How do you respond? Do you say anything, like "that's offensive," or "i think you mean, 'that sucks.'" Or do you let it go and think to yourself?
What do you do when someone says, "that's so gay?"
08/04/2010
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Maybe I'm old - BUT HOW THE HELL DID THIS GET STARTED AS AN INSULT??? I just DO NOT see the connection! (Although it was downright bizarre when I overheard a group of ten year old boys talking about when they'll kiss girls and one of them said 'Kissing girls is gay.' WTF??)
08/04/2010
It REALLY irritates me. "Gay" does not mean "stupid" or "ridiculous" etc. Same goes for "Ghey" or whatever people try to pass it off as. Gay is an acceptable word for those who identify as being attracted to those of the same gender, and that should be the extent of using the word.
My 21 year old occasionally uses this word, in a silly way, and she looks at me and apologizes immediately.
My 21 year old occasionally uses this word, in a silly way, and she looks at me and apologizes immediately.
08/04/2010
I wish there was an "other" option because it really depends on the person who said it. If it was my kids..I'd correct them and let them know that it's not what they should say. If it was a random person I'm not going to be the word police and correct them. I would think to myself that it's not the right thing to say..but I'm not going to say anything. I'd probably correct my friends or family members too but I don't think I've ever heard them use the word unless they meant homosexual.
Thing is that a lot of words can be taken offensively by a lot of people. Lame, Stupid, Crazy, retarded, can all be taken offensively if you think about their origins and I'm sure there are many many more that I'm just not thinking of right this moment. And sure some of them are more obviously wrong to say, but others people just genuinely don't realize are offensive. So really I can't go around starting arguments with people all day long whenever they say a word that I think is wrong.
Thing is that a lot of words can be taken offensively by a lot of people. Lame, Stupid, Crazy, retarded, can all be taken offensively if you think about their origins and I'm sure there are many many more that I'm just not thinking of right this moment. And sure some of them are more obviously wrong to say, but others people just genuinely don't realize are offensive. So really I can't go around starting arguments with people all day long whenever they say a word that I think is wrong.
08/04/2010
Quote:
"That's so Emma and Julia!"
Originally posted by
Alicia
I wish there was an "other" option because it really depends on the person who said it. If it was my kids..I'd correct them and let them know that it's not what they should say. If it was a random person I'm not going to be
...
more
I wish there was an "other" option because it really depends on the person who said it. If it was my kids..I'd correct them and let them know that it's not what they should say. If it was a random person I'm not going to be the word police and correct them. I would think to myself that it's not the right thing to say..but I'm not going to say anything. I'd probably correct my friends or family members too but I don't think I've ever heard them use the word unless they meant homosexual.
Thing is that a lot of words can be taken offensively by a lot of people. Lame, Stupid, Crazy, retarded, can all be taken offensively if you think about their origins and I'm sure there are many many more that I'm just not thinking of right this moment. And sure some of them are more obviously wrong to say, but others people just genuinely don't realize are offensive. So really I can't go around starting arguments with people all day long whenever they say a word that I think is wrong. less
Thing is that a lot of words can be taken offensively by a lot of people. Lame, Stupid, Crazy, retarded, can all be taken offensively if you think about their origins and I'm sure there are many many more that I'm just not thinking of right this moment. And sure some of them are more obviously wrong to say, but others people just genuinely don't realize are offensive. So really I can't go around starting arguments with people all day long whenever they say a word that I think is wrong. less
remember that PSA?
08/04/2010
Quote:
Yea and that new one with Hilary Duff "that's so girl wearing a skirt as a top". I'd use that technique with my kids if they ever said it, just not some random person.
Originally posted by
El-Jaro
"That's so Emma and Julia!"
remember that PSA?
remember that PSA?
08/04/2010
Words, for the most part, only have the power you give them.
I grew up on the 80's. "That's so gay!" was standard vocabulary. Not a single one of us, at 12 years old, thought about gay people when we said it.
Just like kids don't think of sick people when they say their friend's new ipod is "totally sick, man!"
Just like, being Polish, I don't get my panties in a wad over Polish jokes or, when I was blonde, didn't get mad at blonde jokes. I don't get upset when people talk about BDSM or kink as being deviant.
Words just don't have that much power, to me, unless they're intentionally hurtful. Intent is everything.
I do teach my son to be careful with how he speaks, to not say things that may be hurtful to others, to not run around the mall cussing and acting a fool. But, hell, half the words teenagers use today don't even make sense to me. None of them mean what they actually mean - and I look at "gay" in that context the same way.
I'm not 12 anymore. I rarely say it anymore - though I'll admit that each generation DOES hold on to the words of it's youth.
Just last week a friend of mines mom was telling me how... totally hip she is and how her husband was such a square. I'm guessing she didn't mean the hip bone or the four sided shape...
I grew up on the 80's. "That's so gay!" was standard vocabulary. Not a single one of us, at 12 years old, thought about gay people when we said it.
Just like kids don't think of sick people when they say their friend's new ipod is "totally sick, man!"
Just like, being Polish, I don't get my panties in a wad over Polish jokes or, when I was blonde, didn't get mad at blonde jokes. I don't get upset when people talk about BDSM or kink as being deviant.
Words just don't have that much power, to me, unless they're intentionally hurtful. Intent is everything.
I do teach my son to be careful with how he speaks, to not say things that may be hurtful to others, to not run around the mall cussing and acting a fool. But, hell, half the words teenagers use today don't even make sense to me. None of them mean what they actually mean - and I look at "gay" in that context the same way.
I'm not 12 anymore. I rarely say it anymore - though I'll admit that each generation DOES hold on to the words of it's youth.
Just last week a friend of mines mom was telling me how... totally hip she is and how her husband was such a square. I'm guessing she didn't mean the hip bone or the four sided shape...
08/04/2010
I have seen people who are gay, use the word like that. Scott Thompson goes out of his way to use the harshest phrases in the most demeaning ways, and Scott Thompson Rules! I do see the point. I don't disagree, but I do dislike how PC everything has become, and even more I hate the idea of things becoming more PC than they are right now.
I can honestly say that there are no derogatory terms or phrases you could ever throw directly at me that would upset me. If they get bad enough and mean enough, I will start laughing. The way I see it, if someone is trying to deliberately offend you, then you should pick up a 2x4 with a nail or two in it and hit them in the back of the head with; otherwise get over it.
I can honestly say that there are no derogatory terms or phrases you could ever throw directly at me that would upset me. If they get bad enough and mean enough, I will start laughing. The way I see it, if someone is trying to deliberately offend you, then you should pick up a 2x4 with a nail or two in it and hit them in the back of the head with; otherwise get over it.
08/04/2010
Quote:
Odd - I wonder if I"m just that much older than you or if it was a regional thing (either that your location had it or mine didn't).
Originally posted by
Carrie Ann
Words, for the most part, only have the power you give them.
I grew up on the 80's. "That's so gay!" was standard vocabulary. Not a single one of us, at 12 years old, thought about gay people when we said it.
Just ... more
I grew up on the 80's. "That's so gay!" was standard vocabulary. Not a single one of us, at 12 years old, thought about gay people when we said it.
Just ... more
Words, for the most part, only have the power you give them.
I grew up on the 80's. "That's so gay!" was standard vocabulary. Not a single one of us, at 12 years old, thought about gay people when we said it.
Just like kids don't think of sick people when they say their friend's new ipod is "totally sick, man!"
Just like, being Polish, I don't get my panties in a wad over Polish jokes or, when I was blonde, didn't get mad at blonde jokes. I don't get upset when people talk about BDSM or kink as being deviant.
Words just don't have that much power, to me, unless they're intentionally hurtful. Intent is everything.
I do teach my son to be careful with how he speaks, to not say things that may be hurtful to others, to not run around the mall cussing and acting a fool. But, hell, half the words teenagers use today don't even make sense to me. None of them mean what they actually mean - and I look at "gay" in that context the same way.
I'm not 12 anymore. I rarely say it anymore - though I'll admit that each generation DOES hold on to the words of it's youth.
Just last week a friend of mines mom was telling me how... totally hip she is and how her husband was such a square. I'm guessing she didn't mean the hip bone or the four sided shape... less
I grew up on the 80's. "That's so gay!" was standard vocabulary. Not a single one of us, at 12 years old, thought about gay people when we said it.
Just like kids don't think of sick people when they say their friend's new ipod is "totally sick, man!"
Just like, being Polish, I don't get my panties in a wad over Polish jokes or, when I was blonde, didn't get mad at blonde jokes. I don't get upset when people talk about BDSM or kink as being deviant.
Words just don't have that much power, to me, unless they're intentionally hurtful. Intent is everything.
I do teach my son to be careful with how he speaks, to not say things that may be hurtful to others, to not run around the mall cussing and acting a fool. But, hell, half the words teenagers use today don't even make sense to me. None of them mean what they actually mean - and I look at "gay" in that context the same way.
I'm not 12 anymore. I rarely say it anymore - though I'll admit that each generation DOES hold on to the words of it's youth.
Just last week a friend of mines mom was telling me how... totally hip she is and how her husband was such a square. I'm guessing she didn't mean the hip bone or the four sided shape... less
Lame kind of made sense in the sense of injured or not working properly - gay doesn't. It sounds like someone went grasping for an insult and stuck it in without thinking.
08/04/2010
I dislike when people say "That's so gay!" It typically tends to be people with homophobic tendencies that I see doing this. (I am talking about in person, online is always a whole other ball game.) I'm not generalizing. I just have only known a handfull of people to say this phrase, and when I ask them their opinions on homosexuality, it never goes well. :/ I never correct anyone, it isn't my place, I don't feel. I just don't encourage them to say it or use that phrase myself. I do not find it to be offensive in and of itself, but I dislike any type of homophobic anything.
08/04/2010
I know people (gay and straight) who use it all the time (yes, myself included) and it usually has nothing to do with equating homosexuality itself with being "stupid" or what have you, or revealing inner homophobia. Do some people use it as a slur? Yes, but I can usually tell the difference between them and someone who is just using it to express distaste for something or whatever. Sure, there are other terms of expressing this, but it's a slang phrase that has caught on. As Carrie Ann said, words have only the power you give them. I'm more upset or offended by people's actions than their words.
08/04/2010
Quote:
I'm 40 on the dot.
Originally posted by
ScottA
Odd - I wonder if I"m just that much older than you or if it was a regional thing (either that your location had it or mine didn't).
Lame kind of made sense in the sense of injured or not working properly - gay doesn't. It sounds ... more
Lame kind of made sense in the sense of injured or not working properly - gay doesn't. It sounds ... more
Odd - I wonder if I"m just that much older than you or if it was a regional thing (either that your location had it or mine didn't).
Lame kind of made sense in the sense of injured or not working properly - gay doesn't. It sounds like someone went grasping for an insult and stuck it in without thinking. less
Lame kind of made sense in the sense of injured or not working properly - gay doesn't. It sounds like someone went grasping for an insult and stuck it in without thinking. less
08/04/2010
Quote:
The difference between Scott Thompson saying "fag" and you, for example, using it is that he is gay and has had this word used against him before to demean him for who is he. He is entitled in every single way to use this word in order to reclaim it and cope with the hatred and/or violence he experienced/s. Straight people really need to think twice before they use this word, however, especially to denote something negative. In a world where straight people are granted privileges that gay people are not, is it really necessary to grasp one more "right" for yourself? The "right" to use a word that really causes appreciable harm to others? No one would say "oh my god, that's so black!" or "oh my god, that's so Jewish!"
Originally posted by
Gary
I have seen people who are gay, use the word like that. Scott Thompson goes out of his way to use the harshest phrases in the most demeaning ways, and Scott Thompson Rules! I do see the point. I don't disagree, but I do dislike how PC everything
...
more
I have seen people who are gay, use the word like that. Scott Thompson goes out of his way to use the harshest phrases in the most demeaning ways, and Scott Thompson Rules! I do see the point. I don't disagree, but I do dislike how PC everything has become, and even more I hate the idea of things becoming more PC than they are right now.
I can honestly say that there are no derogatory terms or phrases you could ever throw directly at me that would upset me. If they get bad enough and mean enough, I will start laughing. The way I see it, if someone is trying to deliberately offend you, then you should pick up a 2x4 with a nail or two in it and hit them in the back of the head with; otherwise get over it. less
I can honestly say that there are no derogatory terms or phrases you could ever throw directly at me that would upset me. If they get bad enough and mean enough, I will start laughing. The way I see it, if someone is trying to deliberately offend you, then you should pick up a 2x4 with a nail or two in it and hit them in the back of the head with; otherwise get over it. less
It's also easier for you not to be offended by words because you haven't been systematically marginalized for your race, gender or sexual orientation. I was jumped and beat up in high school for being queer, and when I hear people say "that's so gay" I am really, really offended. It's nothing to do with being "PC," it's to do with being polite and considerate of the people around you. No one is saying you can't use a word, we're just asking that you don't because it's hurtful. My sincere question to you and other "free speech" crusaders is what's more important: your right to use every single word available to you, or my right to feel safe and valuable to this society and world that we inhabit. Because when people say "that's so gay" I do not feel safe nor do I feel valuable. I'm really tired of this "offended? that's YOUR problem" attitude. If someone is offended by your words then why shouldn't you be responsible for them and consider if they are really necessary? There is no law that says you can't say "that's so gay" and I would never strong arm someone into not saying it. All I can do is ask with sincerity that people consider the necessity of it because it hurts me, and with good reason.
08/04/2010
Quote:
Also, I don't think people being hurt by hate speech being met with "get over it" does a great job of fostering an accepting and "sex positive" community, do you?
Originally posted by
Gary
I have seen people who are gay, use the word like that. Scott Thompson goes out of his way to use the harshest phrases in the most demeaning ways, and Scott Thompson Rules! I do see the point. I don't disagree, but I do dislike how PC everything
...
more
I have seen people who are gay, use the word like that. Scott Thompson goes out of his way to use the harshest phrases in the most demeaning ways, and Scott Thompson Rules! I do see the point. I don't disagree, but I do dislike how PC everything has become, and even more I hate the idea of things becoming more PC than they are right now.
I can honestly say that there are no derogatory terms or phrases you could ever throw directly at me that would upset me. If they get bad enough and mean enough, I will start laughing. The way I see it, if someone is trying to deliberately offend you, then you should pick up a 2x4 with a nail or two in it and hit them in the back of the head with; otherwise get over it. less
I can honestly say that there are no derogatory terms or phrases you could ever throw directly at me that would upset me. If they get bad enough and mean enough, I will start laughing. The way I see it, if someone is trying to deliberately offend you, then you should pick up a 2x4 with a nail or two in it and hit them in the back of the head with; otherwise get over it. less
08/04/2010
Quote:
Ditto and ya it was something that took hold longer than "gag me with a smurf" and other assorted stupidity. I have used the phrase with my homosexual friends to describe something that is so cliche "gay" but it was never meant as an insult and we all laughed uproariously. It's like asking a Wiccan to put running lights on her broom this Halloween so her landing goes smoothly. I had a good friend put a gravestone with my craft name on it next to an obviously crashed broom (smashed into her tree) and a PSA about not testing sex toys and flying. Was meant in the same vein as the catch phrase, "that's so gay" so ya not offensive.
Originally posted by
Carrie Ann
I'm 40 on the dot.
If, however, I knew the person was meaning to degrade or slur sexuality I usually ignore it because getting upset or even acknowledging such an off color joke gives it power. I ignore ignorant jokes all the time or pretend to not understand them so the person feels obliged to explain them, thereby robbing them of their power and making the teller look as stupid as they are being.
Works with polish jokes too. I learned that from a friend who insisted she didn't understand the joke...and she was very polish, like Copernicus (aka Mikolaj Kopernik)! Arch uses a different tactic with polish slurs though, he loudly congratulates the jokester on stringing together some words and then laughs insanely loud and vows to tell his parents all about the new joke...he's even gone so far as to pull out his phone and call his Mom (her sense of humor is just as wicked) and tell her all about the joke...in polish. It's freaking funny as hell.
Still with my own children I will talk to them about how it would feel if someone were to make nasty comments about their beliefs or self identity. I ask them to think about what is coming out of their mouths and then leave it up to them whether they want to look intelligent or ignorant.
08/04/2010
I actually have a bad habit of correcting people in speech, spelling, etc. I tell them they really should use another word since I have gay friends I care about and it hurts me that someone is using the word inappropriately.
08/04/2010
Quote:
People are people... drawing lines and using categorizations doesn't change that. If you are trying to say that because I am thick skinned, and I accept everyone equally regardless of their differences, that really means that I am not sex positive, then I have no logical response for you.
Originally posted by
Owl Identified
Also, I don't think people being hurt by hate speech being met with "get over it" does a great job of fostering an accepting and "sex positive" community, do you?
08/04/2010
Quote:
I think it was pretty clear that Gary was sharing how he feels about how people talk TO him, not how he talks to others or the words he uses. And his point was that really, in any given situation, you have 2 options: do something about it or get over it.
Originally posted by
Owl Identified
The difference between Scott Thompson saying "fag" and you, for example, using it is that he is gay and has had this word used against him before to demean him for who is he. He is entitled in every single way to use this word in order to
...
more
The difference between Scott Thompson saying "fag" and you, for example, using it is that he is gay and has had this word used against him before to demean him for who is he. He is entitled in every single way to use this word in order to reclaim it and cope with the hatred and/or violence he experienced/s. Straight people really need to think twice before they use this word, however, especially to denote something negative. In a world where straight people are granted privileges that gay people are not, is it really necessary to grasp one more "right" for yourself? The "right" to use a word that really causes appreciable harm to others? No one would say "oh my god, that's so black!" or "oh my god, that's so Jewish!"
It's also easier for you not to be offended by words because you haven't been systematically marginalized for your race, gender or sexual orientation. I was jumped and beat up in high school for being queer, and when I hear people say "that's so gay" I am really, really offended. It's nothing to do with being "PC," it's to do with being polite and considerate of the people around you. No one is saying you can't use a word, we're just asking that you don't because it's hurtful. My sincere question to you and other "free speech" crusaders is what's more important: your right to use every single word available to you, or my right to feel safe and valuable to this society and world that we inhabit. Because when people say "that's so gay" I do not feel safe nor do I feel valuable. I'm really tired of this "offended? that's YOUR problem" attitude. If someone is offended by your words then why shouldn't you be responsible for them and consider if they are really necessary? There is no law that says you can't say "that's so gay" and I would never strong arm someone into not saying it. All I can do is ask with sincerity that people consider the necessity of it because it hurts me, and with good reason. less
It's also easier for you not to be offended by words because you haven't been systematically marginalized for your race, gender or sexual orientation. I was jumped and beat up in high school for being queer, and when I hear people say "that's so gay" I am really, really offended. It's nothing to do with being "PC," it's to do with being polite and considerate of the people around you. No one is saying you can't use a word, we're just asking that you don't because it's hurtful. My sincere question to you and other "free speech" crusaders is what's more important: your right to use every single word available to you, or my right to feel safe and valuable to this society and world that we inhabit. Because when people say "that's so gay" I do not feel safe nor do I feel valuable. I'm really tired of this "offended? that's YOUR problem" attitude. If someone is offended by your words then why shouldn't you be responsible for them and consider if they are really necessary? There is no law that says you can't say "that's so gay" and I would never strong arm someone into not saying it. All I can do is ask with sincerity that people consider the necessity of it because it hurts me, and with good reason. less
Perhaps you misunderstood.
I really hope this thread remains civil and productive. It upsets me when people start baiting each other, misunderstanding each other, and making assumptions. I don't mean just you, Sex, Lies & Law - I mean everyone.
It is impossible to say whether someone else has felt marginalized or threatened or disenfranchised - unless you have lived their life. Let's all be open to that fact. Not every person here is willing to share the details - so you just don't know what people have been through. We all come from different places and have different life experiences, and surely every one of us has struggled - so, everyone, please be kind.
08/04/2010
Nothing, cause it has nothing to do with gay people, but I don't know anyone that says that, so I don't really know what I would "really" do.
08/04/2010
Let me explain me vote...I didn't like any of the other ones.
Ok so I don't say what you mean is that's retarded. But, I do make fun of it and say things like "Naw I'm straight". Or if someone asks me how I'm doing and I'm ok, I say "I'm bi". It's an inside joke. I think it is so funny that people have attached those words to things like that.
People who say that's gay aren't even using it as the real meaning, so let them look ignorant.
Ok so I don't say what you mean is that's retarded. But, I do make fun of it and say things like "Naw I'm straight". Or if someone asks me how I'm doing and I'm ok, I say "I'm bi". It's an inside joke. I think it is so funny that people have attached those words to things like that.
People who say that's gay aren't even using it as the real meaning, so let them look ignorant.
08/04/2010
Quote:
This is VERY well said. I totally agree.
Originally posted by
gone77
I know people (gay and straight) who use it all the time (yes, myself included) and it usually has nothing to do with equating homosexuality itself with being "stupid" or what have you, or revealing inner homophobia. Do some people use it
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more
I know people (gay and straight) who use it all the time (yes, myself included) and it usually has nothing to do with equating homosexuality itself with being "stupid" or what have you, or revealing inner homophobia. Do some people use it as a slur? Yes, but I can usually tell the difference between them and someone who is just using it to express distaste for something or whatever. Sure, there are other terms of expressing this, but it's a slang phrase that has caught on. As Carrie Ann said, words have only the power you give them. I'm more upset or offended by people's actions than their words.
less
Maybe I should have chose the Nothing option. Oh well.
08/04/2010
Quote:
Pretty much the same. If it's a close friend or family, I would ask them what they really meant. If it's an acquaintance, I'm not just going to butt in and say "hey, that's wrong."
Originally posted by
Alicia
I wish there was an "other" option because it really depends on the person who said it. If it was my kids..I'd correct them and let them know that it's not what they should say. If it was a random person I'm not going to be
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more
I wish there was an "other" option because it really depends on the person who said it. If it was my kids..I'd correct them and let them know that it's not what they should say. If it was a random person I'm not going to be the word police and correct them. I would think to myself that it's not the right thing to say..but I'm not going to say anything. I'd probably correct my friends or family members too but I don't think I've ever heard them use the word unless they meant homosexual.
Thing is that a lot of words can be taken offensively by a lot of people. Lame, Stupid, Crazy, retarded, can all be taken offensively if you think about their origins and I'm sure there are many many more that I'm just not thinking of right this moment. And sure some of them are more obviously wrong to say, but others people just genuinely don't realize are offensive. So really I can't go around starting arguments with people all day long whenever they say a word that I think is wrong. less
Thing is that a lot of words can be taken offensively by a lot of people. Lame, Stupid, Crazy, retarded, can all be taken offensively if you think about their origins and I'm sure there are many many more that I'm just not thinking of right this moment. And sure some of them are more obviously wrong to say, but others people just genuinely don't realize are offensive. So really I can't go around starting arguments with people all day long whenever they say a word that I think is wrong. less
08/04/2010
I know it's a popular phrase as an exclamation/joke as well as an insult. And I know a lot of people who use it don't mean any harm. But it's still wrong and it infuriates me. If the person is decent and didn't actually mean to be offensive, I'm pretty laid-back about correcting them and won't take it personally. Sometimes they're homophobic neanderthals and I really give them an ass-kicking. It's offensive to someone, even in jest, so why say it?
08/04/2010
Well if you changed it to that's retarded you'd be insulting mentally handicapped people too, so either way you use it you are hurting someones feelings.
08/04/2010
Peoples feelings get hurt way too easily. Taking offense at remarks is a choice - you can choose not to be offended!
08/04/2010
I used to be very offended by that "gay" phrase, but I have relaxed a little in the last few years. I think the comment has become a little removed from the homosexual association. It would never come out of my mouth in public, though. I have heard a gay person use it. I can see why some gays could take great offense to it, even if someone didn't mean it "that way".
I am offended by blond jokes. No one seems to understand, often they say that such jokes are not meant to taken seriously. I know. But I have heard it half-seriously, too. It hurts my feelings. I do seem to get jobs more easily when my hair is another color...so maybe such words do have an effect...
I am offended by blond jokes. No one seems to understand, often they say that such jokes are not meant to taken seriously. I know. But I have heard it half-seriously, too. It hurts my feelings. I do seem to get jobs more easily when my hair is another color...so maybe such words do have an effect...
08/04/2010
Before blondes, it used to be red-heads until...70's? Before my time, at least.
08/04/2010
I tell them to not use that term in that context and I also say that it's offensive and ignorant. And I am REALLY disappointed in that last option on the poll. The term "retarded" is NO BETTER than using "gay" incorrectly.
08/04/2010
I don't see it as insulting, but my husband, who is bisexual will give me "the look" if it slips out, which is very seldom, so I try to be more sensitive about using it.
08/04/2010
And honestly, why do people feel the need to use the terms "gay" or "retarded" in exchange for stupid or silly? Can they not just say the latter? I am at a loss of understanding here, regardless of the whole "words have the meaning you give them."
I also do not feel that just because homosexuals use it is it any better, or an excuse.
I also do not feel that just because homosexuals use it is it any better, or an excuse.
08/04/2010