How do you feel about the term "Cisgender?"

Contributor: Xarien Xarien
Quote:
Originally posted by bodymodboy
Guess what? You're cis. So your opinion on the trans community, thusly, doesn't count. My "cause"? It's my life. A life isn't a cause.
You just don't understand what it's like being normal and getting bitched at by trans people all the time.

Your comment was about as narrow and closed minded as that one was. In my opinion, it's people like you that the OP was referring to. In your mind, it's not that the term CIS was instated just because we needed a label (that much I would understand)...But to you, it's just a way to separate yourself from any other community that could even pretend to understand you. You need that sense of self entitlement that comes from being different than the norm. You WANT to draw the attention to the differences between cis and trans* because that's the only way you'd feel special. It's in this way that CIS becomes that very negative word.

Also, You're trans so your opinion of the cis community, thusly, doesn't count.
  •   (1)
    I am personally offended by this
  •   (1)
    This is unacceptable / Against the Expectations of Conduct
10/22/2012
Contributor: moongirl moongirl
Quote:
Originally posted by Xarien
You just don't understand what it's like being normal and getting bitched at by trans people all the time.

Your comment was about as narrow and closed minded as that one was. In my opinion, it's people like you that the OP was ... more
Cheers, my friend.
10/22/2012
Contributor: pestilence pestilence
Quote:
Originally posted by MidnightStorm
The first time I encountered the word "cisgender" (frequently abbreviated "cis") was like a slap in the face to me and every time I heard it used after that it continued to rub me the wrong way. While I don't exactly feel that ... more
"Cisgender" is a descriptive term, and a fairly intuitive counterpart to "transgender." Having a word to describe cis people is important because the most commonly-used counterpart to "transgender" I've seen is "normal" - and since there are plenty of cisgender people who are anything but normal, using such a general term is worthless.

Honestly, seeing people offended merely at the existence of the word "cisgender" reminds me of people who get weirded out when physical descriptions of people mention them being white, as if race is something that should only be mentioned if they're something out of the "norm."
10/22/2012
Contributor: Llewey Llewey
Quote:
Originally posted by MidnightStorm
I'm going to do a generalized sort of response -- I wish more people who disliked the label would have commented because I suspected that people who DO support it would be more likely to get up in arms over its usage. And that's fair: ... more
By your logic, OP, then labels in general should not exist. Sure the whole "we're all humans!" line seems nice, but honestly it makes life more convenient to have labels to describe groups of people with a common trait. Additionally, most people enjoy touting labels. They ARE necessary, and the fact you are terrified by the prospect of non-trans people having a scholarly label to describe them is -- sorry -- extremely reflective of cisgender privilege. From what I'm hearing, you just sound upset because you're so used to being considered normal that you're frightened by having a label attached to you. Should society call you "normal"? No, you ARE cisgender. In the same way you are your skin color, or your eye color, or your sexuality.... you are cisgender. It's a word that helps transfolk better describe their community and society.

I'll agree with you that you can SYMPATHIZE with trans people, but no, you will never truly understand what it's like. Again, sorry, this statement that it's unfair that you're told you can't is reflective of privilege. In the same way I shall never understand what it's like to be cisgender, or be Hispanic, or anything outside the realm of my personal experiences.

Being "offended" by the term cisgender is silly, to be completely honest. It's such a sterile and clinical term: Should I get offended when someone says "homosexuals" ; ; in a negative way (it happens a lot!) and bitch about how unfair it is that the word homosexual even exists? No, because I understand there will always be dissidents and combative people rallying against ANYTHING.
To note: trans people do not want your pity. I cannot speak for all trans people of course, but I'm willing to bet most simply want some empathy and support. But, again, no you will never understand exactly what it's like. And as a cisgender person compared to a trans person, you -do- "have it so easy."

To address your final high-horse-tastic point, you... do know people who use labels to conveniently describe groups of like individuals understand we are all human, right? But here's the great thing about human beings: the incredible amount of diversity inherent in such a large population. More often than not, labels are used for groups of people to celebrate their differences and try to foster understanding to the non-'X' world. The GLBT movement NEEDS those labels to effectively get across who they are as a community and what they stand for.

If you feel like battle lines are being drawn, that's because you're in the middle of a major civil rights movement. It's inevitable. If you're unable to see people as being "simply human" if they so choose to use labels to describe themselves, then that sounds like a problem on your end. To sum up, your whole crusade against the pretty toothless categorizations of different groups of people is frankly ridiculous and counter to basic human nature and how societies/alliances/co mmunities are formed. If a minority is oppressed, then they -will- identify the reason for their oppression and give it a name, if it's not already been prescribed to them.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Llewey Llewey
Quote:
Originally posted by pestilence
"Cisgender" is a descriptive term, and a fairly intuitive counterpart to "transgender." Having a word to describe cis people is important because the most commonly-used counterpart to "transgender" I've seen is ... more
I'll +1 this.
This is an interesting discussion.
10/22/2012
Contributor: MidnightStorm MidnightStorm
Quote:
Originally posted by Llewey
By your logic, OP, then labels in general should not exist. Sure the whole "we're all humans!" line seems nice, but honestly it makes life more convenient to have labels to describe groups of people with a common trait. Additionally, ... more
Again, you are a person who refuses to acknowledge that some people are using the term "cisgender" is a derogatory way. To make things clearer: in my life, people are only using the word cisgender in a derogatory way. If people had only used "transgender" ; ; in a derogatory way in your life, I imagine you would feel the same. It has little do with "privilege" (a word which I am also quickly becoming convinced is equally disgusting) and everything to do with my experiences and opinion of the word. Cisgender is not an inherently sterile OR scientific word. A committee of scientists did not sit down and say; "Hey, we really need a word to describe this group of people... Let's use this one." A single person made it up on the internet 20+ years ago. A bit of research will reveal that quickly enough.

@Weee had the best post I've seen so far regarding the idea of labels. Since I can't double-quote:
"a person can choose to refer to themselves however they want.
it is not okay to make dumbass statements using any identifier, be it (non)gender, sexuality, romantic inclination or anything else.

people are indeed people. whether they are cis, trans, tall, orange, white, a lawyer. this is a fact.

but it is not fair to say 'lol labels are dumb you don't need labels you are all people.' you are taking away that persons right to have a label. do not force your beliefs on someone. if they want to identify with a label or tag or whatever they want to call it, they can."

That's fair. A person does have a right to have a label and it isn't entirely fair of me to dictate what a person can or cannot call themselves. However, it isn't fair for another community to begin labeling ME just because they feel the need to--nor do I have to accept that label as correct or perfect. Again, my argument isn't just that "cis" is largely used in a derogatory way, but also that "cis" blocks out entire groups of people because in short, using the terms "cisgender" and "transgender" ; ; insinuate that gender is as simple to understand as: "You are transgender or you are not transgender." There is an entire spectrum of gender that falls in between those realms and I think most people would find that they don't really fit the term "cis" if they had taken the time to look in to it.

And to make another point that I couldn't have said better myself, @butts:
"Just a small comment; There's a big difference between whole-heartedly UNDERSTANDING someone's issue/whatnot, and having EXPERIENCED it first hand. Sometimes people CAN'T experience other's issues first hand, but they can understand them through education and open minds, people can be empathetic and sympathetic to other's issues without personally GOING THROUGH them. People forget this a lot, especially in the trans community."

I can understand pain, hating my body, not wanting to be in my body, being judged for what I like or don't like, etc... Nope, I don't know what it's like to want a penis when I have boobs (or vice versa). And if you make the argument that transgender isn't that simple, you're right: it includes all the things I mentioned above, too. Those are human things. Everyone can understand them.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Llewey Llewey
You've seemingly failed to read my original post in this thread. I acknowledged that the word is used negatively, in the same way the word "homosexual" is almost always used derogatorily (gay people say "gay") Also, don't say "again" when you haven't brought up a point directed at me before.

You're wrong, by the way. If people used the word "transgender" in only a negative way, I would still have no problem with it. Why? Because the word transgender quickly and easily (to a pretty good degree of accuracy) defines a group of people in our society. Cisgender, as a word, is just as toothless as heterosexual or bisexual are. Grow some thicker skin.
I'm assuming you're a femme bisexual cis-female. Out of the entire GLBT family, you have some of the most mild societal repercussions. I'm not saying you get off scot-free, but it's certainly a better position than a transwoman who is attracted to men, or a transman taking T to physically transition.

The origin of the word "cisgender" matters not. Since you seem to be having some trouble with this concept, let's break it down:
(cis) Prefix, Latin: meaning "on the same side of"
(gender) Noun: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

As demonstrated, it's a sterile and objective word, and -some- negative uses of it comes guaranteed with any group of people in society. Your confirmation bias and anecdotal experience honestly mean nothing when talking about the word's place around the world.

"However, it isn't fair for another community to begin labeling ME just because they feel the need to--nor do I have to accept that label as correct or perfect."
Yes it is, actually. The word on its own is demonstrably not "dirty" or hateful and thus is not justifiably objectionable; deal with it. You can reject the label, but if the shoe fits...

"Again, my argument isn't just that 'cis' is largely used in a derogatory way, but also that "cis" blocks out entire groups of people because in short, using the terms "cisgender" and "transgender" insinuate that gender is as simple to understand as: 'You are transgender or you are not transgender.'"
Actually, transgender is an EXTREMELY broad term. Look it up. In short, all "transgender" implies is that a person does not agree with or fit society's prescribed gender roles based on their physical sex. Sure there is a range: unfortunately for your argument, the general consensus seems to be that anything "not cis" is a variation of transgender. From that point forward, it is totally up to the transgender person to whether they wish to elaborate of their gender identity or not.
Transgender != transsexual.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Bex1331 Bex1331
I like cisgender about as much as I like any other label, which is to say not very much. No one fits 100% within any label but the type of society we are needs to quantify and qualify everything and it comes to a point where we do need words to describe ourselves and others and I think "cisgender" fits the bill nicely, otherwise we're left with what alternatives? Are we gonna start saying "well she's a real girl?" Like any label this can be used positively or negatively but I think as of now this is one of the best options we've got.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Xarien Xarien
Quote:
Originally posted by Llewey
You've seemingly failed to read my original post in this thread. I acknowledged that the word is used negatively, in the same way the word "homosexual" is almost always used derogatorily (gay people say "gay") Also, don't ... more
"Out of the entire GLBT family, you have some of the most mild societal repercussions. I'm not saying you get off scot-free, but it's certainly a better position than a transwoman who is attracted to men, or a transman taking T to physically transition"

Who exactly do you think you are to say this? Do you truly not believe that there are still places where a bi/gay person is treated just as badly as a trans* person? Do you think there's a lot of people out there that say "Oh, he's gay and I'm okay with that...But Transexual people? Oh hell no, that's where I draw the line." We're at a stage in our society now where typically a person is either okay with both things or neither to varying degrees.

It's pretty egotistical to say if one group has it worse than the other. If both groups can still lay claim to suicides due to bullying and beatings in recent times, they both win...Or lose, depending on how you look at it.

As for "The origin of the word doesn't matter", you're mostly right. The true, original origins of a word don't matter. But how society uses such words does. Let's take the history of what we've called African Americans throughout the USA. Originally, it was "Nigger", which isn't innately a derogatory word. It comes from the Latin word, "niger", meaning "black". But we clearly used it in a derogatory way for so long that look at the state of that word now. Negro was the same way. Originally the spanish/portugese word for black.

So you're right, one could make the argument that the origins of a word truly don't matter...But I counter that with the fact that how a word is continiously used matters. If the Trans* community at large continues to use it in a derogatory way, then I say it has a pretty high chance of joining the words that SHOULDN'T be offensive, but are.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Llewey Llewey
Quote:
Originally posted by Xarien
"Out of the entire GLBT family, you have some of the most mild societal repercussions. I'm not saying you get off scot-free, but it's certainly a better position than a transwoman who is attracted to men, or a transman taking T to ... more
There is a lot more stigma of being transgender than there is for being bisexual. This much should be obvious in our (meaning USA's) society. Of course there are some places where it's worse (trans person in San Francisco vs. bisexual teenager in Tennessee), but I'd assume the bi person being trans in the same location would create more issues for the individual. As to your question, yes, throughout my life I've been surrounded by gay allies -- even gay people themselves -- who were extremely transphobic and cissexist.

You're absolutely right that we all win or lose as one. But pointing out as a general rule that transgendered people have worse social backlash than a cisgender LGB in the same location doesn't really undermine this. It's an observation.

Since the N-word was intentionally perverted for use as a racial slur, while "cisgender" is simply a classification, I don't think that's completely a fair comparison. It'd be more fair to say African Americans and Cisgender. If everyone kept saying "African Americans" as a bad thing I don't think the phrase itself would ever become dirty.

Now, to be fair, if transfolk begin calling cisgendered people "cisheads" or some other silly clearly disdainful name, I could see your point against that new word being used mainly as a slur. How I see it, by comparison, is that "straight" is not a slur, but "breeder" is. I hope you see what I'm saying as far as that goes.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Alrighty folks, this is starting to get a little heated. Let's all step back and try to remember what the discussion is originally about, please and thank you!

Personal attacks are not acceptable at Edenfantasys, nor is putting words into another's mouth. Play nice or don't play at all.
10/22/2012
Contributor: hyacinthgirl hyacinthgirl
I've seen 'cisgendered' used in insulting contexts, mostly by the types of GLBTQ people who worship at the altar of victimhood, and believe that their suffering defines their worth as human beings (there are plenty of people of every stripe who are members of the victim cult), so they must be insulting about everyone who is not like them. Why? Because some people are petty drama addicts who don't believe that other people think and feel. It's the same whenever a group of high school athletes calls a socially awkward kid a "retarded faggot", whether that kid is developmentally delayed, learning disabled, homosexual, bisexual, or anything beyond not an athlete in that group's particular sport. Preying on the "Other" solidifies the "Group", and that's a major part of human nature. Even people who have been on the receiving end of some really nasty after effects of "otherness" aren't immune.

In the case of it being used in an insulting context, I'm for the "Hey, guys, we're all people, and there's no need to be so aggressive towards people who have nothing against you, or towards people who are trying to be supportive of you". I think everyone needs to be reminded of that from time to time, because it is so easy to slip into Us vs. Them.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Xarien Xarien
Quote:
Originally posted by Llewey
There is a lot more stigma of being transgender than there is for being bisexual. This much should be obvious in our (meaning USA's) society. Of course there are some places where it's worse (trans person in San Francisco vs. bisexual ... more
I don't agree that there is more of a stigma for being transgender than there is for being bisexual/gay. I feel as long as neither are truly accepted by society 100%, anything said along of lines of "We have it worse!" is entirely subjective and based on opinion. You can't sit here and prove it as undeniable fact one way or the other.

And I will agree with you that "cisgender" is a classification that shouldn't be taken offensively and for the most part I have no problem with it. Humans and society NEED to label things, that's just what we do. But labels can be perverted into something negative. For example, someone in an earlier post said "You're cis, your opinion on the trans community doesn't count"...That's disrespectful and I feel that is a case where I SHOULD take offense to the word. I don't think a new phrase like "cisheads" needs to be implemented for it to be offensive.

Take the word "gay"...It's a pretty spot on term--you're sexually attracted to people of the same sex as you. But if someone is talking about something that they dislike or is unfair and shout out "Oh that's gay!", I think that's a great example for how a label becomes something other than a label. It doesn't have to be new, it's all about context and with a fairly new word like cisgender, one has to be careful with the context they use it in because it can very easily become something is was never meant to be.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Jesyra Jesyra
I could be wrong here, but I think the OPs original issue is that she's being assigned a label to which she doesn't believe she entirely fits, but doesn't identify as transgender either. And she feels that the label is being assigned, not merely to express a defineable trait, but to point out in a negative fashion that they believe her gender and assigned sex conform.

@OP - If this summary is correct:
1) Stop taking labels so personally. Until someone personally and intentionally insults you, it's best to not let them insult you.

2) If you don't identify as transgender and you don't believe you're cisgender, you can point out to those who label you that you believe you are genderfluid, or pangender, or some other term that better encompasses what you believe you are. But in all honesty, labels mean exactly nothing in the scheme of things; they do not give you special powers or change who you are, whether correctly or incorrectly applied, so pick one, or refuse to pick one, or make a new one up.

And to the people who act like it requires a trans person to understand how hard it can be to be a trans person. Bull. All it requires is time with a trans person and some empathy to get how absoltuely messed up it can be. Does that mean I know your exact emotions and thoughts? Of course not, but if we had the same surgery at the same age on the same day at the same hospital by the same doctor you still could not tell me exactly what I felt or thought. Stop acting like it takes a trans person to have a clue how difficult it can be.

I am married to a trans person. I will admit it's easier for me - I can set the problems aside from time to time and not have to think about it, but that doesn't mean I don't deal with the reality of transgender life on a day to day basis. I deal with the stares, the ugly comments, the wide berths just like you do. I've been chewed out and called a whore and satanspawn and a dozen other nasty things over the phone for asking if a company was trans-friendly. I get that it sucks. Am I in your head to know your every thought and feeling? No, but I am in my husbands. He shares everything with me, from happiness to doubts to self-loathing. The moments where he wants to be a woman fully and the ones where he's glad he was born a male and even more where he's torn between the two and unsure how he can want to change his sex and keep it at the same time. And I do everything in my power to make it better and I promise you I would not be half as good as helping him stay sane and happy if I didn't understand what he was feeling. My husband is my other half, and when my other half is conflicted and in pain, so am I. When my other half is so frusterated that she wants to cry, or furious because of the hate, I feel it too. You do not have a monopoly on this knowledge. Plenty of cis people share a trans persons life, with all its ups, down, and hate-spewing bigots. So how dare you say, because I'm happy with the sex I was assigned in utero, that I cannot possibly understand your difficulties?
10/22/2012
Contributor: sexfairy sexfairy
I've never heard that term before, maybe just because I am originally a french speaker...?
10/22/2012
Contributor: Llewey Llewey
Quote:
Originally posted by Jesyra
I could be wrong here, but I think the OPs original issue is that she's being assigned a label to which she doesn't believe she entirely fits, but doesn't identify as transgender either. And she feels that the label is being assigned, not ... more
Thank you. I'm not sure if you were referring to me in your post, but I'd like to make clear that I do believe cisgender people can understand and sympathize with transgender people. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

A cisgender person cannot experience what it's like in -exactly- the same way, but that is to be expected and not at all necessary in order to be supportive and understanding. Your perspective as the wife of a transgendered person is very valuable. It's important to be reminded that the partners of trans individuals can share the same hardships and unfair hate.

You sound like a great partner! It's nice to know people like you are out there.
10/22/2012
Contributor: MidnightStorm MidnightStorm
Quote:
Originally posted by sexfairy
I've never heard that term before, maybe just because I am originally a french speaker...?
That's very possible, sexfairy. It's actually not a term that I hear a lot, and if I was not at least marginally involved with the GLBTQ community in my area, I don't think I would have heard it either.
10/22/2012
Contributor: bodymodboy bodymodboy
Quote:
Originally posted by sexfairy
I've never heard that term before, maybe just because I am originally a french speaker...?
The term admittedly started in America; there has yet to be a true equivalent in romance languages, however I do pronounce cisgender with a Portuguese accent.
10/22/2012
Contributor: bodymodboy bodymodboy
Lord knows why I am bothering, but here are a few resources for people who are still refusing to get it.

link
link

And because people are forgetting that Queer People of Color and Trans* People of Color have it a lot worse than white counterparts, here is a few other things:

link
link
link
10/22/2012
Contributor: Xarien Xarien
Quote:
Originally posted by bodymodboy
Lord knows why I am bothering, but here are a few resources for people who are still refusing to get it.

link
link

And because people are forgetting that Queer People of Color and Trans* People of Color have it a lot worse than white ... more
You make it sound like a contest.

"Tonight on Who Hates Who The Most, we have in the red corner our white Transsexual male facing off against the blue corner, the hispanic Transsexual male! Who can garner the most hatred? Find out tonight at 8."

Also, those links clearly aren't the least bit biased.
10/22/2012
Contributor: bodymodboy bodymodboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Xarien
You make it sound like a contest.

"Tonight on Who Hates Who The Most, we have in the red corner our white Transsexual male facing off against the blue corner, the hispanic Transsexual male! Who can garner the most hatred? Find out tonight ... more
I'm sorry, but are you denying white privilege? And have you heard NOTHING of something called intersectionality? Or the matrix of oppression? Have you ever read a book that wasn't written by some white cis male, really?
10/22/2012
Contributor: Xarien Xarien
Quote:
Originally posted by bodymodboy
I'm sorry, but are you denying white privilege? And have you heard NOTHING of something called intersectionality? Or the matrix of oppression? Have you ever read a book that wasn't written by some white cis male, really?
Sorry, this was my mistake...I must have forgotten that this thread was about the term "cisgender" and not about the color of my skin or anyone else's.
10/22/2012
Contributor: bodymodboy bodymodboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Xarien
Sorry, this was my mistake...I must have forgotten that this thread was about the term "cisgender" and not about the color of my skin or anyone else's.
I think you need to do some intense googling.

THERE ARE CIS PEOPLE OF COLOR AND TRANS PEOPLE OF COLOR.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Xarien Xarien
Quote:
Originally posted by bodymodboy
I think you need to do some intense googling.

THERE ARE CIS PEOPLE OF COLOR AND TRANS PEOPLE OF COLOR.
No one ever said there wasn't. My confusion lies in what that has to do with "white privilege".
10/22/2012
Contributor: bodymodboy bodymodboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Xarien
No one ever said there wasn't. My confusion lies in what that has to do with "white privilege".
Because WHITE QUEER PEOPLE HAVE WHITE PRIVILEGE OVER TRANS* PEOPLE OF COLOR SUCH AS THE EXAMPLE OF THE OP.

My GOD how obtuse are you? I am getting out of this thread, forums are never a trans* friendly place.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Llewey Llewey
The problematic thing about "privilege" the way most people use it is that the people being considered generally -cannot help- the way society gives them preferential treatment. I refuse to call people privileged just to make them feel guilty about their gender, sexuality, skin color, or what-have-you. I am white. I cannot help this fact, but I still do my best to support all people in achieving true equality.

When I personally refer to someone as having "privilege," I mean that the person is a bystander to the poorer treatment of minorities, are inexcusably ignorant of minority issues, or are actively (intentionally or not) working to undermine the progress of equal rights for all people. So to me really a "privileged" person is just A-OK with the way they are personally treated, and can't be arsed to help others around them gain the rights they deserve.

Saying "privilege" as those links suggest seems like a whiny and pointless undertaking.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
Evidently, my warning wasn't heeded.

This thread has been closed for the next 24 hours. I appreciate everyone who has played respectfully, but we need a cooling off period here.
10/22/2012
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
The thread has been reopened. I hope we can continue this discussion in a calm and respectful manner.

If you feel you cannot participate in a calm manner, please refrain from doing so. Anyone who becomes disrespectful will face disciplinary actions including, but not limited to, having one's discussion service suspended.

Make us proud and have a great night!
10/23/2012
Contributor: charletnarouh charletnarouh
The term "cisgender,' to me, while imperfect, is a word that explains a situation that would be awkward to explain otherwise. I am a cisgender lesbian woman, among other things! I have so many labels, sometimes I forget some of them, and each of them help me define myself, my space in the world, and my way of relating to others, but I digress. I think the term "cisgender" can help where some more ignorant folks might be inclined to call someone born to the sex they identify with a "real" man or woman, thus implying, even without meaning to, that trans*, intersex, etc. men and women aren't "real" which is hurtful and ignorant but sometimes people don't know any better. Giving them a word that means what they are trying to say can help prevent this unfortunate, painful faux pas. I think "cis" is better than "bio" or "biological" which makes it sound clinical and medical. It's a situation that we NEED words and explanations for. It's hard for some folks to wrap their heads around the myriad sex and gender combinations. Naming or labeling something helps us understand it and relate to it and makes us feel more comfortable with it. "Cisgender" is a term that can be used in a hurtful and unfortunate manner but, for me, it gives a relatively accurate and elegant label for something that desperately needs one and I'll use it until or unless someone gives me a better alternative.
10/23/2012
Contributor: smlove smlove
I started looking at it in terms of biology and what you present as. If you have XY chromosomes, but are a girl, then you're an XY girl. I'm an XX woman, and my wife is an XY woman. We are the same gender, but not the same sex; if that makes sense. so there can be XX Men and XY Men and everything in between.
I didn't like thinking about things that if it's a problem for a man, then it will be a problem for my wife. Then my brain wrapped itself around the biology, and began to understand that XY people have these components and therefore these health problems. and XX people have other components and therefore other health problems. and then were are XXY peoples too. I know an XXY girl. She was born with male parts, but felt female. however, biologically she's intersexed. So she could be considered trans, but it's a bit more complicated than that. Instead, she's an XXY woman to me.
I know that doesn't cover the whole gamut, because some people prefer neither man nor woman monikers, and that's fine too. just ask each person what their preference is if you're not sure.
10/29/2012