Buying your luxury vibrator.
Featured by EdenFantasys
Full price or on sale.
Discussion Topics
1.
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
(56 posts)
2.
On sale or Full Price?
(56 posts)
3.
Does price make the luxury vibrator?
(34 posts)
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
12/14/2012
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
Quote:
No, but normally price DOES usually mean it will last longer.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
12/14/2012
Insignia Soraya, and I love it!!
12/14/2012
I do. I have some lelo and jopen things as well as the Mimi. All these I used a sale code on and lots of points! lol. Helps alot.
12/14/2012
I don't, yet.
12/14/2012
I have the rechargeable mystic wand, and it's great! I waited and waited and bought it on sale.
12/14/2012
Yes I do
12/14/2012
I have several
12/14/2012
Yup.1
12/14/2012
I prefer to buy everything on sale. There's always a reviewer that has a 15% code if you look for it, but Eden is amazing at always having great sales too.
12/14/2012
Quote:
Yes, I do.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
12/14/2012
A few of them.
12/14/2012
Quote:
Yes, I do.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
12/14/2012
I have a few. lol Whether or not I would actually consider them luxury is another story, though.
12/14/2012
Quote:
Yes
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
12/14/2012
Yup, I do. Fun Factory stuff, mostly.
12/15/2012
I do have a couple of them
12/15/2012
I've gotten most of my toys using reviewers' discounts, but some of them, I gladly would've paid full price for.
12/15/2012
not yet but will soon
12/15/2012
Yes, i was saving for a long time, but i like quality
12/15/2012
Quote:
I have a few luxury vibes and no, price is NOT what you go buy. Not me anyways, ever. This is because I've bought very expensive "luxury" vibrators that well, to just be honest, sucked ass. For instance, Zini Deux. Worst luxury vibe ever! Great concept, cheap design, cheaper vibrations, hard material = useless. Even if the company would've spent a wee-bit more on the material and made it squishy silicone, that'd have made a huge difference, but they went the cheap route. In reality, Deux is a $40 quality vibrator, and I would not even pay that.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
Now, I have had luxury vibrators that were worth it. For instance Vitality. That is the absolute best vibrator that I've had ever laid... cooter on? LOL. Seriously. I am actually even convinced that it does not get any better than that vibrator, and probably others from the line, but most of them were too large for me to use internally.
I love Vitality so much! I even used it tonight on our mini road trip and guess what? That sucker has been charged ONE time, which was when I first got it and I've used it so many times that I couldn't count. I used it for an hour alone tonight. From the time we left in the vehicle to the time we pulled into the driveway, and even about 3 minutes after we pulled in. It's the best vibrations I have ever felt. No toy gets me off quicker than Vitality. It's also best in terms of charge. Noa is a luxury vibrator and it will totally die on me in 25 minutes. Vitality has hours and hours before that ever happens.
I have some advice: if you have any specific preferences at all when it comes to toys, never rely on price tag. When they're categorized as "luxury" never assume they really are. Be careful.
For some reason, I see people who "love" every single luxury toy they get and review. They claim every luxury toy they own is "the best." I can't get much use out of reviews like that. I am a little more.. objective. Also, I am going to be picky if I'm spending more than $70 on it. I'm going to expect it to get me off and good!
Back to Noa. I love and hate that toy. It's beautiful. The silicone is the best I've used, even slightly better than Vitality. The toy is perfectly soft, flexible -- the design is just perfection for my body. But the vibrations and shitty battery life makes it not worth any more than $40 bucks to me. I hated that. So no, price tag does not mean better.
12/15/2012
Quote:
Oh thanks for this response. I'm already fairly picky on where and how I spend my money, so this extra information on luxury vibrators really helps me.
Originally posted by
K101
I have a few luxury vibes and no, price is NOT what you go buy. Not me anyways, ever. This is because I've bought very expensive "luxury" vibrators that well, to just be honest, sucked ass. For instance, Zini Deux. Worst luxury vibe
...
more
I have a few luxury vibes and no, price is NOT what you go buy. Not me anyways, ever. This is because I've bought very expensive "luxury" vibrators that well, to just be honest, sucked ass. For instance, Zini Deux. Worst luxury vibe ever! Great concept, cheap design, cheaper vibrations, hard material = useless. Even if the company would've spent a wee-bit more on the material and made it squishy silicone, that'd have made a huge difference, but they went the cheap route. In reality, Deux is a $40 quality vibrator, and I would not even pay that.
Now, I have had luxury vibrators that were worth it. For instance Vitality. That is the absolute best vibrator that I've had ever laid... cooter on? LOL. Seriously. I am actually even convinced that it does not get any better than that vibrator, and probably others from the line, but most of them were too large for me to use internally.
I love Vitality so much! I even used it tonight on our mini road trip and guess what? That sucker has been charged ONE time, which was when I first got it and I've used it so many times that I couldn't count. I used it for an hour alone tonight. From the time we left in the vehicle to the time we pulled into the driveway, and even about 3 minutes after we pulled in. It's the best vibrations I have ever felt. No toy gets me off quicker than Vitality. It's also best in terms of charge. Noa is a luxury vibrator and it will totally die on me in 25 minutes. Vitality has hours and hours before that ever happens.
I have some advice: if you have any specific preferences at all when it comes to toys, never rely on price tag. When they're categorized as "luxury" never assume they really are. Be careful.
For some reason, I see people who "love" every single luxury toy they get and review. They claim every luxury toy they own is "the best." I can't get much use out of reviews like that. I am a little more.. objective. Also, I am going to be picky if I'm spending more than $70 on it. I'm going to expect it to get me off and good!
Back to Noa. I love and hate that toy. It's beautiful. The silicone is the best I've used, even slightly better than Vitality. The toy is perfectly soft, flexible -- the design is just perfection for my body. But the vibrations and shitty battery life makes it not worth any more than $40 bucks to me. I hated that. So no, price tag does not mean better. less
Now, I have had luxury vibrators that were worth it. For instance Vitality. That is the absolute best vibrator that I've had ever laid... cooter on? LOL. Seriously. I am actually even convinced that it does not get any better than that vibrator, and probably others from the line, but most of them were too large for me to use internally.
I love Vitality so much! I even used it tonight on our mini road trip and guess what? That sucker has been charged ONE time, which was when I first got it and I've used it so many times that I couldn't count. I used it for an hour alone tonight. From the time we left in the vehicle to the time we pulled into the driveway, and even about 3 minutes after we pulled in. It's the best vibrations I have ever felt. No toy gets me off quicker than Vitality. It's also best in terms of charge. Noa is a luxury vibrator and it will totally die on me in 25 minutes. Vitality has hours and hours before that ever happens.
I have some advice: if you have any specific preferences at all when it comes to toys, never rely on price tag. When they're categorized as "luxury" never assume they really are. Be careful.
For some reason, I see people who "love" every single luxury toy they get and review. They claim every luxury toy they own is "the best." I can't get much use out of reviews like that. I am a little more.. objective. Also, I am going to be picky if I'm spending more than $70 on it. I'm going to expect it to get me off and good!
Back to Noa. I love and hate that toy. It's beautiful. The silicone is the best I've used, even slightly better than Vitality. The toy is perfectly soft, flexible -- the design is just perfection for my body. But the vibrations and shitty battery life makes it not worth any more than $40 bucks to me. I hated that. So no, price tag does not mean better. less
The "luxury" title did make me think that all must be good, but at the end of the day it's just a title.
12/15/2012
Bottom line--it is the same as the cheaper vibes. Some will be amazing and will work for you---some you will wish you never laid eyes on.
Luxury is more in the material, motor and rechargeability. You have a one year warranty, cheaper ones you do not have any. (Eden does give you 60 days to return a defective item though!)
Luxury items also tend to have more creative and absolutely gorgeous and practical packaging. A bonus if you love the item--does not matter how pretty or functional if you hate it.
I have quite a few of them and have to admit the motor life is usually much greater than the cheaper. It is also nice not to have to rotate stores for $50-75 worth of batteries every week!
Luxury is more in the material, motor and rechargeability. You have a one year warranty, cheaper ones you do not have any. (Eden does give you 60 days to return a defective item though!)
Luxury items also tend to have more creative and absolutely gorgeous and practical packaging. A bonus if you love the item--does not matter how pretty or functional if you hate it.
I have quite a few of them and have to admit the motor life is usually much greater than the cheaper. It is also nice not to have to rotate stores for $50-75 worth of batteries every week!
12/15/2012
Quote:
I love high end, nice stuff, but always wait for sales. I am a sales junkie.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
12/15/2012
I don't own a luxury vibe yet, but I have a few high-end dildos. I've got the Pure Wand and Fun Factory's Share.
I'm saving up to get the Ina 2, but I think that's the only luxury vibe on my list. The rest are dildos.
I'm saving up to get the Ina 2, but I think that's the only luxury vibe on my list. The rest are dildos.
12/15/2012
Yes, I have a few, though those I have I do not like much. I usually stick to some of the cheeper ones.
12/15/2012
Quote:
too much for me!
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
12/15/2012
I don't have one yet.
12/15/2012
Quote:
not yet
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
12/15/2012
I don't have one yet.
12/16/2012
none at all.. not for lack of wanting one. I would LOVE to add even one.
12/16/2012
I don't own a Jopen, but I have a Zini. It's not as expensive.
12/16/2012
I feel clueless; I don't know what exactly a 'luxury vibrator' is. Would a hitachi magic wand count?
12/16/2012
I wait till it's on sale and has free shipping. I sometimes wait till I can get multiple deals at the same time and just build a dream cart of shopping heaven. Like when the Facebook specials are something I want, you can bundle that plus the free item that comes with every order plus your item on sale plus points. Then it's most likely free shipping by then. Or just do a review on them and get 30% off.
12/16/2012
I have a Jopen Vanity 12 and a Lelo Ina.
12/16/2012
Yes, Lelo toys
12/28/2012
Yep. I have Lelo Siri, Picobong Moka, and Fun Factory Yooo.
12/28/2012
Always on sale. And higher price usually, although not always, means a better toy. I think it's important to evaluate a toy based on its merits before buying it, and the reviews here on Eden help so much. I love it when there is an unexpectedly wonderful inexpensive toy.
12/28/2012
I don't have any non-luxury vibrators--just LELO, Je Joue, Leaf, Zini...
12/29/2012
I have a few
01/17/2013
One day I hope to have some!
03/20/2013
I have the Stronic Eins, however this is my only one (yet)
05/21/2013
I have one that I am in no way impressed by. I look forward to giving other luxury vibes a shot, though. At this point I'm more into high quality dildos. When I'm done obtaining the main ones on that list, I'll move over to high quality vibes.
05/27/2013
I have a few that I would consider to be luxury vibrators.
05/27/2013
Not any yet, hope to some day.
05/27/2013
Yes, I have a couple.
05/29/2013
Not yet but will soon.
05/29/2013
I have so many I am getting rid of them!
05/30/2013
Quote:
Not really. We have one that is around a hundred but its not in the Luxury group.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
05/30/2013
Have a Jopen and the Stronic Drei. Jopen was full price while the Drei was a buyout from EF.(Thank you EF).
However just got a $20+ EdenFantasy Bendable Buddy. It's super powerful. Review on it should be out soon. Not rechargable but luxury like.
However just got a $20+ EdenFantasy Bendable Buddy. It's super powerful. Review on it should be out soon. Not rechargable but luxury like.
10/12/2014
I do NOT have a luxury vibrator ... yet. I'm still researching. If I find one I want bad enough I'm not opposed to paying full retail for it. I would prefer sale or some form of discount. Again, if I find one I REALLY want then I will fork over the moolah for it no problem.
11/26/2014
Charisma
I've bought so many luxury vibrators at a large discount. That is the only way for me, I can't stand cheap toys. They never work for me
02/20/2015
Oh my, very high tech.
10/14/2015
Quote:
I have some, and there are several I would love to have. Unfortunately, their price tends to keep me away unless they're on a very nice sale or I want to splurge on something nice for myself.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Do you have a Luxury Vibrator?
06/01/2016
Quote:
I kind of got a few of my recent luxury purchases as a splurge/sale combo and sold it to myself as a birthday gift to me and my girlfriend as we both had birthdays last month. If I do it for xmas, definitely won't be a gift I wrap and give her when we're celebrating with family
Originally posted by
Lvstoplay
I have some, and there are several I would love to have. Unfortunately, their price tends to keep me away unless they're on a very nice sale or I want to splurge on something nice for myself.
06/01/2016
sure
11/18/2016
Total posts: 56
Unique posters: 54
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
12/14/2012
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
I always wait for a sale.
12/14/2012
sale or a storewide coupon
12/14/2012
Usually wait for a sale
12/14/2012
I got it on sale.
12/14/2012
Definitely on sale!
12/14/2012
I usually wait for sales. sales bring a bit of mystery and exploration
- love it!
- love it!
12/14/2012
On sale, always
12/14/2012
If it's something I *have* to have immediately then I will buy it right away. That doesn't happen too often though so I try to wait for a sale.
12/14/2012
Sale or lots of points.
12/14/2012
When I buy mine, it'll be with EdenPoints and/or discounts!
12/14/2012
I bought each of them on sale
12/14/2012
My luxury vibes I got on sale or have done as a buyout assignment
12/14/2012
I bought mine while it was on sale!
12/14/2012
usually on sale.
12/14/2012
It's always more fun to snag a bargain.
12/14/2012
I bought my first one full price, but my second on sale.
12/14/2012
I always wait for a sale regardless of what I'm buying! I don't think i've paid full price for anything other than groceries in years, just on principle.
12/14/2012
I always wait for a sale. I want things, but not so badly I want to waste money.
I'm willing to use coupons, too, though.
I'm willing to use coupons, too, though.
12/15/2012
Sale! I really only buy luxury things on sale.
12/15/2012
Quote:
I waited.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
12/15/2012
sale!!
12/15/2012
I always buy on sale.
12/15/2012
I don't really wait for sales. If I want it now, I do a buyout.
12/15/2012
Sale!
12/15/2012
One was on sale, the other wasnt.
I have enough toys now that I can easily wait out a sale.
I have enough toys now that I can easily wait out a sale.
12/15/2012
I did buy a steel dildo, but it was marked down from 200 to 70. Does that count?
12/15/2012
I add things to my cart and tinker with my cart for a week or so until everything is at the perfect price and i feel like I have a bunch of good deals linked together. I always like to wait till I order a free product or a buy out product because then I can combine the shipping.
12/16/2012
I always wait for a sale, myself. I can always do things the manual way or with what I have, a new play-thing is not something I "need".
12/16/2012
Quote:
I wait for sales. And try and work on my points too.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
12/28/2012
I definitely wait for sales, otherwise there's always some sort of coupon code. I think everything I've ever bought off EF was on sale.
12/28/2012
I try to wait for a sale.
12/28/2012
Depends how many points I have! And how bad i've got the itch...
12/28/2012
buy on sale
01/17/2013
Depends on points, but usually wait for a sale...that way I can get more items with it.
01/17/2013
Sale, I can't afford full price usually. I will try to use a 15% off coupon for a user if there is no current coupon codes rolling around.
01/17/2013
Both...while I love a sale, I've bought a few full price.
05/21/2013
I always wait for a sale.
05/21/2013
I try to wait for a sale, but i'm also pretty impatient so things don't always work out that way.
05/23/2013
I took a shot in the dark by buying it on sale. I think that if I were to buy another high quality vibe, I would buy it on sale. I prefer to buy all of my toys that way.
05/27/2013
It depends. I've purchased some of my luxury vibes at full price -- for instance, I purchased a second Uma when my first Uma broke, at full price, because I knew that I enjoyed Uma.
For the most part, though, I usually wait for a sale.
For the most part, though, I usually wait for a sale.
05/27/2013
I've purchased a couple primarily because they were on sale. It's hard to pass up a Lelo at 40% off.
05/27/2013
Never had luxury but I always wait for sales anyways, or use the buyout method.
05/27/2013
I usually wait for a sale.
05/29/2013
Full price and on sale or using the buy out option.
05/30/2013
Quote:
I rarely buy anything that is not on sale.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
05/30/2013
Quote:
Price is the deal maker or deal breaker for me on EVERYTHING
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
10/12/2014
Quote:
Most of the time on sale. But i have bought a few things for special occasions , like vacation.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
11/20/2014
I buy my full price items on Sale. Why pay more?
11/25/2014
Why pay fool price when a sale is usually available?
11/25/2014
Quote:
I totally wait for sales.. so I can try them all of course.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
05/19/2015
Quote:
Definitely wait for it to go on sale
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
05/27/2015
Quote:
I will wait for a nice sale or coupon. No need to spend more money if I don't have to The more I save....the more I can spend!!
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
05/27/2015
sextoys24*7
Quote:
wow, Great Post!! i am looking for this type of post. thanks for sharing. can u share how much Luxury Vibrator. i m used different type of vibrator, but i am not satisfaction.link
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
04/30/2016
Quote:
Depends on the toy. I always comparison shop, but one or two I've been SO interested in I don't wait for a sale.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Did you wait for the luxury vibrator to go on sale or did you buy it ASAP?
05/26/2016
I'm more likely to buy a toy I've had my eye on when it's on sale; however, there are some that looked so interesting when I saw it that I bought at full price since I didn't want to wait for a sale to try it.
But regardless, I'll always look for coupon codes, hidden sales even if one isn't published as better to save money on a purchase regardless of what it is if you can.
But regardless, I'll always look for coupon codes, hidden sales even if one isn't published as better to save money on a purchase regardless of what it is if you can.
05/30/2016
Total posts: 56
Unique posters: 55
Is it luxury only because of the price, or the brand, or is it something else?
12/14/2012
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
I think materials and quality make it luxurious.
12/14/2012
Materials and design (motor placement, programming, etc.)
12/14/2012
Quote:
I agree
Originally posted by
Gracie
I think materials and quality make it luxurious.
12/14/2012
Price is never what makes the toy, it's exactly what Amazon said... how it's made
12/14/2012
Sometimes. Price is an indicator of the effort and quality gone into making it which is part of what makes it a luxury item.
12/14/2012
Materials and quality make it a luxury item for me.
12/15/2012
Quote:
It's both but mainly the quality and design.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Is it luxury only because of the price, or the brand, or is it something else?
12/15/2012
Materials and quality
12/15/2012
Should be material and quality - and design, design!
And yet often only the price is...
And yet often only the price is...
12/15/2012
Design and materials make it luxury.
12/15/2012
Quality, materials design and price
12/16/2012
I buy the luxury ones when I can because a lot of times the price reflects the research and materials put into it.
12/16/2012
Luxury to me means definitely rechargeable, and a material you can completely sterilize. Also such as classy looking and non-offensive packaging are part of it.
12/16/2012
Quality, design, and rechargeability.
12/18/2012
Materials. Customer Service. Long lasting. And I like that they're rechargeable.
12/28/2012
Material, design and quality! Price does usually reflect this, but not always.
12/28/2012
I find luxury items are due to their better quality, thoughtful design and recharge-able nature. Not 100%, but usually. I try to buy quality, knowing that I'll only need to buy one and done1
12/28/2012
Quote:
This is what I think as well.
Originally posted by
Gracie
I think materials and quality make it luxurious.
12/28/2012
materials and design
01/17/2013
Materials, design, quality, etc.
01/17/2013
What others have said.
01/17/2013
Materials, quality, design, reputation, but these things often result in a higher price.
05/23/2013
I would say the price does throw it up in the luxury bracket. I know that there are a lot of expensive vibes out there that aren't really high quality (and they should be destroyed by sledge hammer) I really hate the one that I have)), and they shouldn't be in the running with the higher priced, high quality ones. I think that higher than $60 throws it up in the lower end of the luxury bracket. From there all types of variables come into play. The material, the design, the company, the longevity, the list goes on. I think it essentially starts with the price, though.
05/27/2013
The materials, design, quality all come in to play.
05/27/2013
Materials, quality, design, and brand usually mean luxury
05/27/2013
Quality, materials, design and price are the main ones.
05/29/2013
They just live up to more wear and tear and use than other vibrators. Plus, many times with luxury toys you get a really warranty.
05/30/2013
Quote:
Function and material is what makes luxury in my book.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Is it luxury only because of the price, or the brand, or is it something else?
05/30/2013
Quote:
No. If you read reviews and the materials they are made of you can still find luxury and pleasure at a decent price. But you get what you pay for most of the time. I purchased a pricey vibrator that do nothing for me and would prefer my cheaper ones before it . But I have a really pricey one that is my best friend. But it really depends on the person and how your body reacts to different size,texture and vibration. It's just different strokes for different folks.
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Is it luxury only because of the price, or the brand, or is it something else?
11/20/2014
Quote:
I think it's the features that make it a luxury O.o
Originally posted by
ARPKasso
Is it luxury only because of the price, or the brand, or is it something else?
05/19/2015
Quote:
Materials are usually noticeably better... like the difference between my cheap silicone toys and my luxury ones (like Lelo toys) are night/day. You pick the toy up and you immediately expect more from it just by the material it's made of. Now this might lead to higher expectations that the toy can't live up to; however, it might be like getting a fancy wine bottle and putting cheap wine in it... has a placebo effect making you enjoy the toy more.
Originally posted by
amazon
Materials and design (motor placement, programming, etc.)
Related to materials the construction is key. Doesn't matter if it has amazing quality materials if they fall apart quickly. But I've found that most luxury toy makers do a great job + tend to back up their toys with warranties. Like Lelo has a 1 year warranty + if it breaks in 10 years they'll give you 50% off a new toy. Backing your toy with this kind of behavior makes spending the money an investment more than a risk since you can expect it to work for a while.
Then I agree the design of luxury toys usually actually puts more thought into the design of the toy than some cheaper toys; however, this isn't always the case. Sometimes toy companies have luxury lines where designs trickle down into cheaper versions over time. But the design usually does a better job taking internal/external body geometry into account with the design. I've had an inexpensive p-spot toy hit all the wrong spots as it didn't seem to be designed for my geometry or have much flexibility in the geometries it worked for.
Also where they put vibrator motors, how the vibrator is powered, etc seems to vary a lot but though I think in a lot of cases this is more successful w/ luxury toys, less expensive toys succeed at this too. I have seen recently that rechargeable long lasting vibrating toys tend to be far pricier and in a lot of cases you are paying for the battery technology more than the toy. But as some reviews of less expensive rechargeable vibrators I've read recently seem to indicate... the cheaper toys might overheat with the draw on the battery these toys put if they aren't well designed. So far none of these problems with the "luxury" toys I've gotten.
Sometimes you don't get what you pay for but when you do it's worth it. Mind you I always seek out coupon codes, sales, etc as better to save money than not, especially when spending so much on a toy that might not pan out.
05/24/2016
I buy luxury vibes on sale. What makes them 'luxury' is the quality. Price really has nothing to do with it. The material that is used, the structure and durability of the toy, and the things that make it unique are what makes a toy 'luxury' to me.
05/30/2016
Quality is what makes it luxury. So much cheap toys out there that don't work as well
07/24/2016
Total posts: 34
Unique posters: 34