#SexIsSocial - Feminists Don't Deserve Chivalry? - Created by Rayne Millaray on Mar 07, 2013: EdenFantasys Forum

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#SexIsSocial - Feminists Don't Deserve Chivalry?

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Rayne Millaray

Welcome to this week's featured SexIs article:

Feminists Don't Deserve Chivalry?, by kendra30752!

My partner, M, and I are friends with this older gentleman who is quite a bit eccentric. He's very nice, responsible to a fault, takes care of his aging mother all by himself...in short, I don't just call him a gentleman. He lives up to the term.

Occasionally, our conversations turn to feminist behaviors that really stick in our craw. When they do, he always tells the same story.

The story goes:

One day, R was heading into one of the local malls, and he fell into step with a woman around his age, which, at the time, was somewhere around 40. R, always the gentleman, took a step back, grabbing the door handle at the same time, and held it open for her.

The woman (who, he'll usually tell us at this point, was beautiful until she opened her mouth) snapped at him, "What do you think, because I'm a woman, I can't open the door for myself? How dare you?"

R, not one to pay a kindness to someone against their wishes, smiled devilishly as he let the door slam shut and replied, "Woman? I didn't even realize you were human. Have a nice day." and walked away.

Kendra's article asks a question I've been considering for most of my life. What's with (some) feminists and antifeminists and their belief that because you believe in equality and choice, you should never want or accept assistance or "chivalry" from men?

What do you think?

If you're feminist do you give up your right to enjoy chivalry?

Answers (public voting - your screen name will appear in the results):

Well...do you?

783883877299373783

Yes. If you want to be equal to men, you get treated like a man.

No. Feminism isn't a reason to give up manners.

K101 , The Vixen , Rayne Millaray , ImaGodiva , Adriana Ravenlust , Do emu , toysforme19 , bratcat , Msmueller , Virgingasms , Feisty , AliMc

You should open doors for everyone, no matter their gender. It's polite!

Lildrummrgurl7 , Ryuson , KrissyNovacaine , Emma (Girl With Fire) , Kindred , deltalima , ginnyluvspotter , tinker , chicmichiw , rihanne , null , K101 , The Vixen , Rayne Millaray , MrWill , captainsgirl , laflauta , PeppermintFuntimes , El-Jaro , Sohotdinosaur , mdnght , Lalunacy , Adriana Ravenlust , Do emu , XxFallenAngelxX , Pete's Princess , sillylilkitten , sinnerandsaint , notxsorry , toysforme19 , SneakersAndPearls , Leopard Kittie , 783883877299373783 , bratcat , angelcrossmarie1 , Loriandhubby , Melan!e , LoneOokami , Madame Z , Feisty , AliMc , gwenevieve , TJtheMadHatter , yukoimada , DeadlyJ , leanright69 , fletcherbitch , annarchism , Anteaterz , vanillaSpice

Other. (leave a comment)

What is feminism about in your mind?

783883877299373783

Equality.

KrissyNovacaine , Sohotdinosaur , Pete's Princess , Msmueller , Melan!e , Madame Z

Choice.

Female world domination.

Equality AND choice.

Lildrummrgurl7 , Ryuson , Emma (Girl With Fire) , deltalima , ginnyluvspotter , tinker , chicmichiw , rihanne , null , K101 , The Vixen , Rayne Millaray , MrWill , captainsgirl , laflauta , ImaGodiva , mdnght , Lalunacy , Adriana Ravenlust , Do emu , XxFallenAngelxX , sillylilkitten , sinnerandsaint , notxsorry , toysforme19 , Leopard Kittie , 783883877299373783 , bratcat , Virgingasms , Feisty , AliMc , Sneekyfox , Ayogirl230 , TJtheMadHatter , DeadlyJ , leanright69 , fletcherbitch , Anteaterz , vanillaSpice

Other (explain in a comment)

El-Jaro , SneakersAndPearls

If you have a son, will you raise him to be chivalrous?

783883877299373783

Yes. It's called

Lildrummrgurl7 , Ryuson , KrissyNovacaine , Emma (Girl With Fire) , deltalima , ginnyluvspotter , tinker , chicmichiw , rihanne , K101 , The Vixen , Rayne Millaray , MrWill , captainsgirl , ImaGodiva , Sohotdinosaur , Lalunacy , Adriana Ravenlust , Do emu , XxFallenAngelxX , sillylilkitten , sinnerandsaint , notxsorry , toysforme19 , 783883877299373783 , bratcat , Msmueller , Loriandhubby , Virgingasms , Melan!e , Madame Z , Feisty , AliMc , Ayogirl230 , TJtheMadHatter , DeadlyJ , leanright69 , fletcherbitch , Anteaterz

No. Whether or not he wants to be polite to someone is his choice.

El-Jaro , vanillaSpice

Other (leave a comment)

laflauta

...

Do you think feminism is on the right track?

783883877299373783

Yes.

Lildrummrgurl7 , Adriana Ravenlust , Do emu , toysforme19 , Anteaterz , vanillaSpice

No.

deltalima , El-Jaro , Sohotdinosaur , notxsorry , leanright69

Maybe?

Ryuson , Emma (Girl With Fire) , Kindred , ginnyluvspotter , tinker , chicmichiw , rihanne , null , K101 , The Vixen , Rayne Millaray , MrWill , captainsgirl , laflauta , PeppermintFuntimes , ImaGodiva , mdnght , Lalunacy , Adriana Ravenlust , XxFallenAngelxX , Pete's Princess , sillylilkitten , sinnerandsaint , SneakersAndPearls , Leopard Kittie , 783883877299373783 , Msmueller , Loriandhubby , Virgingasms , Melan!e , Feisty , AliMc , Sneekyfox , Ayogirl230 , TJtheMadHatter , DeadlyJ , fletcherbitch

Total votes: 203 (55 voters)

Poll is closed

03/07/2013

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03/07/2013

Lildrummrgurl7

I think Kendra did a great job explaining this. I believe it's just polite to open the door for other people or perform any other chivalrous things. I'm a female and I hold the door open for males and females if I see them behind me. I'm not going to stand at the door and wait for someone to open it for me but I am genuinely thankful when anyone holds a door for me. A feminist doesn't give up the right to be treated with respect and politeness just because they're fighting for equality.

03/07/2013

Ryuson

(Review Program Mentor)

That's just as bad as some men I've met who REFUSE to let a lady hold the door for them. Let's all just be nice and hold the door for eachother, regardless of strange social norms!

I think that some feminists are on the right track, but some (a lot of whom are famous and that I hear about a lot) aren't. Yes, women should have equal standing to men, but I also don't think that one gender should be brought up or down to make us 100% equal the same in every aspect. There are many different people, genders, and personalities in the world, and I think that we should just celebrate our differences and treat eachother nicely no matter what.

03/07/2013

deltalima

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayne Millaray

Welcome to this week's featured SexIs article:

Feminists Don't Deserve Chivalry?, by kendra30752!

My partner, M, and I are friends with this older gentleman who is quite a bit eccentric. He's very ... more

I've never relied on others being polite regardless of my gender so it doesn't affect me as much.

03/07/2013

ginnyluvspotter

I teach my boys to be polite to people no matter sex or race

03/07/2013

MissViolet

There is nothing wrong with gentlemen, and there is nothing wrong with acting like a lady. You can be a feminist and a lady as well, just as you can be a gentlemen and also a feminist.

I will hold the door open for anyone behind me regardless of gender, and I find it quite rude when others do not extend that courtesy to me. I will certainly appreciate a gentlemen who will go out of his way to be polite by helping me carry my things, opening a door--especially a car door, etc. I'm a Southern girl and I find those things quite pleasant.

Also, I will definitely be teaching my sons to be chivalrous. I'd like them to be the ones who will hold the door open, say "yes ma'am" or "sir" to the elderly, and generally be a polite member of society.

03/07/2013

chicmichiw

I love that article. It's tough thing to explain because there are so many layers of the problem, and each layer is a chance to misunderstand. I give courtesy to everyone whether or not they're female (and I identify as female). If things were truly gender neutral, you wouldn't notice anyone's gender and then act accordingly...I know that's hard and probably not possible, though.

03/07/2013

rihanne

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayne Millaray

women like this make me so angry.

03/07/2013

K101

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayne Millaray

Oh wow! It was so awesome to see this! I am really glad to be able to hear/read others' feelings on this & I was totally surprised and ecstatic to see votes that lined up with feminists deserving chivalry! How fantastic. I haven't known many others to agree that just because you're a feminist doesn't mean you don't deserve chivalry or kind acts from others!

Well, I guess we all know how I feel on it! Lol.

03/08/2013

K101

Quote:

Originally posted by Lildrummrgurl7

Amen, sista!

03/08/2013

MrWill

I'm a pretty chivalrous/polite man myself. If I held the door for someone like this though... all bets are off. I would have probably very politely looked her right square in her eyes and told her to go fuck herself.

That's not something against feminists, I have a problem with assholes. I don't tolerate them well, and if I was being courteous enough to hold a door for you, then at the least you could just not say anything instead of trying to start crap over someone being polite.

Oh well.

03/08/2013

laflauta

People of both sexes hold the door open for me frequently, and I like to give them the benefit of the doubt and think that they are doing it to be nice to another person, not specifically because I'm a woman. I hold the door open for other people regardless of who they are. I've had a guy refuse to walk through the door before and I just stood there and stared at him out of confusion.

I answered "other" to raising my sons to be chivalrous because, should I have sons, I will raise them to be polite. Chivalry, the way we use it now, is about courteous behavior to women. I want my children to think that they should be nice to everyone because it's the right thing to do. I don't want them to think that they should be especially nice to women because this implies that women are different and should be treated differently.

03/08/2013

El-Jaro

Chivalry is inherently sexist. Being nice is just being nice.

Once there's a unifying platform for feminism, it's hard to say if anything fits it. There are plenty of things that don't fit it though.

03/08/2013

Adriana Ravenlust

Quote:

Originally posted by El-Jaro

I agree. I wouldn't necessarily treat a son chivalry, but to be courteous? Um, duh.

03/11/2013

Ansley

Quote:

Originally posted by El-Jaro

Agreed. However, because I happen to be a rose-tinted glasses, die-hard romantic, I'll take chivalry over feminism any day.

03/12/2013

Pete's Princess

(Review Program Mentor)

It is sad that people take their views to the extreme and lose all common sense and manners. There is no excuse for bad manners. If someone goes out of their way to be nice to you, do not question their motives. Say "Thank You."

03/12/2013

sinnerandsaint

I consider myself a feminist, but as such I want equal rights for everyone. Women, men, gay, straight, whatever. I think that some feminists take the "feminazi" route and tend to demonize anyone who doesn't fall into what they think is correct. Being into BDSM, I've had many a lady tell me that I was setting feminism back and blah blah blah. I think that it's more about being able to do what we choose to as women, but that's just me.

I think everyone should be polite to everyone. As a woman I hold doors, but I don't expect anyone to hold it for me.

03/13/2013

angelcrossmarie1

i don't think politeness should be regulated by gender. >.>

03/14/2013

Virgingasms

Personally, I don't really like having doors opened for me. It just annoys me. But I don't see why people use feminism as an excuse to be jerks.

03/15/2013

Illusional

Quote:

Originally posted by Virgingasms

Personally, I don't really like having doors opened for me. It just annoys me. But I don't see why people use feminism as an excuse to be jerks.

I agree.

One of my friends always regards herself as an "angry feminist" and going places with her is honestly hectic because every man that talks to her is trying to get into her pants. I'm like "Why can't you just be a feminist? Why do you have to be ANGRY, always?"

04/15/2013

Woman China

Bottom line... I never expect anyone to hold my door, or to help me carry something... so when offered, I do take their help when I need it. And offer it in turn no matter the gender of the person.

As I think it was JR said, it is NICE to be NICE!!! No matter if you are a man or a woman. My rule of thumb is, whoever gets to the door first holds it open. We have these thick material like things that go over most big building doors in the winter time to try to keep the wind and dust out through the winter time. It annoys me to no end the girls who pull them open without a care in the world letting them fall usually smack down on the people behind them noses and heads.

This has been known to break glasses with the weight of these door coverings.

I find those girls and women to be stuck up and just plain out rude. Then I watch some girls and guys who will stand there for a while holding them open while people just walk through and hardly anyone says thank-you or shows their appreciation to them.

And yes, it is usually a man/boy who will hold it for another person more than the girls/women. And in my opinion, I feel this is wrong. And I feel that women who expect a man to hold a door for them are also in the wrong.

On the other hand, when a man says ladies first, I usually refuse to go first. When asked why? I state that for thousands of years men have used this as an excuse to oogle women's backsides, I am taking my turn now. Which usually gets a few laughs.

05/21/2013

mdnght

While I do consider myself to be a bit of an angry feminist, things like dudes opening doors for me doesn't make me mad, because I figure those same dudes would hold the door for anyone, because it's the polite thing to do, and it's what I do.

05/27/2013

No-nita

Literally everyone who's got a bone to pick with feminists trots this one out. "I knew a guy who knew a guy who had a woman tell him not to hold the door open for her! And she got all offended about it!" People make this shit up on a regular basis. Nobody gets pissed when someone else is holding a door open for them unless that person said/did something else to draw the other person's ire to begin with.

I'm one of those angry manhating feminists and I don't get pissed at the idea of men holding doors open for me, nor has any other angry manhating feminist I've ever known ;D

also I'm really meh on the "do you think feminism is on the right track" question - unless someone is up in feminist/activist spaces they probably aren't clued in on what the movement is focusing on and are going to answer based on some oversimplified idea of what feminism is...

06/28/2013

Incendiaire

I hold the door for anyone, because I'm polite and wish to proliferate it in society, but if you give me some ridiculous feminist diatribe about being able to open your own door then I will slam it in your face so fast.

Honestly, if you see someone behind you then hold the door open, it isn't hard! It's not about gender either, it's about common decency.

06/28/2013

vanillaSpice

I'm a woman and consider this, I was raised not to expect chivalrous behavior, but to be polite to people regardless of their gender.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being polite to people (unless it begins to actually harm you!) but I would honestly argue that some "chivalrous" behavior is just another form of sexism. I don't want to be put on a pedestal as some kind of delicate specimen requiring special treatment! I just want to be treated as an equal.

That said, I can only think of one occasion where chivalrous behavior made me even a little uncomfortable: I was trying to let an older gentleman get on the bus before me, but he insisted that I get on before him - "ladies first". It was a little embarrassing because I hesitated too much but it was kind of sweet, since I knew he was just trying to be polite in the way that he had been brought up to.

Though now that I think of it, it would've made me much more uncomfortable if a guy my own age had done the same thing. Hm. It's all tricky, really.

07/31/2013

Total posts: 26 Unique posters: 25

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