

An after thought on this... who in the world has time to go through and down rate 20 reviews!
04/02/2012
Badass Badass
Quote:
Originally posted by - Kira -
So...I've been staying out of this and staying off of Eden in general since the point farming finally got to me. To be honest, I've not wanted much to do with the community lately because coming onto the forums I once loved just gives me a ... More
I agree completely.
I've even thought about posting this thread into their "How was this" posts... maybe they aren't seeing it rather than not caring?

But I don't wanna overstep my bounds, ya dig?

Maybe the moderator should be posting this link(link to this thread I mean) into these (how is this, is this cool) threads.
04/02/2012
Beck Beck
Quote:
Originally posted by Badass
I agree completely.
I've even thought about posting this thread into their "How was this" posts... maybe they aren't seeing it rather than not caring?

But I don't wanna overstep my bounds, ya dig?

Maybe the ... More
I agree, I thought about posting the link on the threads myself, but I don't want to over step my boundaries. So instead I have been commenting, you can read more information about that item or this topic here- link

And giving them a link to the topic in the search of the forums.
04/02/2012
Badass Badass
Quote:
Originally posted by Beck
I agree, I thought about posting the link on the threads myself, but I don't want to over step my boundaries. So instead I have been commenting, you can read more information about that item or this topic here- link

And giving them a link ... More
Well, I don't know when you started, but I guess I'm following your lead.

I've been posting links to reviews on those posts on the forum today.
04/02/2012
wrmbreze wrmbreze
I honestly had never answered anyone on those spammy type posts before today. The reason I did this was because it bothers me when good people like Beck think about leaving, or Kindred getting downvoted on 20 reviews just for expressing an opinion. I have come to enjoy my time on Eden so much that I felt like it was time I helped make it better, so starting today, I am trying to do at least 10 of these per day when I see them. Maybe they are newbs and maybe they are just trying to get points. Hopefully if enough of us post on their spammy threads-HEY, Look at the reviews first, maybe they will stop. The community belongs to all of us and I guess I figured it was time that I took some of the responsibility of keeping it a great community.
04/02/2012
El-Jaro El-Jaro
Quote:
Originally posted by Badass
20 of your reviews!!!
That is freaking ridiculous..
I'm glad it didn't lower your rank, but what a jerky move!

And in that situation, I agree, a ban is quite necessary.

It sucks for those who genuinely do have two accounts ... More
I investigated and handled the issue with the person down-voting. We just would rather not publicly announce things like this, privacy and what not.

As for the posts about products working well or things like that, if you look at everything product page, review, and public profile, there's an option to post on it on the forums. This is how threads like that show up. They're probably started by people who just found the site and don't know that much about the awesomeness of EdenFantasys. If you see them pop-up, take a second and post the link to the review - no harm, no foul. If members start getting too hard on these new people, we'll have fewer of them or even give the site a bad reputation of being rude or something.

Let's keep this site awesome and welcoming
04/02/2012
SizeQueenAndProud SizeQueenAndProud
I appreciate this EOC as a newcomer to the site. The 24-hour rule is something I have found useful in other situations and having a cooling down period would be most helpful in disputes on the site instead of rushing to judgement on all sides.

This really helps clarify all expectations for me and seems to be very clear and extremely fair. Much appreciated!
04/03/2012
marrythenight marrythenight
thank you for this. as a newbie I'm definitely motivated by the points system to contribute and always a little worried that I may be going into the territory of "farming" and would like to avoid that. this definitely helps clear things up.
04/03/2012
Antipova Antipova
Quote:
Originally posted by - Kira -
So...I've been staying out of this and staying off of Eden in general since the point farming finally got to me. To be honest, I've not wanted much to do with the community lately because coming onto the forums I once loved just gives me a ... More
Like Kira, I'm really hoping that this does a lot of good so that I start spending a greater amount of time on the forums again Looking forward!

And as far as JR's little bit below: My very first post to the forums was about butt plugs, but I posted it to the Vibrators category (because that was default, and I didn't know it, nor how to change it). The site was a lot less full back then, and I don't think my question even got a reply. (Then I saw myself that it wasn't in the right category, and made a new one (aw look guys! It's my first ever thread!)

If somebody had come right in and said "newb, you're doing it wrong!" or "oh gawd, read the reviews!" (because I had, and it wasn't mentioned by anybody), or "Check the EOC, you're posting in the wrong category and it looks like point farming," I probably would have been embarrassed and left.

If somebody had said "Hey, looks like you're new to Eden, welcome! One thing you might not have noticed yet is that the default forum category when you're adding a discussion to a product is 'vibrators'--- you're probably going to get a better response if you move it to 'anal toys'. ---then I would have been grateful for the welcome and the helpful advice.

So... I used to do this kind of welcome/guide in the right direction post a lot more often... and it seems like, along with my lessened forum activity in general, I am doing less of that. It just seems like there are such an overwhelming number of new posts, and it often seems like the rampant point farmers kind of overshadow the first-time contributors that would become awesome assets to the community.

So I really look forward to this new EOC both outlining unacceptable behavior, and (as Kindred mentioned) making it clear in a public manner so new forumgoers can see what is and what is not acceptable (not public punishments, but public links to the EOC on offending posts etc from the Forum Moderator account). And as a result, we'll be able to see through a bit of the clutter and have more time and emotional wherewithal to say hi to new contributors. (I don't know if it's just me, but the vapid posts tend to exhaust me and make me not want to post.)

So. Anyway. I think I started this post because I wanted to say "first posts make an impression---I definitely still remember mine! Be gentle to newcomers, and let the Forum Mod dole out justice. If you have the patience and goodwill in you to address new posters, do it kindly, and always assume the best about the poster. The "Most Charitable Interpretation," and then give them an opportunity to live up to it."
04/03/2012
Ansley Ansley
Quote:
Originally posted by Antipova
Like Kira, I'm really hoping that this does a lot of good so that I start spending a greater amount of time on the forums again Looking forward!

And as far as JR's little bit below: My very first post to the forums was about butt ... More
Antipova, you have hit the nail on the head!

"So. Anyway. I think I started this post because I wanted to say "first posts make an impression---I definitely still remember mine! Be gentle to newcomers, and let the Forum Mod dole out justice. If you have the patience and goodwill in you to address new posters, do it kindly, and always assume the best about the poster. The "Most Charitable Interpretation," and then give them an opportunity to live up to it."

Gently guide people who may not understand how Eden works. This is one of the most unique retail sites on the market and don't we all remember how we felt like kids in the candy store when we discovered that contributing meant we would be rewarded? We all had to learn how to do things, properly.

The comments guiding us from the people who were invested in the community helped us understand.
04/03/2012
Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by Ansley
Antipova, you have hit the nail on the head!

"So. Anyway. I think I started this post because I wanted to say "first posts make an impression---I definitely still remember mine! Be gentle to newcomers, and let the Forum Mod dole out ... More
Except that she, and I agree with her, believes that EF Should be the one actively dolling out this advice. We as a community are still unclear what is and is not acceptable behavior. As evidence, there continues to be activity every day that I consider point farming (5 posts in 5 minutes) yet these same contributors continue to do so every day. In my opinion, EF risks alienating a portion of the community that wants to contribute in a positive manner out of fear of offending contributors that are involved in what many consider questionable behavior that seemingly violates the new EOC.
04/03/2012
wildorchid wildorchid
Quote:
Originally posted by Antipova
Like Kira, I'm really hoping that this does a lot of good so that I start spending a greater amount of time on the forums again Looking forward!

And as far as JR's little bit below: My very first post to the forums was about butt ... More
Thank you so much. I was about to post something about being pushed out by older, more experienced Edenites because it sounds like they'd like to police themselves. You aired my concerns much better than I could have. Thanks you very very much.
04/03/2012
Callisto Callisto
X Posted from the other thread.. didn't see the new thread direction until too late.

...

I've noticed that people comment on my reviews just to say how good they are.. I'd rather answer questions than see praises.. maybe I'm weird.

Just seems odd to me.
04/03/2012
Total posts: 200
Unique posters: 93