So...is it true? If you live with the guy...and he get's it "free", is there LESS drive to "put a ring on it..and say I DO" or does it really NOT matter and this "myth is busted"????? We had a BIG discussion with friends about that one! One of their daughters was being seriously courted by a nice guy. She had to move to find a good job, he followed. To "save money" they moved in together and now, the "marriage", which was going to be in about a year at most, is now THREE YEARS LATE and she keeps complaining he is "always making excuses now" and just does not want to commit. Hummmmm??? SO, how true IS it?
Myth or truth? (ready for this one?....) IF YOU GET THE MILK FOR FREE...is there ANY REASON TO BUY THE COW?? (yes, your GREAT GRANDMA DID USE THIS SAYING!!!!)
10/28/2011
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If you enjoy being around and caring for the cow, enough so to want the cow to yourself because you think the cow enhances your life and, dare I say it, you come to in fact Love the cow, whether or not you already get the milk for free doesn't really matter. Because you want the cow.
To say that men would no longer want women as long as they could have sex basically assumes that the only thing women have to offer anyone is sex. If a man's experience with women has led him to believe that, then he apparently has horrible taste in women. If a woman believes that and isn't 100 years old, that's just sad.
If the guy isn't comfortable marrying the girl, it's not simply because he's getting sex. It's because he's insecure about their relationship and what marriage might change. It is a big investment. Whether or not he's getting laid has nothing to do with it. They should reanalyze why they wanted to get married, why it hasn't happened, and where they should go from there. If she's really all bent out of shape about it, and he actually wants to marry her, they will.
To say that men would no longer want women as long as they could have sex basically assumes that the only thing women have to offer anyone is sex. If a man's experience with women has led him to believe that, then he apparently has horrible taste in women. If a woman believes that and isn't 100 years old, that's just sad.
If the guy isn't comfortable marrying the girl, it's not simply because he's getting sex. It's because he's insecure about their relationship and what marriage might change. It is a big investment. Whether or not he's getting laid has nothing to do with it. They should reanalyze why they wanted to get married, why it hasn't happened, and where they should go from there. If she's really all bent out of shape about it, and he actually wants to marry her, they will.
10/28/2011
I think it's entirely dependent on the individual. Plenty of guys won't want to get married for many reasons, plenty will. It's all on an individual basis, like most things. Sure, some men might want to be with someone just for sex, but there are also many many men who want relationships and, indeed, marriage! These things are so subjective and different for everyone.
10/28/2011
I am in agreement with what geliebt has said.
10/28/2011
Well, maybe living with her changed his mind and he's slowing trying to plan his exit strategy.
I think it depends on the individuals. Marriage is a complicated thing in this day and age and any number of things can sway a person into one camp or another.
I think it depends on the individuals. Marriage is a complicated thing in this day and age and any number of things can sway a person into one camp or another.
10/28/2011
It would really depend on where you are in life. Sometimes you do not get the compatibility, stability or communication in a relationship that worked until you lived together. Then you figured out what components are missing or need to be worked on. If those issues are not resolved, why marry them just to divorce them later? If all the components are there for both people having sex prior to marriage - living together or not - will not affect a marriage happening. I think they are being smart and not making a lifetime commitment until all issues are covered.
10/28/2011
I know many women, myself included, who gave the milk away for free and are now married to the milk recipient.
10/28/2011
I think I'd rather not be a cow to be bought, hence, no "ring on it"... That said, I don't think it matters one way or another if you're having sex, sex isn't the only thing a person has to offer another... And I have to ask: Why do you have to get married to be committed for life?
10/28/2011
It depends on the guy. I would say that most guys over here would much rather just take the milk if it's given free!
It's always in the back of my mind when I meet guys and am deciding what I truly want from them. I won't put out easily. If they want it, they need to want all of me for who I am - unless I just want them for sex.
It's always in the back of my mind when I meet guys and am deciding what I truly want from them. I won't put out easily. If they want it, they need to want all of me for who I am - unless I just want them for sex.
10/28/2011
Quote:
Absolutely.
Originally posted by
geliebt
I think it's entirely dependent on the individual. Plenty of guys won't want to get married for many reasons, plenty will. It's all on an individual basis, like most things. Sure, some men might want to be with someone just for sex, but
...
more
I think it's entirely dependent on the individual. Plenty of guys won't want to get married for many reasons, plenty will. It's all on an individual basis, like most things. Sure, some men might want to be with someone just for sex, but there are also many many men who want relationships and, indeed, marriage! These things are so subjective and different for everyone.
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Übrigens , verstehst du Deutsch?
10/29/2011
That's like saying the only reason to get married is to have sex, and that isn't the case at all. Marriage is about a lot more than sex. Like Tuesday, I gave the milk away for free to my man as well, but that in NO WAY diminished his desire to put on ring on my finger ASAP.
10/29/2011
wow, that's like saying we're equating women to cows and men as free loaders. and i got to agree, that's like saying the only purpose of getting married is to have sex. Which last time I checked, if that's your case, you need to rethink the idea of marriage. Moving together is a great way to find out if you're compatible in the long run. Not just sexually, but whether or not you can live together.
Marriage is a big deal, and honestly, it's no one's business but the couple's whether or not they won't get married. It upsets me that society expects people to date for x amount of time, then get married and possibly be miserable when they may ready at all for such a big commitment.
so the whole free cow, milk, whatever, shouldn't apply because relationships with actual depth don't really compare to farm animals' processes.
Marriage is a big deal, and honestly, it's no one's business but the couple's whether or not they won't get married. It upsets me that society expects people to date for x amount of time, then get married and possibly be miserable when they may ready at all for such a big commitment.
so the whole free cow, milk, whatever, shouldn't apply because relationships with actual depth don't really compare to farm animals' processes.
10/29/2011
Quote:
Ha, ha. VERY well said. Me too!! !
Originally posted by
Tuesday
I know many women, myself included, who gave the milk away for free and are now married to the milk recipient.
11/03/2011
Quote:
What does speaking German have to do with this???
Originally posted by
RonLee
Absolutely.
Übrigens , verstehst du Deutsch?
Übrigens , verstehst du Deutsch?
11/03/2011
I HATE this analogy. Passionately.
It makes the assumption that women do NOT enjoy sex, and that "the milk" (what an odd way to describe sexual congress) is something a woman "gives" and a man "takes", not something they share together.
It also implies that women "save" sex until they get something they want (Oh, we all want to get married in that white dress ever so badly! So badly, in fact, that we will "deny" the person we love and ourselves the joy of sex just so..... he doesn't get "free milk? WTF?) It reduces women to manipulative house shrews and men to... I don't know... farmers? Pigs?
It's stupid and I call anyone on the carpet who uses this stupid analogy.
A healthy couple enjoys sex together, both enjoying the pleasure and offering pleasure to their partner.
This analogy sucks. I wish it would go the way of "23 Skidoo" and other outdated and silly expressions.
I don't like being compared to a cow, and I certainly never made any real milk until I was about 7 months pregnant with my first child... and I see no comparisons to making milk and having sex. None.
It makes the assumption that women do NOT enjoy sex, and that "the milk" (what an odd way to describe sexual congress) is something a woman "gives" and a man "takes", not something they share together.
It also implies that women "save" sex until they get something they want (Oh, we all want to get married in that white dress ever so badly! So badly, in fact, that we will "deny" the person we love and ourselves the joy of sex just so..... he doesn't get "free milk? WTF?) It reduces women to manipulative house shrews and men to... I don't know... farmers? Pigs?
It's stupid and I call anyone on the carpet who uses this stupid analogy.
A healthy couple enjoys sex together, both enjoying the pleasure and offering pleasure to their partner.
This analogy sucks. I wish it would go the way of "23 Skidoo" and other outdated and silly expressions.
I don't like being compared to a cow, and I certainly never made any real milk until I was about 7 months pregnant with my first child... and I see no comparisons to making milk and having sex. None.
11/03/2011
As for "Is it true?" No, of course not. Few couples wait until marriage to have sex (and as we've seen, even in this very forum, some who do are unpleasantly surprised with the lack of effort their partner puts forth and their own lack of satisfaction) and IMO, healthy people "test drive the car before they buy it."
My husband and I fucked like rabbits for years before we got married. But, we got married, because we wanted to, not because I manipulated him with withholding sex. I've had sex with men I had no intention of marrying, but did it just for the sex. I see no application of this analogy in modern day life, if it ever had an application. Maybe for women who don't like sex and only use it as a tool to "get things?" I don't know, I tend to avoid those kinds of people.
Bignuf, if your daughter hasn't gotten married yet, is is NOT because she and her man are living together and having sex. It's most likely due to two things; 1) the fact that they like their life the way it is and see no reason to get married at the moment and 2) the economy. Our oldest has no desire to marry her fiance of several years, although they live together. The economy and the fact that they don't want children and see no economic necessity to marry are the reasons.
My husband and I fucked like rabbits for years before we got married. But, we got married, because we wanted to, not because I manipulated him with withholding sex. I've had sex with men I had no intention of marrying, but did it just for the sex. I see no application of this analogy in modern day life, if it ever had an application. Maybe for women who don't like sex and only use it as a tool to "get things?" I don't know, I tend to avoid those kinds of people.
Bignuf, if your daughter hasn't gotten married yet, is is NOT because she and her man are living together and having sex. It's most likely due to two things; 1) the fact that they like their life the way it is and see no reason to get married at the moment and 2) the economy. Our oldest has no desire to marry her fiance of several years, although they live together. The economy and the fact that they don't want children and see no economic necessity to marry are the reasons.
11/03/2011
Quote:
As far as it was addressed to geliebt, I guess, it was her nickname to arise the question
Originally posted by
Bignuf
What does speaking German have to do with this???
11/03/2011
That's not a myth, that's a rough generalization. It surely depends on an individual, but as a norm the decision about marriage shouldn't be dependent on sex in any way. Moreover, there are also girls who won't marry, because they get everything they want without any commitment. So it's not only about guys nowadays.
As for me... We used to date for a year without sex and he was still there. Now we are still together and "free sex" is the last thing to blame for us not being married. We are just not there yet
As for me... We used to date for a year without sex and he was still there. Now we are still together and "free sex" is the last thing to blame for us not being married. We are just not there yet
11/03/2011
Quote:
True, that is what prompted the question.
Originally posted by
Valentinka
As far as it was addressed to geliebt, I guess, it was her nickname to arise the question
BTW I did not get an answer.
Bignuff, were you perturbed by that side question?
11/03/2011
I think it depends on the person, but I haven't heard of this being an issue for any of my friends/relatives.
11/03/2011
Quote:
I think that some people are overthinking this analogy. I think this saying today would relate more to living together before marriage, not sex before marriage. I feel that when you live with your partner before marriage they don't feel like they need to marry you to keep you around. You are already there. If you are dating but living seperately you are really still on the market. Their is nothing keeping you with the other person. Just saying....
Originally posted by
Bignuf
So...is it true? If you live with the guy...and he get's it "free", is there LESS drive to "put a ring on it..and say I DO" or does it really NOT matter and this "myth is busted"????? We had a BIG discussion with
...
more
So...is it true? If you live with the guy...and he get's it "free", is there LESS drive to "put a ring on it..and say I DO" or does it really NOT matter and this "myth is busted"????? We had a BIG discussion with friends about that one! One of their daughters was being seriously courted by a nice guy. She had to move to find a good job, he followed. To "save money" they moved in together and now, the "marriage", which was going to be in about a year at most, is now THREE YEARS LATE and she keeps complaining he is "always making excuses now" and just does not want to commit. Hummmmm??? SO, how true IS it?
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11/03/2011
Quote:
I just love the way you put this.
Originally posted by
Tuesday
I know many women, myself included, who gave the milk away for free and are now married to the milk recipient.
11/03/2011
Quote:
LOL, This was a good way to put it. I agree and I was that women also. I even had a son with my husband before he bought the cow(me).
Originally posted by
Tuesday
I know many women, myself included, who gave the milk away for free and are now married to the milk recipient.
11/03/2011
Quote:
Good point!
Originally posted by
T-n-T
I think that some people are overthinking this analogy. I think this saying today would relate more to living together before marriage, not sex before marriage. I feel that when you live with your partner before marriage they don't feel like they
...
more
I think that some people are overthinking this analogy. I think this saying today would relate more to living together before marriage, not sex before marriage. I feel that when you live with your partner before marriage they don't feel like they need to marry you to keep you around. You are already there. If you are dating but living seperately you are really still on the market. Their is nothing keeping you with the other person. Just saying....
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11/03/2011
All about the person!
11/04/2011
Quote:
except marriage kind of makes this more permanent, and more government beneficial.
Originally posted by
T-n-T
I think that some people are overthinking this analogy. I think this saying today would relate more to living together before marriage, not sex before marriage. I feel that when you live with your partner before marriage they don't feel like they
...
more
I think that some people are overthinking this analogy. I think this saying today would relate more to living together before marriage, not sex before marriage. I feel that when you live with your partner before marriage they don't feel like they need to marry you to keep you around. You are already there. If you are dating but living seperately you are really still on the market. Their is nothing keeping you with the other person. Just saying....
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and i'd like to think the people that I'm dating aren't still "on the market" just because we're not living together. there's going to be a lot to keep us together, like love, commitment and loyalty. and I (i'm sure a lot of other people would agree) that that shouldn't be filed under "nothing". I'd just like to put that out there
11/04/2011
Quote:
When this ridiculous saying came into usage (probably post Victorian Era or so) people simply did not live with a member of the opposite sex without being married or related to them.
Originally posted by
T-n-T
I think that some people are overthinking this analogy. I think this saying today would relate more to living together before marriage, not sex before marriage. I feel that when you live with your partner before marriage they don't feel like they
...
more
I think that some people are overthinking this analogy. I think this saying today would relate more to living together before marriage, not sex before marriage. I feel that when you live with your partner before marriage they don't feel like they need to marry you to keep you around. You are already there. If you are dating but living seperately you are really still on the market. Their is nothing keeping you with the other person. Just saying....
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It simply was not done. And it was terribly frowned upon by society and even illegal in many states.
Frank Lloyd Wright, the famous architect, lived with three women (one at a time) after leaving his wife. At one terrible point in his life, the town near his home wanted him literally run out of town and/or arrested for "indecency" and " indecent co-habitation" was illegal in Wisconsin, where he lived at the time. Shortly after this, his lover, her children and several work men were murdered on the property by an insane servant. People said Wright "got what he deserved for living in sin." This was in the late 19-teens.
When he and his third lover had a child together out of "wedlock" there were threats of having the baby taken away, and they were literally run out of the country to live peacefully in Europe, where such behavior was given much more tolerance in the 1930s or so.
"Living together" is a recent phenomenon among middle class people in our society. And by "recent" I mean only accepted by many in the last 20 years or so.
The original "milk for free" silliness was about women who "gave sex away." As if they didn't get anything out of it.
I do have to say that in the limited number of people I have known, both my generation and my children's most people DO live together before marriage and it hasn't had a poor impact on the percentage of people eventually getting married.
11/04/2011
Quote:
There are "partners" you love and have the feeling of "OMG--I need this person to be complete" and there are those that you care for and enjoy life with but have no need to share an entire lifetime with. Whichever category you fall into, it really doesn't matter as long as it works for both. BUT if one partner wants marriage, and it is clearly the case that the other cares, but just wants the "benefits" then it is not a great relationship. As long as both are getting what they want/need it will work out and both will be happy. In the case example you sited, I would say it is time for the woman to "move n" so to say.
Originally posted by
Bignuf
So...is it true? If you live with the guy...and he get's it "free", is there LESS drive to "put a ring on it..and say I DO" or does it really NOT matter and this "myth is busted"????? We had a BIG discussion with
...
more
So...is it true? If you live with the guy...and he get's it "free", is there LESS drive to "put a ring on it..and say I DO" or does it really NOT matter and this "myth is busted"????? We had a BIG discussion with friends about that one! One of their daughters was being seriously courted by a nice guy. She had to move to find a good job, he followed. To "save money" they moved in together and now, the "marriage", which was going to be in about a year at most, is now THREE YEARS LATE and she keeps complaining he is "always making excuses now" and just does not want to commit. Hummmmm??? SO, how true IS it?
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11/05/2011
Quote:
BUT, statistics do bear out that couples living together before marriage have a higher rate of divorce. HOWEVER, the difference in divorce rates between pre-marital cohabitation and those who were not cohabitating (I haven't seen statistics on "virgins" who marry) is getting closer and closer, signafying a trent away from marriage in coupls with and without children.
Originally posted by
P'Gell
When this ridiculous saying came into usage (probably post Victorian Era or so) people simply did not live with a member of the opposite sex without being married or related to them.
It simply was not done. And it was terribly frowned upon by ... more
It simply was not done. And it was terribly frowned upon by ... more
When this ridiculous saying came into usage (probably post Victorian Era or so) people simply did not live with a member of the opposite sex without being married or related to them.
It simply was not done. And it was terribly frowned upon by society and even illegal in many states.
Frank Lloyd Wright, the famous architect, lived with three women (one at a time) after leaving his wife. At one terrible point in his life, the town near his home wanted him literally run out of town and/or arrested for "indecency" and " indecent co-habitation" was illegal in Wisconsin, where he lived at the time. Shortly after this, his lover, her children and several work men were murdered on the property by an insane servant. People said Wright "got what he deserved for living in sin." This was in the late 19-teens.
When he and his third lover had a child together out of "wedlock" there were threats of having the baby taken away, and they were literally run out of the country to live peacefully in Europe, where such behavior was given much more tolerance in the 1930s or so.
"Living together" is a recent phenomenon among middle class people in our society. And by "recent" I mean only accepted by many in the last 20 years or so.
The original "milk for free" silliness was about women who "gave sex away." As if they didn't get anything out of it.
I do have to say that in the limited number of people I have known, both my generation and my children's most people DO live together before marriage and it hasn't had a poor impact on the percentage of people eventually getting married. less
It simply was not done. And it was terribly frowned upon by society and even illegal in many states.
Frank Lloyd Wright, the famous architect, lived with three women (one at a time) after leaving his wife. At one terrible point in his life, the town near his home wanted him literally run out of town and/or arrested for "indecency" and " indecent co-habitation" was illegal in Wisconsin, where he lived at the time. Shortly after this, his lover, her children and several work men were murdered on the property by an insane servant. People said Wright "got what he deserved for living in sin." This was in the late 19-teens.
When he and his third lover had a child together out of "wedlock" there were threats of having the baby taken away, and they were literally run out of the country to live peacefully in Europe, where such behavior was given much more tolerance in the 1930s or so.
"Living together" is a recent phenomenon among middle class people in our society. And by "recent" I mean only accepted by many in the last 20 years or so.
The original "milk for free" silliness was about women who "gave sex away." As if they didn't get anything out of it.
I do have to say that in the limited number of people I have known, both my generation and my children's most people DO live together before marriage and it hasn't had a poor impact on the percentage of people eventually getting married. less
11/05/2011
Maybe they just don't want marriage. Society seems to assume that marriage is inevitable and desired. Maybe people just don't want to get married, maybe living together and marriage re the same, just without a pointless ceremony and a contract.
Aside from the tax benefits and difficulty of ending the relationship, marriage is just a legal fiction. two people are the same after marriage as two people living together, except perhaps for a person's commitment to the relationship, but that's mental, not legal.
Besides, if you're so insecure about a relationship, you ned your partner to sign a contract saying they'll never leave and shove them in front of a crowd to shame them into staying, the relationship probably won't last a kardashian.
Aside from the tax benefits and difficulty of ending the relationship, marriage is just a legal fiction. two people are the same after marriage as two people living together, except perhaps for a person's commitment to the relationship, but that's mental, not legal.
Besides, if you're so insecure about a relationship, you ned your partner to sign a contract saying they'll never leave and shove them in front of a crowd to shame them into staying, the relationship probably won't last a kardashian.
11/05/2011