The New Intimacy

Why is there such hostility at Eden?

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Contributor: markeagleone markeagleone
I am posting this question to all of the members of our community. I joined this site because of the products and because of you, the members. Several here have gratiously took me under their wing, and yes, I do call them friends. Others, I am beginning to reach out to.

I understand that everyone has off days. I am no exception to that. But really, we here are all adults from different walks of life. We chose to band together in this community for more than just products. We chose to be here to better ourselves, and to help others out.

Due to my age, I am pretty set in my ways, but I am also open to all of your input. Retaliation voting is wrong. If someone gives me a lower than perfect score, then I ask them to leave an explanation as to what I left out. I will do the same, not to degrade or belittle you, but to help you for your next review. I do not vote just because someone is a higher rank. I vote on the review.

We are a team here. Yes, at times, it may seem as a competition, but in competition, you strive to make yourself better. You should not despise someone better than you. You should learn from them. Yes, I am still learning and I always will, to the day I am no more!
03/23/2011
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Contributor: Pleasure Piratess Pleasure Piratess
I think most of the people here are very nice, but there are always a few "trouble-makers" that try to join in. Fortunately they never seem to stick around too long. And I agree with everything you said.
03/23/2011
Contributor: liilii080 liilii080
Fight the hateration with a big dose of shoulder shrug and dash of whatever. I think the people who really are trying and want to be part of the community will not resort to down voting and hopefully, like Pirates said, they won't stick around to spread negativity. Karma goes around and comes around, eh? And for what it's worth, mark, I've enjoyed getting to know you and your wife here and am glad you are both on ef.
03/23/2011
Contributor: El-Jaro El-Jaro
I wouldn't use the word "better". I'd use "more experienced". I don't think anyone is "better" than anyone else.

Otherwise, I agree with that. Pleasure Piratess is pretty much on though.
03/23/2011
Contributor: markeagleone markeagleone
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
I wouldn't use the word "better". I'd use "more experienced". I don't think anyone is "better" than anyone else.

Otherwise, I agree with that. Pleasure Piratess is pretty much on though.
I agree, sorry for the oversight!
03/23/2011
Contributor: tigerkate tigerkate
sorry you're feeling some hostility.

Was this specific retaliation voting against you?

That seems immature.
I always list the information I wanted to know that a review leaves out, especially if I vote below "useful."

I do wonder though, it really sucks when I get like 10 Excellent votes, and that one person has to come along and vote useful without writing why in a comment.

In any case, I never go vote on someone else's reviews because I feel hostility toward them. I just read random recent reviews on products I'm interested in... And if I don't find the review helpful at all, I am not going to vote higher than I think the person deserves. But I do explain in a comment, and I get messages from some reviewers thanking me for that, or asking me questions.
03/23/2011
Contributor: DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
Quote:
Originally posted by tigerkate
sorry you're feeling some hostility.

Was this specific retaliation voting against you?

That seems immature.
I always list the information I wanted to know that a review leaves out, especially if I vote below ... more
"Useful" is a GOOD RATING. I hate that people think that a rating of useful means they failed in some way. If your review is useful, that's awesome.

For me, if I have any questions after reading a review, then the review was not extremely useful.
03/23/2011
Contributor: markeagleone markeagleone
Quote:
Originally posted by tigerkate
sorry you're feeling some hostility.

Was this specific retaliation voting against you?

That seems immature.
I always list the information I wanted to know that a review leaves out, especially if I vote below ... more
No, it hasn't happened to me,yet. I try to give suggestions in comments I leave. I have seen it, though.
03/23/2011
Contributor: markeagleone markeagleone
Quote:
Originally posted by DeliciousSurprise
"Useful" is a GOOD RATING. I hate that people think that a rating of useful means they failed in some way. If your review is useful, that's awesome.

For me, if I have any questions after reading a review, then the review was ... more
I agree with you. Useful is an achievement. I'm glad your honest. I hope you leave those unanswered questions on the post, at least for me. I need the help from time to time!
03/23/2011
Contributor: markeagleone markeagleone
Quote:
Originally posted by tigerkate
sorry you're feeling some hostility.

Was this specific retaliation voting against you?

That seems immature.
I always list the information I wanted to know that a review leaves out, especially if I vote below ... more
It's more towards all the arguing in the forums. Some topics set off flags like crazy. I understand that we all have our different opinions. If I have a point to make, I will make it, but I will not try to change anyone's opinion. It's more to give them, and me, a different side to consider.
03/23/2011
Contributor: Alan & Michele Alan & Michele
Quote:
Originally posted by markeagleone
It's more towards all the arguing in the forums. Some topics set off flags like crazy. I understand that we all have our different opinions. If I have a point to make, I will make it, but I will not try to change anyone's opinion. It's ... more
It's like that anywhere you go, really... loads of people "playing nice" together, and then a few who set things off. Most people here are amazingly good at having civil debates or agreeing to disagree, but sometimes tempers flare and it brings out the worst in even the most well-mannered people. That doesn't happen too often, but you know how it is. You'll see that many will come back later and apologize for whatever they said after they cool down a little too, which just evidences the fact that there are a LOT of good people here.
I'm not saying that there aren't a few truly unpleasant peeps out there, or ones who just can't seem to say anything diplomatically, but fortunately they are few. The same goes with the down voting; there are a few who think that they're really counting coup by doing it, but the majority aren't that immature.

liilii080 had the best advice that can be given, really.
03/24/2011
Contributor: Jobthingy Jobthingy
I have been on forums for a long time and no matter where you go, especially on the net, there is always this problem. The thing about internet communication that most people do not understand is that it is just words on a screen, with no tone or body language. They read it as they want to hear it.

only 7% of communication is made up of the words we speak (or write in this case), the rest is non verbal cues (tone and body language) and without those cues it can be hard for some to hear what the other person is saying.

Thankfully, this is a well moderated forum and it doesnt take long for someone from Team-Awesomesauce-EF to step in and remind people how they should be behaving.
03/24/2011
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
As much as this is a playground for us, it's a business. When a business grows, things change. If those changes create a problem for a handful of users but allows the majority of users to benefit, that's the way things roll. You can't please all of the people all of the time and Eden has to do the things it feels is best for the bottom line.

There are always going to be people who just can't refrain from complaining, whining and calling out behavior they themselves are guilty of doing. All you can hope is that they will either go away or grow up. The internet has been attracting trolls since 1995, no site or forum is immune. (Have you ever read the comments at the bottom of a CNN/MSN/Cracked/FARK article? Those people are ridic in their criticism.) I used to be that way myself, in my early 20's. Then I realized I've got it pretty good and whatever I'm lacking I'm probably not missing. Sometimes it's really easy to forget about the bigger picture when frustration sets in.

I'm glad that you are passionate enough about your vision of how the community should be and that you care enough to voice it. I'm sure many of us feel as you do.
  •   (1)
    I am personally offended by this
03/24/2011
Contributor: LavenderSkies LavenderSkies
Thankfully I have not encountered hostility at Eden- I consider it a happy, helpful place..
03/25/2011
Contributor: Joie de Cherresse Joie de Cherresse
Quote:
Originally posted by LavenderSkies
Thankfully I have not encountered hostility at Eden- I consider it a happy, helpful place..
Ditto. I haven't seen any hostility. Unless I'm missing something, but if I am, I'm glad b/c I wouldn't want to be involved in that. Eden is a fabulous community. Everyone is nice and offers help and opinions and every one's opinion is respected here from what I have seen.
03/25/2011
Contributor: Daniel & Brittany Daniel & Brittany
I've not been here for a very long time, but I can say in my experiance so far the whole of eden seems to be great people who have been nothing but warm welcomeing and good to me not to mention incredibly helpful, some better than that but none lesser. I'm sure there are a few trolls out there who come just to start things with people who seem happier than themselves, so just follow suit with the other happy people and shrug or laugh it off, better yet smother em with goodness, Love Love Love
04/03/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Quote:
Originally posted by tigerkate
sorry you're feeling some hostility.

Was this specific retaliation voting against you?

That seems immature.
I always list the information I wanted to know that a review leaves out, especially if I vote below ... more
We should also remember that we all have different opinions of what makes a review useful. Some of us who've been around a while may have some general uniformity of what we like to see in a review; however, other people don't have the same standards. Also, some people vote as to whether or not they feel the product would work for them, not whether the review answered all their questions.

Again, as others have stated, "Useful" is a good rating on a review. But that "useful" won't decrease your rank or anything. Or even the rating of the review.
04/03/2011
Contributor: tigerkate tigerkate
Quote:
Originally posted by DeliciousSurprise
"Useful" is a GOOD RATING. I hate that people think that a rating of useful means they failed in some way. If your review is useful, that's awesome.

For me, if I have any questions after reading a review, then the review was ... more
You misunderstood me, I think.
I said I definitely let other people know if I vote BELOW useful. And that it's just a tad annoying to get 10 excellent votes, and 1 useful vote, without a clue as to why. If I write a very, extremely detailed review... then I will want to know what I needed to include more of in my next review!

I never said that useful was not a good rating at all.
04/03/2011
Contributor: DeliciousSurprise DeliciousSurprise
Quote:
Originally posted by tigerkate
You misunderstood me, I think.

I said I definitely let other people know if I vote BELOW useful. And that it's just a tad annoying to get 10 excellent votes, and 1 useful vote, without a clue as to why. If I write a very, extremely ... more
I know you didn't; that's why I also included the comment about one of the reasons I chose useful rather than extremely useful.

04/03/2011
Contributor: Selective Sensualist Selective Sensualist
I'm sad because I just received my first "somewhat useful" rating. It was on a review with twenty-nine "extremely useful" votes (and now the one "somewhat useful" vote).

I always spend an ENORMOUS amount of time working on each review with the goal of providing as many details relevant to the toy that I possibly can. I try to imagine the various types of questions someone might have about the product, and then I try to cover each question. I genuinely want to help others better decide whether the toy I am reviewing is a good choice for them to spend their hard-earned money on.

I honestly cannot think of anything I neglected to add to this review and wish I knew what would make it more "useful." I even included details of how the toy performed compared to other toys with similar shapes and also provided several photos to illustrate different aspects of the toy. I wish I knew what it was that I failed to include.
04/03/2011
Contributor: tigerkate tigerkate
Quote:
Originally posted by Selective Sensualist
I'm sad because I just received my first "somewhat useful" rating. It was on a review with twenty-nine "extremely useful" votes (and now the one "somewhat useful" vote).



I always spend an ENORMOUS ... more
Well, as BBW Talks Toys said... some people actually vote for other reasons, like based on how they feel about the toys themselves, etc...
04/04/2011
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by tigerkate
sorry you're feeling some hostility.

Was this specific retaliation voting against you?

That seems immature.
I always list the information I wanted to know that a review leaves out, especially if I vote below ... more
The problem is everyone assumes that excellent is the point we are all striving for, and it simply isn't. We are asked to write useful reviews, period! Excellence is a subjective opinion based on each review, or at least it should be. If you feel the reviewer went above and beyond and has persented a review that is excellent then voting such a high score is certainly warrented...but come on people not everyone can write excellent reveiws ALL the time! Nope, not even me. I get useful votes all the time and yeak some of them are retaliatory. I know some of our members are creating dummy accounts for that purpose, I just don't take it personally.
I am sorry you have had some bad experiences. You write amazing reviews, just shrug off the bullshit and keep toying!
04/04/2011
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by Selective Sensualist
I'm sad because I just received my first "somewhat useful" rating. It was on a review with twenty-nine "extremely useful" votes (and now the one "somewhat useful" vote).



I always spend an ENORMOUS ... more
Oh hun one less than useful vote won't cause any change in anything and could have been a mistake, retaliatory vote, someone who doesn't like the product you reviewed any number of reasons. If you notice a pattern then going to one of the more successful persons who down voted you and ask for pointers (notice I did not say demand an explanation!) Seriously though, it sucks and I, too, dwell too much on low votes but you know the majority of the people reading your reviews believe they are useful...let them be your compass!
Each product is going to get several reviews at any rate so you can be reasonably certain any questions a reader might have will be answered and if not that's what the comment box is for.
04/04/2011
Contributor: Bunnycups Bunnycups
I haven't encountered hostility, but I am awfully nervous of writing a review that isn't useful, to the point that I haven't been writing any. I've come to the conclusion that I'm just going to write reviews as best I can and have fun with it.
04/04/2011
Contributor: Selective Sensualist Selective Sensualist
Aw, thanks for trying to make me feel better, tigerkate and Airen!

I believe it was a new member who downvoted. I have not noticed a trend since, thankfully, it has been my only "somewhat useful" vote I've received thus far (knock on wood). I was just really sad because it was on a review for which I went above and beyond to provide extra information and thoughtful tips for use---in addition to fully addressing the typical, expected information.
04/04/2011
Contributor: Selective Sensualist Selective Sensualist
Quote:
Originally posted by Bunnycups
I haven't encountered hostility, but I am awfully nervous of writing a review that isn't useful, to the point that I haven't been writing any. I've come to the conclusion that I'm just going to write reviews as best I can and have fun with it.
"I've come to the conclusion that I'm just going to write reviews as best I can and have fun with it."


Excellent advice to live by---and something I keep trying to reiterate to myself so that I don't let things get me down.
04/04/2011
Contributor: Bunnycups Bunnycups
Quote:
Originally posted by Selective Sensualist
"I've come to the conclusion that I'm just going to write reviews as best I can and have fun with it."





Excellent advice to live by---and something I keep trying to reiterate to myself so that I don't let things get me down.
It's a hard thing to do, but I won't stop trying. Otherwise, I'd get down and stay down. The view is much better from up here.
04/04/2011
Contributor: Solar Ray Solar Ray
Wow, I didn't realize there was actually much hostility on the site. Everything I have come across in the forums has seemed pretty friendly and on the whole pretty easy going... but maybe I just haven't stepped into a hornet's nest yet.

If you all think there is hostility on this site I'm betting I could show you literally dozens of other forums that are MUCH worse.

I think the most "aggro" feeling I have is when an item is out of stock and it seems to take FOREVER to come back. LOL

Also I think the recent delays in shipping by EF because of the big move may also be getting some people extra tense and frazzled because it's always frustrating having to wait several weeks for fun toys that you want badly... but a huge extra helping of patience goes a long way. I know all the folks that work here at EF want to get us our stuff quickly as well and are just as frustrated by all the delays and "growing pains" as we are.
04/06/2011
Contributor: BBW Talks Toys BBW Talks Toys
Aside from down voting or retaliatory voting, I would say that most of the hostility comes from people who feel that they're entitled to criticize others disrespectfully and then feel as if they're not being treated fairly when someone comes up and says, "Hey, it's not cool to talk to people like that. Please try to treat people respectfully." People forget that there are Expectations of Conduct OR they don't understand the EOC. They live in a world where they feel that their judgments are justified and there couldn't possibly be more than one "right" lifestyle, moral code, or belief system.

Specifically, the EOC states: "We strongly support freedom of speech, but we do not support negative or hurtful behavior. Debates and disagreements are a part of the territory, but we expect members to conduct themselves in a mature and respectful manner. We will not tolerate bullying, deliberate provocation or disrespect."

Bullying includes repeatedly emailing to personal emails after asking not to be contacted, calling people names, and otherwise harassing people.

We're all adults, or we're supposed to be; so we should have developed the skills to express our opinions with kindness and respect for others who may not believe quite the way we do.
04/06/2011
Contributor: Liz2 Liz2
I think it has been about three years that I have been involved with EF and the forums. For the most part, I have found members considerate of feelings but voting still confuses me. Things improved 100% after names were listed but I also believe that any toy that is not "mainstream" risks negative votes just because some members are just not into certain kinds of play. If you are vs anal play, every anal toy review could be considered "not useful" same with harnesses and double dils.
I really don't see EF as a competition but a place to get ideas on toys, decent prices and the opportunity to receive decent toys, gratis, for review.
Sometimes outragious things are said here but I agree with the others, just shrug the comments off and go on......No society is perfect!
04/06/2011