The New Intimacy

It buuuurns!!!

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Contributor: Rin (aka Nire) Rin (aka Nire)
Finally got around to trying out the free sample of Toyfluid lube that came with my Little Dolly, and I was shocked to find that the stuff burned quite a bit. It washed off right away, thank goodness, but that's the first time I've had that happen. So I'm curious about something...

Here's the ingredients as listed on the packet:
Aqua, Glycerin, Hydroxypropyl, Guar Hydroxypropltrimonium Chloride, Hydroxyethlcellulose, Citric Acid, Phenoxyethanol, Ethylhexylglycerin

Phew, lotta long words. Anyway, I don't think it's the glycerin that burned, since I've used Wet Light before and that also contains glycerin. So I'm wondering if anyone here would know which of the other ingredients might also cause burning. Personally, my brain zeroed in on the citric acid.

For comparison, here's the ingredients for the same lube as listed here on EF:
Aqua, Glycerin, Ethoxydiglycol, Guar Hydroxypropultrimonium Chloride, Hydroxypropylcellulose , Citric Acid, Benzyl Alcohol / Methylisothiazolinone/ Methylchloroisothiazol inone
07/03/2011
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Contributor: Antipova Antipova
Quote:
Originally posted by Rin (aka Nire)
Finally got around to trying out the free sample of Toyfluid lube that came with my Little Dolly, and I was shocked to find that the stuff burned quite a bit. It washed off right away, thank goodness, but that's the first time I've had that ... more
If you wonder whether citric acid is what burned you, grab your bottle of RealLemon (or open up an actual lemon) and see if lemon juice burns you.

I was about to guess phenoxyethanol based on the suffix (I'm sure vodka would burn!), but I looked it up and it seems to be a pretty common sunscreen and other cosmetic ingredient that doesn't have the properties of ethanol non-prefixed. So let me do some more thorough research for you.

Also, are you sure you didn't miss a word after "hydroxypropyl"? That sounds like it needs a noun to be modifying.
07/03/2011
Contributor: Antipova Antipova
Quote:
Originally posted by Antipova
If you wonder whether citric acid is what burned you, grab your bottle of RealLemon (or open up an actual lemon) and see if lemon juice burns you.

I was about to guess phenoxyethanol based on the suffix (I'm sure vodka would burn!), but I ... more
My new guess is the Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, because quaternary ammonium cations can act as surfactants or disinfectants/antimicr obials, and cause skin irritation. I'm not sure which property I'd blame for a burning sensation, but either of those could cause one, I'd wager.

You will probably learn more at the Quats wikipedia page than on the first link.
07/03/2011
Contributor: wetone123 wetone123
I also got a sample of Toy Fluid with one of my new toys. Guess I'll be to scared to use it now. Thanks for the heads up! My baby does not want to be burned!
07/03/2011
Contributor: Rin (aka Nire) Rin (aka Nire)
Quote:
Originally posted by Antipova
My new guess is the Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, because quaternary ammonium cations can act as surfactants or disinfectants/antimicr obials, and cause skin irritation. I'm not sure which property I'd blame for a burning sensation, ... more
Thank you for the links and info! I'm definitely going to look into that - I want to avoid such problems in the future! I'll also try the thing with the lemon, just to see. I never had any problems eating citrus fruits, but just because something can go in one orifice doesn't necessarily mean it can go in another, and I've never heard of citric acid being used in a lube. Learn something new every day, I 'spose.

And yeah, I accidentally put a comma in "Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropltrimonium Chloride". >_< Dangit, words! Work with me, here!
07/03/2011
Contributor: Rin (aka Nire) Rin (aka Nire)
Quote:
Originally posted by wetone123
I also got a sample of Toy Fluid with one of my new toys. Guess I'll be to scared to use it now. Thanks for the heads up! My baby does not want to be burned!
A lot of people really like it, so it could just be me. Like I said, it washed off without any problem, and didn't leave any aftereffects. Maybe just rub on a teeny bit and have a wet washcloth handy? Not that I'll blame you if you just decide to stick with your favorite lubes, instead. If I'd have known, I'd have just gotten out my Wet or Sliquid like I normally do!
07/03/2011
Contributor: Rin (aka Nire) Rin (aka Nire)
Quote:
Originally posted by Rin (aka Nire)
Thank you for the links and info! I'm definitely going to look into that - I want to avoid such problems in the future! I'll also try the thing with the lemon, just to see. I never had any problems eating citrus fruits, but just because ... more
Yeah, I'm an idiot. Wet Light also has citric acid in it. So that's probably not it.
07/03/2011
Contributor: Annemarie Annemarie
A shot in the dark, but, it could be a glycerin allergy. Have you had issues with lubrications with glycerin in them?
07/04/2011
Contributor: Rin (aka Nire) Rin (aka Nire)
Quote:
Originally posted by Annemarie
A shot in the dark, but, it could be a glycerin allergy. Have you had issues with lubrications with glycerin in them?
Like I said, I've used Wet Light without any problems, and that has glycerin. So probably not.
07/04/2011
Contributor: Kindred Kindred
Quote:
Originally posted by Rin (aka Nire)
Thank you for the links and info! I'm definitely going to look into that - I want to avoid such problems in the future! I'll also try the thing with the lemon, just to see. I never had any problems eating citrus fruits, but just because ... more
I don't think the lemon test would be accurate because the acid content is likely not the same as the citric acid included in the lube. Acids in general can cause irritation, but I believe citric acid is commonly included as a preservative and is probably in extremely low amounts.
07/04/2011
Contributor: Jobthingy Jobthingy
Quote:
Originally posted by Kindred
I don't think the lemon test would be accurate because the acid content is likely not the same as the citric acid included in the lube. Acids in general can cause irritation, but I believe citric acid is commonly included as a preservative and ... more
I was thinking the same. Would you purposefully stick pure lemon juice in your eye? No, cause it would hurt. and chances are it will do the same on your bits in pure form.
07/04/2011
Contributor: El-Jaro El-Jaro
I'd think it could be the Ethylhexylglycerin. Something about the description of those bonds bothers me. You see lots of "Ethyls" and "hexyls" in organic chemistry, hyrdocarbons...
07/04/2011
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Antipova
If you wonder whether citric acid is what burned you, grab your bottle of RealLemon (or open up an actual lemon) and see if lemon juice burns you.

I was about to guess phenoxyethanol based on the suffix (I'm sure vodka would burn!), but I ... more
It is HIGHLY doubtful that the burning is from the citric acid. Citric acid is used to buffer overly alkaline substances to a neutral PH and often used as a mild preservative. It is not used in products in enough amounts to cause burning.

My guess would be that the burning is from the glycerin, as that is one of the most irritating substances found in lubes. People become more sensitive to things like glycerin over more and more exposures, also as most products do not tell you the percentages of glycerin, you may have used a lubricant with a much lower amount and not had burning, or you have recently developed a sensitivity.
07/04/2011
Contributor: Airen Wolf Airen Wolf
(EF Review Program Mentor)
Quote:
Originally posted by Rin (aka Nire)
Thank you for the links and info! I'm definitely going to look into that - I want to avoid such problems in the future! I'll also try the thing with the lemon, just to see. I never had any problems eating citrus fruits, but just because ... more
Citric acid is used generally as a scent masker and as an antibacterial. It could be the particular combination of the chemicals is irritating to your skin...those are pretty common ingredients for lube.
07/04/2011
Contributor: G.L. Morrison G.L. Morrison
It's interesting to hear people say that glycerin is an irritant. When I had allergy tests done they used glycerin as the neutral agent. If I had reacted to it, it would have invalidated the tests and left me with a lot of useless itchy bumps (as opposed to useful itchy bumps).
07/04/2011
Contributor: Eucaly Eucaly
If you've suddenly become more sensitive (as happened to me) you might be sensitive to an ingredient that you were fine with before.
07/04/2011
Contributor: Rin (aka Nire) Rin (aka Nire)
I should have clarified: I used Wet Light a few hours after the incident with the Toyfluid, and had no burning reaction. So if it is the glycerin, it's likely a different amount than what's used in the Wet. So I don't think I've developed any new allergies (at least not yet, anyway).

And I re-checked the Wet Light, and it also has citric acid. So that's obviously not it. Not sure why I focused on that one as much as I did.

Nevertheless, at least I now have a few ideas as to what I can keep an eye out for next time I shop for lube. Thanks so much for all the help and suggestions, everybody!

A toast to you all!
07/04/2011
Contributor: El-Jaro El-Jaro
I'm a big fan of Maximus. Too bad it's oos right now!
07/05/2011
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by G.L. Morrison
It's interesting to hear people say that glycerin is an irritant. When I had allergy tests done they used glycerin as the neutral agent. If I had reacted to it, it would have invalidated the tests and left me with a lot of useless itchy bumps (as ... more
Medical glycerin reacts differently when injected into the body than it does when used topically on mucous membranes.

Also, not all people are sensitive to it. However, most allergists now use Normal Saline as a their Neutral Agent in Scratch and Inject Tests.
07/05/2011
Contributor: ScottA ScottA
It's hard to figure these things out sometimes. A quat is definitely a possibility.
Another possibility is that you're reacting to a contaminant in the lube. Once I had a lube that really burned as well and I never could figure out what the problem was.

I am sensitive as well, and for me Maximus is a no-no. It has parabens.

I haven't had any problems with Probe. Check out the company (Davryan labs) - they might still send out free samples.
07/05/2011
Contributor: Antipova Antipova
Quote:
Originally posted by P'Gell
It is HIGHLY doubtful that the burning is from the citric acid. Citric acid is used to buffer overly alkaline substances to a neutral PH and often used as a mild preservative. It is not used in products in enough amounts to cause burning.

My ... more
Right, I was saying it was pretty doubtful that it was citric acid. If my wording sounded otherwise, I apologize. Lots of people hear acid and get spooked but citric acid was super mild, I was trying to say "if you can eat it, it probably isn't very harmful."
07/05/2011
Contributor: P'Gell P'Gell
Quote:
Originally posted by Antipova
Right, I was saying it was pretty doubtful that it was citric acid. If my wording sounded otherwise, I apologize. Lots of people hear acid and get spooked but citric acid was super mild, I was trying to say "if you can eat it, it probably ... more
Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood.

Hugs.
07/05/2011