Today I submitted a review in which I described the use of a toy on my partner who is FTM. I described using the toy during oral sex, stating:

"It is nice for rubbing the labia/clit of my female-bodied partner, as well as tease HIR g-spot. My partner prefers pulsation to straight vibration patterns, and ZE actually really enjoyed a couple of the pulsation patterns of the Goddess."

I deliberately choose to use "hir" and "ze" as alternative pronouns to her/she because my partner is not a woman. I also didn't want to confuse the reader by using him/he immediately following my statements that I used the toy on female anatomy. When the review was published, my words were changed to "her" and "we", but this post is not to complain about that change.

Instead I request that alternative pronouns be recognized by Eden when submitted in reviews. I would also like to see transgendered people, or their lovers, or just people who understand the nature of alternative pronouns, chime in with other alternative pronouns/suggestions here on this thread.

This could serve to educate so that if a reader sees "hir" in a review, that reader might understand it isn't necessarily a typo.

You see, that may seem like a very little thing to some of you: Being called "he" or "she", but to someone who is called the wrong pronoun on a daily basis it is a very big deal. My partner reads the reviews I write. He already has to deal with the majority of the world calling him "she/her", so it would be nice if here, in a "sex positive community", that could be avoided. less

I've never heard "ze" before. I don't really understand why "we" would need an alternate pronoun.
He, she, him, her... those all assume gender.
We doesn't.

I'm confused!

Any chance you'd clarify if you have a chance? I'm very close to quite a few mtf transgendered folks and those of my acquaintance usually prefer to be called by the pronoun they're transitioning to. A better understanding of those who feel differently would really be awesome. less

"Ze" was meant to take the place of "he" in my review.

I use he/him/his on a daily basis when referring to my partner.

As I said above, the problem is how to reconcile those male pronouns in REVIEWS with descriptions of toy use on a female body part.

I like DBD's suggestion, but I'm not quite sure how to incorporate it in what I wrote above.

Would this make sense to people... "It is nice for rubbing the labia/clit of my female-bodied partner, as well as tease HIR (his) g-spot. My partner prefers pulsation to straight vibration patterns, and ZE (he)actually really enjoyed a couple of the pulsation patterns..."??? less

"Ze" was meant to take the place of "he" in my review.

I use he/him/his on a daily basis when referring to my partner.

As I said above, the problem is how to reconcile those male pronouns in REVIEWS with descriptions of toy use on a female body part.

I like DBD's suggestion, but I'm not quite sure how to incorporate it in what I wrote above.

Would this make sense to people... "It is nice for rubbing the labia/clit of my female-bodied partner, as well as tease HIR (his) g-spot. My partner prefers pulsation to straight vibration patterns, and ZE (he)actually really enjoyed a couple of the pulsation patterns..."??? less

You know...
For most people, even open minded people without some basic description "somewhere" of your partner's sexual status/sexuality, everything is going to be so confusing that most people go HUH???

Factually, most relationships are a either male/female, male/male or female/female. Then people understand mixes and multiples. People just are not familiar with transgender.

You might need to say, "My female partner, who was born male..." (or something similar. Then your above statement makes more sense. I read it, and went "labia/clit" - OK, "female-bodied partner" - little confused, but doesn't matter to me. "his g-spot" and then - "HIS" "G-spot"?? off to check some facts. Don't women have g-spot, and men have prostrate stimulation. (Same thing.) At first it just didn't make sense to me, and read like you didn't know what you were talking about.

Maybe it's just me, but I think I need more context to truly understand and appreciate the flavor of your review without getting lost. Even in a sex-positive environment. It's a very complicated subject. less

What a great post this is. I am disappointed that Eden changed the pronouns on you, and I hope someone from Eden will take stock of this post and stop changing them in your reviews (I think you should email them as well to make sure they realize what happened).

This is quite the dilemma, I agree. I DEFINITELY do not think you should stop using the alternative pronouns. To those of us who know that they are alternative pronouns, they immediately signal that you are talking about a transperson (whereas "he" and "him" would not). The issue, of course, is people who do not know about these alternative pronouns and what they denote. I would like to think that in a community such as this one, they would not confuse a lot of people... but I think I am wrong. Many people just don't know much about transpeople, even if they consider themselves sex-positive.

I see a couple of ways you could go about this. One would be to explain your partner in each review. The first time you mention your partner, you could explain in parentheses something like this: (my partner is a FTM transman, hereafter referred to by the alternative pronouns 'hir' and 'ze'). It would be tedious, but it would give people a direct explanation so they can't whine about the "confusing" pronouns. Another thing you could do would be to include this info in your profile as well.

I think the "hir (his)" idea that you proposed would be confusing to people. Of course, in a perfect world, people would read "his" and not immediately think of male genitalia, but that's not going to happen quite yet. I think specifying that he is a transman would be useful to readers. And if they don't know what a transman is or what alternative pronouns are, they can freaking Google them. less

DBD, Cinnamon Chambers, Carrie, & Liz2:
I'm glad you are open to learning about alternative pronouns and that you get something from this thread - which confirms to me this thread has a value reaching outside my own issues with writing. Thank you.

If Eden will allow it, I will try to use Epiphora's suggestion to link up alternative pronouns to that people can click on them to see what I am attempting to convey by their usage. That's a great idea.

I would still like to hear from some of the transgendered community members, or their mates, with thoughts on the best way to handle these issues. I am, by no means, the ultimate authority on the matter. In fact, my relationship is only a couple of months old. less

I think that the idea of writing "his labia (my partner is a trans man--born with female bits but lives as a dude)"--or something like that-- makes the most sense, in terms of both showing sensitivity to your partner's preferred pronouns and to the knowledge level of most readers. You can just use it the first time you mention your partner in each review, and that way anyone reading won't be confused by any later pronouns.

The problem I foresee with using hir and ze--and there will be an article in Sexis about this soon, though I don't think it's up yet-- is that those are alternative pronouns, not actually male pronouns. So the people in the trans community who use those pronouns don't identify as men (as it sounds like your partner may)but as something other than man or woman. That's why they don't use he/his OR she/hers (I'm sure lots of folks know this stuff, but bear with me for the greater good, yeah?).

Many identify as genderqueer (somewhere on the spectrum of gender but not close enough to man or woman to claim it) and many others don't identify as a gender label at all. I think that by using those in a review, you would confuse the people who didn't know enough to see them as anything but typos and mislead the people who did into thinking that your partner didn't claim male pronouns.

As a trans guy, I'd always prefer to be referred to by male pronouns. I'd also always prefer to refer to my genitalia by words other than the medical ones of labia/clitoris/vagina/ whatever. With that said, it's tough, right? Because most of the readers wouldn't get what I wrote if I used some of the words that I have for thinking about my own parts. So these reviews are always compromise, figuring out how to respect the trans person without being confusing--major kudos for being sensitive enough to try. less

I think that the idea of writing "his labia (my partner is a trans man--born with female bits but lives as a dude)"--or something like that-- makes the most sense, in terms of both showing sensitivity to your partner's preferred pronouns and to the knowledge level of most readers. You can just use it the first time you mention your partner in each review, and that way anyone reading won't be confused by any later pronouns.

The problem I foresee with using hir and ze--and there will be an article in Sexis about this soon, though I don't think it's up yet-- is that those are alternative pronouns, not actually male pronouns. So the people in the trans community who use those pronouns don't identify as men (as it sounds like your partner may)but as something other than man or woman. That's why they don't use he/his OR she/hers (I'm sure lots of folks know this stuff, but bear with me for the greater good, yeah?).

Many identify as genderqueer (somewhere on the spectrum of gender but not close enough to man or woman to claim it) and many others don't identify as a gender label at all. I think that by using those in a review, you would confuse the people who didn't know enough to see them as anything but typos and mislead the people who did into thinking that your partner didn't claim male pronouns.

As a trans guy, I'd always prefer to be referred to by male pronouns. I'd also always prefer to refer to my genitalia by words other than the medical ones of labia/clitoris/vagina/ whatever. With that said, it's tough, right? Because most of the readers wouldn't get what I wrote if I used some of the words that I have for thinking about my own parts. So these reviews are always compromise, figuring out how to respect the trans person without being confusing--major kudos for being sensitive enough to try. less

First, let me say: We will absolutely support alternative pronouns and links to them. Our auto-spellchecker did not recognize the words and changed them. I apologize for the confusion, although it seems that it’s understood that is why they were changed. We are adding them to the list here to avoid future word changes.

Second, I think a wonderful discourse has come out of this thread. So many honest opinions have been shared and it seems a lot of eyes have been opened. I am really inspired by the level of openness here. Thank you to everyone who took the time to explain to others and thank you to everyone who openly admitted they were not familiar. The interaction and educating within this community is amazing. less

Pink: I definitely understood why the words were changed and I'm not upset about that or anything.

I am also really pleased this thread has been a source of information about a subject that is very real to some of the EF community members, while other members didn't even know the issue existed.

I hope all EF members feel comfortable in contributing to this thread if they have questions or suggestions on review writing with these issues in mind.

This thread really does reaffirm why I stay with Eden. less

First, let me say: We will absolutely support alternative pronouns and links to them. Our auto-spellchecker did not recognize the words and changed them. I apologize for the confusion, although it seems that it’s understood that is why they were changed. We are adding them to the list here to avoid future word changes.

Second, I think a wonderful discourse has come out of this thread. So many honest opinions have been shared and it seems a lot of eyes have been opened. I am really inspired by the level of openness here. Thank you to everyone who took the time to explain to others and thank you to everyone who openly admitted they were not familiar. The interaction and educating within this community is amazing. less

Wow... How did I miss this thread the first time around?

Regardless, I learned a lot by reading through the posts. I am aware of transgendered folks, but I was not aware that there are alternative pronouns for some of them. Most of what I know I gathered from Julie Anne Peters' novel "Luna", in which a girl has to learn how to accept and support her MTF brother. In that book, it is noted that MTF individuals prefer the feminine pronouns while FTM prefer masculine pronouns. Are there special cases in which neither pronoun is acceptable for the individual, so the person chooses this alternative pronoun?

Time to hit the wiki tree and see what falls out! less

I think that the idea of writing "his labia (my partner is a trans man--born with female bits but lives as a dude)"--or something like that-- makes the most sense, in terms of both showing sensitivity to your partner's preferred pronouns and to the knowledge level of most readers. You can just use it the first time you mention your partner in each review, and that way anyone reading won't be confused by any later pronouns.

The problem I foresee with using hir and ze--and there will be an article in Sexis about this soon, though I don't think it's up yet-- is that those are alternative pronouns, not actually male pronouns. So the people in the trans community who use those pronouns don't identify as men (as it sounds like your partner may)but as something other than man or woman. That's why they don't use he/his OR she/hers (I'm sure lots of folks know this stuff, but bear with me for the greater good, yeah?).

Many identify as genderqueer (somewhere on the spectrum of gender but not close enough to man or woman to claim it) and many others don't identify as a gender label at all. I think that by using those in a review, you would confuse the people who didn't know enough to see them as anything but typos and mislead the people who did into thinking that your partner didn't claim male pronouns.

As a trans guy, I'd always prefer to be referred to by male pronouns. I'd also always prefer to refer to my genitalia by words other than the medical ones of labia/clitoris/vagina/ whatever. With that said, it's tough, right? Because most of the readers wouldn't get what I wrote if I used some of the words that I have for thinking about my own parts. So these reviews are always compromise, figuring out how to respect the trans person without being confusing--major kudos for being sensitive enough to try. less

Today I submitted a review in which I described the use of a toy on my partner who is FTM. I described using the toy during oral sex, stating:

"It is nice for rubbing the labia/clit of my female-bodied partner, as well as tease HIR g-spot. My partner prefers pulsation to straight vibration patterns, and ZE actually really enjoyed a couple of the pulsation patterns of the Goddess."

I deliberately choose to use "hir" and "ze" as alternative pronouns to her/she because my partner is not a woman. I also didn't want to confuse the reader by using him/he immediately following my statements that I used the toy on female anatomy. When the review was published, my words were changed to "her" and "we", but this post is not to complain about that change.

Instead I request that alternative pronouns be recognized by Eden when submitted in reviews. I would also like to see transgendered people, or their lovers, or just people who understand the nature of alternative pronouns, chime in with other alternative pronouns/suggestions here on this thread.

This could serve to educate so that if a reader sees "hir" in a review, that reader might understand it isn't necessarily a typo.

You see, that may seem like a very little thing to some of you: Being called "he" or "she", but to someone who is called the wrong pronoun on a daily basis it is a very big deal. My partner reads the reviews I write. He already has to deal with the majority of the world calling him "she/her", so it would be nice if here, in a "sex positive community", that could be avoided. less

Wow... How did I miss this thread the first time around?

Regardless, I learned a lot by reading through the posts. I am aware of transgendered folks, but I was not aware that there are alternative pronouns for some of them. Most of what I know I gathered from Julie Anne Peters' novel "Luna", in which a girl has to learn how to accept and support her MTF brother. In that book, it is noted that MTF individuals prefer the feminine pronouns while FTM prefer masculine pronouns. Are there special cases in which neither pronoun is acceptable for the individual, so the person chooses this alternative pronoun?

Time to hit the wiki tree and see what falls out! less