Heard mention, but don't understand.

Heard mention, but don't understand.

El-Jaro El-Jaro
I've read in a couple different places the mention of "heterosexual male sense of entitlement"...what does this mean?

I'm a straight-ish/bi-curiou s guy and I don't feel that I'm owed anything but the chance to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.

I'm starting to worry this is...
04/16/2010
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Sir Sir
I've never heard that. What does that even mean?
04/16/2010
El-Jaro El-Jaro
it was here, in a Sexis article.
04/16/2010
Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
it was here, in a Sexis article.
I still do not understand it... I actually saw that article when it was published and skimmed over it because it angered me. HAHA!!!!
04/16/2010
El-Jaro El-Jaro
I also read it in the 2nd to last story in the "Best Sex Writing 2010" too. I completely disagreed with the writer from nearly the beginning and was distracted by the footnotes (the only essay with them in the whole book).
04/16/2010
Gary Gary
I think that for the most part sexism can quite often have a double standard.
04/16/2010
El-Jaro El-Jaro
I just don't know what I feel I'm entitled to.
04/17/2010
Sir Sir
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
I just don't know what I feel I'm entitled to.
Yeah...same here.....
04/17/2010
Darling Dove Darling Dove
There's a lot of claims about entitlement being tossed around these days to be honest.

Life sucks for everyone. It sucks more if you're different. Logically, the best choice is to punish those who you feel are 'normal'. At least that's how it seems to be when people act like others are at fault for just being who they are.


I might get slapped for this. I've heard the spiel about how people who are entitled (cisgender, heterosexual, christian, white, male, etc)are not at fault, but merely need to be aware of the entitlement to stop being part of the problem. To promote equality. But I really dont understand it either.

As far as I know, when people say you're entitled this is what I think they mean:
You do not have to explain or justify who you are
You have an easier time in general and are not often made fun of
You get hired more readily at jobs without being questioned
You are not as often discriminated against in group or workplace situations
You're 'entitled' to people accepting you for who you are. People do not question you, and you are more likely to have success 'handed' to you. You do not question this success, and have trouble relating to the issues 'non entitled' people face.

Similar stuff. But in that case, then people with natural haircolors are also entitled because its harder to do all those things with a weird ass haircolor. So are people with no tattoos, because visible ink makes people view you differently. So are 'healthy' weighted people or 'sexy' people, since being too thin, too fat, or ugly makes those things harder as well.

So I dont understand it at all. Call me a bigot, call me an entitled swine, call me what you will... But I just see it as everyone having their own individual issues and experiences through life. Thats just me. Maybe I dont get it at all and maybe I explained it wrong. I'm just too old fashioned to understand all this stuff for some reason.
04/17/2010
Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Actually, while DD may not agree with what she wrote, I feel like she hit the nail on the head with many of the examples. There are a lot of benefits automatically afforded (by society) to certain type of people that everyone sort of takes for granted. There seems to be a sort of culmination if you are white and male and straight and people don't even realize when they're favouring these people (or if they are the type who is being favoured).

Granted, it can happen with more superficial things like DD mentioned but hair colour that you have changed is a choice. Gender/identity (mental or physical), sexual orientation and skin colour are not and to constantly have to fight harder for your goals because of things you cannot (nor should you have to) change IS pretty shitty.

To put it plainly, some people will never have the same struggles (for instance, people are generally assumed to be straight until proven otherwise. This isn't problematic if you are straight but sends the message that straight is preferable to everyone else). It's no one's fault to be "born entitled" but a little recognition goes a long way.
04/17/2010
Britni TheVadgeWig Britni TheVadgeWig
It's not so much "entitlement" as it is privilege. The simplest way I've seen it explained is the Male Privilege Checklist.
04/17/2010
Britni TheVadgeWig Britni TheVadgeWig
It's not so much "entitlement" as it is privilege. The simplest way I've seen it explained is the Male Privilege Checklist. This post explains it pretty well, too.
04/17/2010
LikeSunshineDust LikeSunshineDust
Quote:
Originally posted by Britni TheVadgeWig
It's not so much "entitlement" as it is privilege. The simplest way I've seen it explained is the Male Privilege Checklist.
Well put, DD, Adriana, and Britni.

"I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege." says it all.
04/17/2010
El-Jaro El-Jaro
WOW

I am so gravely offended that I can barely put it to words.

If someone is given PERCEIVED preferential treatment, it is NOT a sense of entitlement. It is the OTHER's issue.

I really really hope that no one sees me as this privileged or having some grand sense of entitlement.

From the checklist and the rest of it, it really applies more to Ivy League Republicans than white males as a whole. I really feel bad for people who have taken this to heart as applying to ALL white males. If someone has really taken this to heart, I really hope they can further define who they mad at and not be as hateful, racist, and sexist about it. (I'm not saying DD or BtVV is hateful, racist, sexist, etc. All they did was post).
04/17/2010
El-Jaro El-Jaro
I do think, though, that if you have visible piercings (other than accepted professional), tattoos, and/or hair color out of a bottle they should be comfortable enough in their freedom to be able to do that, but aware of their world enough to know that a person looking to hire a person who represents their company to know that they will most likely NOT get a professional job.

Yes, I have seen pictures of Victoria. I think she rocks a look and is lucky enough to have a job where it's not an issue, but I don't think she could keep up her appearance if she were to apply as an HR manager or something in a white collar setting. (white collar meaning professional. The name coming from white shirts and not the ethnicity of the worker.)
04/17/2010
Darling Dove Darling Dove
Please don't lump me in with the people who believe and preach this stuff.
I know what it is, apparently, but I do NOT agree with it, like I said. It sucks because even though everyone has their own sets of problems, they see things about you, and they make assumptions.

Privilege and entitlement are one of those assumptions. Not every white person's life is wondrous just because they are white, not every man's live is amazing just because he is a man, and not every straight person's life is outstanding just because they are straight... etc.
I agree that it applies much more to the typical rich assholes everyone hates anyways like politicians and such rather than the average person, if it applies at all.

So uh, don't thank me for 'explaining' or posting. I think its a crock. And it IS offensive to men. But multiple topics on the net have taught me that it is OKAY to offend straight white men- they are the only 'un protected' group on the net. Make fun of anything else, you're in shit, but NOBODY will give you crap for saying men suck and are assholes and you hate them all.
At least, not within this community, where there are a number of statements and etc that're pretty fucking offensive to SWM and are generally accepted blindly because its 'trendy' (this is one of them).

Just because history sucks and the world sucks and everything isn't equal yet doesnt mean you punish the people you perceive as having more than you.. seriously.
04/17/2010
El-Jaro El-Jaro
Quote:
Originally posted by Darling Dove
Please don't lump me in with the people who believe and preach this stuff.
I know what it is, apparently, but I do NOT agree with it, like I said. It sucks because even though everyone has their own sets of problems, they see things about ...
I think we're on the same wavelength here DD. I wasn't mad at you or anything. If anything, I appreciate you explaining it, esp if you don't agree with it.

I will thank you for it!
04/18/2010
Gary Gary
Two things here:

01 - This thread is not about positivity!

02 - Labeling and stereotyping are just irresponsible.

Yes you can pick any stereotype that you have ever heard of and find a situation where it fits, but does that make it ok to use that label as a rule? No!
04/19/2010
El-Jaro El-Jaro
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Two things here:

01 - This thread is not about positivity!

02 - Labeling and stereotyping are just irresponsible.

Yes you can pick any stereotype that you have ever heard of and find a situation where it fits, but does that make ...
Sorry Gary and everyone at EF!

I didn't mean to start a negative thread. I just heard about something and didn't know what it was about, so I thought I'd ask around to see if anyone knew about it.

I totally agree with you too, labels and stereotyping aren't cool.
04/19/2010
Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Two things here:

01 - This thread is not about positivity!

02 - Labeling and stereotyping are just irresponsible.

Yes you can pick any stereotype that you have ever heard of and find a situation where it fits, but does that make ...
I am curious if you are implying that male privilege does not exist, Gary.
04/19/2010
Darling Dove Darling Dove
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Two things here:

01 - This thread is not about positivity!

02 - Labeling and stereotyping are just irresponsible.

Yes you can pick any stereotype that you have ever heard of and find a situation where it fits, but does that make ...
01- I see it as more neutral, but I can see where it is offensive and negative as well. Still, its something that exists in the sex blogger and reviewer community with a large degree of prominence- yet this is one of the few places where it's been simplified and put into words as per exactly what it is.

02- I agree. This is just another form of stereotyping for anyone who isn't 'different' enough. All stereotyping is bad. Hate is hate, and hate begets more hate :/
Nobody is going to try to say that some people for whatever reason do not have advantages over others, but these things can all work in reverse as well. Nobody chooses to be the way they are in these senses- gender, sex, and orientation- so its nobody's fault, and nobody should have to suffer for society dragging its feet. Honestly, give it 10, 20, 30 years. Change happens slowly.
04/20/2010
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by El-Jaro
Sorry Gary and everyone at EF!

I didn't mean to start a negative thread. I just heard about something and didn't know what it was about, so I thought I'd ask around to see if anyone knew about it.

I totally agree with you ...
Well... I guess I meant more of the argumentative direction it has taken. I just want to keep everyone getting along.
04/21/2010
Gary Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Adriana Ravenlust
I am curious if you are implying that male privilege does not exist, Gary.
No that is not what I am saying. ALL stereotypes exists. People who fit into all stereotypes exist.

But when you begin to justify stereotyping any group of people, for any reason, you begin building something dangerous. And then when you talk about those justifications publicly and find like minded people it can totally take on a form of its own. This is how every hate group in history has begun.

Is life fair, no. Is everyone guilty of being unfair at times, yes. No matter who you are you will always come across situations where you are the outsider.
04/21/2010
Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
No that is not what I am saying. ALL stereotypes exists. People who fit into all stereotypes exist.

But when you begin to justify stereotyping any group of people, for any reason, you begin building something dangerous. And then when you talk ...
I agree that unfairness does exist but I also believe that talking about it does not have to be an argument (nor was it anywhere near an argument here). In fact, it can be something which opens eyes and helps everyone work together to make positive change.
04/21/2010
El-Jaro El-Jaro
Actually, the tone did change to an accusatory one and I'm really glad Gary stepped in when he did.

The question was answered, maybe this thread should die then?
04/21/2010
Owl Identified Owl Identified
I'm sort of astonished that people actually still argue about whether or not male privilege exists and that they are offended at the notion of having privilege, but, hm, okay. Anyway, ditto all of what Adriana said. Very well put.
04/21/2010
Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Quote:
Originally posted by Owl Identified
I'm sort of astonished that people actually still argue about whether or not male privilege exists and that they are offended at the notion of having privilege, but, hm, okay. Anyway, ditto all of what Adriana said. Very well put.
Thanks!
04/22/2010
Total posts: 27
Unique posters: 8