I wonder why I care sometimes.

I wonder why I care sometimes.

Dragon Dragon
This has been rattling around in my head for awhile now.

I wonder exactly why I care about Eden.
I wonder why, I'm willing to work hard at writing decent reviews.
I wonder why, I actually make the effort to write reviews for products that I pay for. I've done so many times. I have a couple yet in mind. (I wonder why I should bother though.)
I wonder, especially, why they actually have so much of my loyalty, and have for so long. I have not bought oanother toy online ever.
I wonder why it matters to be somewhat of a higher ranked reviewer.

It's true that over time, I've received some very nice things from Eden which I appreciate a great deal. I feel like in general though they treat reviewers very, very poorly for a number of reasons. They don't take care of the people that try hard to take care of them.

I wonder how long I will care. I wonder how long others will, too.

I wonder how this post will be received and by whom.
01/14/2009
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Epiphora Epiphora
You should write reviews because you want to.

I hope you have some good examples about Eden treating reviewers poorly. You're going to be asked for them.
01/14/2009
Nashville Nashville
Don't write reviews with the company in mind, write them with the customer in mind.
01/14/2009
Dame Demi Dame Demi
Writing reviews is something you do well, and that benefits other people. Without people like you, Eden would just be another site with uninformative lists of products. We all have our down times, but hopefully soon enough it will be fun for you again!
01/15/2009
Liz2 Liz2
I write reviews as I want others to have a more positive and beneficial toy experience then I first had. Primarily I learned by trial and error, sometimes both painful and uncomfortable. In fact, I went off toys for a few months......too bad, my loss.
One of the former reps from Eden came to my rescue, made a few toy suggestions and I have been on a orgasmic high ever since...
01/15/2009
Champagne and Benzedrine (Roland Hulme) Champagne and Benzedrine (Roland Hulme)
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
This has been rattling around in my head for awhile now.

I wonder exactly why I care about Eden.
I wonder why, I'm willing to work hard at writing decent reviews.
I wonder why, I actually make the effort to write reviews for products ...
I've always been treated very well by Eden. I'm incredibly enthusiastic to be a part of the community. I'm not sure exactly what you expect, but despite the fact that I earn my living as a writer, the novelty value of being sent $$$ worth of products in exchange for nothing more than a few paragraphs of copy has NOT worn off (and I doubt it ever will.)

I think you might have different expectations from Eden than I do.
01/15/2009
Beautiful Dreamer Beautiful Dreamer
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
This has been rattling around in my head for awhile now.

I wonder exactly why I care about Eden.
I wonder why, I'm willing to work hard at writing decent reviews.
I wonder why, I actually make the effort to write reviews for products ...
I've been trying to figure out how to respond to this. I'm sorry you feel the way you do.

I'm curious- how does Edens treat their reviewers "very, very poorly" and more importantly- what could be done differently?
01/15/2009
Backseat Boohoo Backseat Boohoo
At the risk of sounding like a jerk, you've made several posts about your unhappiness with EF, but you still remain here. Something must be keeping you here?

Honestly, I have always been treated like gold by EF. No, I don't always get the free stuff that I want, but I respect the fact that EF is not a sex toy charity, and they're actually the most generous adult company I can think of.

There are several other communities that I am a member of that are run by moderators who talk down to their members and treat them like peons, but the higher-ups at EF have never treated me this way; I have always felt like I was their equal.

I also like that the community itself is so open and is generally mature. If I have a problem, I know I can bring it up without having my head chewed off. A great example is when I complained about how lax the standards for advanced reviewers are; it was a negative comment, but I haven't been "blackballed" from the community for it. The moderators respond to all of my posts in a timely matter and are more than willing to provide me with any information that I need.

Lastly, I like the way reviews are done here. I'll admit that the off-site reviewing system is a bit clunky and has some bugs that need worked out, and several other programs are in the process of being refined, but other than that, the wealth of information available at EF is unprecedented. Even on the very rare occasions when I buy a toy from another website, I always check EF's page on that toy to see its specs and read reviews. The reviews in and of themselves have the potential to be very informative, thanks to the "enforced" vroom and buzz ratings.

Can you tell us specifically how you feel poorly treated, and how you would like to see things improve? I think it's important that, when you see an issue, you provide some possible ways to resolve said issue.
01/15/2009
Not Here Anymore f/k/a Happy Lady Not Here Anymore f/k/a Happy Lady
I write reviews because I enjoy sex toys.... usually. And when I don't enjoy them I don't want someone else to suffer as I did. The reason I came to and have stayed with Eden is because I have yet to find another site that offers as much as information. As SD, Dame & Liz pointed out - the reviews are to benefits other potential toy users. That's why I care.
01/15/2009
Dragon Dragon
Yes, I have reasons… (More I have my feelings…)
I have actually been here longer any of you. For reference, I took the date of the oldest review of the top ten reviewers, those that I know who started about the same time that I did, and those that posted here. Do you really want an environment where the most senior reviewers leave? Perhaps... That may also depend on business decisions - but I don't have to like it.

AAG- (gone) – March 2007
Backseat Boohoo – September 2008
Beautiful Dreamer – May 2008
Bulma – (gone), June 2008
Dame Demi - October 2007
Devilbluedress – May 2007
Ephidora – October 2007
Essin’ Em – (gone) March 2007
Foxxy Kitty – October 2007
Happy Lady – September 2008
Jimbo Jones – August 2007
Liz 2 – October 2008
Oggins – April 2008
Safo Garcia – April 2008 (I think…)
Sleeping Dreamer – September 2007
Red Roulette – May 2008

When I started, there were no guidelines about how to write reviews nor were there any way to change them. They were frequently edited by Eden staff, and sometimes they did such a crappy job trying to add links that they screwed up the grammar. I accepted the editing, fought the grammar and when it became an option rewrote most of the reviews closer to the original. It wasn’t until after about my fourth review that I was shown examples of some good reviews. That was when I found a product that really sucked.

There wasn’t a welcome letter for new reviewers, and I never had time to browse much. I didn’t even know about the forum until I received an email that included a link. I’ve thought about writing up a FAQ for new reviewers.
I would have liked to have been asked to have been included in the descriptions program. I would have said, “No” for personal reasons so not getting the newest toys isn’t my concern. I think that I actually write good reviews. If not- perhaps someone should have mentioned it long ago.

Open and honesty from Eden? Consistent rules for everyone or special treatment? I just looked at one reviewers site in more detail. She has 10 reviews posted in December and January. Exactly 7 are verified. None are click through, and published on her blog only. However, there is additional information on some of them offsite. She’s getting a lot more than one toy a month. I wonder exactly how other reviewers feel about this - if they knew.

I have seen at least two policy changes canceled without notice or warning. (I understand the cancelation as a business practice. It’s the lack of notice which I consider inconsiderate. One of the policies is still in place and misleading on the website. They involved incentives or expensive toys to review. I was at one of the reviewers that received an email after 20 verified reviews you could choose any toy on the site. Before Augustin left he mentioned to me that I could request an expensive toy. I don’t object to my original request being both denied and negotiated. I’m actually quite happy with the toy that I received and reviewed. However, I was left with a very negative impression as well. (Basically, I was treated as a pain in the ass for asking.)

Some of you know that the interview project was personally important to me. I’m not petty enough to assume that I had to be either first or the only one. However, I am annoyed that there were certain communications off the forum at a time when it probably was apparent that they already had plans for who it would be. Again- no communication.

Someone asked me a question that sparked a thought. I wonder if Eden has made the policy to deliberately focus on building their younger market. It is a valid business reason if that’s where the sales are. I took a quick look at the age demographic post, and I admit that I could have made a mistake. There’s 13 reviewers between 20 & 30, 6 between 31 and 40, and 3 that are older. Older reviewers have a different perspective, more experience and generally more money. It’s still a valid business reason for marketing.

I’ve been willing to work very hard, but as far as I can tell there is no benefit to doing so. I very much appreciate Sleeping Dreamer, Dame Demi’s, Liz 2, and Happy Lady’s perspective. They are essentially saying – “You don’t write for a company. You write to make the world a better place.” Perhaps. Only I thought I was trying to make Eden a better company too, and haven’t felt that I’ve made any progress.

Beautiful Dreamer – I appreciate your simple understanding. Suggestions for improvement? Honest communication from Eden. Actual acknowledgement of the true benefit of the high ranking reviewers. There isn’t much benefit between you and I and eighty and ninety percent of the reviewers at Eden. You’re far better, and more interesting. (I’m not sure I’m going to care.)

Red Roulette – Can’t speak to your expectations, but mine are simple. I recognize that Eden is a business with a need to make money. I expect to be treated as a valued human being that actually benefits them. They won’t care if I walk. (Probably like it!)

Backseat Boohoo – Why do I stay? Because I have no interest in starting over. Because I doubt that I would buy another sex toy from another company right now in my life. There have been one or two things that seem to show up that I’m still vaguely interested in. I may be gone soon enough. It’s about more than just the toys. (I have heard others comment that those in the descriptions program get the “golden egg.” Not my concern at all though.)

BTW- Before this comes up. This is not about my personal rank or getting “expensive” toys. I want very few toys anymore… There has only been one review request that I had denied. (It had mediocre reviews. I saw potential, had interest and a reasons that I'd write a better review. It's inexpensive that I could buy it myself if I wanted it. I don't- I thought it would be more useful to Eden.)
01/15/2009
Dragon Dragon
Worked on this for far too long tonight...

Under "When can I review an expensive toy?" it says "After you have completed 10 reviews, you can review any product under $150. After 15 reviews, you can review any product on the site!"

It's an old policy. It is posted here.
01/15/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
--Two reviewers left never to return. Two. And I'm sure you know why they left, and it was related to business practices. Bulma left for a different reason and hopes to return, so I don't see why you should lump her in with them.

--As you know, I've been here since October 2007, when we still emailed our reviews to the program manager for posting. I never had issues with them messing up my grammar, and trust me, I would notice if they did. They added some links here and there, but nothing excessive.

--The incentives were removed because there was so much interest in reviewing and Eden was becoming overwhelmed. They could no longer keep giving people free stuff after 5, 10, 20 reviews. If it's still on the website, that sucks, but it was still changed and Eden really had no obligation to give you something once they changed the policy.

--Good luck proving that age = more experience. Different perspective sure, but more experience, no.

--Never heard anyone say anything about the descriptions program giving golden eggs. Believe it or not, nothing I've gotten from the descriptions program has been a toy that I really like.

--And one final bottom line. If you really feel there's no benefit to writing your reviews, leave. Or just stop reviewing. Clearly you have a lot of issues with Eden, so why keep writing for them?
01/15/2009
Backseat Boohoo Backseat Boohoo
All I'm saying is that if you're staying here, you mustn't completely hate the place. Yes, there are issues, but does the good outweigh the bad for you?

EF is a huge company, but every little bit helps! It may not be visible, but your reviews DO make a difference to the customers. Just the other day, a friend of mine pointed out that she read a good on EF for a toy she never would have considered otherwise, but ended up buying. It wasn't the COMPANY that convinced her it was a good buy, it was the REVIEWER.

Nobody is going to ream you or force you to stay OR leave, but it's a decision you have to make for yourself. I'm sorry that you don't feel appreciated.
01/15/2009
Epiphora Epiphora
I forgot one more thing. The reviewer you mention, DBD, who has 7 verified reviews, could've easily done buyout on them. It's not improbable. I'm not falling for your bait about it being some sort of conspiracy.
01/15/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
The fact of the matter is the whole review description project just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Even those who wouldn't actually want to participate feel snubbed and unappreciated because they weren't asked. And damned near everyone who wasn't asked feels it was done very secretively, without communicating what was going on to the rest of us, which had us scratching our heads and feeling out of join when all of a sudden we noticed every new toy was already reviewed by a select handful of reviewers without understanding why.

After thing were explained, many still felt quite unappreciated and disregarded because they just keep being told that EF selected "experienced" and "high ranking" reviewers. But that's not necessarily true. At least two higher ranked reviewers weren't asked and many of those who were asked had only been with EF for a few months. One only had four verified reviews.

And, yeah, it does sort of rankle those of us who have been here awhile. Those in the program get to review at least twice the free toys per month that we do - which automatically makes them more highly rated and gives us zero chance to catch up. (And before anyone talks about buyouts or buying our own toys I'm talking strictly free toys here. Those in the program ALSO get buyouts and can review their own toys so it's never going to be a "fair" rating system.)

Like DBD, when I first started there was no guideline for writing reviews. I was actually approached via my blog and asked to sign up. Until recently I didn't really browse the site all that much cuz I just didn't have TIME for it. I had no idea there was a forum until I started getting emails about ranking systems and how they worked. When I first started doing reviews I was told to "make them sexy and interesting and not too technical". And, like DBD said, we couldn't edit them once they were up on site. So all of a sudden a good review is totally different than what I was told to write when I signed up and I didn't even know it! Very ineffective communication, in my opinion.

So... if those of us who have been here awhile aren't or weren't writing reviews that were good enough why didn't someone tell us? I've never had a review returned, never had anyone ask me to edit one. I assumed I was doing fine.

Anyhow... I think that some folks are just feeling disillusioned, snubbed and unappreciated.

Add in these weird blog reviews that are NOT part of the new program to review either here or in your blog and the fact that toy choice is getting kind of bottom of the barrel with no chance to ever review any new toys cuz they're already reviewed and people are going to get a little cranky.

I love reviewing toys for EF. I don't want to stop reviewing toys for EF. I don't want to be greedy or have unrealistic expectations. But I'll freely admit it gets irksome when you're surrounded by folks who are getting more than you are. More attention, more toys, more appreciation, more rank, more respect, more everything.

And every time you mention it people take offense and tell you you're expecting EF to be a sex toy soup kitchen and that of COURSE EF is going to pick the experienced, high ranking reviewers for special projects... cuz the folks taking offense and telling us how it's "no big deal" are the ones GETTING the special projects even though most of us who have our feelings hurt at the moment have been here longer than they have.

It doesn't feel like experience is winning out.

It feels like someone's "favorites" are winning out.

And that sort of sucks for the rest of us.
01/15/2009
Beautiful Dreamer Beautiful Dreamer
I just want to take a minute to point out that I wasn't initially asked to be a part of the descriptions program (which I learned about when reading a blog- not on EF). I was initially told no when I asked to become a part of it. I waited, became more involved, and then reasked. I also remember them asking on the forums in anyone wanted to become involved.
01/15/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Epiphora
I forgot one more thing. The reviewer you mention, DBD, who has 7 verified reviews, could've easily done buyout on them. It's not improbable. I'm not falling for your bait about it being some sort of conspiracy.
It's really easy to find out.

If it's a buy out, the review will just be a verified review.

If it's a product description thing, well, the review will be the description.

Got a link, DBD, and we'll check.
01/15/2009
Beautiful Dreamer Beautiful Dreamer
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
It's really easy to find out.

If it's a buy out, the review will just be a verified review.

If it's a product description thing, well, the review will be the description.

Got a link, DBD, and we'll check.
Check? Why? I mean I don't mean to be rude- but when did this become a competition? Counting others cookies? Seriously. I don't mean to be a bitch- but really!? Come on. Why are we monitoring others activities so closely instead of focusing on our own personal growth as reviewers???
01/15/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
It's really easy to find out.

If it's a buy out, the review will just be a verified review.

If it's a product description thing, well, the review will be the description.

Got a link, DBD, and we'll check.
Hey guys,
Can we just discuss this instead of turning it into a witch-hunt? The complaints aren't directed at individual reviewers so much as they are at policy. I'd really hate to see this thread disintegrate into infighting.
01/15/2009
Miss KissThis Miss KissThis
I wasn't planning on becoming involved in this discussion at all. I don't like confrontation or negativity, and I'm not going to make personal comments about anyone's actions or comments.

However- I would like to point out that this is getting a little out of hand. This is supposed to be a community and now it's becoming an "us versus them" atmosphere.
01/15/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainBunnyKilla
Hey guys,
Can we just discuss this instead of turning it into a witch-hunt? The complaints aren't directed at individual reviewers so much as they are at policy. I'd really hate to see this thread disintegrate into infighting.
I"m not intending to turn it into a witch hunt.

Epiphora flat out said she wasn't falling for DBD's bait. A normal rebuttal in any sort of conversation where someone is questioned as to the truth of their statement is to provide proof.

Not to witch hunt but to show you're not lying or find out where your error may have been.

Sorry if my motivation seemed wonky. It was really just to see if this person DID get seven free products or if DBD may have been mistaken.
01/15/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Dreamer
Check? Why? I mean I don't mean to be rude- but when did this become a competition? Counting others cookies? Seriously. I don't mean to be a bitch- but really!? Come on. Why are we monitoring others activities so closely instead of focusing ...
Because checking would allow DBD to find out if, perhaps, she'd assumed something that wasn't true or to prove she's not making things up.

It's not a matter of counting others cookies so much as a matter of saying something and being told, basically, that you're full of it.
01/15/2009
Beautiful Dreamer Beautiful Dreamer
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
I"m not intending to turn it into a witch hunt.

Epiphora flat out said she wasn't falling for DBD's bait. A normal rebuttal in any sort of conversation where someone is questioned as to the truth of their statement is to provide ...
They could have easily been buy outs. You can never tell the difference between a buy out or a free assignment. So checking won't tell you anything.
01/15/2009
Beautiful Dreamer Beautiful Dreamer
Quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Dreamer
They could have easily been buy outs. You can never tell the difference between a buy out or a free assignment. So checking won't tell you anything.
I'm just frustrated. Thank you for clarifying your intentions.
01/15/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Miss KissThis
I wasn't planning on becoming involved in this discussion at all. I don't like confrontation or negativity, and I'm not going to make personal comments about anyone's actions or comments.

However- I would like to point out that ...
It is a community. And in communities people occasionally get their feelings hurt and need to talk about it. They get mad sometimes, too, and need to resolve their anger.

Community doesn't mean sunshine and light at all times - though the fun times ARE the best.

Talking this out now and perhaps finding a way to soothe some hurt feelings and anger will only make the community stronger. Letting it fester will only make things worse.
01/15/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
Quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Dreamer
They could have easily been buy outs. You can never tell the difference between a buy out or a free assignment. So checking won't tell you anything.
You can tell a a free product description product by the fact that the product description is written by the reviewer. I'd assume that is not the case in a buy out that's already been on the site awhile.

Checking WILL tell if it was a product description assignment.
01/15/2009
CaptainBunnyKilla CaptainBunnyKilla
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
I"m not intending to turn it into a witch hunt.

Epiphora flat out said she wasn't falling for DBD's bait. A normal rebuttal in any sort of conversation where someone is questioned as to the truth of their statement is to provide ...
No one is doubting DBD's assesment: it's just that, as Beautiful Dreamer said, it's impossible to tell the difference between free verified reviews and buyout reviews. Taking this to the level of individual reviewers is just an exercise in speculation.

Furthermore, I believe it's articulated somewhere that reviewers in the Descriptions program are going to get more than one free toy every month. So there's even less reason to go after individual people.
01/15/2009
Beautiful Dreamer Beautiful Dreamer
Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie Ann
You can tell a a free product description product by the fact that the product description is written by the reviewer. I'd assume that is not the case in a buy out that's already been on the site awhile.

Checking WILL tell if it was a ...
But you can get free descriptions and free assignments. There are two different things.
01/15/2009
Carrie Ann Carrie Ann
I'd like to also point out that getting angry at people for their feelings doesn't do anyone any good.

Some folks have taken to attacking the second anyone says something about being unhappy or less than satisfied with certain things as if it's a personal thing. It's not.

Getting angry at me or DBD or anyone else who is feeling unhappy and hurt at the moment and attacking us or the validity of our feelings is just sort of foul.

Y'all realize that more folks feel this way but don't want to make waves, right?
01/15/2009
Adriana Ravenlust Adriana Ravenlust
Quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Dreamer
I just want to take a minute to point out that I wasn't initially asked to be a part of the descriptions program (which I learned about when reading a blog- not on EF). I was initially told no when I asked to become a part of it. I waited, became ...
Beautiful Dreamer, it's good to know this because sometimes appearances are deceiving. Not that I think you shouldn't be in the program but that they are not automatically accepting everyone.

I like reviewing for EF. I appreciate the community and the forums have offered a vast wealth of knowledge. I like learning new things, spreading some knowledge and having my voice heard. I understand EF is a big company and things will always be a work in progress. I can respect that.

Still, I feel both the original blog review and description programs were started in something of a secretive manner. Someone decided to ask members both within and outside the community to do reviews and I, too, felt a bit snubbed. Every time someone mentions how the best were chosen, it's a bit.. insulting, almost. I haven't put in nearly what some people have (like Dame Demi or Sleeping Dreamer) and I am humble enough to recognize that but it seems like very few recognize the 'privileges' granted those are obvious, especially as of late.

I think that DBD has a point when she asks what the true point of being a higher rated reviewer is when it does seem like a select few are getting more benefits - toys more frequently, to review new toys (even if they do suck), to review at their blogs without having 2 verified reviews et cetera.

I would appreciate it if EF were more open with these sorts of projects. I believe most of them were spearheaded by someone else and the current 'management' is left to deal with this. So, as a plea from just another reviewer - don't do things in secret. It makes it seem like there is something to hide and Ef didn't want everyone to know. I think that is one of the major things which are bothering some reviewers, myself included. If it had simply been announced from the beginning that EF was having a few people do description reviews, I think it would have been easier to swallow rather than one day stumbling across the fact that something was happening and we had no idea about it.
01/15/2009
Total posts: 127
Unique posters: 26