I wonder what other companies are unreliable in labeling 100% silicone but it isn't.
Great Red. I can't wait to see what you find out.
Great Red. I can't wait to see what you find out.
Material Mis-labeling on Love Pacifier Series...?
03/16/2009
Quote:
Wow! Serious kudos to you and your scientific abilities! I'm definitely interested in the outcome for sure! It's almost like an adult science fair project. =P It would be kind of neat if it were possible to hold such an event. You can bet that I would be there to check it out! =)
Originally posted by
Red
I am an organic chemist, but not in the field of polymers. I have two experiments in mind to test this out that I will do tonight, when the lab is empty. My love pacifier might not survive tho, but I'll take this one for the team.
1) ... more
1) ... more
I am an organic chemist, but not in the field of polymers. I have two experiments in mind to test this out that I will do tonight, when the lab is empty. My love pacifier might not survive tho, but I'll take this one for the team.
1) Silicone is supposedly able to stay flexible to temps down to -100C. TPR, generally, becomes brittle below -25C. I will drop the love pacifier in a -78C bath and see how it fares. This is not going to be conclusive, just suggestive.
2) Silicone is supposed to be insoluble in everything, except acids, and also gnarly reagents that will chemically degrade it. I will attempt to dissolve a chip of the Love pacifier on every single organic solvent I have access to.
I was considering putting a chip of it in for elemental analysis, but my reading has led me to conclude that it will be tough to get a definitive answer, as silicone polymers are many and varied in composition.
Stay tuned for an update! Please note, no matter what I find, I'm just an anonymous person posting on a forum, so take it with a grain of salt.
(and yes, this is fully me procrastinating instead of writing a certain epic document...) less
1) Silicone is supposedly able to stay flexible to temps down to -100C. TPR, generally, becomes brittle below -25C. I will drop the love pacifier in a -78C bath and see how it fares. This is not going to be conclusive, just suggestive.
2) Silicone is supposed to be insoluble in everything, except acids, and also gnarly reagents that will chemically degrade it. I will attempt to dissolve a chip of the Love pacifier on every single organic solvent I have access to.
I was considering putting a chip of it in for elemental analysis, but my reading has led me to conclude that it will be tough to get a definitive answer, as silicone polymers are many and varied in composition.
Stay tuned for an update! Please note, no matter what I find, I'm just an anonymous person posting on a forum, so take it with a grain of salt.
(and yes, this is fully me procrastinating instead of writing a certain epic document...) less
03/16/2009
I emailed Cal Exotics once last year about this when the Love Pacifiers started to be labeled as silicone and the person that emailed me back said it was 100% silicone. I have yet to do a boiling test on mine, but it sure doesn't smell like TPR, even when it's up to your nose.
03/16/2009
I agree with dreamyLove. Mine do not smell, and I have boiled mine. There have been no problems with boiling them.
03/16/2009
Quote:
LOL I read your comment so fast I thought you wrote "Up your nose"
Originally posted by
DreamyLove
I emailed Cal Exotics once last year about this when the Love Pacifiers started to be labeled as silicone and the person that emailed me back said it was 100% silicone. I have yet to do a boiling test on mine, but it sure doesn't smell like TPR,
...
more
I emailed Cal Exotics once last year about this when the Love Pacifiers started to be labeled as silicone and the person that emailed me back said it was 100% silicone. I have yet to do a boiling test on mine, but it sure doesn't smell like TPR, even when it's up to your nose.
less
03/17/2009
So, I put it to the test. My love pacifier stayed very malleable at -78C, not at all brittle. In fact, I would say it's "bendability" stayed the exact same as it is at room temperature, and as it is after it comes out of a pot of boiling water.
But I don't know enough about TPR blends to say that this for sure means it's not TPR. The reading I've done says TPR blends tend to get brittle somewhere around -25C.
As for dissolving it....well, my love pacifier is now missing a chunk (just in the handle), which I cut up into 8 pieces and put into vials with a variety of solvents, and it didn't seem to dissolve in anything. I put it in hexanes (think: gasoline), acetone (think: nail polish remover), toluene (think: paint thinner), as well as ethyl acetate, butanol, dimethyl sulphoxide, dicholoromethane and tetrahydrofuran. And of course, it doesn't dissolve in water either. *shrug*. I'll check in on the silicone chunks tomorrow, and in a few days, to see if they're swelling and/or dissolving. I will also eventually dry down the solvents to see if they've extracted anything (if anything is dissolving out of this material I will be able to see a residue)....but preliminary results say this stuff is pretty inert to these organic solvents.
Now I should note, there are some pretty skookum plastics out there that are pretty solvent resistant. However, they're real spendy. It wouldn't make much sense, in my mind, to go to the trouble of labeling something as 100% silicone, and then making it out of high quality plastics instead of silicone - we're talking the same price category here, at least in lab land.
As noted previously, I will follow up in a few days, I am still quite open to seeing the error in my ways here (please chime in if you have any other info), and although I am an organic chemist, I am not a polymer chemist, or a silicone chemist, and finally, I am for all intents and purposes, just an anonymous person posting on an internet forum. So take it with a grain of salt.
But I don't know enough about TPR blends to say that this for sure means it's not TPR. The reading I've done says TPR blends tend to get brittle somewhere around -25C.
As for dissolving it....well, my love pacifier is now missing a chunk (just in the handle), which I cut up into 8 pieces and put into vials with a variety of solvents, and it didn't seem to dissolve in anything. I put it in hexanes (think: gasoline), acetone (think: nail polish remover), toluene (think: paint thinner), as well as ethyl acetate, butanol, dimethyl sulphoxide, dicholoromethane and tetrahydrofuran. And of course, it doesn't dissolve in water either. *shrug*. I'll check in on the silicone chunks tomorrow, and in a few days, to see if they're swelling and/or dissolving. I will also eventually dry down the solvents to see if they've extracted anything (if anything is dissolving out of this material I will be able to see a residue)....but preliminary results say this stuff is pretty inert to these organic solvents.
Now I should note, there are some pretty skookum plastics out there that are pretty solvent resistant. However, they're real spendy. It wouldn't make much sense, in my mind, to go to the trouble of labeling something as 100% silicone, and then making it out of high quality plastics instead of silicone - we're talking the same price category here, at least in lab land.
As noted previously, I will follow up in a few days, I am still quite open to seeing the error in my ways here (please chime in if you have any other info), and although I am an organic chemist, I am not a polymer chemist, or a silicone chemist, and finally, I am for all intents and purposes, just an anonymous person posting on an internet forum. So take it with a grain of salt.
03/17/2009
This is outstanding!! Thanks Red!
03/17/2009
Quote:
Excellent work, Red. WOW - you really went above and beyond. I'm super curious to hear the results!
Originally posted by
Red
So, I put it to the test. My love pacifier stayed very malleable at -78C, not at all brittle. In fact, I would say it's "bendability" stayed the exact same as it is at room temperature, and as it is after it comes out of a pot of
...
more
So, I put it to the test. My love pacifier stayed very malleable at -78C, not at all brittle. In fact, I would say it's "bendability" stayed the exact same as it is at room temperature, and as it is after it comes out of a pot of boiling water.
But I don't know enough about TPR blends to say that this for sure means it's not TPR. The reading I've done says TPR blends tend to get brittle somewhere around -25C.
As for dissolving it....well, my love pacifier is now missing a chunk (just in the handle), which I cut up into 8 pieces and put into vials with a variety of solvents, and it didn't seem to dissolve in anything. I put it in hexanes (think: gasoline), acetone (think: nail polish remover), toluene (think: paint thinner), as well as ethyl acetate, butanol, dimethyl sulphoxide, dicholoromethane and tetrahydrofuran. And of course, it doesn't dissolve in water either. *shrug*. I'll check in on the silicone chunks tomorrow, and in a few days, to see if they're swelling and/or dissolving. I will also eventually dry down the solvents to see if they've extracted anything (if anything is dissolving out of this material I will be able to see a residue)....but preliminary results say this stuff is pretty inert to these organic solvents.
Now I should note, there are some pretty skookum plastics out there that are pretty solvent resistant. However, they're real spendy. It wouldn't make much sense, in my mind, to go to the trouble of labeling something as 100% silicone, and then making it out of high quality plastics instead of silicone - we're talking the same price category here, at least in lab land.
As noted previously, I will follow up in a few days, I am still quite open to seeing the error in my ways here (please chime in if you have any other info), and although I am an organic chemist, I am not a polymer chemist, or a silicone chemist, and finally, I am for all intents and purposes, just an anonymous person posting on an internet forum. So take it with a grain of salt. less
But I don't know enough about TPR blends to say that this for sure means it's not TPR. The reading I've done says TPR blends tend to get brittle somewhere around -25C.
As for dissolving it....well, my love pacifier is now missing a chunk (just in the handle), which I cut up into 8 pieces and put into vials with a variety of solvents, and it didn't seem to dissolve in anything. I put it in hexanes (think: gasoline), acetone (think: nail polish remover), toluene (think: paint thinner), as well as ethyl acetate, butanol, dimethyl sulphoxide, dicholoromethane and tetrahydrofuran. And of course, it doesn't dissolve in water either. *shrug*. I'll check in on the silicone chunks tomorrow, and in a few days, to see if they're swelling and/or dissolving. I will also eventually dry down the solvents to see if they've extracted anything (if anything is dissolving out of this material I will be able to see a residue)....but preliminary results say this stuff is pretty inert to these organic solvents.
Now I should note, there are some pretty skookum plastics out there that are pretty solvent resistant. However, they're real spendy. It wouldn't make much sense, in my mind, to go to the trouble of labeling something as 100% silicone, and then making it out of high quality plastics instead of silicone - we're talking the same price category here, at least in lab land.
As noted previously, I will follow up in a few days, I am still quite open to seeing the error in my ways here (please chime in if you have any other info), and although I am an organic chemist, I am not a polymer chemist, or a silicone chemist, and finally, I am for all intents and purposes, just an anonymous person posting on an internet forum. So take it with a grain of salt. less
03/17/2009
Red, I am really impressed by your scientific enthusiasm. Labeling this product as silicone TPR we were trying to be on the safe side. Because by US law you can call material silicone when it contains at least 10% of silicone and some manufacturers often misuse this label. Although I would love to get the complete list of elements in this or any other toy I've read it is a really complicated thing to perform chemical analysis on silicone or any other polymer. We value and trust your opinion and decided to classify this toy as a silicone one. The change has been made. Thank you all for the valuable discussion and caring.
03/17/2009
And...it goes without saying, that is why this is a great community around a responsible and responsive company.
Absolutely admirable work Red!
I'll treat them now as silicone as well (...though I'm still a bit puzzled by the persistent chemical smell; maybe I have an older one, with a slightly different composition).
Absolutely admirable work Red!
I'll treat them now as silicone as well (...though I'm still a bit puzzled by the persistent chemical smell; maybe I have an older one, with a slightly different composition).
03/17/2009
Quote:
Oh wow, I really didn't expect this to happen - warm fuzzies! I totally give you props for staying on the safe side with this kind of stuff, however. How f*ckt up is it that that we can't trust what manufactures say about the "ingredients" in a toy? I wonder if it's b/c of the novelty thing....and I wonder if that applies to other stuff, like kitchen equipment, kids toys, etc? I hope the voices of annoyed consumers get loud enough that that law changes! I also wonder if it's the same standard in Canada - bet it is. I wish I had a lawyer friend whose brain I could pick
Originally posted by
Rufina
Red, I am really impressed by your scientific enthusiasm. Labeling this product as silicone TPR we were trying to be on the safe side. Because by US law you can call material silicone when it contains at least 10% of silicone and some manufacturers
...
more
Red, I am really impressed by your scientific enthusiasm. Labeling this product as silicone TPR we were trying to be on the safe side. Because by US law you can call material silicone when it contains at least 10% of silicone and some manufacturers often misuse this label. Although I would love to get the complete list of elements in this or any other toy I've read it is a really complicated thing to perform chemical analysis on silicone or any other polymer. We value and trust your opinion and decided to classify this toy as a silicone one. The change has been made. Thank you all for the valuable discussion and caring.
less
And yep, you are right - the analysis techniques I could think of wouldn't give a definitive answer and would be real tough to do on something that won't dissolve.
I will still be following up on this to see if there's any swelling or dissolving of the pieces after a few more days.
Thanks to everyone for the props, but I was just doing two things I love - playing with chemicals AND sex toys Who'd have thought I could combine the two!
03/18/2009
OK I officially have a crush on Red now.
10/10/2009
Quote:
Aw hehe, blush! Now-a-days, I would use the infamous flaming test (brilliant and simple and way more direct than freezing with dry ice) that you introduced us to
Originally posted by
Metis Black
OK I officially have a crush on Red now.
10/12/2009
Did anyone ever do the simple fire test?
10/12/2009
Quote:
I just did it with mine... just a black mark (and a slightly burned thumb... I had a DA moment and touched it to wipe off the black mark. I blame it on my long day at work.)
Originally posted by
Saraid
Did anyone ever do the simple fire test?
10/12/2009
I think I need to start paying more attention to the packaging...
04/30/2011
Quote:
Packaging often is the least reliable source, as it is designed to sell the product.
Originally posted by
daniel and frances
I think I need to start paying more attention to the packaging...
04/30/2011
Wow, interesting experiments!
06/18/2011
Quote:
Now if only the Challenger shuttle's engineers had cared as much about their o-rings as Red cares about her Love Pacifiers...
Originally posted by
Red
I am an organic chemist, but not in the field of polymers. I have two experiments in mind to test this out that I will do tonight, when the lab is empty. My love pacifier might not survive tho, but I'll take this one for the team.
1) ... more
1) ... more
I am an organic chemist, but not in the field of polymers. I have two experiments in mind to test this out that I will do tonight, when the lab is empty. My love pacifier might not survive tho, but I'll take this one for the team.
1) Silicone is supposedly able to stay flexible to temps down to -100C. TPR, generally, becomes brittle below -25C. I will drop the love pacifier in a -78C bath and see how it fares. This is not going to be conclusive, just suggestive.
2) Silicone is supposed to be insoluble in everything, except acids, and also gnarly reagents that will chemically degrade it. I will attempt to dissolve a chip of the Love pacifier on every single organic solvent I have access to.
I was considering putting a chip of it in for elemental analysis, but my reading has led me to conclude that it will be tough to get a definitive answer, as silicone polymers are many and varied in composition.
Stay tuned for an update! Please note, no matter what I find, I'm just an anonymous person posting on a forum, so take it with a grain of salt.
(and yes, this is fully me procrastinating instead of writing a certain epic document...) less
1) Silicone is supposedly able to stay flexible to temps down to -100C. TPR, generally, becomes brittle below -25C. I will drop the love pacifier in a -78C bath and see how it fares. This is not going to be conclusive, just suggestive.
2) Silicone is supposed to be insoluble in everything, except acids, and also gnarly reagents that will chemically degrade it. I will attempt to dissolve a chip of the Love pacifier on every single organic solvent I have access to.
I was considering putting a chip of it in for elemental analysis, but my reading has led me to conclude that it will be tough to get a definitive answer, as silicone polymers are many and varied in composition.
Stay tuned for an update! Please note, no matter what I find, I'm just an anonymous person posting on a forum, so take it with a grain of salt.
(and yes, this is fully me procrastinating instead of writing a certain epic document...) less
I loved this thread, good work Red!
06/18/2011
Total posts: 49
Unique posters: 21
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