Does this mean that you don't know any actual transgendered people?

Being hetero has nothing to do with gender. Gender and sexuality are two different things. Regardless of your gender choice, you can favor men, women, butch, femme, other, and none.

Also, the poll implies that people are transgender or cisgender. Gender isn't binary and includes people who identify as genderqueer or genderfluid, not specifically cis/trans. less

Does this mean that you don't know any actual transgendered people?

Being hetero has nothing to do with gender. Gender and sexuality are two different things. Regardless of your gender choice, you can favor men, women, butch, femme, other, and none.

Also, the poll implies that people are transgender or cisgender. Gender isn't binary and includes people who identify as genderqueer or genderfluid, not specifically cis/trans. less

NO....I didn't mean that. I meant I admired the fact that these kids seemed amazingly well spoken and confident in their own "skin", despite what they themselves identified as living a difficult lifestyle that "we wouldn't have chosen", due to the barbs thrown at them by the rest of society. We all have some issues that catch hell from others, and when people can come out from that situation and be happy, productive folks....sorry, I DO admire that. It is no different then admiring the blind lawyer I know, who persevered when others said "no you can't", or my gay friends, who despite many people casting aspersions on them, set up a loving, stable household that many "hetero" couples could use as a model!!! I am NOT admiring my friend for being blind, or my friends for being gay, I am admiring them for doing what it takes to be "the same as everyone else" despite the fact that society does not make it easy sometimes!!! less

Wow, that is a COMPLICATED answer I am going to need to re-read after some sleep. Do I know any "Transgender people"? Nope...at least none that I know of. I have some gay friends of both sexes. My hubby and I are in the wedding party for an upcoming marriage of a good friend who is gay and his partner. We also have two couples we frequently socialize with who are, in one case, legally married lesbians and in another case, very long term committed woman. However, if we have ever met anyone who is "transgender" (living outwardly as a woman, while being biologically male, or living as a male while being biologically female), we certainly had no clue about it. Forgive me if the poll implies my ignorance on the issue. As I said, I never gave it much thought, but for some reason it is "all in the media" lately, and this one spot on Sunday was very illuminating for me.

I will add one more bit of information, since your post implies that such lifestyles are so common I should know some. I have been seeing people at their most vulnerable and often with minimal clothing, due to my career, for almost 35 years. In that time, I have seen one "lady" who turned out to be "equipped" as a male, and he identified himself as a "cross dressing man" (the term "MAN" was his). Beyond that, I never had a single person who "self identified" as anything other then what their "reproductive organs" would have identified them as! It may be that in the setting I work, no one felt the need to explain further, and that is fine, but I honestly have never, ever, in my fifty years of life, had someone tell me that they were "transgender" or "fluid gender" or any such thing. Yes, Gay males and females, and a couple of woman I know who would enjoy pleasure however it came to them (from a male or female), but that was it.

Maybe I have lived a sheltered life, but having traveled to over 30 countries and having given lectures around the globe, I didn't think I was living in that much of a bubble!!! less

Wow, that is a COMPLICATED answer I am going to need to re-read after some sleep. Do I know any "Transgender people"? Nope...at least none that I know of. I have some gay friends of both sexes. My hubby and I are in the wedding party for an upcoming marriage of a good friend who is gay and his partner. We also have two couples we frequently socialize with who are, in one case, legally married lesbians and in another case, very long term committed woman. However, if we have ever met anyone who is "transgender" (living outwardly as a woman, while being biologically male, or living as a male while being biologically female), we certainly had no clue about it. Forgive me if the poll implies my ignorance on the issue. As I said, I never gave it much thought, but for some reason it is "all in the media" lately, and this one spot on Sunday was very illuminating for me.

I will add one more bit of information, since your post implies that such lifestyles are so common I should know some. I have been seeing people at their most vulnerable and often with minimal clothing, due to my career, for almost 35 years. In that time, I have seen one "lady" who turned out to be "equipped" as a male, and he identified himself as a "cross dressing man" (the term "MAN" was his). Beyond that, I never had a single person who "self identified" as anything other then what their "reproductive organs" would have identified them as! It may be that in the setting I work, no one felt the need to explain further, and that is fine, but I honestly have never, ever, in my fifty years of life, had someone tell me that they were "transgender" or "fluid gender" or any such thing. Yes, Gay males and females, and a couple of woman I know who would enjoy pleasure however it came to them (from a male or female), but that was it.

Maybe I have lived a sheltered life, but having traveled to over 30 countries and having given lectures around the globe, I didn't think I was living in that much of a bubble!!! less

You may say that you're not, but what you are doing is admiring them for just that. You're not admiring them for their accomplishments, you're admiring them for their accomplishments BECAUSE you assumed that they would not be capable otherwise.

And people who are trans- are not "doing what it takes to be the same as everyone else," they're being who they are, which is different and variant, and there is nothing wrong with that. less

I don't know what to say to this other than laugh.

No, you may not have been sheltered, but not admitting to your ignorance is a shame and not very wise. Most people are ignorant to something or other. Just because you haven't seen it or witnessed it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Historically, trans- people, genderfluid people, and intersex individuals have existed for many, many years. They may not have had this terminology, but they were around for a long time. less

I've you've given lectures around the globe, then add Judith Butler's book Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity to your education. It's standard reading in feminist studies intro courses. less

Thanks for the links. I will sure look them up when I have time to absorb the material. As for lecturing around the world...it is NOT on this topic!!!! Believe me, what I lecture on is far more....um....let me see how to put this....."cut and dry". That works.
(I am a pretty accomplished female professional, from a family of accomplished woman, and who raised a daughter to likewise be a successful surgeon...and I have never ever taken a "feminist studies" course, and nether did my daughter. Sorry, at least when I was in school, I had no desire to "buy" what they were "selling" in those courses. I found my path to "equality and respect" far better suited by kicking ass in Chemistry and Biochemistry, Biology and Physiology. I read enough of the material from others who were in those "feminist studies" courses to know it was not my cup of tea. If that offends anyone, and I have no doubt it will, I am just being honest about how I felt at the time, and still do, without regrets). If other woman find education and fulfillment in those areas, more power to them. I wish them well, but it doesn't ever seem to hold my interest. less

Good golly, I didn't mean to open a can of worms. I knew Transgender people existed. I just said I didn't pay a lot of attention to the issue. I never personally met anyone who said they were such, and I sure don't ask people I meet or know.."Oh, by the way, are you Transgender"??? However, my lack of interest dissolved a bit in seeing that piece on TV. I suspect it was eye opening to a lot of "average, hetero, not involved with that lifestyle" types. I suspect all the variations on human sexuality have been around as long as human have, and all you need do is go back a SHORT span of time (relative to human kind) to the Greek and Roman era, where "sexual identity" was far more "fluid" and many more combinations were accepted as "totally normal".

I just fear I didn't explain myself clearly in this post, as I was just saying I thought it was a great bit of informative TV (for a change), and that was all. Sadly, whenever one crosses over into commenting on anything concerning the different "variations" of sexuality, beyond the average hetero stuff, it seems to open a beehive, even if someone is saying they have learned something they didn't know.

You want me to say I am "ignorant" on the topic? Fine. "I am ignorant on the topic". That is why I found the information interesting. I enjoy learning. It is one thing I enjoy about the Forum here. Does that somehow make it better, if I have not been steeped in one lifestyle or the other???

You, I suspect, have a skewed view of the majority of the worlds people, who, if you polled them, would likely say they did NOT know anyone who was "Trangendered". When one is "in" a certain group or community, it is easy to think that "everyone else" knows about it. That is simply not accurate. Let me take this a step further. Just due to your post, I did my own little test. I asked that very question at work of the thirty people who were in my "space" today working together (we talk about all kinds of things...this was a pretty innocent question compared to some). Not one of these thirty people, men and woman ranging in age from late 20's to mid 50's, and every single one with either a college degree and additional schooling, or advanced post graduate degrees, had ever "personally met, or knew of" anyone who was "trangender". All of them knew what it was (and many were surprised at the recent spat of "press attention" to that issue), but not one single person had met anyone who identified themselves as such. Maybe my tiny sample group is wrong, but I am going to conduct a poll right here on EF to see how that pans out!!!

Meanwhile, I admire you ALL for being here...straight, gay, trans, mixed, spun, fluid, squishy, multiplied, cloistered, stranded, celibate, televised, single, married, conjoined, non human, non earthly, ethereal, half unicorn or whatever!!! less

??? Okay. A bunch of photos of people marching in "Trans" parades. This is supposed to enlighten?
I actually find it silly, and baffling, that people feel they need to flaunt ANY lifestyle in public. I, like many people, could care less who you sleep with. I don't care who you love. If you work, pay your taxes, don't abuse me or mine, then we are on good terms. Period. I won't walk in a parade with a sign saying "straight, married, hetero pride" and I don't need to see a sign concerning your sleeping habits. Who cares????!!!! Why is anyone doing this? That I totally, completely, don't get. I suspect it is simply that when one feels isolated and in the minority, then they feel power, and even "average normality" (whatever that is), when they see others in definite support of their same situation, whatever that is. Beyond that, I cannot fathom why anyone's sexual preferences needs to be, or should be "put on parade"!?! I would actually love to hear from people that have participated in such public events as to why they did, and how they felt it was appropriate. I wonder how much these demonstrations actually hurt general public acceptance of their lifestyle, verses helps it? less

??? Okay. A bunch of photos of people marching in "Trans" parades. This is supposed to enlighten?
I actually find it silly, and baffling, that people feel they need to flaunt ANY lifestyle in public. I, like many people, could care less who you sleep with. I don't care who you love. If you work, pay your taxes, don't abuse me or mine, then we are on good terms. Period. I won't walk in a parade with a sign saying "straight, married, hetero pride" and I don't need to see a sign concerning your sleeping habits. Who cares????!!!! Why is anyone doing this? That I totally, completely, don't get. I suspect it is simply that when one feels isolated and in the minority, then they feel power, and even "average normality" (whatever that is), when they see others in definite support of their same situation, whatever that is. Beyond that, I cannot fathom why anyone's sexual preferences needs to be, or should be "put on parade"!?! I would actually love to hear from people that have participated in such public events as to why they did, and how they felt it was appropriate. I wonder how much these demonstrations actually hurt general public acceptance of their lifestyle, verses helps it? less

Wow, that is a COMPLICATED answer I am going to need to re-read after some sleep. Do I know any "Transgender people"? Nope...at least none that I know of. I have some gay friends of both sexes. My hubby and I are in the wedding party for an upcoming marriage of a good friend who is gay and his partner. We also have two couples we frequently socialize with who are, in one case, legally married lesbians and in another case, very long term committed woman. However, if we have ever met anyone who is "transgender" (living outwardly as a woman, while being biologically male, or living as a male while being biologically female), we certainly had no clue about it. Forgive me if the poll implies my ignorance on the issue. As I said, I never gave it much thought, but for some reason it is "all in the media" lately, and this one spot on Sunday was very illuminating for me.

I will add one more bit of information, since your post implies that such lifestyles are so common I should know some. I have been seeing people at their most vulnerable and often with minimal clothing, due to my career, for almost 35 years. In that time, I have seen one "lady" who turned out to be "equipped" as a male, and he identified himself as a "cross dressing man" (the term "MAN" was his). Beyond that, I never had a single person who "self identified" as anything other then what their "reproductive organs" would have identified them as! It may be that in the setting I work, no one felt the need to explain further, and that is fine, but I honestly have never, ever, in my fifty years of life, had someone tell me that they were "transgender" or "fluid gender" or any such thing. Yes, Gay males and females, and a couple of woman I know who would enjoy pleasure however it came to them (from a male or female), but that was it.

Maybe I have lived a sheltered life, but having traveled to over 30 countries and having given lectures around the globe, I didn't think I was living in that much of a bubble!!! less

I found my path in the physical sciences. However, my university's graduation requirements included humanities, social sciences, professional writing, computer programming, and fluency in a foreign language, as well as nonspecific courses that had to focus on non-Western culture, feminist studies, creative expression, and ethics of science and technology.

But this isn't a pissing contest. Why are you placing the term feminist studies in quotes, as well as the words buy and selling? Yet you incorrectly use capital letters for chemistry, biochemistry, etc. You're implying that you don't consider feminist studies a valid intellectual pursuit.

If your daughter's a successful surgeon (as you likewise may be), she should've studied intersex issues in med school, especially with regards to genetics and endocrinology. And her psychiatric rotation should've covered gender identity. less

Being transgendered isn't a lifestyle. As has already been pointed out in this thread, gender is separate from sexual preference. Or do I have to show you how to search Google for that?

Apparently, you like bright happy transgendered children when they're on TV but heaven forbid they grow up and march in a parade.

Please stop hiding behind a pretense of education and experience when your posts clearly scream ignorance. less

Sexual orientation is put on parade because queer people historically and currently are oppressed. "Sleeping habits"? Since when did being gay or lesbian be just about fucking and not include falling in love, holding hands, or wanting to form a family and have kids?

So you're not ok with a parade that includes gay parents, ministers, teachers, doctors, and soldiers, within and supported by their community. Yet you're not offended by anyone creating an anonymous online persona and posting dozens of messages espousing a love of buttsex. less

Honest, Dv8, I don't want a fight here with anyone. I think we all have different opinions on things and this site can only be fun if we respect those differences of opinion and maybe, once in a while, expand out minds a bit and realize that ours may not be the "only" correct way of thinking. Can we agree on that? less

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that dv8 posted the image to show that there are trans- people in existence, in your face, around you, everywhere. Claiming ignorance because you "haven't met" someone with that attribute is honestly just poor discussion skills. I haven't met anyone with klinefelter's syndrome, but I still know what it is and how to respect it (just as an example).

I am astounded that with being a well-educated and supposedly well-read individual, Bignuf, that you lack the education of trans- and intersex individuals (which, though I mention them in the same sentence, are completely different).

dv8 mentioned something important, and that is that you are relating being trans- to being gay or lesbian, when gender identity and romantic/sexual orientation have nothing to do with each other. Gender identity is how a person relates to the world around them and within themselves as they understand their gender to be. Romantic or sexual orientation is what a person is attracted to romantically or sexually in their relationships.

I still would like to repeat the idea I mentioned earlier, and that is to stop pitying people who are different or variant. We're sick of it. We're tired and annoyed that people pat us on the back for simply being gay, lesbian, trans-, DIFFERENT. Honestly, we just want to be left alone. I'm glad that you feel inspired, but kindly shove it, maybe anally if that's what you prefer. We're not here to inspire you, we're here for the same reason that you are - to live.

I'm not going to attack you personally, Bignuf, because I do not see a point or purpose. I am simply giving you information that is true. You can disagree with me and dv8 all you want, but that does not change the truth of what we say. Getting defensive over it does not change what is real. less

I also posted the link to the pictures to show that trans people are of all sorts, kinkster and vanilla, flamboyant and shy, queens and bois, and even people who blend right in. Furthermore, many of the parade signs echo the issues and challenges that trans people face; although that topic was mentioned in the original post, Bignuf's reaction to a social display of trans pride reveal her true character. Her posts reflect an "us vs. them" mentality, treating people outside her norm as "other". less