ADVANCED poll, and question...pushing envelope even for this site, I think. Not sure which category to post in even..Oral? Anal?....

There is a "bacterial transfer difference amount" between rimming a really clean ass which has not has anything IN it since washing to "bring down" GI bacterial, and ATM either fingers or toys or a penis.

The outer area of the anus, if recently cleaned, will have little bacteria on it. However, if a toy or finger or penis are placed into the anus, it will most likely come in contact with GI bacteria at it's source, such as E. Coli, Listeria, Hepatitis, certain types of parasites etc.

I know some people don't want to hear about the germs, My Man and I play around with rimming (and funny enough, he does it to me, but won't let me do it to him, similarly to Gun) and we also have anal sex and anal play (on me, not him) but I am still aware of issues that could occur due to GI bacteria. Some of these problems are self limiting, like a mild tummy bug, some are more serious. I'm not going to say ATM has never happened, but it was never planned. "OMG, I'm giving him head and he just...." kinda thing, which has happened once or twice, when I was in the Twilight Zone from the anal sex to start out with. (Once I had his knuckle near my mouth the entire time, I though it was the very tip of his penis and couldn't figure out why nothing came out when he came. Duh. I was not fully aware of what was going on at that point, however.) We wouldn't plan doing it, and he actually did get sick from a poorly timed rim job once, so it is a good idea to be forewarned. One can get sick from ATM, but won't necessarily every time.

I don't quite understand the need to "push the envelope" just to prove something to someone else, though. What you do while having sex should be what you and your partner enjoy, and of course trying new things from time to time. I don't see the point of "envelope pushing" just so one can tell somebody about it exclusively. If it happens, it happens, but I do try to avoid ATM. less

I meant the question might be pushing the envelope. None in our group ever do anything we are comfortable with in our own skin and with our monogamous spouses. However, we ALL like to try new things and DO go for a challenge now and again. When things show up in porn, we, over the years, have said "hey, let's try that".

As for Listeria, Hepatitis...etc, someone has to have that in order to pass it on. We all all long term, happily married and monogamous, so horrible disease are not just going to appear, although your observation about internal verses external bacterial counts sounds like there is some logic to it. THANKS less

Okay, even among the amazingly open, free thinking, intelligent and well read, thoughtful members of this "community", I think this is a discussion that pushes the envelope where
I bet a number of folks lose their comfort level. Our intent is NOT to insult or make anyone uncomfortable with this topic, so accept our apology if this seems a bit over the top, but this is a
serious discussion question.

Let me start by saying we have two other couples, all long time married, monogamous and happy as far as we can tell. We all speak VERY openly and honest about everything, including sex. This
topic came up, of all things, over a great Pot Luck BBQ last weekend. Now I have to ask the larger EdenFantasy community their opinion on the subject.

Let's start with some facts. All of our six "friends" watch porn with their spouse. Two of our couples do regularly as part of their "background" when having relations. We ALL have noticed that
the new "push the envelope" activity making it's way more mainstream is "ATM" (ass to mouth, for those to whom I have to spell it out...sorry). Usually penis, toy or occasionally a finger. This even
showed up in one of the "female made and directed" girl solo masturbation DVD's recently. More over, one of our group said they listened to some "College Sex Advice" show on radio and one caller...a girl, talked about
ATM as the new "dirty girl dare, bar setting activity" at SPRING BREAK!!!! That is now the "how dirty do you want to go" activity. The only rival, according to the caller...no kidding..was "double anal" and apparently
it is now the college "thing to TRY", again on a dare, for college girls!!! If true, my how things change in just a few years...when drinking a shot from a belly button, and flashing a tit was the big DARE item!

Of our three couples, we all went "EEEWWWW"..."we could NEVER go THERE". However, the more we talked, we wondered....."WHY could we never go there"?
The fact is, all three of our couples engage in analingus (rimming) with their partners. All three couples have done 69 with kissing, licking and tongue probing of their partners anus, and all agree they
enjoy giving and receiving this activity. None has ever had any "yukky" accidents. All make sure they wash first and no one in our group has ever used an enema for this (or anal sex in general).

For two couples in our group it is occasional, for one couple it is a very regular part of oral sex and almost weekly.

One woman in our group does use "cherry flavored and scented gel lube" prior to such activity, but that is about it.

SO...we got to wondering...SINCE we all "go to the point of probing our partners tushies with our tongues, what is the huge leap, we ALL cannot take to any ATM activity"???? Intellectually, it seems
very MINOR a jump. However, emotionally, and mentally, it seems like a universe of difference...and that is with THREE very "open with their partners" couples.

Anyone else find themselves in this same quandary?

I know this is a STRANGE question..even here at the Forum, but all six of us are really curious if anyone else has thought about this one...and how they do or don't feel or act on the idea.

SO...if you are an advanced love maker, please offer your input. THANKS for being such great sports about all this. less

I know! isn't it funny how selective people are when it comes to which potential dangers and warnings they choose to pay attention to or ignore. The potential for danger in getting behind the wheel of your car and driving a few miles is likely much greater than the risk taken in any sort of atm sex, but because of how people are conditioned to think about things you'd probably have this enormous amount of people who would be all nasty and snotty over the situation that involves much less risk. And that tells you its not really just aboutn safety, it is about social taboo. Which is what makes certain activities so fun to begin with! less

There is a "bacterial transfer difference amount" between rimming a really clean ass which has not has anything IN it since washing to "bring down" GI bacterial, and ATM either fingers or toys or a penis.

The outer area of the anus, if recently cleaned, will have little bacteria on it. However, if a toy or finger or penis are placed into the anus, it will most likely come in contact with GI bacteria at it's source, such as E. Coli, Listeria, Hepatitis, certain types of parasites etc.

I know some people don't want to hear about the germs, My Man and I play around with rimming (and funny enough, he does it to me, but won't let me do it to him, similarly to Gun) and we also have anal sex and anal play (on me, not him) but I am still aware of issues that could occur due to GI bacteria. Some of these problems are self limiting, like a mild tummy bug, some are more serious. I'm not going to say ATM has never happened, but it was never planned. "OMG, I'm giving him head and he just...." kinda thing, which has happened once or twice, when I was in the Twilight Zone from the anal sex to start out with. (Once I had his knuckle near my mouth the entire time, I though it was the very tip of his penis and couldn't figure out why nothing came out when he came. Duh. I was not fully aware of what was going on at that point, however.) We wouldn't plan doing it, and he actually did get sick from a poorly timed rim job once, so it is a good idea to be forewarned. One can get sick from ATM, but won't necessarily every time.

I don't quite understand the need to "push the envelope" just to prove something to someone else, though. What you do while having sex should be what you and your partner enjoy, and of course trying new things from time to time. I don't see the point of "envelope pushing" just so one can tell somebody about it exclusively. If it happens, it happens, but I do try to avoid ATM. less