Build a Better Eden - Community Planning: July 2012 - Everybody welcome! - Created by Ansley on Jul 02, 2012: EdenFantasys Forum

Ansley

There are many suggestions from last month and some of those are going to be implemented.

This month, if we could focus on suggestions for the mentor program, that would be fantastic.

- What's good, what's not?
- What do you think about the criteria to become a mentor?

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07/02/2012

T&A1987

I was wondering if it's possible to start a new club on eden and if so, what the protocols are.

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07/02/2012

Ansley

Quote:

Originally posted by T&A1987

I was wondering if it's possible to start a new club on eden and if so, what the protocols are.

Send me an email telling me what it is you'd like to do. I handle all club related activities. (stormy@edenfantasys.c om)

Reply

07/02/2012

Kindred

Quote:

Originally posted by Ansley

There are many suggestions from last month and some of those are going to be implemented.

This month, if we could focus on suggestions for the mentor program, that would be fantastic.

- What's good, what's not?
- What do ... more

I made a few suggestions last month so I won't repeat them, but overall the program needs to have more information available regarding the program for both students and mentors alike. For example, the function of a mentor (versus an editor/proofreader) and how to request student assignments. Too many contributors don't understand how the program works.

I'm not sure what the criteria are to become a mentor other than having a rank of 6.0. Unfortunately, rank often is not a reflection of one's ability to write quality reviews or mentor. Rank is affected too much by sheer volume of reviews. Personally, I hate to say it but there are mentors that I feel are not the most qualified when I look at their own reviews. I think the qualifications could stand to be a little stricter.

I also mentioned awhile back that it would be great if we could implement some sort of rating/feedback system so that prospective students have an idea of past students' experiences with that mentor. I'm not sure how to implement this and have the results still be anonymous.

Edit: And I really like the idea of a directed thread each month.

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07/02/2012

Ansley

Quote:

Originally posted by Kindred

I made a few suggestions last month so I won't repeat them, but overall the program needs to have more information available regarding the program for both students and mentors alike. For example, the function of a mentor (versus an ... more

The criteria for a mentor is just that: a rank of 6.0 and a decision made by administration based on known activity or history of a contributor. If you, or anyone else, has encountered questionable reviews from a mentor, please notify either myself or JR about it and we will look into it. I believe as staff we should know who is and is not providing students with their best efforts. We will work with them and see if they are willing to improve their skills, if we see no improvement they will be removed from the program.

- I like the idea of a rating system for mentors, this would help bring things to our attention. It's something the community will need to vote on if/after we get an approval.

- Tutorials: Are definitely in the works. We've been 100% focused on reorganizing the forums and we're going to be able to make a few key changes that should make things a lot easier. Once those changes have been made, we will be able to write up the information on how to find information on programs, but we can't put the cart before the horse just yet.

Edit: It was a spur of the moment decision. I'm glad you like it. I'm happy to take suggestions - sent in PMs - on what we should talk about next month.

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07/02/2012

Kindred

Quote:

Originally posted by Ansley

The criteria for a mentor is just that: a rank of 6.0 and a decision made by administration based on known activity or history of a contributor. If you, or anyone else, has encountered questionable reviews from a mentor, please notify either myself ... more

I'm not sure what you mean by questionable reviews from a mentor. Do you mean student reviews published by a mentor? If so, those are not necessarily a fair way to judge a mentor. Based on experience, students don't always accept a mentor's advice or choose to ignore it. Eventually, a mentor has to publish a review even if they don't think it's necessarily the best it could be. I'm not comfortable bringing attention to a mentor under those circumstances.

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07/02/2012

T&A1987

I have friends who sell toys through their sites like tupperware, I was wondering if eden could do something similar. Like the affiliate program, but a person who joins can be given a cookie cutter site to use (that's customizable) plus sales help and suggestions from experienced members at the site.

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07/02/2012

Ansley

Quote:

Originally posted by Kindred

I'm not sure what you mean by questionable reviews from a mentor. Do you mean student reviews published by a mentor? If so, those are not necessarily a fair way to judge a mentor. Based on experience, students don't always accept a ... more

Ok, so in what ways are you comfortable judging their experience if not by the reviews they publish from students?

In the same vein, how would you give mentors more control over students who do not take their advice?

Reply

07/02/2012

Kindred

Quote:

Originally posted by Ansley

Ok, so in what ways are you comfortable judging their experience if not by the reviews they publish from students?

In the same vein, how would you give mentors more control over students who do not take their advice?

I guess my judgment is based on their own reviews. If they don't consistently write EU reviews themselves, I would question why they are a mentor despite their rank.

I don't think much can be done about students that do not listen to a mentor. My personal feeling is that ultimately the review is still the students product, and as such they have the ultimate say. If I make a few attempts to make suggestions and they are not heeded, I simply inform the student what votes I think it will get before publishing. I judge whether or not a student graduates based on whether or not I think they are capable of writing a Useful review on their own, without my help. Until they successfully convince me of that, I will fail them after the two reviews.

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07/02/2012

wrmbreze

Quote:

Originally posted by Ansley

Ok, so in what ways are you comfortable judging their experience if not by the reviews they publish from students?

In the same vein, how would you give mentors more control over students who do not take their advice?

I think giving the mentors more control over their students---maybe giving the option to fail a student Before 2 reviews are done if they aren't doing the work.

Reply

07/02/2012

Beck

Quote:

Originally posted by Kindred

I made a few suggestions last month so I won't repeat them, but overall the program needs to have more information available regarding the program for both students and mentors alike. For example, the function of a mentor (versus an ... more

"I also mentioned awhile back that it would be great if we could implement some sort of rating/feedback system so that prospective students have an idea of past students' experiences with that mentor. I'm not sure how to implement this and have the results still be anonymous. "

This is a good idea!

I also agree with Kindred. It's not fair to judge mentors by students reviews. Especially when students can edit their reviews to say whatever they want after they are published. We can only make suggestions to students and allow them to make their own decisions. If we don't think they can do it we still have to publish two reviews before we can fail them, so it's unfair to judge us on their work.

It makes more sense to judge us based on our own work. If we can't write reviews ourselves that aren't at least useful, we really shouldn't be teaching others, now should we?

And I too love that this month is focusing on the mentor program. I don't want to repeat myself from last month, but something should be done about students canceling class, going up for upgrades during class, and an option to fail someone as long as the did some work in class (a draft or published review.)

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07/02/2012

Kindred

I wanted to also add that a feedback system would also be to the benefit of the mentor. While I don't always remember, I try to ask each of my students after I graduate them what they liked and what they thought I could improve upon. I'm always looking for any feedback to improve myself as both a reviewer and mentor.

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07/02/2012

Beck

This thread has some good ideas about somethings. I have commented that some of the ideas should be posted here. But I'll leave that choice up to those who came up with the ideas. I just thought I'd link to it.

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07/02/2012

Zombirella

I think you should have to have a certain rank before you can vote people in. I notice that many newly voted in members are the ones voting on the people that are up for review. Now I will say I did get voted in, I didn't get a mentor but I took suggestions to heart and I quickly improved. SO, voting in is fine for some people but I really think you should have to have a certain rank and/or have been an ACTIVE member for some good amount of time here.

I just suggested this because of the recently plagiarized reviews and seeing a review that was less than useful, clicking on it to see they have 5 or more reviews that are the same quality, no tries of improvement and no mentor. I've seen this more than once.

ALSO from my thread:
*A minimum of 4 reviews before applying for the upgrade.

*Blocked from applying if being mentored.

*Voters are either Mentors OR have a rating of 6.0. (or something to that effect)

*If denied the upgrade, the applicant must take classes from a mentor.

----ALSO, Increase the votes for upgrade to 10. That way if there are differing opinions or just lazy voters, the upgrade will still be effective for weeding out the people who need more help.

Reply

07/03/2012

js250

Quote:

Originally posted by Zombirella

I think you should have to have a certain rank before you can vote people in. I notice that many newly voted in members are the ones voting on the people that are up for review. Now I will say I did get voted in, I didn't get a mentor but I took ... more

Hey---I recognize the last half of your post, Zombirella!! I have to say it really threw me for a couple seconds. I seriously thought I must have double posted and did not remember, kind of a spooky feeling, lol!!

Now---back to suggestions and opinions on improving the Mentor program:

1. Why not have two types of mentors?

**Have a Site Mentor that helps newcomers learn the site, how to vote on reviews, programs, forum rules and suggestions, explain point farming and answer all questions the students may have about the site. This could be a three day to one week 'class' and would be good for 200-250 points for the mentor at the end and 100-150 points for the student.

**And the Review Mentor that helps the newcomers get their reviews up to par, explains the getting assignments area after graduation, and what information readers are looking for when they read the reviews.

***(It would be very helpful for us mentors if we could have an area that carries products for student assignments. I have had to make numerous requests lately and has gotten awkward for both my students and I when they continually get shot down. This would streamline the classes and look better for our prospective Advanced Reviewers. I have had comments about it taking so long that they should just give up--too many other people on the site getting all the items. And wondering what it would be like for them on their own.)****

2. Maybe raising the bar on the requirements:

--To be a mentor, you need to reach 6.5 or 7 ranking
--you would have to have 25 reviews minimum published on site
--there would be a set percentage of EU votes vs. lower votes on the reviews (80%?), this leaves a generous amount of slack for those hit by retaliation, point farmers, etc.
--I love the feedback suggestion from Kindred. This would also help the mentors to improve their performance using the check and balance system

3. Implement a mentor of the month contest-this could be a great motivation factor. Especially if the voters had a month to review the mentors work prior to voting. ***(The new thread about the graduations and mentors who have graduated students is a great motivator as well!!)***

4. It would be nice to have a Mentor only area where the mentors could go and discuss issues they have been dealing with, ask for advice from other mentors, vent about problems (and hopefully get some solutions), and pass on the stories of the excellent and above average students that we learn from--great encouragement.

I hope my ideas are somewhat helpful, and maybe combined with other people's ideas, we can help weed out the mentors who are in it for the points.

Reply

07/03/2012

tattedsexy71

Quote:

Originally posted by Ansley

Send me an email telling me what it is you'd like to do. I handle all club related activities. (stormy@edenfantasys.c om)

how would i go about getting into the edenlit club? ive been writing short erotic stories for over 20 years but they are my private collection...lol..i would love to get some critical feedback from them

Reply

07/03/2012

Ansley

There are some really great ideas here and I can't wait to bring them up at our next meeting about the mentor program. Keep the suggestions coming everyone!

Reply

07/03/2012

Ansley

Quote:

Originally posted by tattedsexy71

how would i go about getting into the edenlit club? ive been writing short erotic stories for over 20 years but they are my private collection...lol..i would love to get some critical feedback from them

Eden Lit is undergoing a bit of restructuring, stop by the meeting on Monday, the 9th at 7 PM EST. We're open to all suggestions and ideas.

Reply

07/03/2012

wrmbreze

Quote:

Originally posted by js250

Hey---I recognize the last half of your post, Zombirella!! I have to say it really threw me for a couple seconds. I seriously thought I must have double posted and did not remember, kind of a spooky feeling, lol!!

Now---back to suggestions and ... more

Hey---I recognize the last half of your post, Zombirella!! I have to say it really threw me for a couple seconds. I seriously thought I must have double posted and did not remember, kind of a spooky feeling, lol!!

Now---back to suggestions and opinions on improving the Mentor program:

1. Why not have two types of mentors?

**Have a Site Mentor that helps newcomers learn the site, how to vote on reviews, programs, forum rules and suggestions, explain point farming and answer all questions the students may have about the site. This could be a three day to one week 'class' and would be good for 200-250 points for the mentor at the end and 100-150 points for the student.

**And the Review Mentor that helps the newcomers get their reviews up to par, explains the getting assignments area after graduation, and what information readers are looking for when they read the reviews.

***(It would be very helpful for us mentors if we could have an area that carries products for student assignments. I have had to make numerous requests lately and has gotten awkward for both my students and I when they continually get shot down. This would streamline the classes and look better for our prospective Advanced Reviewers. I have had comments about it taking so long that they should just give up--too many other people on the site getting all the items. And wondering what it would be like for them on their own.)****

2. Maybe raising the bar on the requirements:

--To be a mentor, you need to reach 6.5 or 7 ranking
--you would have to have 25 reviews minimum published on site
--there would be a set percentage of EU votes vs. lower votes on the reviews (80%?), this leaves a generous amount of slack for those hit by retaliation, point farmers, etc.
--I love the feedback suggestion from Kindred. This would also help the mentors to improve their performance using the check and balance system

3. Implement a mentor of the month contest-this could be a great motivation factor. Especially if the voters had a month to review the mentors work prior to voting. ***(The new thread about the graduations and mentors who have graduated students is a great motivator as well!!)***

4. It would be nice to have a Mentor only area where the mentors could go and discuss issues they have been dealing with, ask for advice from other mentors, vent about problems (and hopefully get some solutions), and pass on the stories of the excellent and above average students that we learn from--great encouragement.

I hope my ideas are somewhat helpful, and maybe combined with other people's ideas, we can help weed out the mentors who are in it for the points. less

I like your ideas, I would also like a section for Editors only to discuss any issues they are having.

Reply

07/04/2012

Kindred

I'm concerned that many of the suggestions are tied to rank, in many cases raising the minimum level to qualify. Rank does not necessarily correlate to ability as a reviewer or mentor. As an example, if we raise the mentor requirement to 7.0, that would reduce the current pool of mentors from 142 down to just 42, and that includes members that are not active anymore. I have been reviewing for almost 2 years and I would not qualify. I think we just have to be careful about relying on rank to set the standard since it's not a good gauge.

I also think a Mentors and Editors only area could be useful, but should probably include past editors and inactive mentors. I have not been an active editor for awhile but I know the program quite well and feel I could contribute in a discussion.

Reply

07/04/2012

Beck

Quote:

Originally posted by Kindred

I'm concerned that many of the suggestions are tied to rank, in many cases raising the minimum level to qualify. Rank does not necessarily correlate to ability as a reviewer or mentor. As an example, if we raise the mentor requirement to 7.0, ... more

I agree with what you are saying on rank. Rank is determined by too many different things. Even the number of reviews you write. I've seen people who have written 50+ less then useful reviews with a decent rank. A good rank doesn't mean a good reviewer and a lesser rank doesn't mean a bad reviewer.

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07/04/2012

Antipova

Just popping my head in to say that I'm liking the direction of discussion so far, and echoing Kindred's thoughts about a) rank not being the sole judge of someone's capability, b) possibly having a feedback system for mentors, if a way that it can me done quasi-anonymously can be figured out, and c) that judging a mentor by students' reviews is not fair, because the student is the owner of their own review.

If you were to look at ways to judge mentors' suitability, (AND THIS IS ONLY A BRAINSTORM), I know that I always communicate with my students using the comments field beneath the review, and always the log that's recorded there shows my suggestions, and what my students thought of them. If there are complaints leveled that a mentored review is of poor quality, maybe an admin could read through that log and see whether the mentor attempted to get the student to focus on the 'bare spots'?

Reply

07/04/2012

Antipova

Separate thought:

One of the biggest things that I think could use improvement is the 'selecting a mentor' process. Here's a li'l snapshot (names removed) of what my mentor request list looks like right now :

Dying to have a mentor!
June 04, 2012
Cancelled by system (June 05, 2012)

I would love to be considered to be in your class! I really want to learn more, and you sound perfect for me! x
June 04, 2012
Cancelled by system (June 04, 2012)

Hello! I'm still a little fuzzy on the purpose of a mentor class, but I'd love to learn more, and learn what you have to share. Thank you.
May 31, 2012
Cancelled by system (May 31, 2012)

Could you please explain to me what the mentor program is about?
May 29, 2012
Cancelled by system (June 02, 2012)

And, I'll be honest, I'm not super inclined to answer messages to people when I can tell that they're sent out en masse. I did choose a block of requests here that all had decent grammar, but that's not always the case either. And then I feel bad, because these are all new Edenites who are ready to be shown around---but I am a little bit pressed for time right now in my life. I have had a lot of classes now, and I am more eager and I find myself being a better mentor when I'm learning from my student at the same time they're learning from me. At the least, I prefer mentoring students who have read my blurb (which starts out "I run my classes without form letters"), and who address me in a way that reflects that.

But see, I'm a "higher ranked" contributor, so when I list myself as available, I show up on the first page of mentors. And so all the newbies coming in just put in blanket requests for all the first 10 or so highly-ranked mentors on the list.

And it's a shame, because when I was a brand new mentor (with a rank of 6.0 or whatever), I didn't get a student for months. And I know that when I was new to mentoring, I would have loved to have any student, and I would have had the extra time and effort to give to a student who might not have done the required reading before sending off a request.

So if there was some way to help the newest aspiring students choose the newest mentors, I feel like that pairing would be more advantageous to everybody. And those who read between the lines (or, even just read the lines) could sort themselves, read some reviews, and request mentors who seem like they fit their style.

Self-sorting mechanisms make me happy.

--------

Reply

07/04/2012

Loriandhubby

I would like to see a bit more pushing people to join the mentor program as students. idk how this could be done though.

Also, I thought maybe it would be nice to have mentors for the video review program also.

I love the direction of the dicussion on this thread. HUGS

Reply

07/04/2012

T&A1987

Quote:

Originally posted by js250

Hey---I recognize the last half of your post, Zombirella!! I have to say it really threw me for a couple seconds. I seriously thought I must have double posted and did not remember, kind of a spooky feeling, lol!!

Now---back to suggestions and ... more

Hey---I recognize the last half of your post, Zombirella!! I have to say it really threw me for a couple seconds. I seriously thought I must have double posted and did not remember, kind of a spooky feeling, lol!!

Now---back to suggestions and opinions on improving the Mentor program:

1. Why not have two types of mentors?

**Have a Site Mentor that helps newcomers learn the site, how to vote on reviews, programs, forum rules and suggestions, explain point farming and answer all questions the students may have about the site. This could be a three day to one week 'class' and would be good for 200-250 points for the mentor at the end and 100-150 points for the student.

**And the Review Mentor that helps the newcomers get their reviews up to par, explains the getting assignments area after graduation, and what information readers are looking for when they read the reviews.

***(It would be very helpful for us mentors if we could have an area that carries products for student assignments. I have had to make numerous requests lately and has gotten awkward for both my students and I when they continually get shot down. This would streamline the classes and look better for our prospective Advanced Reviewers. I have had comments about it taking so long that they should just give up--too many other people on the site getting all the items. And wondering what it would be like for them on their own.)****

2. Maybe raising the bar on the requirements:

--To be a mentor, you need to reach 6.5 or 7 ranking
--you would have to have 25 reviews minimum published on site
--there would be a set percentage of EU votes vs. lower votes on the reviews (80%?), this leaves a generous amount of slack for those hit by retaliation, point farmers, etc.
--I love the feedback suggestion from Kindred. This would also help the mentors to improve their performance using the check and balance system

3. Implement a mentor of the month contest-this could be a great motivation factor. Especially if the voters had a month to review the mentors work prior to voting. ***(The new thread about the graduations and mentors who have graduated students is a great motivator as well!!)***

4. It would be nice to have a Mentor only area where the mentors could go and discuss issues they have been dealing with, ask for advice from other mentors, vent about problems (and hopefully get some solutions), and pass on the stories of the excellent and above average students that we learn from--great encouragement.

I hope my ideas are somewhat helpful, and maybe combined with other people's ideas, we can help weed out the mentors who are in it for the points. less

I like the idea, although the problem with your first suggestion is that it would add to the bureaucracy of the site, probably not something desired by those running the site. The question though is whether or not these problems could be fixed without increasing the bureaucracy.

Reply

07/04/2012

ghalik

And now for something new...

It would be awesome to see either on the product page or on the list of reviews page a bit of info about how many people "still like it" or "like it more now" or "still don't like it," etc. There are a lot of reviews that would change in star rating if that were possible, but by the time the follow up happens the follow up info isn't really incorporated into the overall reviewers' rating.

Does that make sense? My brain is so dead today; apologies for lacking in coherence.

Reply

07/04/2012

T&A1987

for the mentor program, what about a qualifier test? it could be multiple choice, like the personality tests retail stores have for applicants, essay,or perhaps a mix. It would test knowledge of toys, materials, cleaning methods, along with writing and editing skills and people skills. It an be time and there are special browsers that are available so people can't check the answers online. This way, people are scored more on their skills and less on how many reviews they've written.

Reply

07/04/2012

T&A1987

Quote:

Originally posted by Loriandhubby

I would like to see a bit more pushing people to join the mentor program as students. idk how this could be done though.

Also, I thought maybe it would be nice to have mentors for the video review program also.

I love the direction of ... more

another issue is whether there would be enough mentors if there were a sudden surge of new students.

Reply

07/04/2012

wrmbreze

I also would like to see a way to sort items through price, without having to pick specific categories. For example, say I want to throw a little get together and I want to have grab bags. I would love to have a variety of things 5 dollars or less. As it stands right now, I have to go through each category and then sort by lowest price.

Just a suggestion..

Reply

07/04/2012

#BuildaBetterEden - Community Planning: July 2012 - Everybody welcome!