You have for sure forgotten ahahah someones getting old! j/k <3

Pretty much this. I remember my parents saying that about my generation.

I suspect that, though these days it's much more accepted and acceptable to be lazy or unmotivated, the issue is more fundamental in that this is what EVERY generation says about its youth.

Of course, youth rail against this--only to go on as adults to bemoan the state of the young.

To address the first point: twenty- and thirty-something "boomerang children," those who live at home with mom & dad, are now common and accepted! This is neither how I was raised nor how I shall raise my own children, but it's the prevailing view these days.

I suppose that I'll turn the original question back around to you: you are the parent here. Is this behavior what you want to see?

I am 21 and still live at home. I do not want to. I blame myself for dropping out of high school, I do have my GED though. Even though my parents were the ones who suggested dropping out. I just don't really understand the whole school thing now. Like college and shit. I mean I also have this horrible memory from times when I was into shit. So I have a hard time remembering stuff. Though I am thinking of planning on trying to go back to school. I have tried in the past, but it didn't work out.

Also with there being like NO jobs it is hard to find a job sometimes to move out. Half the places aroud here do their hiring around holiday seasons and lay off right after. That makes it impossible to do and get a place of your own.

You really can't compare now and then can you? Your comment I find offending because if you don't understand situations then why judge them? Did you realize that some young people live in area's with virtually NO jobs? Some like myself do not drive? I have a HUGE fear of the front seat of cars as well as other reasonings. You post just seems very judging of some people who TRY but can't seem to get out.

My post presents the prevailing view and clash that exists between the old and the young. No more, no less.

And, as I've pointed out, this is as it has always been.

The only items not in this vein deal with parenting: my own (which, while you may have an opinion about, is not your concern) and a question for the thread-starter.

I'm sorry for you that you feel offended. The world is a hard place.

Finally--and this is the topper--you have entirely misunderstood my underlying motivations. Not that it's important, but try-and-fail is different from the scenario painted originally--that of don't-try-and-be-lazy. Try-and-fail? Fine. As I've pointed out here, the world is a hard place. Don't-try-and-be-lazy? Maddening, and I'll not have my own children fall victim to this. If they somehow do, they'll do it on their own dime.

Ok first of all you do not have to get bitchy. You post a comment in an open thread. Anyone can reply!

I am not going to reply to you after this. I refuse to respond to rude people like you. Please grow up.

I lost motivation as a teenager due to depression.

The most telling thing in this post:
'll not have my own children fall victim to this. People have NO idea what they will do, if they don't have kids yet, or have adult children yet.

I was a perfect parent once......then I had kids.....and realized what I thought I "would" do and what the reality of what had to be done for each child were often two different things.

I have two kids in their early adulthood. One is moved out, living with a fiance and doing OK, but she still needs help sometimes. The other is living at home, and probably will until she is finished with grad school (she is not yet graduated from Uni yet.) As for the baby (who is 11) I REFUSE to say how she will be or what I will do UNTIL I GET TO THAT PLACE in her life.

I do NOT think kids are any more or less "lazy" than they were when I was kid, nor 1000 years ago. Socrates complained about "lazy, disrespectful youth" 2,000 years ago. People tend to judge other people's parenting and don't remember what THEY were like when they were kids.

One of my pet peeves is "I won't do this when I'm a parent." People have NO idea until they've been through it what they would do. It's almost as bad as "I know what it's like to be a parent. I have a dog." Please.

As for "They can call CPS." Only for physical abuse. There are better ways to both discipline and reprimand and motivate children. I don't hit my kids.....EVER. Yet, they are pretty well behaved (they have their moments, and they get bratty and "disrespectful" and shit happens.) But I've don't worry about CPS (DCFS in our state) because I don't do anything that CPS would be concerned about. Giving chores or taking away privileges or allowance ISN'T a CPS related event! Neither is "catching them being good." Sometimes the best way to motivate a child is to let them know what they are doing RIGHT rather than only pointing out their mistakes.

Saying, "I need you to wash the floor. If you don't want to, there will be no going out this weekend." Or, "You left the garbage cans at the curb and it was your job to take them in. You will be docked $5.00 from this week's allowance." OR "Hey, good job on cleaning the bathroom. I appreciate the help." are not things any child would call CPS for, yet they are forms of discipline and child training.

Right. I have had one of my kids in therapy. And on meds. It helped a LOT. A hell of a lot more than beating her would have done. Really, a lack of motivation and even disrespect (which is actually from being irritable) is often a symptom of depression.

Even in our darkest hour, I never had a kid threaten to call DCFS on us. There are better ways to discipline than physical punishment. It NEVER works for long, it never works well, and it destroys the parent-child bond IMO. Then, when they are older, you have no skills for behavior management when they are "too old" to hit. The best thing is to NEVER hit, and then you don't have to worry about it.

Family Therapy is the best solution for a family who used to rely on physical punishment and now has resentful, scared acting out kids from it. Actually, it's probably the ONLY thing for it, because the parent didn't learn kind and useful teaching skills when they were hitting and the child doesn't realize there are other ways their parents could be effective.

In therapy the parent can learn new skills for dealing with each child and the child learns new ways to relate. It's really the best thing for troubled, sad or "disrespectful" kids and scared parents.

I think the "most telling thing" in my post was this:

I suspect that, though these days it's much more accepted and acceptable to be lazy or unmotivated, the issue is more fundamental in that this is what EVERY generation says about its youth.

Of course, youth rail against this--only to go on as adults to bemoan the state of the young.

In other words, we agree. To make this perfectly clear, let's re-visit your post:
I do NOT think kids are any more or less "lazy" than they were when I was kid, nor 1000 years ago. Socrates complained about "lazy, disrespectful youth" 2,000 years ago. People tend to judge other people's parenting and don't remember what THEY were like when they were kids.

Our views on this match.

"When I am a parent," I will strive to amplify that which I found good and helpful in my childhood and life--viz: discipline, which included not having the option to not try--and remove or reduce these things that I found bad or unhelpful. This is a statement that can be made, and does not require having a brood to make. The precise articulation is more difficult and dependent upon the individual. You'll note that I haven't outlined a precise plan, for this exact reason. This approach, too, is used whenever the adult is not a monster. It is what everyone wants for their children.

Yet, given the option between setting a child up to not even try, or setting them up to give things a shot (and possibly fail), I will strive for the latter. To not do so does no one any good, but effectively removes them from developing into the people they could--and deserve to--be.

This is becoming pretty removed from the topic at hand, which has been addressed and re-addressed.

I think its that there is less to do outdoors and more to do inside. Don't get me wrong I personally love video games. But if kids are going to live long enough to play more of them in the future they need to get off they're butts once in awhile.

You said two things that resonate with me and my parenting. I You, P'Gell.

You said, "I was a perfect parent once, then I had kids." This is so true. I always said, "I'll never let my kids watch more than 30 minutes of television, if ever." and "I'll never feed my kids fast food, it's so horrible." I laugh at myself now. You know what? If I can put my kids in front of the TV for 30-45 minutes so I can take a shower or do the dishes, or HELL, even if I can do it just to have 30-45 minutes of peace and quiet? I'll do it. And sometimes, McDonalds is a perfectly acceptable meal.

Then you said, "There are better ways to discipline your children." Yes. There. Are. I agree whole-heartedly that there are many ways to deal with children that aren't violent. Children tend to naturally hit or kick when they don't like something. How do you teach the child that violence is not okay if you act violently towards them?

Being a parent is not easy and you never know how you will respond to any situation until you're faced with it.

I also tend to agree that it's pretty cyclical of the older generations bemoaning the younger generations. I remember my grandparents doing it, I remember my parents doing it, and HELL, people who are younger than me (I'm 30, mind you) bemoan the teens. (Personally I'm not a fan of teenagers and I have NO IDEA what I'm going to do when I have two of my own.... drink?)(I relate more to children 5-10 and adults)

Wow, this thread took a detour! Anyway, SexyInTexas, you got me thinking of something that I was confronted with when I was talking to someone about my own parenting methods.

When you said "if my child puts themself or someone else in danger by their actions that I should be able to pop them on their ass, get their attention and deal with an unsafe situation..." it reminded me of something a friend had asked me once.

How is popping their ass any different than grabbing (not harshly) their arm and talking sternly to them? For example, if a child were to run into the street... Smacking their behind and yelling "Don't do that, that's dangerous, you could get hit by a car!" is just as effective as running up to them and getting on their level, in their face, and yelling "Don't do that! That's dangerous. You could get hit by a car!" Does the pop on the behind really drives the message home? Granted, it seems like you're further into your life as a parent than I am, as I have a potty training toddler and a kindergartener.

I agree that you should discipline in your own way without getting thrown into a legal situation so long as you're not abusive. I also don't believe that every spanking is abusive. Nor am I saying that you should just let your kids do what they want. There absolutely needs to be rules, boundaries, and consequences. But in my experience with a strong-willed child, the spanking simply frustrates and angers her more. It makes her less receptive of any of the lessons I try to teach her. Respect breeds respect, kindness breeds kindness, gentility breeds gentility.

Again, this isn't a questioning of your parenting methods, simply food for thought.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think there are any reasons to hit children. There are better ways to get their attention. Hitting only has short term effects, which then leaves you with resentful, scared and eventually disobedient children. This is actually proven by research. Physical punishment doesn't work LONG TERM. All kids do is learn ways to NOT GET CAUGHT, so they don't get hit. Then they go about their merry way, doing whatever they like, just so they know they won't get caught. That's ALL hitting does. EVER.

Good discipline teaches kids HOW to act, by Modeling, teaching them to think, timing then out, taking away privileges, etc. All hitting does is stop them in their tracks for a second or two, and eventually becomes unworkable and ineffective and loses it's impact, as you have admitted you have found.

I've raised 3 kids, two to adulthood. Only one "ran into the street", once. She was reprimanded, but NOT HIT! She didn't do it again. My other kids never ran into the street. (Why it is always "running into the street" that people use to OK hitting? One of my kids actually put a butter knife into an electrical socket (well almost) and My Man was able to get to her first, let her know it was NOT an OK thing to do, tell her it could kill her and then she got a Time Out and had a toy taken away for one day. She NEVER put a knife into a light socket again. HOW did that NOT work? Did it work LESS than hitting her would have? Absolutely not.

I can't see how physical violence "gets their attention" any better than eye contact and paying attention to them does. The problem is, kids who get hit get jaded and think "That's all she can do to me. LOL!" Then, when they become teens, they use the hitting against you, and you have NO other, more effective parenting skills to discipline them with.

The word Discipline comes from the Latin "To Teach" NOT "to hit." There are plenty of ways to discipline kids without physical violence. Discipline is certainly allowed in Texas, one just has to get the link between "discipline" and "violence" from being connected in their heads AND in PRACTICE.

Does CPS come to your house if you dock allowance? How about if you take away privileges? Does grounding the kids get CPS up in your house? How about putting the video game player in the attic or the garage for a set period of time after misbehavior, if they aren't doing what you like? CPS gonna come for that? My guess is no. The only thing they don't want you doing is hitting or locking kids up.

ALL other forms of discipline, of which are myriad, are still available to you and everyone else.

What manner of child rearing strategy, besides Hitting, are you "not allowed to do?" I can't think of ONE (besides locking kids up) that any Child Protective Services would get involved in. I've never heard of DCFS knocking on someone's door because the kid got grounded for 3 weekends, or had their video game taken away or had extra chores added as discipline.

But, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree about that.

Thanks, honey. I you, too.

I'm not a huge fan of teens, either. But you gotta slog through it. I've been through it twice and about to again (baby is 11.) The best thing you can do is to make sure your kids trust you and respect you BEFORE they hit 10-11 for girls and about 13 for boys. Then, the shit hits the fan!

If good discipline strategies are already in place, it makes the teen years so much easier. I've never really complained about my kids, that much. Yeah, they leave dishes lying around (which then end up ON THEIR BEDS if they don't put them in the dishwasher or wash them. OR they have to use plastic baby cups and dishes for a few days) and they get smart mouths (3 days with no computer and no phone seems to cure that) but you get through the best you can.

If I remember, BEING a teen kinda sucked, too.

Hugs, honey. I'm sorry you had to go through that shit.

I just want to take all the kids who had to learn to flinch every time an adult moved quickly in my arms and rock them.

*hugs*

Thanks. It's hard to deal with. I finally got medication for my panic disorder, but it only helps so much. Plus with my dad being home every day now on worker's comp (hence not being around lately) makes it harder.

I remember that too

Good point.

I think that every child is very different and there are different methods that are effective. If getting at your childs level and talking to them works, then by all means don't spank if you don't have too. Some kids though won't listen until you get their full attention first. I have two that get truly hurt if they dissapoint you in any way so its not neccesary. I have one who refuses to listen to anything and one who has ADHD so discipline is different with him. Spanking never would even phase him just make him go off somewhere so he is a lot different. Yeah, you know your kids and their personalities so parents know what is effective for them and whats not.

True!

No I believe that they have too much avaliable at their hands. They are well aware that they can just google it, text instead of speak, etc. There is no more earning responsiblity or even playing outside as much. These teens seem more difficult to discipline than before. Children are in first grade having cell phones and 7th grade with Nooks and Ipads. Whats going on!? Lol