Advice from the Completely Inexperienced

Advice from the Completely Inexperienced

Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Have you had this happen? This happened to me in a sexual conversation, but I'm sure it could happen in any other.

A good friend of mine who I am very close to (female), and another mutual friend of ours (male) were talking one day, and my female friend and I were discussing the possibility of a threesome in my relationship. I am very much attracted to all sexes and gender identities and not comfortable with 100% monogamy, and my boyfriend is fine with that and has been open to this possibility since day 1. It's been well discussed, we know our parameters, we know each others comfort levels, everything to make this as happy and healthy of an experience as possible - I've done this before, I understand what's important and the red flags, and I think it's a great time for all.

Here's where the problem comes in: the mutual male friend - who is a virgin (not by choice) at 31 and has never had a real girlfriend or relationship decides to step up and say 'If you're thinking about a threesome, there must be real problems in the relationship. There is no reason for that in a healthy relationship.'

I'm sorry, WHAT? Look, it's one thing to have had a bad experience that's jaded your outlook or something like that but to have zero experience and make it sound like something is wrong in MY relationship? I think that's majorly out of line.

I was a good girl - I kept my mouth shut. Simply because sometimes I only run on 2 speeds; nice girl and rip-your-head-off :-P and I wasn't in the mood for the argument.

But have you had this happen, in any situation? Had someone that clearly has no basis for an opinion offer one, and unsolicited at that?

If you can't tell, I'm still fuming a little from this one...
08/27/2010
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PassionQT PassionQT
Since you gave us a little bit of his background, I'm comfortable in saying that although he is welcome to voice his opinion, he really has no personal experience to back up anything he says. He is judging you based on what his ideal of a healthy relationship should be, and he doesn't even know that yet for himself!

Now you know how this friend stands on the issue, I would just leave him out of further conversations discussing this if he disagrees.

Lastly, if you and your boyfriend feel stable and confident enough to explore, then by all means do so. You won't know until you try. Some couples are curious, yet never take that step, afraid of what it could do to the relationship. If there is that sense of hesitancy to begin with, don't do it! A bit of nervousness, excitement is ok, but if you are pre-occupied with the "what if's?", I would discuss them with your partner.

Have all the rules and boundaries established before you discuss it with the potential third. Case and point: My husband once met a couple who was not prepared at all. It was their first time and they hadn't discussed anything in advance, they just went for it. Needless to say it was a disaster and my husband didn't feel welcome. He could touch this or that or do this or that. Basically they just wanted someone to watch, but they didn't tell him that.
08/27/2010
seaofneptune seaofneptune
I agree, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Unfortunately they are not always right but they are still entitled to it. There are many people that feel that if you are looking somewhere else then you aren't happy in a relationship. Growing up I always felt that way, I mean if my partner was looking somewhere else I would question him but we agreed to be in a 100% monogamous relationship from the very beginning. If he is starting to get interested in other things, then I would feel that it would be time to sit down and talk things over to see if we could work something out.

Now you and your boyfriend agreed to this from the beginning which I think is great so if you both are happy with it then it's great! I mean, you can still be in a healthy relationship and have threesomes, it takes a great deal of comfort and trust to even agree to go into that situation so you are fine. You know you are in a healthy and happy relationship so that should be all that matters.

Now as far as me, I am sure I have been put in a situation like that. As I said before, everyone is entitled to their opinion so they are going to be sure to voice it so I am sure that I have.
08/27/2010
P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Tori Rebel
Have you had this happen? This happened to me in a sexual conversation, but I'm sure it could happen in any other.

A good friend of mine who I am very close to (female), and another mutual friend of ours (male) were talking one day, and ...
Tori, I think one thing you said about him sums it up: who is a virgin (not by choice) at 31 and has never had a real girlfriend or relationship end quote

He really isn't the person to be giving any relationship advice. What does HE know about healthy relationships? I understand, some people are virgins because they just haven't found the right person etc, but giving advice to people when THOSE people are light years ahead in sexual experience and relationship experience is out of line.

FTR, I'd keep your relationship and it's details away from this guy. My guess is he can't get his head around his having NO relationship and NO sex, and your ability (or your boyfriend's) to have more than one lover.

Plenty of people practice different forms of Poly Love and experimentation and varying types of group sex without having or causing "problems" in their main relationship.

Just keep what he doesn't need to hear away from him, or personally, I'd tell him to get back to you when he has the level of experience you and your bf do.

Just one question; Did you ask him his opinion, or did he just overhear you talking about it? I make it a practice not to talk to people I know will be judgmental about my sex life or my lifestyle ABOUT my sex life or my lifestyle.

08/27/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by PassionQT
Since you gave us a little bit of his background, I'm comfortable in saying that although he is welcome to voice his opinion, he really has no personal experience to back up anything he says. He is judging you based on what his ideal of a ...
The thing was, I wouldn't even be so irritated if he had been 'part' of the conversation. He was kind of wandering in and out and was overhearing, not so much partaking.

And my boyfriend and I have both done this in the past with other partners and know how to do so in the healthiest way for us both and it's been discussed at length - and even if we had decided against it, this particular friend's opinion wouldn't have influenced me. I just don't get the thought pattern that had to take place for that statement to go from his brain to his lips LOL

Thanks for the support!
08/27/2010
Kindred Kindred
I have to disagree to an extent. I think anyone's opinion is potentially valid. We may not agree, but they have a right to their opinion since it is based entirely on their own experiences and beliefs.

I also don't think that him being a virgin, regardless of the reason, is not a valid reason to dismiss his opinion. You can have had a deep meaningful relationship and not had sex. If your discussion was purely about having 3-way sex, then maybe his viewpoint would have less meaning. But your point was also about the relationships associated with a 3-way.

Lastly, none of us know exactly the extent of his experiences in relationships. No one can know exactly everything that another person has done or experienced. We all keep secrets to an extent. Perhaps he has chosen not to share them with you.

Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate, but I think it's important to not dismiss someone's opinion because we think they are not qualified. Choose to not agree, but try not to judge.

And I agree with those above, perhaps you should refrain from further such discussions in the presence of this friend. Hopefully I'm not coming across as an ass, but I think it's important to choose not to agree with someone's opinion rather than judge and dismiss.
08/27/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
Tori, I think one thing you said about him sums it up: who is a virgin (not by choice) at 31 and has never had a real girlfriend or relationship end quote

He really isn't the person to be giving any relationship advice. What does HE know ...
Nope, not only did I not ask his opinion (I should have been more clear about this in my original post), he wasn't really even part of the conversation. He was just there, and not even for the entire thing. I was discussing it with a friend of mine who I am very close to and she is very supportive and encouraging and we're both open with each other about our sex lives. It was more of an 'overhear' than anything, which is why it floors me.

My boyfriend and I, like I responded to Passion, are both very sexually open and experienced in things like this and have had all the appropriate discussions about trust, boundaries, safety, and are going into this with a healthy and positive outlook because we both know that situations like this DO work for both of us, it's not an even an 'if' or a 'maybe'. I'm not at all hesitant, I was simply discussing it with my friend and she was telling me about similar conversations in her own relationship.
08/27/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I have to disagree to an extent. I think anyone's opinion is potentially valid. We may not agree, but they have a right to their opinion since it is based entirely on their own experiences and beliefs.

I also don't think that him ...
Kindred, normally I would agree (and things can come across badly in type so I do mean this all in a very friendly manner - and I do appreciate you playing devils advocate, I end up taking that role frequently myself), I don't in this instance. If he were a virgin with extensive relationship experience or hey, ANY relationship experience, I would not have been so irritated. He's never had a relationship with anyone above friendship - ever, at all. I promise I'm not exaggerating.

If any of my other friends with a any relationship experience, be it sexual or not, had offered that opinion, I still would've disagreed, but I wouldn't have been so taken aback at the gall it took to say what he did without basis, and quite frankly, with such judgmental attitude and nerve.
08/27/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by seaofneptune
I agree, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Unfortunately they are not always right but they are still entitled to it. There are many people that feel that if you are looking somewhere else then you aren't happy in a relationship. Growing up ...
I completely appreciate your response, SeaofNeptune. Some people are cut out for monogamy and if you know that, and have experienced that it's right for you, I have total respect for that. Since I know that not all people perceive the way I choose to live as normal, I do my best not to judge others' lifestyles - as long as people are happy and healthy, that's really all I see that matters. It's just appalling to see someone give out advice on something they have no personal experience with whatsoever. Even if he does know that monogamy is the way he would want to live his life, if he were to have a relationship, he has no personal experiences to base it being 'unhealthy' on - to me that's just judgmental and uncalled for.
08/27/2010
Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by Tori Rebel
Kindred, normally I would agree (and things can come across badly in type so I do mean this all in a very friendly manner - and I do appreciate you playing devils advocate, I end up taking that role frequently myself), I don't in this instance. ...
I did not take your post in anything but a friendly response

I was simply pointing out the positive side of taking what your friend said without judging it based on his experience. Our opinions are all relative and come from the only perspective we know, our own.
08/27/2010
Maiden Maiden
I can see where this could have annoyed you, but opinions are like assholes: EVERYBODY has one! Regardless of whether he is a virgin or not, anyone could have said the same thing to you and it would have been annoying. The problem is in the fact that some people are narrow minded and can't understand it when some one thinks differently than they do.

Sometimes all you can do is bite your tongue and let it go. The alternative, if you just CAN'T let it go, is to try and explain your opinion to this person without getting defensive. Also, getting angry and pointing out to him that he is a virgin and has no experience isn't going to accomplish anything but possibly make YOU feel better for a second.
08/27/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I did not take your post in anything but a friendly response

I was simply pointing out the positive side of taking what your friend said without judging it based on his experience. Our opinions are all relative and come from the only ...
Completely true.
08/27/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by Maiden
I can see where this could have annoyed you, but opinions are like assholes: EVERYBODY has one! Regardless of whether he is a virgin or not, anyone could have said the same thing to you and it would have been annoying. The problem is in the fact that ...
It would've annoyed me, but not nearly to the same extent. When people have experience or a personal basis to back things up, it doesn't bother me so much. I understand that some of the things I do and choices I make have not worked out by others so if it was from someone with a little more of an adult life-experienced perspective, I wouldn't have minded so much because I would be willing to bet it was based on a bad experience.

You're right about opinions though - I just wish the unsolicited ones would go away
08/27/2010
gone77 gone77
I think it's one thing to dismiss unsolicited opinions and another to dismiss the opinion of someone who is not experienced in sex or a different situation. I'm a virgin and I've given lots of advice and opinions on sex and relationships to people with far more experience than me, and it's usually solicited. Yes, I've been known to just throw out an unsolicited advice/opinions. hehe But I do not base my relationship advice on what I consider to be my ideal relationship, but rather on the relationship of the person asking for my advice.

I'd dismiss your friend's opinion based on the fact that he thinks there's only one twue way to conduct a relationship, and not because he's a virgin. He didn't offer advice so much as a judgmental opinion.

Just my 2 cents.
08/27/2010
joja joja
Quote:
Originally posted by gone77
I think it's one thing to dismiss unsolicited opinions and another to dismiss the opinion of someone who is not experienced in sex or a different situation. I'm a virgin and I've given lots of advice and opinions on sex and relationships ...
Agreed. My sex geekery started way before I lost my virginity, and I used to feel like people would disregard my comments if they knew I was a virgin. Which was particularly distressing because I loved talking about sex, and was more knowledgeable than my peers at the time! (High school/college.) I even had people insinuate that you don't know what you like if you've never tried it with a person.
08/28/2010
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by Tori Rebel
Have you had this happen? This happened to me in a sexual conversation, but I'm sure it could happen in any other.

A good friend of mine who I am very close to (female), and another mutual friend of ours (male) were talking one day, and ...
Had it happen often and about many things most especially polyamory. See my husband and I can't develop the intimacy needed to have a truly fulfilling relationship which is why I'm a slut who can't please her man! Also I am too fat and unattractive which is why my husband doesn't come home at night. (That one pisses my life partner off so badly he often just babbles, and makes Sigel laugh) I play online RPGs which is why my husband and I can't solve our 'intimacy' issues...
All this from perfect strangers who "KNOW" what they are talking about! My kids are hellions who are sex crazed, moronic and mortally ashamed of their whore mother and her lover!
I just laugh and ask these self proclaimed specialists when the last time they had a major argument with their spouse that lead to a beautiful, deep discussion on where we were headed and what we wanted out of life and a heartfelt sincere appology for the nasty things we said in the heat of anger?
No one who meets us knows we are "deviants" unless we tell them outright...and they envy us the fact that we are deeply in love after 25 years. The EXACT same thing can be said about my relationship with my life partner who has been with us for 3 years.
My kids are well spoken, innocent, and they shine with respect and love for their trio of parental figures. So all in all I politely thank the idiots for sharing their concerns and walk away feeling rather, well...proud of what we have carved out for ourselves.

If you have done all the groundwork Tori and you are confident in your relationship then smile and tell your erstwhile friend to get back to you when he/she has a bit more experience from which to draw upon...it might be cruel but so is his/her unkind words and assumptions.
08/28/2010
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by gone77
I think it's one thing to dismiss unsolicited opinions and another to dismiss the opinion of someone who is not experienced in sex or a different situation. I'm a virgin and I've given lots of advice and opinions on sex and relationships ...
Have to agree with Kristi on this one as well. Some advice based on an extensive conversation about my relationship is one thing, throwing out a judgemental attitude that seems to be an ingrained way of looking at something is another entirely.
08/28/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by joja
Agreed. My sex geekery started way before I lost my virginity, and I used to feel like people would disregard my comments if they knew I was a virgin. Which was particularly distressing because I loved talking about sex, and was more knowledgeable ...
@Prax & Kristi- If it were anyone like the two of you, who although technically virgins (or as Prax was at the time), but still has some relationship experience, again, I wouldn't be nearly as taken aback. But this person simply doesn't fall into these categories. It's a really unusual situation but without going into really ridiculous amounts of detail, it can't be described in its entirety. He also (I've overheard him say it about other people- I stayed WAY out of this conversation LOL) thinks that sex toys mean you have sexual problems or are in a failing relationship. He's not only inexperienced, but entirely uneducated and yet still very judgmental. It's just very frustrating.
08/28/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by Airen Wolf
Had it happen often and about many things most especially polyamory. See my husband and I can't develop the intimacy needed to have a truly fulfilling relationship which is why I'm a slut who can't please her man! Also I am too fat and ...
I would have loved to say something back, but I'm fairly non-confrontational and we have so many mutual friends that putting a rift there (which it would have...he's one of those people you can't criticize) would make lots of things uncomfortable for lots of people. In addition, I tried once telling him that he'd hurt my feelings with something he'd said (I have generalized anxiety disorder and am happily medicated for it, it's a major quality of life issue for me, and he once told me that he thinks I'm being a child and I just need to go without it because it's a made up disease and 'immersion therapy' would be best so I should just do everything that I'm scared of it my fake disease will go away. He also thinks that depression and bipolar disorder are 'pretend' and said he gained this knowledge working at a pharmacy) and he just shrugged. And the more examples like this I think of, I'm honestly starting to wonder WHY I call this person a friend at all... I think that's the only part of any of this that I need to rethink.
08/28/2010
Sir Sir
A person can be a virgin and be knowledgeable. That's a misconception on your part, and honestly, it seems like you're not so educated either.

You kept your mouth shut - if you had a problem, you should have opened it and educated him. If you didn't have a problem, then what's the big deal? If you're not going to educate the ignorant, then you are JUST as bad as them.
  •   (1)
    I am personally offended by this
08/28/2010
Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by Tori Rebel
Have you had this happen? This happened to me in a sexual conversation, but I'm sure it could happen in any other.

A good friend of mine who I am very close to (female), and another mutual friend of ours (male) were talking one day, and ...
Wow, that was jerky of him to say. Even if he was a sexual god or experienced in the relationship area, it would have still been mean. Mature adults should have an understanding that every relationship is unique and everybody is different so our ideas of ideal and comfortable won't necessarily apply to others.

I agree that I would have been non-confrontational with him though. Even if I was hurt by his statement I would have been afraid to hurt his feelings back by pointing out his lack of a relationship.

I don't know what would have been the "right" thing to say or do but I think he definitely should have been more understanding and less judging.
08/28/2010
Sir Sir
Lack of a relationship is not the thing to confront him about. That's his prerogative and choice. What there is to confront him about, though, are his thoughts on poly or non-monogamous relationships. Being single and his views have nothing to do with one another. A person can be single, and a self-proclaimed virgin, and still be educated and OPEN-MINDED on these topics (one of who posted on this very thread).
08/28/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
A person can be a virgin and be knowledgeable. That's a misconception on your part, and honestly, it seems like you're not so educated either.

You kept your mouth shut - if you had a problem, you should have opened it and educated him. ...
Sir, if you had read the rest of the posts, you would've seen that I've stated several times that he is NOT educated, virgin or not. I know enough about him to know that is simply not the case.

And also, I have attempted to educate this person on other things, and been either dismissed or insulted, so why continue to bother on this person? I have a problem with the judgmental attitude that he took based on zero information, not his actual opinion. If it had been based on education, experience, etc. I would have simply shrugged it off as his personal opinion, but it was not, it was an outright, unwarranted judgment.
08/28/2010
Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Tori Rebel
Sir, if you had read the rest of the posts, you would've seen that I've stated several times that he is NOT educated, virgin or not. I know enough about him to know that is simply not the case.

And also, I have attempted to educate ...
I never said that this person was educated. I was talking in general. You even bringing up the fact that this person's a virgin shows that you do not accept that they are one and feel that their opinion is less valid for it.

If you've been so badly treated and you do not like this individual's opinions, why are you still associating yourself with them? If they're not willing to listen to reason and they really upset you, then you should remove yourself from the situation and move on from it.

I agree with you - why continue to bother with this person? But you are saying all of these things to me, someone who has nothing to do with the situation. You should be saying them to the person who deserves it - the person who offended you.
08/28/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
I never said that this person was educated. I was talking in general. You even bringing up the fact that this person's a virgin shows that you do not accept that they are one and feel that their opinion is less valid for it.

If you've ...
I actually said a few posts up when giving a response to someone else that I'm starting to wonder myself why I have anything to do with this person at all. You're very much correct on that one and it's definitely time to do some rethinking on keeping him in my life at all- it's difficult, being in the same 'circle' but I know others have attempted to distance themselves as well.

I have no problem with him being a virgin (to me the focus is more that he has never been in a relationship, not that he hasn't had sex, but that doesn't come across well when typing apparently), but I find it very odd when anyone without ANY relationship experience offers advice on relationships. The same way I find it odd when people that have no children, have no exposure to them, have no education in the field, etc. offer parenting advice. It seems quite misplaced and somewhat uncalled for to me.

I'm simply curious as to how other people would've felt in this situation and see how other people would have reacted if it had happened to them.
08/28/2010
Darling Jen Darling Jen
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Lack of a relationship is not the thing to confront him about. That's his prerogative and choice. What there is to confront him about, though, are his thoughts on poly or non-monogamous relationships. Being single and his views have nothing to do ...
I wasn't saying that I would confront him about his lack of a relationship at all. Just that I might accidentally hurt his feelings about it if I did decide to argue with his snap judgement. When I get upset I'm not always very articulate so I accept the fact that I might incidentally do more harm than I mean to. That's why I would have kept my mouth shut too and just not talked about things in front of him anymore.

And I certainly didn't mean to, nor do I think anyone else on this post meant to either, offend anyone who is a self-proclaimed virgin, single, or never been in a relationship. Everyone I've talked to here has been knowledgable, accepting, and very supportive no matter their "status".
08/28/2010
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by Tori Rebel
I would have loved to say something back, but I'm fairly non-confrontational and we have so many mutual friends that putting a rift there (which it would have...he's one of those people you can't criticize) would make lots of things ...
Ummm ya I agree with your unstated feelings...it's time to move on and get away from this negative waste of space! He has no right to make diagnoses, he isn't a doctor. Internalizing abuse can trigger a panic attack and make anxiety disorder much worse...and I got my experience by being unable to tolerate the meds used for this disorder and having to go through therapy. Stocking shelves in a pharmacy doesn't make you an expert in anything but stocking shelves...if he had a degree he'd know that what he's saying is wrong and hurtful.
He's a clod and not worth your time if he can't at least abide by social norms...good lord I wish my friends would wrap me in cotton wool and let me mouth off with out repercussions. I am just as opinionated but I get my fingers slapped harshly for stepping over the lines he is disregarding!
08/28/2010
Tori Rebel Tori Rebel
Quote:
Originally posted by Airen Wolf
Ummm ya I agree with your unstated feelings...it's time to move on and get away from this negative waste of space! He has no right to make diagnoses, he isn't a doctor. Internalizing abuse can trigger a panic attack and make anxiety disorder ...
I agree completely with you and Sir....this boy's gotta go.
08/28/2010
Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by Tori Rebel
I agree completely with you and Sir....this boy's gotta go.
You can do it easily by simply refusing to talk to , around or be in the general area where this clod is. be assertive and it'll make you feel more confident next time someone jumps in with unwanted, unwarranted advice. You have the right to say gently, "Thank you for your advice and opinions I'll take them under consideration." Then walk away. It's how I handle the myriad ways my anxiety impacts my life.
08/28/2010
gone77 gone77
There are many valid points here, and now that I've read more from you, Tori, I see exactly where you're coming from. I agree that you should remove this negative and judgmental person from either your life or at the very least your social interactions.

I think it's great that this thread has had a few members step in to offer their advice and support. Should anyone else decide to speak up with their own opinions and advice on this matter, I hope they do so respectfully. We're all here to help each other, yeah? And I hope, Tori, that you feel better about the situation now than when you initially posted.
08/30/2010
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