The New Intimacy

Are you angry that the USA has given up it's manned space program?

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Contributor: Bignuf Bignuf
The real sign we have no space program is that the VEHICLE ASSEMBLY BUILDING at CAPE CANAVERAL is now open to the public for tours, not building space craft.

When at the height of our space exploration, a degree from an American university was worth gold. We were at the cutting edge of developmental technology. Every major scientific discovery, from microchips to teflon, from GPS to high temp ceramics, spun off the space program...RIGHT HERE in the USA!!!

Even the "money spent in space" was NEVER "money spend in space", but right here, in the USA, on JOBS, and HARDWARE. It supported a huge aerospace industry that gave us amazing travel, satellite radio and TV, GPS navigation and a million other great benefits that touch our lives daily.

Every dollar "spent" on NASA improved our economy by about $7 in real "GDP" (Gross Domestic Product). Better then almost any other government spending, EVER.

SO now, not only do we have NO manned space program , and are losing DECADES of talent in math, science and technology, but we must pay Russia tens of millions to hitch a ride with them, IF we want to get the space station that we, the US Taxpayers built???? (97% of cost was USA).

How do YOU feel about this? I, personally, think we need to IMMEDIATELY restore our manned space program and we need a president with the kind of vision and "game" that JFK had, to set an "unreachable" goal...that we WILL end up reaching.
10/27/2011
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Contributor: Ms. Spice Ms. Spice
well, we need to cut costs right now because of our deficit, and the program is coming back in a few years. It's not outright shut down, more like on a short hiatus.

if you want the space program restored, be prepared for more tax raises. Honestly, the country needs to worry about our broken economy and our crappy health care system before we worry about the luxuries (read: space program). so no, can't say I'm mad. Just one less thing that we need to worry about for the time being.
10/27/2011
Contributor: SexyTabby SexyTabby
I think it's sad to be honest. Ms. Spice is right though. Had the wonderful government had the countries best interest at heart instead of lining their individual pockets we could have a strong economy, health care and a space program running strong today. As it is we need to take care of our issues before we can rejoin the space adventure.

There are just so many issues that effect the life and death of so many people today that things like this have to take a back seat.
10/27/2011
Contributor: Bignuf Bignuf
Quote:
Originally posted by Ms. Spice
well, we need to cut costs right now because of our deficit, and the program is coming back in a few years. It's not outright shut down, more like on a short hiatus.

if you want the space program restored, be prepared for more tax raises. ... more
Actually, a hiatus is wrong. It will take decades to recreate the talent base that has moved on to other areas. We have LOST a team that cannot be recreated overnight or even in a decade. VERY short sighted. As for cost cutting. No question, I am the biggest fiscal conservative, but the amount of USA jobs lost, industry hampered and technology drive lost by shutting this down has made it's initial cost pale. In short, the decision was "penny wise, pound foolish" in the worst way. Space exploration was not really a luxury..it was, in fact, a technology driver. We keep giving up everything that MADE or economy powerful, and are slowly sliding into third world status (yes, none of them have space programs). That is the nation I DON'T want to hand my kids and grand kids, but which some short sighted leaders feel compelled to create for them.
10/27/2011
Contributor: Jul!a Jul!a
Quote:
Originally posted by Ms. Spice
well, we need to cut costs right now because of our deficit, and the program is coming back in a few years. It's not outright shut down, more like on a short hiatus.

if you want the space program restored, be prepared for more tax raises. ... more
These are pretty much my feelings too. I'm not angry that a luxury was cut so we could focus on re-prioritizing more basic necessities. In my opinion, health care is much more important than the space program and I'd rather work on that right now because unless the key to getting everybody healthy is to move them all to space, then space doesn't need our focus at the moment.
10/27/2011
Contributor: Bignuf Bignuf
Quote:
Originally posted by SexyTabby
I think it's sad to be honest. Ms. Spice is right though. Had the wonderful government had the countries best interest at heart instead of lining their individual pockets we could have a strong economy, health care and a space program running ... more
Do a bit of research on the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost in aerospace, technology, tourism even, and all the support that goes with it (supermarkets, to schools) in those areas that supported NASA, from Florida, to Alabama and Texas. We don't improve the economy by not only further crippling it (which this HORRIBLE decision did do), but by making sure our college educated and most contributory sector to future growth are unemployed. I fear this short sighted "cost cut" (driven by things, I fear, more then cost cutting, but politics), will further speed our slide into third world status.
10/27/2011
Contributor: Bignuf Bignuf
link

"23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement"



link

End of NASA shuttle program means loss of “dream jobs”


Explain how THIS helps our economy?
10/27/2011
Contributor: Chilipepper Chilipepper
Living on the Space Coast, I can say that nothing has changed for us. Satellites still go up on rockets. The lack of jobs is still at an all-time high (Forbes magazine declared Brevard County to be the worst area in the nation for finding a job). We're still a service-sector/healthc are-based job area with an hourly wage of just barely above minimum wage. Ten years ago $8/hr was ideal in the service sector since min wage was $5.15/hr; the employers have kept it at $8/hr and have not adjusted to inflation or rise of min wage which is now $7.31/hr (oh, and office professionals hardly do any better at $10/hr).

Now, yes, I am also disappointed over the cancellation of the shuttle program. But a lot of us also know the shuttles were getting way too old to continue their missions (noticed the increase in postponements due to something mechanical over the past ten years?), and there has not been a continuous development of space craft during all this time like there should have been. Time caught up with sitting on the laurels; it's time to go back to the drawing board and be innovative again. And that's cheaper than mounting missions into space at this time.

Money spent on NASA coming back into the community? Heh. Everything around here are box stores and national chains - employees still get paid the same wages, and the profits went to our Masters who live somewhere else.

Like I said, nothing has changed for us who live here.

BTW - Harris Corp. is a bigger employer compared to NASA, and they're still here.
10/27/2011
Contributor: Ansley Ansley
I'm not upset at all and to be perfectly honest I was quite pissed that tax payers were footing the bill in the first place. I have always thought that it should be a private-sector business and if they can't foot their own bills, well then too bad so sad. There are more important things going on in this world than trying to get back to the moon. And you know what? If they heard me bitching about not being able to support myself, that's pretty much exactly what they'd say to me.
10/27/2011
Contributor: Chilipepper Chilipepper
The VAB is only open to tourists for a limited time. It's not part of the permanent tour.

link
10/27/2011
Contributor: Gunsmoke Gunsmoke
Quote:
Originally posted by Bignuf
Do a bit of research on the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost in aerospace, technology, tourism even, and all the support that goes with it (supermarkets, to schools) in those areas that supported NASA, from Florida, to Alabama and Texas. We ... more
You're suggesting that NASA is a jobs program. There are more efficient ways of creating jobs.

I'm a child of the race to the moon and have very mixed emotions. The space race was the cold war wrapped in a civilian cloak - truth be known it was largely a military enterprise. As a practical matter it did help defeat the Soviet Union when they found that central planning could not defeat free enterprise.

The new threat is from China - but the equation is different, we are so in debt to China that we can't even control our own destiny. Until we get our fiscal house in order - sending up space cowboys is simply a luxury we can't afford.

There is limited utility in space. A little history - scheduled trips to the moon we canceled because we learned that we lucky to get our astronauts home alive. When it was learned that solar flares could kill astronauts on the moon in their tracks - and there was no way to protect them - future missions we canceled.

As for the ISS - in less than 10 years the billions spent are going to come flaming back to earth in a ball of fire.

Manned space may be 'prestigious' but as the Europeans have proven - it's not vital to having a high standard of living.

Like war - much of space exploration is done with drones, they can survive CMEs and other space catastrophes - and when they don't, people don't die.

As others have said, we are transitioning to a more public sector space program that will be more cost effective and accountable - hopefully there will be less waste.

The fastest way to 3rd world status would be to keep borrowing money from China to finance space travel!
10/27/2011
Contributor: Bignuf Bignuf
Quote:
Originally posted by Chilipepper
Living on the Space Coast, I can say that nothing has changed for us. Satellites still go up on rockets. The lack of jobs is still at an all-time high (Forbes magazine declared Brevard County to be the worst area in the nation for finding a job). ... more
Interesting to hear from someone that DOES live there. Thanks for that local insight.
10/28/2011
Contributor: Bignuf Bignuf
Quote:
Originally posted by Gunsmoke
You're suggesting that NASA is a jobs program. There are more efficient ways of creating jobs.

I'm a child of the race to the moon and have very mixed emotions. The space race was the cold war wrapped in a civilian cloak - truth be ... more
Well argued points. I don't think, however, it is a jobs program. Let's think about the fact that we must now rely on the Chinese for some critical communication satellites or on the Russians to get access to our own space hardware. From a national security standpoint, from the standpoint of essential infrastructure, like communication and surveillance, it seems that we are giving up our control and security to others. As a fiscal conservative, I DO understand the money issues being spoken of by everyone else responding here...and am kind of torn about it. On the other hand, some things, such as access to the "high ground" and national medical research (NIH, CDC) are still best conducted by a LARGE government entity and are SO essential that you cannot put them on the back burner for a few years, without destroying the organization, teams and indeed, talent pool, for many decades to come. I wonder if the private sector really can pick up the slack? We shall see, I guess.

It is all part of my strong desire to turn over a better, stronger, wealthier, nation to my children, as other generations HAVE done. Sadly, I am NOT sure I see that happening.
10/28/2011
Contributor: Gunsmoke Gunsmoke
Quote:
Originally posted by Bignuf
Well argued points. I don't think, however, it is a jobs program. Let's think about the fact that we must now rely on the Chinese for some critical communication satellites or on the Russians to get access to our own space hardware. From a ... more
Human space travel has zero to do with satellite launches or national security. We continue to have launch capabilities in both FL & CA. In fact yesterday a bus-sized meteorological satellite was launched from Vandenberg AFB - north of LA.

The ISS will be so much space junk before you know it. Aside from the ISS - why have humans in space? Real and permanent good comes from the CDC & NIH, sad to say that there is little valuable research coming out of the ISS. It's just a freak show of useless science.

There is a huge difference between having space capabilities and having human flight. As with the military reconnaissance , 90% of what needs done is best done by satellites and drones. In space the hazards make satellites and drones a far more preferable option.

I just read a story about trying to train astronauts to survive - sane - after a 522 trip to Mars. The problems are insane - literally.

If we abandoned the idea of humans, we could go there and accomplish more with less - and in fact already have. The dirty little secret is there is zero value in going to mars. It's just an obscene diversion of precious resources to subsidize useless science.
10/29/2011