Some LGB folk believe the T shouldn't be included, because it's about gender while LGB is all about sexuality. What is your opinion?
Should the T in LGBT seperate?
12/11/2012
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It is and it isn't. You know?
12/12/2012
I think that people of all sexuality/genders should support each other. Separating from the community isn't a positive, but rather, a negative way of identifying with your identity. The "LGBT" community or "LGBTQIA community" should be inclusive of all peoples who don't fit in in dominant cultural circles, who feel ostracized or alone. Kicking our trans* peoples, or making them feel as less desirable, to have in the community, will harm many peoples view of themselves.
Many people in the community are there to make friends, and garner support. This is not a community based solely on sexuality, anyone who feels that they are in a gender minority can also find friends/support.
What would be the point of having an entirely separate trans* society, further ostracizing people based on their gender/sexuality? I think it is a bad idea, we are already a small community and don't need to further divide.
Many people in the community are there to make friends, and garner support. This is not a community based solely on sexuality, anyone who feels that they are in a gender minority can also find friends/support.
What would be the point of having an entirely separate trans* society, further ostracizing people based on their gender/sexuality? I think it is a bad idea, we are already a small community and don't need to further divide.
12/12/2012
Quote:
I agree. I feel like the LGBT etc community is about supporting eachother when society tries to put you into a box you don't belong in. For the first three they don't fit into the sexuality box they are 'supposed to,' and the Trans people don't fit into the gender box they are 'supposed to.' They all fight for the right to be who you are no matter what society thinks about it, and I think that they have many of the same issues.
Originally posted by
Katelyn
I think that people of all sexuality/genders should support each other. Separating from the community isn't a positive, but rather, a negative way of identifying with your identity. The "LGBT" community or "LGBTQIA community"
...
more
I think that people of all sexuality/genders should support each other. Separating from the community isn't a positive, but rather, a negative way of identifying with your identity. The "LGBT" community or "LGBTQIA community" should be inclusive of all peoples who don't fit in in dominant cultural circles, who feel ostracized or alone. Kicking our trans* peoples, or making them feel as less desirable, to have in the community, will harm many peoples view of themselves.
Many people in the community are there to make friends, and garner support. This is not a community based solely on sexuality, anyone who feels that they are in a gender minority can also find friends/support.
What would be the point of having an entirely separate trans* society, further ostracizing people based on their gender/sexuality? I think it is a bad idea, we are already a small community and don't need to further divide. less
Many people in the community are there to make friends, and garner support. This is not a community based solely on sexuality, anyone who feels that they are in a gender minority can also find friends/support.
What would be the point of having an entirely separate trans* society, further ostracizing people based on their gender/sexuality? I think it is a bad idea, we are already a small community and don't need to further divide. less
I also think that Trans people get shoved into a homosexual box pretty often. If you're a female bodied male (heterosexual mentally) dating a female, the states won't let you marry her because you have an XX chromosome pair.
If you're a female bodied male (homosexual mentally) you still will get beef for dating your 'real' gender, and being seen as a homosexual by the community. It seems like a lose-lose situation, and that a win for either the L, G, B, or T of the acronym is a step forward for the whole demographic.
12/12/2012
I'm pretty certain the L-G community near me wants to cut out B and T alike. I think it's wrong to do that. I think ALL discrimination should end.
12/12/2012
Yes it should. Being transsexual is not related to sexual orientation at all. It shouldn't be grouped together like that.
12/12/2012
I think the more you change the acronym, the more you confuse people, and the more you pick apart things that matter less than the whole point of having such a movement, which is to fight for an end to sexual discrimination, no matter what it's form.
12/12/2012
Quote:
This. We've already got enough enemies. We can't take them on without friends and allies who have at least something vaguely in common with us.
Originally posted by
Katelyn
I think that people of all sexuality/genders should support each other. Separating from the community isn't a positive, but rather, a negative way of identifying with your identity. The "LGBT" community or "LGBTQIA community"
...
more
I think that people of all sexuality/genders should support each other. Separating from the community isn't a positive, but rather, a negative way of identifying with your identity. The "LGBT" community or "LGBTQIA community" should be inclusive of all peoples who don't fit in in dominant cultural circles, who feel ostracized or alone. Kicking our trans* peoples, or making them feel as less desirable, to have in the community, will harm many peoples view of themselves.
Many people in the community are there to make friends, and garner support. This is not a community based solely on sexuality, anyone who feels that they are in a gender minority can also find friends/support.
What would be the point of having an entirely separate trans* society, further ostracizing people based on their gender/sexuality? I think it is a bad idea, we are already a small community and don't need to further divide. less
Many people in the community are there to make friends, and garner support. This is not a community based solely on sexuality, anyone who feels that they are in a gender minority can also find friends/support.
What would be the point of having an entirely separate trans* society, further ostracizing people based on their gender/sexuality? I think it is a bad idea, we are already a small community and don't need to further divide. less
12/12/2012
Quote:
Life is already hard. Dividing won't make it any easier. No one should feel more alone than they already do. The reason the umbrella term exists is because many peoples feel alone, and having a minority status is easier to handle when you can feel the comfort of belonging to a larger group. Everyone should be welcome withing the community, including allys.
Originally posted by
GONE!
This. We've already got enough enemies. We can't take them on without friends and allies who have at least something vaguely in common with us.
12/12/2012
Logically LGB all make sense together, and there is some reasonable argument that by including Trans in that grouping it only continues to conflate gender/sexual orientation.
At the same time, Trans* people have been typically the most marginalized/misunders tood group of the whole bunch and do not need yet another group excluding them. Until that hurdle has been cleared I don't see any benefit to excluding the T from LGBT. There's plenty to be gained from collaboration.
At the same time, Trans* people have been typically the most marginalized/misunders tood group of the whole bunch and do not need yet another group excluding them. Until that hurdle has been cleared I don't see any benefit to excluding the T from LGBT. There's plenty to be gained from collaboration.
12/12/2012
I feel that there is no reason T shouldn't be involved in the LGBT.
12/12/2012
Quote:
I think it should.
Originally posted by
tony
Some LGB folk believe the T shouldn't be included, because it's about gender while LGB is all about sexuality. What is your opinion?
Bisexual people also should be.
It's about SUPPORT, not further driving a wedge.
12/12/2012
It should definitely be separate. Transsexualism is a medical condition and has nothing to do with sexuality. People lumping us in with the LGB community furthers the belief that transsexuals transition for a sexual reason.
12/12/2012
I can see the merit of the argument that T is about gender versus sexuality for LGB.
But--I can also see the merit of the argument that dividing the community weakens it. The symbol of gay pride is the rainbow flag, chosen because it represents inclusiveness.
If anything, we need a bigger tent, not a smaller one.
But--I can also see the merit of the argument that dividing the community weakens it. The symbol of gay pride is the rainbow flag, chosen because it represents inclusiveness.
If anything, we need a bigger tent, not a smaller one.
12/13/2012
I think the LGBT acronym really becomes problematic when the rest of society lumps it with sexual orientations "straight people vs. lgbt people", thus making trans folk further invisible. But when I think of the community I'm apart of, gender and sexuality are so intricately linked that I couldn't see them separately.
12/13/2012
I'm not trans, so maybe I shouldn't be commenting because I can't 100% relate--but shouldn't we all just work together to fight all discrimination?
12/13/2012
Quote:
sure, but that's not what's being asked here. you know? this is a specific question about a specific issue within a specific community.
Originally posted by
Reynolds
I'm not trans, so maybe I shouldn't be commenting because I can't 100% relate--but shouldn't we all just work together to fight all discrimination?
12/13/2012
Quote:
If LGBT is for inclusiveness, why doesn't it include everyone? Because people want support and to be around people like themselves.
Originally posted by
spiced
I can see the merit of the argument that T is about gender versus sexuality for LGB.
But--I can also see the merit of the argument that dividing the community weakens it. The symbol of gay pride is the rainbow flag, chosen because it ... more
But--I can also see the merit of the argument that dividing the community weakens it. The symbol of gay pride is the rainbow flag, chosen because it ... more
I can see the merit of the argument that T is about gender versus sexuality for LGB.
But--I can also see the merit of the argument that dividing the community weakens it. The symbol of gay pride is the rainbow flag, chosen because it represents inclusiveness.
If anything, we need a bigger tent, not a smaller one. less
But--I can also see the merit of the argument that dividing the community weakens it. The symbol of gay pride is the rainbow flag, chosen because it represents inclusiveness.
If anything, we need a bigger tent, not a smaller one. less
Lesbian, gay, and bisexual go together. Being trans is nothing like those things.
12/13/2012
Quote:
that's an incredibly ahistorical argument, though, and it also ignores the realities and lives of many trans people, and the position of both LGB and trans people in our homophobic, transphobic society.
Originally posted by
needapacker
If LGBT is for inclusiveness, why doesn't it include everyone? Because people want support and to be around people like themselves.
Lesbian, gay, and bisexual go together. Being trans is nothing like those things.
Lesbian, gay, and bisexual go together. Being trans is nothing like those things.
it's very difficult, a lot of the time, to tell where homophobia ends and transphobia begins. the two oppressions certainly are not the same, but they're interconnected in very specific ways, and it's foolish to say "well, gender and sexual orientation aren't the same thing, so the two communities have nothing to do with each other!" because of course they do. half the time the people who attack us, ostracize us, discriminate against us, and otherwise express their hatred of us don't know which letter of the initialism we represent, and they don't care. and the trans community was a crucial part of the beginning of the gay rights movement, and the two are still very much connected.
like, i understand what you're saying, but your argument is completely divorced from the actual, practical realities of many LGB and trans people.
12/13/2012
Quote:
The do have shared history, but they still shouldn't be lumped together.
Originally posted by
hanjonatan
that's an incredibly ahistorical argument, though, and it also ignores the realities and lives of many trans people, and the position of both LGB and trans people in our homophobic, transphobic society.
it's very difficult, a lot of ... more
it's very difficult, a lot of ... more
that's an incredibly ahistorical argument, though, and it also ignores the realities and lives of many trans people, and the position of both LGB and trans people in our homophobic, transphobic society.
it's very difficult, a lot of the time, to tell where homophobia ends and transphobia begins. the two oppressions certainly are not the same, but they're interconnected in very specific ways, and it's foolish to say "well, gender and sexual orientation aren't the same thing, so the two communities have nothing to do with each other!" because of course they do. half the time the people who attack us, ostracize us, discriminate against us, and otherwise express their hatred of us don't know which letter of the initialism we represent, and they don't care. and the trans community was a crucial part of the beginning of the gay rights movement, and the two are still very much connected.
like, i understand what you're saying, but your argument is completely divorced from the actual, practical realities of many LGB and trans people. less
it's very difficult, a lot of the time, to tell where homophobia ends and transphobia begins. the two oppressions certainly are not the same, but they're interconnected in very specific ways, and it's foolish to say "well, gender and sexual orientation aren't the same thing, so the two communities have nothing to do with each other!" because of course they do. half the time the people who attack us, ostracize us, discriminate against us, and otherwise express their hatred of us don't know which letter of the initialism we represent, and they don't care. and the trans community was a crucial part of the beginning of the gay rights movement, and the two are still very much connected.
like, i understand what you're saying, but your argument is completely divorced from the actual, practical realities of many LGB and trans people. less
When most straight cis people hear LGBT, they hear gay. Trans isn't gay.
Maybe for political reasons they should keep T in the acronym, to make getting equal rights easier, but logically they should be separate.
12/14/2012
Quote:
yeah, but that "logic" is based entirely in, like, this theoretical idea of what it means to be trans vs what it means to be LGB, which rarely corresponds with how that pans out for lgb and trans people.
Originally posted by
needapacker
The do have shared history, but they still shouldn't be lumped together.
When most straight cis people hear LGBT, they hear gay. Trans isn't gay.
Maybe for political reasons they should keep T in the acronym, to make getting equal ... more
When most straight cis people hear LGBT, they hear gay. Trans isn't gay.
Maybe for political reasons they should keep T in the acronym, to make getting equal ... more
The do have shared history, but they still shouldn't be lumped together.
When most straight cis people hear LGBT, they hear gay. Trans isn't gay.
Maybe for political reasons they should keep T in the acronym, to make getting equal rights easier, but logically they should be separate. less
When most straight cis people hear LGBT, they hear gay. Trans isn't gay.
Maybe for political reasons they should keep T in the acronym, to make getting equal rights easier, but logically they should be separate. less
like, what would you accomplish by separating the LGB from the T? would you advocate for services - homeless youth shelters, for example - only being made available for one or the other? do you want to go a couple steps backwards and actively encourage organisations that now finally include trans people and their rights on their agendas to stop that so no one gets confused and thinks they're the same?
the reality is, the LGB and the T are inextricably linked in the lives of many people who fall under one (or two) letters in the acronym, and the challenges we face are very often similar and require similar solutions.
like, i'm just not seeing what you'd hope to actually accomplish, in practical terms, by separating the first three letters from the fourth. there's nothing saying that because the acronym exists as it is now, you have to use all four letters every time you talk about an issue pertaining to one or the other.
12/14/2012
Quote:
I see your point, But the thing is, being on that acronym doesn't really help trans people. Many non-descrimination acts (that I know of, I can name at least 4) that's proposed for LGBT people, don't get passed unless they drop trans from it. We fight for gay rights, but they're all too quick to leave us behind to get what they want. I'm all for equality and working together, but that's not really what happens.
Originally posted by
hanjonatan
yeah, but that "logic" is based entirely in, like, this theoretical idea of what it means to be trans vs what it means to be LGB, which rarely corresponds with how that pans out for lgb and trans people.
like, what would you ... more
like, what would you ... more
yeah, but that "logic" is based entirely in, like, this theoretical idea of what it means to be trans vs what it means to be LGB, which rarely corresponds with how that pans out for lgb and trans people.
like, what would you accomplish by separating the LGB from the T? would you advocate for services - homeless youth shelters, for example - only being made available for one or the other? do you want to go a couple steps backwards and actively encourage organisations that now finally include trans people and their rights on their agendas to stop that so no one gets confused and thinks they're the same?
the reality is, the LGB and the T are inextricably linked in the lives of many people who fall under one (or two) letters in the acronym, and the challenges we face are very often similar and require similar solutions.
like, i'm just not seeing what you'd hope to actually accomplish, in practical terms, by separating the first three letters from the fourth. there's nothing saying that because the acronym exists as it is now, you have to use all four letters every time you talk about an issue pertaining to one or the other. less
like, what would you accomplish by separating the LGB from the T? would you advocate for services - homeless youth shelters, for example - only being made available for one or the other? do you want to go a couple steps backwards and actively encourage organisations that now finally include trans people and their rights on their agendas to stop that so no one gets confused and thinks they're the same?
the reality is, the LGB and the T are inextricably linked in the lives of many people who fall under one (or two) letters in the acronym, and the challenges we face are very often similar and require similar solutions.
like, i'm just not seeing what you'd hope to actually accomplish, in practical terms, by separating the first three letters from the fourth. there's nothing saying that because the acronym exists as it is now, you have to use all four letters every time you talk about an issue pertaining to one or the other. less
Places considered safe spaces for LGBT are mainly just safe spaces for gay people. If that's what they're going to be anyway, what's the point in including trans folk?
The only thing trans people and gay people share is discrimination. We also share that with people of color, non-christians, women (to a certain extent), and so many others. We should either stick to ourselves, or have every oppressed group work together (which probably just isn't going to happen).
12/14/2012
Quote:
Really well put, I agree.
Originally posted by
Katelyn
I think that people of all sexuality/genders should support each other. Separating from the community isn't a positive, but rather, a negative way of identifying with your identity. The "LGBT" community or "LGBTQIA community"
...
more
I think that people of all sexuality/genders should support each other. Separating from the community isn't a positive, but rather, a negative way of identifying with your identity. The "LGBT" community or "LGBTQIA community" should be inclusive of all peoples who don't fit in in dominant cultural circles, who feel ostracized or alone. Kicking our trans* peoples, or making them feel as less desirable, to have in the community, will harm many peoples view of themselves.
Many people in the community are there to make friends, and garner support. This is not a community based solely on sexuality, anyone who feels that they are in a gender minority can also find friends/support.
What would be the point of having an entirely separate trans* society, further ostracizing people based on their gender/sexuality? I think it is a bad idea, we are already a small community and don't need to further divide. less
Many people in the community are there to make friends, and garner support. This is not a community based solely on sexuality, anyone who feels that they are in a gender minority can also find friends/support.
What would be the point of having an entirely separate trans* society, further ostracizing people based on their gender/sexuality? I think it is a bad idea, we are already a small community and don't need to further divide. less
12/15/2012
Quote:
Well put.
Originally posted by
needapacker
I see your point, But the thing is, being on that acronym doesn't really help trans people. Many non-descrimination acts (that I know of, I can name at least 4) that's proposed for LGBT people, don't get passed unless they drop trans from
...
more
I see your point, But the thing is, being on that acronym doesn't really help trans people. Many non-descrimination acts (that I know of, I can name at least 4) that's proposed for LGBT people, don't get passed unless they drop trans from it. We fight for gay rights, but they're all too quick to leave us behind to get what they want. I'm all for equality and working together, but that's not really what happens.
Places considered safe spaces for LGBT are mainly just safe spaces for gay people. If that's what they're going to be anyway, what's the point in including trans folk?
The only thing trans people and gay people share is discrimination. We also share that with people of color, non-christians, women (to a certain extent), and so many others. We should either stick to ourselves, or have every oppressed group work together (which probably just isn't going to happen). less
Places considered safe spaces for LGBT are mainly just safe spaces for gay people. If that's what they're going to be anyway, what's the point in including trans folk?
The only thing trans people and gay people share is discrimination. We also share that with people of color, non-christians, women (to a certain extent), and so many others. We should either stick to ourselves, or have every oppressed group work together (which probably just isn't going to happen). less
12/15/2012
Even though there are completely straight transgenders/ transsexuals. NO! Because they deal with similar issues of degradation.
01/10/2013
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Unique posters: 18