i try not to equate heteronormativity and heterosexuality

not that the latter is above a good ribbing

i have no problem mocking anyone who encourages compulsory heterosexuality tbh

haha, well yeah, but that's not exactly hard unfortunately

i'm also pretty spoiled wrt my internet hangouts

True. I find myself shocked all too often when I find myself in venues that are sex-negative, heteronormative, and gender policing.

I do see what you mean with some people around here though.

well, your profile does say you're heterosexual, soooo

which begs the question, why do you use a cover to a book that demonized and objectified lesbians for your avatar?

I do it for the same reason that people took the word "fag" (previously negative) and created a positive connotation around it. Is that ok with you?

Language, as you are clearly aware, provokes strong feelings. However, we have power over language.

And by the way, queer people need heterosexual allies. The more you push people away because they "conform to the norm", the less people will understand and champion your cause. I understand the need for belonging and community, and allowing heterosexuals into your club may seem like a breech of etiquette, but you are perpetuating the same argument that has been used by the majority to marginalize the minority throughout history: people who are different from myself can be ignored.

um no, it's not okay with me, because the only people who can reclaim words and concepts are members of the affected group. a straight person doing it is just... another straight person loling at a token of my oppression.

i don't need "allies" either. certainly not ones who don't understand why it is valuable and important to me to connect to other queer women. and it's certainly not equivalent, primarily because i do not have the societal power to harm people when i exclude them. excluding straight people sometimes functions to give me brief respites from straight privilege and the hurtful actions it can bring about in even the most well-meaning of people, and it also provides me with a space that is full of people like me, which is a source of strength in that it shatters the illusion our heterosexist society builds that i am alone, aberrant, exceptional in a bad way, etc.

other queer people and i can fight our own fight. and people who genuinely care will still be with us, and eventually hearts and minds will be changed. we don't /need/ anyone.

and for that matter, you're not entitled to queer people's constant approval, just by being straight.

well, i assume you're using it as a funny joke, lol that's so silly, satan was a lesbian, those crazy old-timers kind of thing. which does involve laughing.

this is me being not-hostile. maybe you should evaluate why you feel attacked right now. is it because you feel entitled to my gratitude because you endorse the idea that i should have some basic human rights? is it because, as a straight person raised in a heterosexist society, you have been groomed not to be challenged on your straight privilege or the actions it causes?

and btw, i wasn't talking about approval of your sexual proclivities. i was talking about your actions wrt queer people.

are you seriously counting yourself as an LGBT ally while you tell a gay woman that she's not only required to include straight people into LGBT spaces but that if she doesn't she's responsible for homophobia?

your initial comment in this discussion post was just to express how offended you were that you aren't being included in a space for queer women. do you not see your privilege there? you don't have a right to LGBT spaces, and being excluded from them doesn't make you oppressed. furthermore, we don't even have the power to treat you the way straight people treat us. it's not the same - we're not being closed minded or bigoted, we're protecting ourselves, and if you can't see that, then you really don't deserve to be calling yourself an ally. and we definitely don't need allies like you, who demand to be front and center in the one community where they aren't. you come first everywhere else, so stop complaining that you aren't getting special treatment here of all places.

why do you need to take part in order to learn? you sound like someone who needs to be told to see with their eyes and not their hands tbh. understanding doesn't mean contributing, and saying "i guess i don't count" when someone brings up queer women isn't trying to understand the problem or take part, it's making the discussion about you and you alone. which is why we've spent this thread discussing why you can't be a part of our community instead of what we wanted to talk about. you've effectively made a discussion about queer women into a discussion about straight people. when allies demand to be part of the community, you don't just take part, you take control. which is why we need spaces apart from you.

and let's not get into the manipulative "omg i'm so terrible" bit. i never attacked you, personally or otherwise, so playing the martyr isn't going to help you here. perhaps you should take divineexploit's advice and examine why you feel attacked in this discussion.

uhhhh, by listening? respectfully participating in conversations you ARE wanted in / invited to.

but this thread right here isn't about you, it's not for your learning opportunity. it's just supposed to be a thread where queer women can post and be like "whoo bein' gay" and follow each other. and you made it about you and straight people as a whole.