Fifty Shades of Grey... have you heard of it? Read it?

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Fifty Shades of Grey... have you heard of it? Read it?

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Contributor: Gone (LD29) Gone (LD29)
Quote:
Originally posted by Errant Venture
I wouldn't recommend it. For two main reasons: First - the sex scenes are really quite bad (I've read far better on here). The BDSM is stereotypical and unrealistic. Second - it started out as Twilight fanfic. There's a cardinal rule in ... more
The author of this book is far from being the first fanfic author to do this. I've seen a number of other authors try this. They just haven't been anywhere near as successful. For example, this started it's life as Buffy fanfic (and predates 50 Shades by a long shot). And she didn't even change the title!
05/27/2012
Contributor: Mrs. Tickle and Giggle Mrs. Tickle and Giggle
Quote:
Originally posted by Petite Valentine
I read about Fifty Shades of Grey today and I am curious. So far I've seen it likened to Eat, Pray, Love and Twilight just with lots of extra porn. Has anyone here read it? Plan to read it?

There is more information on the Huffington Post ... more
I have heard of it, but am still working my way through a few other books. It has been added to my list though.
05/27/2012
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Petite Valentine
The problem with making money on FanFic is that you're making money off of someone else's creations: their characters and the world they've built.
A lot of classic fiction was originally based on other characters, either from other people's work or from the Classics. I don't know a LOT about fan fic, I don't read it or write it. But, I think if the person is a good writer, and can change it enough to make it her own, I see no harm.

Ideally, I don't understand why people just don't make up their own characters, though. Why write stories with someone eles creations? If you're creative enough to think up unique situations, plots and new character development, make it your own from the start.

But, a LOT of writers get their chops closely imitating other author's works and characters. It's been that way for centuries.
05/27/2012
Contributor: jennifur77 jennifur77
Quote:
Originally posted by Petite Valentine
I read about Fifty Shades of Grey today and I am curious. So far I've seen it likened to Eat, Pray, Love and Twilight just with lots of extra porn. Has anyone here read it? Plan to read it?

There is more information on the Huffington Post ... more
I've never read Twilight. I'm assuming 50 shades of Gray won't be too hard to follow for having never read Twilight? Then again, I'm more curious about the erotica contained within it. . .
05/27/2012
Contributor: Errant Venture Errant Venture
I'd like to weigh in on the fanfiction side of this discussion.

The main problem when publishing fanfiction is the copyright infringement aspect. Yes, if you change enough of the story so that it's not recognisable as being set in another universe (fiction-wise) then it becomes a new story, and thus not copyright infringement. While I haven't read all of the stories that started out as fanfic, it's safe to assume that the copyright holders either don't know about the new story, or know and aren't bothered (or are bothered, but the lawsuit didn't hold).

Fifty Shades skirts this aspect to an alarming degree. As was pointed out in a link by someone else in this thread, a while ago, Fifty Shades is 89% similar to the original fanfiction story - I believe, if Stephanie Meyer so chose, she would have a case for copyright infringement.

As an aside, copyright infringement is a fairly new thing - being only two hundred or so years old. It simply didn't exist before that. That's why a lot of the older stories are repetitions of other stories (principally the Arthurian Tales by Chretien de Troyes. Even Shakespeare engaged in fanfiction).
05/28/2012
Contributor: Princess-Kayla ♥ Princess-Kayla ♥
Quote:
Originally posted by Errant Venture
I wouldn't recommend it. For two main reasons: First - the sex scenes are really quite bad (I've read far better on here). The BDSM is stereotypical and unrealistic. Second - it started out as Twilight fanfic. There's a cardinal rule in ... more
I'm reading it right now.
It really bugs me, because I read Twilight, then after I found out it was a Twilight fanfiction, I'm starting to see all kinds of similarities.
The guy is overprotective and dangerous. Her friend is dark skinned and muscular and he has the hots for her, but she doesn't really feel the same way. The guy is completely loaded. She's plain and clumsy with no self confidence.
It's basically the same story but with sex, and BDSM. And from what I've heard the BDSM is poorly done.
05/28/2012
Contributor: Petite Valentine Petite Valentine
Quote:
Originally posted by Errant Venture
I'd like to weigh in on the fanfiction side of this discussion.

The main problem when publishing fanfiction is the copyright infringement aspect. Yes, if you change enough of the story so that it's not recognisable as being set in ... more
Many fans will argue that the ties to Twilight are minimal. After all, there are no vampires or werewolves in 50. However, there is definitely a question of ethics.

Based on the excerpts I've read, James didn't develop a following based on her stellar [\sarcasm] writing style. Instead she maximized her hit count by capitalizing on a current, blockbuster series that has a HUMONGOUS built in fanbase. It was the millions of Twi-hards googling for "Bella Swan + Edward Cullen + sex" that put James work on the map. Take Bella & Edward out of the equation and I don't think M.o.t.U. would have received a tenth of the amount of attention it did.

Exploitation of a fanbase is not illegal, but is it ethical? Brilliant marketing, yes. Ethical...

Is it ethical to change 11% of a story and call it "new and separate"? Hell no, IMHO. Any college writing professor would FAIL a student for submitting a piece that was shown to have 89% similarity with an existing work. It doesn't help that it's a poorly written work to begin with.

If Shakespeare took a college course today, he might raise a few eyebrows because of how closely Romeo & Juliet resembles the Greek Myth of Pyramus and Thisbe, but the man knew his craft. Character, setting, dialogue... he knew how to write a story for the stage. E L James is a hack riding on the coattails of Meyer.
05/28/2012
Contributor: aliceinthehole aliceinthehole
Quote:
Originally posted by Petite Valentine
I read about Fifty Shades of Grey today and I am curious. So far I've seen it likened to Eat, Pray, Love and Twilight just with lots of extra porn. Has anyone here read it? Plan to read it?

There is more information on the Huffington Post ... more
twilight i've not seen but it looks incredibly cheesy, not my thing. eat, pray love was one of the worst movies i've ever seen julia roberts act in, and i really like her. i personally did go to italy, traveled around like a little vagabond, had my own stint in a meditation retreat, but in the movie it was all so oversimplified and stereotyped, and she was just so incredibly... what's the word? ditsy?

then there's that incredibly awkward, painful moment where she cries and prays to god for the first time. it was probably the most awkward, awful moment in movie history for me! i love julia, but god! that was painful...



i really didn't like it. but i tried to!

i've only heard of 50 shades of grey from Eden. all i know is it has something to do with handcuffs, vaginal exercise balls and maybe a whip or two.
05/28/2012
Contributor: Claire-Bear Claire-Bear
It's kink light at best. There's too much angst. I tried to get through the second book a few times and failed.
05/28/2012
Contributor: ghent529 ghent529
Quote:
Originally posted by jennifur77
I've never read Twilight. I'm assuming 50 shades of Gray won't be too hard to follow for having never read Twilight? Then again, I'm more curious about the erotica contained within it. . .
You don't have to have read Twilight to read 50 shades...
05/29/2012
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Petite Valentine
The problem with making money on FanFic is that you're making money off of someone else's creations: their characters and the world they've built.
This is why I don't understand the whole "Fan fic" thing in the first place. If you are a "writer" why not just make up your own characters and write your OWN stuff?

As for 50 Shades. I haven't read it (I haven't read Twilight yet, either, but from what my daughter says (the one who in Grad School for Library Science and KNOWS books) "The first one was OK, the others were insipid and written quickly and so they could make the movies." She isn't the only person with this opinion. Far from it.

As for law suits, they really aren't usually up to the actual author of the "original book." It's up to the publishers. If THEY don't have a problem with it, why would anyone else? (And, not to mention, neither you nor I nor anyone else can claim to "know what (whatever the author of Twilight) would do." I mean, neither of us have even read 50 Shades, HOW can you judge something you haven't read? Or claim to "know" what the author of Twilight is thinking?

Also, let's be logical, we're talking about fiction. HOW can you say it's "89% identical to something else." HOW can you give a percentage to a work of art?

In the long run; what difference does it make? Most authors, good ones admit to basing characters on other author's characters. Without Lord of the Rings there would be no Dark Tower (Stephen King) No Harry Potter... hell, no Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy plus 100 other "Epic Novels."

I think this whole thing is silly and much ado about nothing.
05/29/2012
Contributor: Khanner Khanner
ManDom is not my thing so I won't be reading it, but I'm confused by its popularity. Romance novels, even kinky ones, are old as hell. Why is everyone treating it like it's some spicy new invention?
05/29/2012
Contributor: Makoto Makoto
Quote:
Originally posted by Khanner
ManDom is not my thing so I won't be reading it, but I'm confused by its popularity. Romance novels, even kinky ones, are old as hell. Why is everyone treating it like it's some spicy new invention?
I also dislike man-dom and I REALLY hate twilight so yeah this is probably not going to last. I think in thirty years it's going to be as kitsch as Love Story is now.
05/29/2012
Contributor: Nirelan Nirelan
Quote:
Originally posted by jc123
I will admit to buying the book. (In my defense, I was stuck in an airport dealing with flight delays and had nothing else to do.)

I was pleasantly surprised. I find a lot of BDSM lit to be really trite or forced. I had thought this would ... more
I liked it too, surprisingly!
05/29/2012
Contributor: Nirelan Nirelan
I didn't pay for it, but I'm halfway through the second book and I like it enough! lol
05/29/2012
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Nirelan
I liked it too, surprisingly!
Thank you! At last; an opinion from someone who has actually read the book!

I appreciate your input, because unlike most on this thread, you've actually read the material. And, you have every right to like it, if you choose.
05/29/2012
Contributor: Petite Valentine Petite Valentine
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
This is why I don't understand the whole "Fan fic" thing in the first place. If you are a "writer" why not just make up your own characters and write your OWN stuff?

As for 50 Shades. I haven't read it (I ... more
That 89% similarity is the number provided by the computer program Turnitin when the text of 50 is compared to the text of Master of the Universe. It wasn't pulled out of the air. A unbiased computer program designed to catch plagiarism went BINGO! when provided with both works. Yes, E L James wrote both, however when you take into account that M.o.t.U. was written using Stephenie Meyer's characters and literary world, it raises ethical flags about advertising 50 as a "unique" and "separate" work.

Also, I know you're enjoying using Stephen King as an example, but I doubt he would appreciate the comparison. By his own account Stephenie Meyer sucks:

“Both Rowling and Meyer, they’re speaking directly to young people… The real difference is that Jo Rowling is a terrific writer and Stephanie Meyer can’t write worth a darn. She’s not very good.”

[For the record he's also eviscerated Erle Stanley Gardner ("terrible"), Dean Koontz ("sometimes...just awful") and James Patterson ("a terrible writer").]

I don't know how Mr. King feels about E L James, but it's not looking too good...

I don't hate 50 because it's popular. I was actually the one who started this thread back in March because I had heard about it and wondered if would be worth buying. It was reading the excerpts and online articles — though mostly the excerpts — that convinced me I wanted to steer clear. The same way I don't need to use a jelly toy to know it's going to cause a skin reaction, I don't need to read every page of the entire trilogy to know there is much better erotica out there.
05/29/2012
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
*sigh* I'm well aware King hates Twilight. It's evidently not well written. I used him as an example of well known writers who are strongly influenced by others. As in "The Dark Tower Series is closely influenced by Lord of the Rings." King has said as much himself. (And I honestly don't care what he "might think" about my comments. Really. As with the woman who wrote Twilight, neither you nor I have any idea what he thinks, and I honestly don't care what he would think about my comparisons. Why would I?)

Aside from the fact that I've probably invested a lot more in this than I really care to (and haven't read the book either) somebody wrote a computer program to determine the percentage that this book was similar to an other?
05/29/2012
Contributor: Gone (LD29) Gone (LD29)
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
*sigh* I'm well aware King hates Twilight. It's evidently not well written. I used him as an example of well known writers who are strongly influenced by others. As in "The Dark Tower Series is closely influenced by Lord of the ... more
No, as I understand it, somebody wrote a computer program to test student papers for possible plagiarism. Someone else just thought to run this book through it.
05/29/2012
Contributor: Petite Valentine Petite Valentine
Quote:
Originally posted by Gone (LD29)
No, as I understand it, somebody wrote a computer program to test student papers for possible plagiarism. Someone else just thought to run this book through it.
What LD29 said. I was amazed that there is such a program, though considering that kids can now buy term papers off the internet it's probably necessary.
05/29/2012
Contributor: namelesschaos namelesschaos
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
*sigh* I'm well aware King hates Twilight. It's evidently not well written. I used him as an example of well known writers who are strongly influenced by others. As in "The Dark Tower Series is closely influenced by Lord of the ... more
No they passed it through turnitin a computer program used by universities across the country to to catch plagiarism. I've had to submit multiple assessments to it myself. If any thing I called "original" showed up with a 89% on that thing ,including when compared to any of my own works , I would at best fail the assessment and at worse face expulsion. People can and are giving percentage to "art" everyday, well call it upholding ethics, at my university.

To put it simple no one at my university could call anything that turnitin rated a 89% "original" and "separate" and not face any consequence (and no "inspired by" won't get you a 89% on that thing) it would be considered unethical for me to call it such. I don't see why professional writers and publishers should be held to a different standard.

This isn't some random idea made up just to attack 50 shades, thousands are being judged the same way in universities across the country. I think some people responses to the concept of turnitin is inadvertently giving away some ages
05/29/2012
Contributor: Errant Venture Errant Venture
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
This is why I don't understand the whole "Fan fic" thing in the first place. If you are a "writer" why not just make up your own characters and write your OWN stuff?

As for 50 Shades. I haven't read it (I ... more
Fanfic writers often do write their own stuff - but if they want to show their love and appreciation for an already designed fictional universe, then why can't they? That is what fanfiction is, after all: the exploration and expansion of the universe by exploring characters and situations unique to the universe, in a display of affection for it - and I simply can't believe that that is in any way a bad thing. Art, good art, isn't your pet, it's your kid. It grows up and talks back to you. This is what fanfiction is.

As to the 89% thing, that's been explained by the others to my satisfaction.
05/30/2012
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by namelesschaos
No they passed it through turnitin a computer program used by universities across the country to to catch plagiarism. I've had to submit multiple assessments to it myself. If any thing I called "original" showed up with a 89% on that ... more
Maybe not knowing about this thing is showing my age, in that I haven't been to college in many years. I have kids who just finished and are STILL in college (one an English Major and now in a Library Science Master's program) and I never heard about it until my daughter just told me about it about 2 seconds ago.... because I asked. She started to laugh when I mentioned 50 Shades and yelled "OMG, supposedly based on Twilight fan fic, right? OMG...." She obviously cares about as much about this as I do... little.

I wonder if this program's results would be permitted in a court of law? My guess would be no.

And for the fan fic writers, never said no one should "not be allowed to" I guess I just don't get it why anyone would want to. If you're creative, write your own stuff. I don't see writing with someone else's characters.

I guess it's just one of those things other people "get" that totally escapes me.
05/30/2012
Contributor: reinkaos reinkaos
My wife is reading this as we speak and all she can say is that it is "interesting"
05/30/2012
Contributor: Petite Valentine Petite Valentine


50 Shades of Butt

50 Shades Appalled
06/07/2012
Contributor: MissMori MissMori
I want to offer this:
link
It's the first in a chapter-by-chapter recap of the novel. They start off pretty funny, but become less so as some of the straight-up abusive aspects of the relationship become obvious.
Here's my main issue - which I found myself shouting at my cats as I read this blog (and no, I haven't read the books and will not do so) - WORST DOM EVER!
Seriously, if you're into BDSM (or might be) this is not a sexy hot depiction of it. If you're not, and like the idea of a woman "fixing" a guy who is, well, why read about some dude who is seriously (apart from all the trappings of being a Domly Super-Dom) just plain abusive? Stick to non-BDSM erotica for fuck's sake!
I know I'm getting a bit agitated here, but the actual, real-life, awesome Doms I know? Would NEVER pull that shit. It's insulting to them to suggest that's a normal part of what they are.
And the ones who would act the way Christian does in the books? I've met them, too, and they are predators. Stay away.
Also, there are plenty of good erotica writers out there who are not getting this kind of attention, some of whom have already been mentioned in this thread. Give them your money.
Women getting their kink on? AWESOME! Women thinking some dude violating their boundaries and coercing them into things they don't want is "romantic"? NOT AWESOME!
Yeah, I know, it's silly that I'm ranting about some bit of fiction, but this is my world, and I am none too pleased that it is being presented to the mainstream like this. I am also none too pleased that women who may be experimenting for the first time might be taking this as an accurate and desirable depiction and not educating themselves and equipping themselves with the basic knowledge to find a good teacher.
BDSM is not abuse - abuse is abuse, and it is never romantic and should not be tolerated.
07/02/2012
Contributor: Errant Venture Errant Venture
Mori, that is a very good post. Thank you .
07/03/2012
Contributor: s3 s3
It's a shock book made for women who are into vanilla sex. I read it and liked it, even though I wasn't expecting to.
07/03/2012
Contributor: PeachPunch PeachPunch
I have been wanting to read this! I need to get it for my Kindle. I was just worried it would be kind of silly.
07/03/2012
Contributor: wrecklesswords wrecklesswords
I caved and bought the book about a month ago at Target. I started reading it right away even though I was reading another book (The Night Circus, AMAZING BOOK BTW).

I was very excited and hoped to find that some good erotica made it to the mainstream. I suppose that should have been a red flag for me right off the bat.

I want to say that I barely made it through a fourth of the book before I just gave up. I do.not.give.up on books. I will stick through them unless they are just absolutely appalling. Not only did I find Ana to be the epitome of a Mary Sue, but the writing style was bland, boring, and much like things I wrote for my high school creative writing class; lacking detail, insight, and lacking the ability to create a good scene and sense of the story.

I gave the copy to my girlfriend's mother and she said she enjoyed the book, but I just cannot. Maybe one day in the future when all the hubbub is over I will try it again, but I will say that I was greatly disappointed with what I read and even more disappointed that she "fixes" him. Isn't that the biggest cardinal rule we all know about relationships of any kind? You don't try to fix them, you either accept them how they are or you move along.

As for the fan fiction part of it, I am disappointed that there are so many fan fiction writers out there who write absolutely AMAZING stories that end up differing so much from the original who could get published and it's simple writing like this that gets published. Then again, I will admit that maybe that's just my jealousy kicking in. Maybe I'm just mad that people who write worse than I do can get published and I can't even get published in a local magazine. -shrugs-
07/06/2012