I'm just becoming acquainted with ze and hir, and would like to integrate into my vocabulary. I'm curious about how/if others use them.
If you are not transgendered, do you still use the alternative pronouns?
01/26/2012
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I'm not comfortable using them, yet.
01/26/2012
If someone identifies as male, I call them a "he, his, him" if they identify as female I call them "she, her, hers" I don't use other terms. The people I know who are trans don't use them either, they just use the terms that describe what they identify with.
01/26/2012
Quote:
Precisely. I don't understand where or why or how the alternative pronouns came to be and all they do is confuse me.
Originally posted by
P'Gell
If someone identifies as male, I call them a "he, his, him" if they identify as female I call them "she, her, hers" I don't use other terms. The people I know who are trans don't use them either, they just use the terms
...
more
If someone identifies as male, I call them a "he, his, him" if they identify as female I call them "she, her, hers" I don't use other terms. The people I know who are trans don't use them either, they just use the terms that describe what they identify with.
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Would anyone care to explain it so that I can try to understand it? I've only seen two people use them. It was in another internet forum and they were just ultra-politically correct people all of the time so I chalked it up to them being "hip and cool" since neither of them are/were trans* or knew people who were. It was like they just picked it up and ran with it and tossed it out every chance they could just to make themselves seem evolved.
01/26/2012
I had never even heard of these before. I don't think I would use them because I think it might get a little confuing.
01/26/2012
I usually just pluralize to make everything gender neutral. eg. Their, they
01/26/2012
From what I understand, there are some people who consider themselves intersex, genderfluid, or 'third sex' ie not male OR female, and those are the people I have seen use them. By intersex I do not mean people born with ambiguous genitalia, I mean people who consider themselves to be a mix or blend of the sexes mentally or spiritually and do not identify with either more strongly on a long term basis.
Me personally, I consider myself to be transgendered and self identify as a male, and while I am very uncomfortable with others viewing me as female or feminine I do sometimes consider myself to have certain traits of a woman, likely just from being socially delegated into that role for so long, but I would never use an 'other' pronoun, and I prefer people to recognize me as male.
Me personally, I consider myself to be transgendered and self identify as a male, and while I am very uncomfortable with others viewing me as female or feminine I do sometimes consider myself to have certain traits of a woman, likely just from being socially delegated into that role for so long, but I would never use an 'other' pronoun, and I prefer people to recognize me as male.
01/26/2012
I use the pronoun that the person I am communicating with prefers.
01/26/2012
I'm not very comfortable using terminology for which I don't fully understand, so I try to address people by what they prefer to be addressed by. If somebody specifically wanted me to use those pronouns, I would do my best to keep up with them, but otherwise I would prefer not to use them.
01/26/2012
I have never used them. I have never met any transgendered or genderfluid people (as far as I know) and I have never heard anyone use these words before, so I really don't know much about it. Like Sam said, I would use whatever pronoun someone preferred to be addressed as, but the situation hasn't come up for me yet.
01/26/2012
I haven't had any people in the realy world who prefer alternative pronouns. I often do use, however, Mix. when using Miss, Mrs, or Mister. It's easy enough to slip in, without much notice.
01/26/2012
Quote:
Pretty much the same here too.
Originally posted by
Jul!a
I'm not very comfortable using terminology for which I don't fully understand, so I try to address people by what they prefer to be addressed by. If somebody specifically wanted me to use those pronouns, I would do my best to keep up with
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more
I'm not very comfortable using terminology for which I don't fully understand, so I try to address people by what they prefer to be addressed by. If somebody specifically wanted me to use those pronouns, I would do my best to keep up with them, but otherwise I would prefer not to use them.
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I have no idea what "ze" and "hir" mean.
01/26/2012
Not everyone identified with the gender binary. Not everyone identifies as male or female.
I used to think that "alternative" pronouns were awkward and unusual, then someone told me if I just tried using them, they'd become more natural - and they were right.
The pronouns don't "mean" anything. They're just alternatives to "he" or "she" while not being as dehumanising as "it".
I used to think that "alternative" pronouns were awkward and unusual, then someone told me if I just tried using them, they'd become more natural - and they were right.
The pronouns don't "mean" anything. They're just alternatives to "he" or "she" while not being as dehumanising as "it".
01/26/2012
Quote:
your profile on eden has you listed as female! just held the mouse over your avatar and saw that. you may want to change it if being identified as female makes you uncomfortable.
Originally posted by
eroticmutt
From what I understand, there are some people who consider themselves intersex, genderfluid, or 'third sex' ie not male OR female, and those are the people I have seen use them. By intersex I do not mean people born with ambiguous genitalia,
...
more
From what I understand, there are some people who consider themselves intersex, genderfluid, or 'third sex' ie not male OR female, and those are the people I have seen use them. By intersex I do not mean people born with ambiguous genitalia, I mean people who consider themselves to be a mix or blend of the sexes mentally or spiritually and do not identify with either more strongly on a long term basis.
Me personally, I consider myself to be transgendered and self identify as a male, and while I am very uncomfortable with others viewing me as female or feminine I do sometimes consider myself to have certain traits of a woman, likely just from being socially delegated into that role for so long, but I would never use an 'other' pronoun, and I prefer people to recognize me as male. less
Me personally, I consider myself to be transgendered and self identify as a male, and while I am very uncomfortable with others viewing me as female or feminine I do sometimes consider myself to have certain traits of a woman, likely just from being socially delegated into that role for so long, but I would never use an 'other' pronoun, and I prefer people to recognize me as male. less
01/26/2012
Quote:
What's an alternative pronoun?
Originally posted by
Entropy
I'm just becoming acquainted with ze and hir, and would like to integrate into my vocabulary. I'm curious about how/if others use them.
01/26/2012
I use 'their' or the pronoun they want to be identified as. I get too confused otherwise.
02/06/2012
I use whatever pronouns the individual wants me to use for them. If I don't know, I use they/their/etc.
02/06/2012
To explain Ze and Hir to people who've never heard them before, from my personal experience;
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around there, sometimes genderfluids and genderqueers as well. This is just from what I've seen personally, I've also seen one or two transmen refer to themselves as ze for unknown reasons. I've also seen a few cisfemales refer to themselves as Ze, mostly to throw the whole "I hate lables so I made myself a label" crap around. Honestly I like Ze more than "they" or "it", which a lot of people find highly offensive, but I definitely wouldn't refer to myself as Ze. Not only because I identify as male, but I think it'd be confusing, as people who aren't familiar with the term may think your name/nickname is Ze, not your preferred pronoun.
Hir is a bit more specific and usually refers to hermaphrodites*, intersexed people and shemales** (don't rage at me yet). I've RARELY seen people refer to themselves as hir, and it's usually fetishists referring to their persons of interest. This is seen -a lot- in fetish art communities and porn, I don't think many people use this one in normal conversation about themselves. I've never seen this used for "pussyboys/cuntboys/cb oys"*** (sometimes what post-mastectomy pre-bottom surgery FtMs are referred to as, especially in porn) though, as in people with a vagina but no breasts (usually masculine identified), it seems to be specific to those with breasts and a penis (at least). If you (anyone who reads this) prefer to be referred to as hir, please don't be offended by my post, this information is solely based off of my experience in the GLBTQ and various online art communities. If you do, I'd love to hear about it! I've yet to meet someone who uses that pronoun for themselves
* hermaphrodites, as in the outdated term for insersexed folk, people who are either between sexes or have both sexes genitalia.
** shemales, the term for usually feminine people with breasts and a penis but no vagina, mostly used in porn. Most people find this term pretty offensive, but I have yet to hear of anyone recommend something better (or hear complaints from people who ARE "shemales"), so I'm not sure what to think about it. This is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transwomen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
*** pussyboys/cuntboys/cbo ys, like stated above, someone usually masculine identified with no breasts but has a vagina, this is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transmen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
I tried to keep this post as un-offensive as possible while still covering everything, if I did offend someone somehow, my apologies. I'm in no way bashing or promoting the use of any of these terms, people should be called what they want to be called and that's that.
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around there, sometimes genderfluids and genderqueers as well. This is just from what I've seen personally, I've also seen one or two transmen refer to themselves as ze for unknown reasons. I've also seen a few cisfemales refer to themselves as Ze, mostly to throw the whole "I hate lables so I made myself a label" crap around. Honestly I like Ze more than "they" or "it", which a lot of people find highly offensive, but I definitely wouldn't refer to myself as Ze. Not only because I identify as male, but I think it'd be confusing, as people who aren't familiar with the term may think your name/nickname is Ze, not your preferred pronoun.
Hir is a bit more specific and usually refers to hermaphrodites*, intersexed people and shemales** (don't rage at me yet). I've RARELY seen people refer to themselves as hir, and it's usually fetishists referring to their persons of interest. This is seen -a lot- in fetish art communities and porn, I don't think many people use this one in normal conversation about themselves. I've never seen this used for "pussyboys/cuntboys/cb oys"*** (sometimes what post-mastectomy pre-bottom surgery FtMs are referred to as, especially in porn) though, as in people with a vagina but no breasts (usually masculine identified), it seems to be specific to those with breasts and a penis (at least). If you (anyone who reads this) prefer to be referred to as hir, please don't be offended by my post, this information is solely based off of my experience in the GLBTQ and various online art communities. If you do, I'd love to hear about it! I've yet to meet someone who uses that pronoun for themselves
* hermaphrodites, as in the outdated term for insersexed folk, people who are either between sexes or have both sexes genitalia.
** shemales, the term for usually feminine people with breasts and a penis but no vagina, mostly used in porn. Most people find this term pretty offensive, but I have yet to hear of anyone recommend something better (or hear complaints from people who ARE "shemales"), so I'm not sure what to think about it. This is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transwomen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
*** pussyboys/cuntboys/cbo ys, like stated above, someone usually masculine identified with no breasts but has a vagina, this is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transmen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
I tried to keep this post as un-offensive as possible while still covering everything, if I did offend someone somehow, my apologies. I'm in no way bashing or promoting the use of any of these terms, people should be called what they want to be called and that's that.
02/18/2012
Quote:
Thanks for clearing that all up!
Originally posted by
butts
To explain Ze and Hir to people who've never heard them before, from my personal experience;
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around ... more
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around ... more
To explain Ze and Hir to people who've never heard them before, from my personal experience;
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around there, sometimes genderfluids and genderqueers as well. This is just from what I've seen personally, I've also seen one or two transmen refer to themselves as ze for unknown reasons. I've also seen a few cisfemales refer to themselves as Ze, mostly to throw the whole "I hate lables so I made myself a label" crap around. Honestly I like Ze more than "they" or "it", which a lot of people find highly offensive, but I definitely wouldn't refer to myself as Ze. Not only because I identify as male, but I think it'd be confusing, as people who aren't familiar with the term may think your name/nickname is Ze, not your preferred pronoun.
Hir is a bit more specific and usually refers to hermaphrodites*, intersexed people and shemales** (don't rage at me yet). I've RARELY seen people refer to themselves as hir, and it's usually fetishists referring to their persons of interest. This is seen -a lot- in fetish art communities and porn, I don't think many people use this one in normal conversation about themselves. I've never seen this used for "pussyboys/cuntboys/cb oys"*** (sometimes what post-mastectomy pre-bottom surgery FtMs are referred to as, especially in porn) though, as in people with a vagina but no breasts (usually masculine identified), it seems to be specific to those with breasts and a penis (at least). If you (anyone who reads this) prefer to be referred to as hir, please don't be offended by my post, this information is solely based off of my experience in the GLBTQ and various online art communities. If you do, I'd love to hear about it! I've yet to meet someone who uses that pronoun for themselves
* hermaphrodites, as in the outdated term for insersexed folk, people who are either between sexes or have both sexes genitalia.
** shemales, the term for usually feminine people with breasts and a penis but no vagina, mostly used in porn. Most people find this term pretty offensive, but I have yet to hear of anyone recommend something better (or hear complaints from people who ARE "shemales"), so I'm not sure what to think about it. This is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transwomen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
*** pussyboys/cuntboys/cbo ys, like stated above, someone usually masculine identified with no breasts but has a vagina, this is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transmen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
I tried to keep this post as un-offensive as possible while still covering everything, if I did offend someone somehow, my apologies. I'm in no way bashing or promoting the use of any of these terms, people should be called what they want to be called and that's that. less
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around there, sometimes genderfluids and genderqueers as well. This is just from what I've seen personally, I've also seen one or two transmen refer to themselves as ze for unknown reasons. I've also seen a few cisfemales refer to themselves as Ze, mostly to throw the whole "I hate lables so I made myself a label" crap around. Honestly I like Ze more than "they" or "it", which a lot of people find highly offensive, but I definitely wouldn't refer to myself as Ze. Not only because I identify as male, but I think it'd be confusing, as people who aren't familiar with the term may think your name/nickname is Ze, not your preferred pronoun.
Hir is a bit more specific and usually refers to hermaphrodites*, intersexed people and shemales** (don't rage at me yet). I've RARELY seen people refer to themselves as hir, and it's usually fetishists referring to their persons of interest. This is seen -a lot- in fetish art communities and porn, I don't think many people use this one in normal conversation about themselves. I've never seen this used for "pussyboys/cuntboys/cb oys"*** (sometimes what post-mastectomy pre-bottom surgery FtMs are referred to as, especially in porn) though, as in people with a vagina but no breasts (usually masculine identified), it seems to be specific to those with breasts and a penis (at least). If you (anyone who reads this) prefer to be referred to as hir, please don't be offended by my post, this information is solely based off of my experience in the GLBTQ and various online art communities. If you do, I'd love to hear about it! I've yet to meet someone who uses that pronoun for themselves
* hermaphrodites, as in the outdated term for insersexed folk, people who are either between sexes or have both sexes genitalia.
** shemales, the term for usually feminine people with breasts and a penis but no vagina, mostly used in porn. Most people find this term pretty offensive, but I have yet to hear of anyone recommend something better (or hear complaints from people who ARE "shemales"), so I'm not sure what to think about it. This is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transwomen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
*** pussyboys/cuntboys/cbo ys, like stated above, someone usually masculine identified with no breasts but has a vagina, this is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transmen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
I tried to keep this post as un-offensive as possible while still covering everything, if I did offend someone somehow, my apologies. I'm in no way bashing or promoting the use of any of these terms, people should be called what they want to be called and that's that. less
I get what you were saying, but it still is unusual to me (Could you imagine a time when all of this become "old-hat"?). I'm sure things will be easier to understand ten, fifteen years down the road.
For those last three names, I avoid using them anyway.
02/19/2012
butts: "hir" is a possessive pronoun that is usually paired with "ze." Instead of "him or "her." So you wouldn't hear someone refer to themselves as "hir," because it's posessive, not a subject pronoun like he/she/ze.
02/19/2012
Quote:
Really! I haven't really heard it outside the art community but it's interesting to hear that it's used with ze, I wouldn't have guessed.
Originally posted by
Roz W
butts: "hir" is a possessive pronoun that is usually paired with "ze." Instead of "him or "her." So you wouldn't hear someone refer to themselves as "hir," because it's posessive, not a subject pronoun like he/she/ze.
02/20/2012
I'll happily use any pronoun the individual I'm addressing or talking about would prefer.
02/21/2012
I use them if the person prefers them, of course. I will not use them if the person is unidentified, I will instead ask. I do not use pronouns unless I am sure and know the person's preferred set.
03/02/2012
I always try to use "they" for /everyone/
and I've yet to meet someone who specifically asks for alt. pronouns
But if/when I do, I'll gladly try to accommodate
and I've yet to meet someone who specifically asks for alt. pronouns
But if/when I do, I'll gladly try to accommodate
03/07/2012
Quote:
Hearing "Ze and Hir" sort of sounds like and used like german pronouns to me.
Originally posted by
butts
To explain Ze and Hir to people who've never heard them before, from my personal experience;
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around ... more
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around ... more
To explain Ze and Hir to people who've never heard them before, from my personal experience;
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around there, sometimes genderfluids and genderqueers as well. This is just from what I've seen personally, I've also seen one or two transmen refer to themselves as ze for unknown reasons. I've also seen a few cisfemales refer to themselves as Ze, mostly to throw the whole "I hate lables so I made myself a label" crap around. Honestly I like Ze more than "they" or "it", which a lot of people find highly offensive, but I definitely wouldn't refer to myself as Ze. Not only because I identify as male, but I think it'd be confusing, as people who aren't familiar with the term may think your name/nickname is Ze, not your preferred pronoun.
Hir is a bit more specific and usually refers to hermaphrodites*, intersexed people and shemales** (don't rage at me yet). I've RARELY seen people refer to themselves as hir, and it's usually fetishists referring to their persons of interest. This is seen -a lot- in fetish art communities and porn, I don't think many people use this one in normal conversation about themselves. I've never seen this used for "pussyboys/cuntboys/cb oys"*** (sometimes what post-mastectomy pre-bottom surgery FtMs are referred to as, especially in porn) though, as in people with a vagina but no breasts (usually masculine identified), it seems to be specific to those with breasts and a penis (at least). If you (anyone who reads this) prefer to be referred to as hir, please don't be offended by my post, this information is solely based off of my experience in the GLBTQ and various online art communities. If you do, I'd love to hear about it! I've yet to meet someone who uses that pronoun for themselves
* hermaphrodites, as in the outdated term for insersexed folk, people who are either between sexes or have both sexes genitalia.
** shemales, the term for usually feminine people with breasts and a penis but no vagina, mostly used in porn. Most people find this term pretty offensive, but I have yet to hear of anyone recommend something better (or hear complaints from people who ARE "shemales"), so I'm not sure what to think about it. This is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transwomen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
*** pussyboys/cuntboys/cbo ys, like stated above, someone usually masculine identified with no breasts but has a vagina, this is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transmen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
I tried to keep this post as un-offensive as possible while still covering everything, if I did offend someone somehow, my apologies. I'm in no way bashing or promoting the use of any of these terms, people should be called what they want to be called and that's that. less
Ze is typically used for 3rd gender or any other non-male/non-female identifying people, such as gender-neutrals, agenders, and everything around there, sometimes genderfluids and genderqueers as well. This is just from what I've seen personally, I've also seen one or two transmen refer to themselves as ze for unknown reasons. I've also seen a few cisfemales refer to themselves as Ze, mostly to throw the whole "I hate lables so I made myself a label" crap around. Honestly I like Ze more than "they" or "it", which a lot of people find highly offensive, but I definitely wouldn't refer to myself as Ze. Not only because I identify as male, but I think it'd be confusing, as people who aren't familiar with the term may think your name/nickname is Ze, not your preferred pronoun.
Hir is a bit more specific and usually refers to hermaphrodites*, intersexed people and shemales** (don't rage at me yet). I've RARELY seen people refer to themselves as hir, and it's usually fetishists referring to their persons of interest. This is seen -a lot- in fetish art communities and porn, I don't think many people use this one in normal conversation about themselves. I've never seen this used for "pussyboys/cuntboys/cb oys"*** (sometimes what post-mastectomy pre-bottom surgery FtMs are referred to as, especially in porn) though, as in people with a vagina but no breasts (usually masculine identified), it seems to be specific to those with breasts and a penis (at least). If you (anyone who reads this) prefer to be referred to as hir, please don't be offended by my post, this information is solely based off of my experience in the GLBTQ and various online art communities. If you do, I'd love to hear about it! I've yet to meet someone who uses that pronoun for themselves
* hermaphrodites, as in the outdated term for insersexed folk, people who are either between sexes or have both sexes genitalia.
** shemales, the term for usually feminine people with breasts and a penis but no vagina, mostly used in porn. Most people find this term pretty offensive, but I have yet to hear of anyone recommend something better (or hear complaints from people who ARE "shemales"), so I'm not sure what to think about it. This is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transwomen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
*** pussyboys/cuntboys/cbo ys, like stated above, someone usually masculine identified with no breasts but has a vagina, this is NOT the correct term for pre-bottom surgery transmen unless they SPECIFICALLY say they prefer it!
I tried to keep this post as un-offensive as possible while still covering everything, if I did offend someone somehow, my apologies. I'm in no way bashing or promoting the use of any of these terms, people should be called what they want to be called and that's that. less
03/08/2012
I have knowledge of these 'ze' and 'hir' but, to me, it sounds and feels like I've got phlegm stuck in my throat when I use them, and I refer to people whose gender I don't know with they/them/their/theirs . I'm trans* myself, but still don't find the appeal of ze/hir/etc.
03/08/2012
Quote:
Wir danken gleich...
Originally posted by
RonLee
Hearing "Ze and Hir" sort of sounds like and used like german pronouns to me.
03/08/2012
I've never met someone who uses alternative pronouns, and I don't, but if I met someone who wanted me to use them I would try my best to make them comfortable.
03/08/2012
Quote:
No, I normally use they or them instead. Ze and hir are just very awkward sounding in my head, while they is already established as acceptable is just something I'm used to. If someone would rather be called ze/hir, I'll go ahead and use those pronouns, but for now I just stick to they until I'm told otherwise.
Originally posted by
Entropy
I'm just becoming acquainted with ze and hir, and would like to integrate into my vocabulary. I'm curious about how/if others use them.
03/09/2012
I've never heard anyone use alternate pronouns before. I just use whatever pronoun the person prefers. If I don't know for sure what they prefer, I just ask them.
03/10/2012
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