I'm astounded! Women often say they are victimized by sexist stereo types - isn't this simply an offensive male stereotype?

Ditto. I love it too and it make me horny as well, giving her pleasure and tasting her...etc. I consider myself a very giving lover.

As a side-effect, it might give you an ego boost to really make someone cum and please them, but that's never the motivation.

Kant...interesting...t hat takes me back to college days. Nice post. St. Augustine was a real masochist too from what I remember.

That's good to know. Mind if I ask, though, why you find the word "stupid?"

Completely! However, I hear things like this really often. Most people don't EVEN REALIZE it's sexist when they say things like this. I was so shocked to even hear it, especially coming from a male. I figured, as I said, that it was likely just HIM thinking this way & assuming all men do. I know for sure not all men do, but just hearing it made me really interested to hear from everyone here. I knew you guys would elaborate, which I really appreciate. I wondered if others here would have a similar reaction as I did to the statement. Glad to know I am not alone in my thinking too.

Oh neat! I think we are really similar to each other -- my partner and I and you and your hubby. It seems like you and I have similar thinking a lot of times. I notice a lot of things you post about are things I've either questioned myself or have recently discussed. That's neat to me. Great minds think alike!

Anyways, that sounds like us. He wouldn't want sex if I wasn't having fun. And same for me, if he isn't having an awesome time, I'm going to want to pause and figure out how to make him, although I have to admit, that's never happened so I consider myself lucky there. Lol. He's much quicker than me to be pleased. I just wish it didn't take so much effort for me, but what can we do? We were simply built differently. Thankfully, in his eyes, it's all part of the fun.

I like what you said there -- Foreplay is a mutual activity and the teasing and build up is part of the fun for the male too. Really great way to explain that. I think so too. I've had partners that literally didn't give two damns if I was in pain or totally not wanting to be there, and then I've had my current partner who, my pleasure matters to him just as much as anything.

Trysexual Sorry for not responding separately to you, and the rest. I just realized I was making this thread really long by doing that, but my response to each of you is all equally special. I appreciate you sharing your feelings. That's nice to hear! I think that's a healthy way about it -- doing it because you truly enjoy giving to them and still feeling pretty nice about being able to give them an orgasm. The fact that the feelings you get from it alone is not the motivation is a good thing, IMO. It's a great thing to be able to do that for the person you love & I can't say it enough -- it is something that one deserves to feel good about and feel happy with themselves over. It's amazing to have a partner who loves doing it with you, though. It makes it so much more fun, doesn't it?

CE As I said in my post, it was a man who said it. Perhaps he wanted to just make all men look badly, though. To answer your question "does the motive really matter?" Yes, to me it does. I say this because I have been on both sides -- the side where my male partner didn't give two lovely damns about whether or not I was pleased and my current partner who cares loads about it. Also, another difference was the passion and love. That other partner didn't care anymore about me than he did my pleasure. Didn't love me. No passion. I was just a hole. So I DID feel a difference. I only got a very bad job of "foreplay" which was nothing more than rough crotch-rubbing and did that feel very good to me? No. It didn't feel good to be told that the only reason he was even bothering with that alone was to get some head either. Now, compare that to my current partner who loves me & who has a lot of passion when we're in the sack. He cares about my pleausre, bottom line. It's about the two of us, never just one of us. So the motives do matter because crappy motives = crappy sex. I don't want to get an orgasm only to later be required to do something I've never been comfortable doing. So it does matter. It matters when the sex can be amazing or it can be lukewarm. That's just me though.

Homeless people... dinner... ? I was talking about foreplay... totally different things!

Again, as I've said. I never said that it was wrong to feel good about doing it when you actually enjoy and want to make your partner orgasm! I said I personally thought what the guy told me he and "all men" did was selfish. If you didn't "LOVE making your girl cum" it would be a different story, I think. It should make you feel happy with yourself to be able to create something in your partner that feels amazing to her. There's a difference though, if you didn't like it or care about her actually getting pleasure, but only cared about bragging rights or only did it out of obligation or whatever. I think you may have thought that I said it was wrong to feel good when you do give your partner an orgasm and feel happy with yourself. I said "nothing wrong with feeling happy/pleased with yourseelf for doing it," but that there are apparently more reasons people do it -- out of guilt, just to get something in return or just so you feel good about yourself. Big differences.

Well, thank you guys all so much for your comments! I've really enjoyed this discussion and reading what you all think. It definitely confirmed what I thought when I was told those things. It's also really amazing to hear that so many people love to please each other. That's awesome. And as I said once a while ago, ain't it so much more fun when both are involved in the giving and getting? It's fun to enjoy pleasing your partner & having fun with each other without those extra feelings of "I'm only doing it so they'll do something for me" or "yay, I'll get to brag about this later" or "Well, I guess I have to since they did something for me."